back to article Windows Phone: Just as well Microsoft bought an Android maker, RIGHT?

If you believe those who are less than impressed by "Nokiadroid" offerings, Nokia's Android phones are an embarrassment for their new owner. Jokers have quipped that whenever Microsoft's Windows Phone chief Joe Belfiore is asked about it, he reacts like a teenager whose divorced dad has been seen dating a young stripper. But …

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  1. Joseph Haig

    Microsoft Linux

    This (ancient) website was meant as a parody, right? http://www.mslinux.org

    1. AndrueC Silver badge
      Stop

      Re: Microsoft Linux

      Nah. The parody was Xenix. That was one of the xIX platforms I helped target back in the late 80s. The infamous SCO Unix was another and the last member of the trifecta was IBM AIX. Interesting to see that of the three only AIX is still going.

      I'd like to say 'Ah, happy days'.

      But I can't.

      1. Richard Plinston

        Re: Microsoft Linux

        > ... Xenix. That was one of the xIX platforms I helped target back in the late 80s. The infamous SCO Unix was another and the last member of the trifecta was IBM AIX.

        No. SCO 'Unix' was not 'another .. of the trifecta'. Microsoft sold Xenix to SCO who eventually renamed it SCO OpenServer when they updated it to a later release of AT&T.

        There was Unixware which was developed by USL and Novell. SCO eventually bought this too and then sold the lot to Caldera who renamed themselves 'The SCO Group' to confuse people (and become infamous).

        1. AndrueC Silver badge
          Thumb Up

          Re: Microsoft Linux

          No. SCO 'Unix' was not 'another .. of the trifecta'. Microsoft sold Xenix to SCO who eventually renamed it SCO OpenServer when they updated it to a later release of AT&T

          Oh, didn't realise that. Perhaps we were just targeting two versions then? It was such a long, long time ago and I were only a wee nipper back then. First and last time I worked on xIX, next job was DOS and Win16 and that was that :)

        2. Nigel Whitfield.

          Re: Microsoft Linux

          There was also another alternative - Interactive UNIX; I think that ended up gobbled up by Sun somehow.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Microsoft Linux

        Ahh SCO… the only OS I know that requires you to re-link the kernel to change an IP address.

        At least that's the case with OpenServer 5. I know of one company that still runs it. We've just helped them replace their main servers with Ubuntu 12.04, and one by one they're slowly swapping out their old SCO boxes for Linux ones.

        The modem links are getting more reliable as a result. (SCO's serial driver is a bit flakey with more modern hardware and frequently dropped data.)

      3. Paul J Turner

        Re: Microsoft Linux

        Don't forget Choherent which avoided '...IX' naming entirely. I mad several production systems for TNT using that! - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coherent_%28operating_system%29

  2. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    No such luck

    Microsoft will do what they always do, support a system/product against their wishes with such piss poor-support that, rather than inviting the customer to 'upgrade' to a Microsoft product, (s)he will simply pass onto something better.

    Sure the new X range is cheap, but it would take a full commitment on the part of Microsoft to support and enhance it, otherwise the next wave of hardware from the other manufacturers will simply shoot past them.

    Given the proven track record of WP updates/improvements over the past three years, and their inexperience running a phone company of the size of Nokia, I seriously doubt that they'll be able to keep the Android range alive.

    In fact, internally, it'll prove that there's no money to be made pursuing this "strategy" and they'll focus on WP exclusively because eff you that's why

    1. DrXym

      Re: No such luck

      The usual modus is to shove out a crappy product with little support, let it die a death in the market and then proclaim they're killing it because nobody was interested in it.

      It happened with Internet Explorer for Unix and Services for Unix. Two flawed but potentially useful bits of software which they sent out to die.

      I expect the Nokia X will suffer the same fate but it depends if actually sells or not. By bet is "not" because Nokia decided to fork Android without any of the Google bits which makes it part of the wider ecosystem.

