back to article This changes everything: Microsoft slips WinXP holdouts $100 to buy new Windows 8 PCs

In an attempt to lure people off its 13-year-old Windows XP operating system, Microsoft will pay $100 to XP users who upgrade to a new Windows 8 PC. The promotion, run via the Microsoft Store website, is open to users who ditch their Windows XP systems and buy new machines. The money-off offer applies to PCs costing $699 or …

COMMENTS

This topic is closed for new posts.
  1. Cirdan
    Thumb Down

    Windows 8.1?

    No.

    Just no.

    Wiped 8.1 once on a new $175 laptop to install Linux Mint. Don't need to do it again.

    ...Cirdan...

    1. big_D Silver badge

      Re: Windows 8.1?

      Each to his own. I have it running on all of my machines here. I find it is the best version of Windows I've used - I've been using Windows since 2.0 was released.

      I leave the Windows installed and either dual boot or run Linux in a VM here.

      1. Anonymous Brave Guy
        Facepalm

        Re: Windows 8.1?

        If you had been using Windows since 2.0 you'd know that Windows XP is one of, if not, the best OS straight out of Redmond and nothing has come close right to this day.

        1. big_D Silver badge

          Re: Windows 8.1?

          XP is what drove me to try Linux in 2002. It was a huge pile of doggie dos until SP2 came out, until then Windows 2000 was a better option. Windows 7 was much better than XP and I prefer Windows 8 to Windows 7.

          Next to ME, Windows XP is probably the worst version they released, it was just the only option for so long, that it became popular and is, for many people, the only