    2. Richard Plinston

      Re: No such luck

      > Given the proven track record of WP updates/improvements over the past three years,

      The 'proven track record' from MS in mobile is dumping products and replacing them with incompatible ones. Windows Mobile 6.x was dumped, Kin was dumped, Windows Phone 7 was dumped with no upgrade to WP8 and no compatibility. Only now they are replacing the development with one that is almost compatible with Windows RT and 'Metro' on Win8.

      > it'll prove that there's no money to be made pursuing this "strategy"

      They have said that they may not charge for WP licences, though it seems to be for a limited time and specific markets. That won't make them money either. The 'strategy' is to lock the users into MS services even if that means selling at a loss (which Nokia has been doing for the last few years).

  3. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    What is Windows Phone market?

    Moto G is better at the entry level

    There are a hundred better Android phones in the mid and high end.

    Windows Phone is still as dead as it's always been, the app store is mostly barren aside from the usual fart apps, and the OS and phones still don't offer what consumers come to expect from a smartphone.

    Above all, it's Microsoft, who have an abysmal history with hardware, privacy and dodgy dealings.

    1. Gene Cash Silver badge

      Re: What is Windows Phone market?

      As opposed to Google, who have an abysmal history with privacy and dodgy dealings?

      They **ALL** suck.

      Actually, Microsoft's hardware has been some of their best products. And I'm a Moto G owner myself.

      1. Aoyagi Aichou

        Re: What is Windows Phone market?

        >They **ALL** suck.

        Thank you for saying that. I'm still waiting for a proper replacement for my 808, which I still use after suffering through months of WP8 and while Symbian is not exactly flawless, it's far from being as obnoxious as the rest.

      2. Charlie Clark Silver badge
        FAIL

        Re: What is Windows Phone market?

        As opposed to Google, who have an abysmal history with privacy and dodgy dealings?

        So Microsoft is currently the champion of our rights? When did that happen because I must have missed it. Secure boot, DRM, etc. And, of course, Bing, Maps, etc. don't phone home to tell Microsoft what the users are doing,

        Besides if you don't like the security settings on Android, stick on Cyanogenmod which allows you to manage permissions per app including disabling them by default.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: What is Windows Phone market?

      I have 2x phones:

      Personal: Moto G (unlocked not on contract)

      Work: Nokia Lumia 625

      I find them much of a muchness in terms of every day usability.

      The Windows Phone start screen after a little getting used to is actually quite nice.

      Camera is about the same.

      Reliability the Nokia wins, not had to reboot it yet, and not had any app crashes, unlike the Moto G since upgrading to KitKat where it now goes through battery quicker and apps regularly crash and have to be restarted.

      Battery Life the Moto G wins

      App availability of course the Moto G wins, but to be honest I don't use more than 3 or 4 apps anyway.

      Be interesting to see what Windows Phone 8.1 is like, but to be honest your comments about Windows Phone don't actually seem correct based upon my experience.

      (Oh and Microsoft hardware has a history of being very good, their keyboards and mice are top rate in my experience. If you start introducing the XBox then I refer you to all the complaints about the PS3 and PS4 reliability as well as the complaints about XBox reliability)

      In terms of privacy and dodgy dealings, I'd say that Google is a far bigger problem here than Microsoft - or did you not notice the "don't be evil" disappeared a while ago when they realised they could make more money being evil!

      1. Andrew Orlowski (Written by Reg staff)

        Re: What is Windows Phone market?

        That's a fair summary.

        Yes, the Google subsidy that makes the Moto G cheap is the value of your privacy. Most people don't care about privacy. Discuss.

        1. Tom 35

          Re: What is Windows Phone market?

          I don't believe Microsoft want to help protect your privacy for a second. They are just not as good as google when it comes to collecting and selling your info, yet.

          I used to use Bing to find official support sites as you didn't get as much crap as Google. No more, now it's even worse when you try a simple search for a make and model of something.

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: What is Windows Phone market?

          Google are much more transparent on how they use your data and give you migrating and proper deletion options. Microsoft don't...

          No brainer. Google give you a lot and it's very clear what the deal is. Microsoft are just devious scumbags use your data anyway, obfuscate what they do with a complicated privacy policy and STILL charge you for things Google give you for free.

          If you think Microsoft are any more ethical than Google , think again. You have been conned by the press into believing that. I wonder how many people for example even know Microsoft have a street view of their own, driving around towns WiFi slurping.... not many as the press don't want to talk about it for some reason. Go figure...

  4. Semtex451

    "reacts like a teenager whose divorced dad has been seen dating a young stripper"

    Perfect.

    1. BigG
      Coat

      A young stripper called Fernando

      That is all

  5. Longrod_von_Hugendong
    Facepalm

    The entire enterprise...

    is the worlds largest face palm fail moment, M$ knows nothing about mobile devices, nor has it learnt after getting its fingers burnt (Hello Zune)

    Nokia, market leader in mobiles / smart phones manage to flush it all away by basically having no clue what so ever what was happening. The only saving grace is Nokia hardware is (was) pretty good. Well, was until about 12 months ago. Have you seen the screen burn in on demo Nokias? WTF is happening there.

    This will go on for about 18 months or so, until M$ dumps the whole lot, and Nokia just builds some good Android hand sets, it would have more than a chance to rival Samsung et al, like it *should have done 2 years ago*

    M$ would have been better trying to buy RIM, they at least have some competent people, although the management have managed to mixed up their aftershave with the way the wind is blowing. Maybe a realty fist in the face could bring them back. Windows phone is currently an also ran, and will stay that way unless Apple and Andriod do a Nokia, which probably won't happen certainly not in the next 2 - 4 years.

  6. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    "reacts like a teenager whose divorced dad has been seen dating a young stripper."

    For those of us not versed in divorces, teenagers, or strippers, it would be useful if you could expand a bit this description so that we can form ourselves a mental picture of how a teenager behaves when his/her divorced dad starts dating a stripper.

    I mean, divorced people? Yes. Teenagers? Yes. Combining the two? Check. Strippers? Not so much. Dating strippers? Nope. This is The Register, you know.

    1. Simon Harris

      Re: "reacts like a teenager whose divorced dad has been seen dating a young stripper."

      Maybe a Playmobil re-enactment of the divorcee/stripper/teenager combo would help here.

      1. Nick Ryan Silver badge

        Re: "reacts like a teenager whose divorced dad has been seen dating a young stripper."

        I think we need a "I think this would be better demonstrated using playmobil figures" icon... :)

  7. Paul Shirley

    android hackers v MS - wonder who'll win?

    It's going to be fun watching the battle between hackers and MS to keep Google apps off these devices. The most common thing heard from buyers of cheap Chinese Android is 'how do I install Google Market/Play'. You can sell devices without Google but it much harder making them actually use alternatives when the physical device is in their hands.

    MS would be wise to not rely on driving use of 2nd rated services like Bing, or high data/high cost use on whatever today's name for their cloud is. Make Office work better on their devices and maybe they have a chance.

  8. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    I actually like Windows phone

    Compared to Android, it's crisp, and tidy. Shame about the lack of apps.

    1. 0laf
      Alert

      Re: I actually like Windows phone

      Ummm, [shuffles feet], [looks a bit embaressed]....

      I quite like my Nokia 920 Windows 8 Phone too.

      Fast well made, cheap and does what I need it to do very well.

      Yes the app store is a bit thin but most of what you need is there just minus the 500k of garbage that's in the play store too.

      It's a very good phone, camera and sat nav. But maybe not the 'lifestyle device' that people expect with Apple and Samsung.

      Strangely I've come to the conclusion lately that I probably trust MS more with my data than Google or Apple. I spoke to someone very well versed in security/IA at spooky high levels and he agreed (although he was sticking with his Blackberry).

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: I actually like Windows phone

      Guessing you picked the wrong Android phone then. My Nexus 5 is crisp, tidy uber-responsive, great batter life, decent camera, and tonnes of apps.

      Most of all, nobody will laugh at you if you take an Android or an iphone out your pocket....

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        @AC

        Most of all, nobody will laugh at you if you take an Android or an iphone out your pocket....

        Sorry, I was talking about serious work issues, not being with your mates down the pub.

      2. cambsukguy

        Re: I actually like Windows phone

        Except a Nexus 5 is 400 dollars (in the US), the 920 can be had for $200 equivalent here (Tesco).

        The Nexus 5 is 5 inches, bigger and possibly unwieldy for some looking for smaller (like me).

        The camera may be comparable but the 920 is hard to actually beat, I imagine the Nexus 5 has OIS in software, like iPhones, not a patch on the Nokia tech.

        Being a large phone perhaps the battery life is good - the battery is only 15% larger capacity but perhaps the tech uses less juice despite having more cores. However, the 920 battery life is very good.

        And, the Nexus 5 has wireless charging, built-in, like the 920.

        All in all, sounds like a good phone, especially if you like, or can tolerate, the bigger screen and more pixels.

        But, it costs twice as much, so I could buy myself and a someone else a 920 for the same money, therefore they may be similar but they cannot be compared.

      3. Robert Grant

        Re: I actually like Windows phone

        That's one of the top, most expensive Android phones. Even the cheapest WP model ($80 off contract?) is crisp, tidy and ultra-responsive. Find an Android phone that cheap that doesn't stutter.

        And as for people laughing at you - what weirdos do you hang around with?

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: I actually like Windows phone

      "Shame about the lack of apps."

      Windows Phone now has over 250,000 apps - not much missing that most people care about anymore. Even BBM is coming soon.

      1. veti Silver badge

        Re: I actually like Windows phone

        Yeah, but of those 250,000 Windows Phone apps, about 240,000 (in round numbers) are dodgy clones of faddish games (Flappy Penguin, anyone?) And about 9000 of the rest are competing versions of basic utilities (e.g. shopping lists) that you have to choose between with no basis for comparison, so the "competition" is purely arbitrary and will be won by whoever has the best packaging.

        I have a Windows phone, and have been quite frustrated by the hunt for any game absorbing enough to be worth getting out to play while sitting at a bus stop or on the toilet. To be clear, what I'm looking for is something like 'Hayday' (available for iOS or Android), which repays long-term investment but allows playing in casual time windows.

    4. ScottK
      WTF?

      Re: I actually like Windows phone

      Why so many downvotes for somebody simply for saying that they like a product? Bizarre.

      1. Nick Ryan Silver badge

        Re: I actually like Windows phone

        Why so many downvotes for somebody simply for saying that they like a product? Bizarre.

        Because this topic is fan-troll bait, including as it does the topics of Windows Phone and Android in one therefore even rational posts are going to get lots of spurious down votes but few counter-arguments.

        The only comment I'd have about the above poster's comparison is that IMHO he's not comparing like-for-like devices, but given the number of devices and combinations of features and devices it's hard to really compare devices objectively.

  9. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Microsoft shoud just bolt on the ability to side load Android applications to Windows Phone - assuming that can be done without compromising the much better security and performance of the Windows Phone OS compared to Android.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      LOL, better security on Windows Phone... How so? Android has very good security infact, each application runs under it's own user account, applications can't steal other applications data, the only inter-process communications are official intents.

      Everyone with a brain knows that the Android security "problem" is a myth that virus companies make a living from selling idiots protection against something that's not real.

      If you shop in the Google Play store, and don't side-load apps from random internet websites (after disabling the huge malware warning that Google present you), then you are just fine.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        "LOL, better security on Windows Phone... How so?"

        Zero known vulnerabilities on Windows Phone 8. Dozens on Android.

        Windows Phone is secure enough out of the box to meet US military security requirements. Android required bolt ons like Knox.

        Windows Phone uses relatively secure application platform languages like subsets of .Net - whereas Android uses the colander that is Java.

        Windows Phone is based on the Windows kernel - which has had ~ an order of magnitude fewer security vulnerabilities than the Android Linux based kernel over a similar time period.

        Android has tens of thousands of malware applications - both in the Google Play store and everywhere else. Windows Phone has had zero malware to date.

        Windows Phone is very hard to root, and because of secure boot, it is very hard to make permanent changes to the code even if rooted. Android is easy to root and it is simple to permanently compromise the code once rooted.

        1. Richard Plinston

          > whereas Android uses the colander that is Java.

          No it doesn't. It uses the Dalvik VM - completely different from the Java VMs. Newer versions of Android can use the ART VM which is also not a Java VM.

      2. El Andy

        "If you shop in the Google Play store, and don't side-load apps from random internet websites (after disabling the huge malware warning that Google present you), then you are just fine."

        You are aware that numerous apps in the Google Play store have been found to contain malware, right?

        http://www.pcworld.com/article/2099421/report-malwareinfected-android-apps-spike-in-the-google-play-store.html

        And that is what people mean when they describe Android as having security problems.

    2. Robert Grant

      You can sideload. And you can access direct OS updates through their developer preview app, which is just an easy way round carrier agreements - you don't need to be a developer or pay anything to get the app.

  10. Dazed and Confused

    he reacts like a teenager whose divorced dad has been seen dating a young stripper.

    What you mean like

    Cool Dad, and I thought you were passed it.

    Now, about this pocket money, oh and does Mum know?

  11. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    WP Major Problem

    It's App market is piss poor.

    1. busycoder99

      Re: WP Major Problem

      Major problem? Yes. Only problem? No.

  12. PhilipN Silver badge

    Short Memory Syndrome

    MS will keep Android phones going under its aegis most likely at an attractive price point because it suits them to sell as many as possible then begin to ckuf up Android then slowly merge it into the MS ethos.

    Embrace, extend ......

  13. Anonymous Coward
    Joke

    It's OK everyone.

    You don't need to post anything else, I can take it from here. I already know which fanboi flames will be said, trolls fed, horses flogged until they're dead...

    1. Bob Vistakin
      Holmes

      Re: It's OK everyone.

      Correct.

  14. John P

    I hope the Services division takes some advice from the Azure guys here. They make a point of ensuring that Azure SDKs for non-MS languages are at feature parity with (and sometimes ahead of) the .net SDKs. The thinking is exactly that they want people to use Azure,let them do it in whatever language they want.

    If they go the same way with the X models, it could work out very well for them. As stated in the article, it shouldn't matter what device people use, they should all be able to access MS services if they want to. Being cross-platform gets people dependent on and familiar with your services on their current platform, making them more likely to think of MS when their next upgrade comes along.

  15. Anonymous Coward
    Paris Hilton

    Contracts

    Mobile Phone Contracts are so last decade.

    Paris because she doesn't want to be tied down either..... oh, wait, that may not be strictly true.....

  16. Frankee Llonnygog

    In Europe Apple has held steady – buoyed, no doubt, by saturation advertising.

    "Samsung to spend ENTIRE budget of London 2012 OLYMPICS... on ADS"

    http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/11/28/samsung_plans_to_outspend_76_countries_gdp/

  17. Big_Ted
    Meh

    I have an X and its great

    OK so its a Moto X not a Nokia. I do however have a Nokia 920 and a Blackberry Z10 as I can't make my mind up which I want to have as main device and which as backup, I swap round evry week or so and enjoy the differnece, then have to swap again as I am bored with it.

    Now if we could combine the best from each into a single OS then it would rule the world.

    Oh and no I don't like iOS, its too old hat, too small on screen size and too walled garden for me.

    1. Maliciously Crafted Packet

      Re: I have an X and its great

      Funny you mentioned the screen size. Not sure about the X but the Galaxy S5 has a larger screen and still doesn't have as many rows of icons as iPhone 5s. Take a look here.

  18. Tom 35

    Why

    Why would anyone want a crippled android with a not-metro skin and no apps?

    Because it's cheap? That's not going to give them their dream of a big pile of cash like Apple.

    Even if it's a decent phone I expect it will get neglected, then dumped like the Zune.

  19. Flocke Kroes Silver badge

    This time Microsoft did not use their tried and tested strategy

    1) A crap product bundled with every laptop and PC.

    2) Wait for the competition to die.

    3) Argue in court for a decade.

    4) Pay a small fraction of the fine for illegally using a monopoly with one product to get a monopoly with another.

    Anyone would think they do not have a monopoly any more.

    World wide market share figures (here) look much worse Windows Phone than the selection presented in the article.

  20. Charlie Clark Silver badge

    Usual pinch of salt

    IDC are still keeping their monthly market share figures (based on shipments) behind a a paywall but they have been consistently below Kantar's finger in the wind numbers. I posted the figures for Germany from February which had Windows Phone below 5 %. Based on anecdotal evidence when I'm out and about I'd go for 2 - 3 % as I can still keep a count in my head of the people with Lumias.

  21. DaddyHoggy

    I tried to help Nokia/Microsoft out last week. My daughter switched from Android to Windows Phone 8, going from a (well behaved and loyal) HTC Desire S to a Nokia Lumia 620.

    After a day of faffing setting the thing up (like not really understanding how the whole Parental Control thing worked - because the MS account I thought I'd tied to the phone thought I was 12 and not 42 for historical reasons - I was confused as to why I needed to ask my parent to give me permission to give my daughter permission to download Windows Apps... However, I digress...) my daughter got five days use out of the 620 before it bricked itself. (What it actually did was freeze completely, not even responding to the physical on/off button, after 20 minutes of cursing at frozen phone I gave up and removed the battery. On replacing the battery, nothing happened. Plugging it into the charger, give me a red bar battery indicator and nothing else. A day of charging and still nothing. Nokia (via Twitter) suggested their Software Recovery Tool, but the SRT and indeed Windows 7 or 8 refused to acknowledge the phone was plugged in via USB other than to tell me that the device had been disconnected (without it seemingly "connecting" to start with).

    So, the phone's going back to Amazon who offered a no quibble refund. Unfortunately my daughter still wants a WP8 phone and although I'm hoping the set up will be easier I'm loathe to try another Nokia...

    (Any suggestions for an unlocked Sim-Free, sub-£200 WP8 based on personal experience, gratefully accepted!)

    1. 2Fat2Bald

      There are a few. I think HTC do a Windows Phone X?

      Don't knwo if it's any good, though. I've only seen it in brochures.

  22. 2Fat2Bald

    Microsoft

    MS Aren't stupid. Neither are Apple, Google, Samsung, or anyone else in this field.

    I recall a time when people said "Why have they launched the Xbox??? - Ridiculous!! Preposterous!!! - They know nothing about the Games Console Market and will fail!!!! - How can they hope to challenge Sony???" Which is weird because they'd been saying exactly the same about Sony a few years earlier,except that it was Nintendo and Sega that Sony couldn't challenge... "They make Ghetto Blasters, not Video Games Consoles... And they're on CD!!! - Everyone knows video games consoles use Cartridges!!! - Ridiculous!!!"

    Windows Phone has a naff image because early versions were not so good. Now it's mature it's actually a pretty good O/S. What MS need to give it is a reason for the masses to adopt it (which shouldn't be impossible when then effectively own the desktop...). Okay, Geeks have already made their minds up. but since they represent 1 percent of the population, who cares?

    I Seriously wouldn't bet against Microsoft eventually sorting it out and becoming a major player.

  23. Ken 16 Silver badge
    Alert

    Open Source Symbian?

    If MS really wanted to hit low end Android sales it could open the code base for Symbian, a mature OS with a wide range of existing Apps yet which doesn't have the growth potential to compete with the latest and greatest from the big manufacturers.

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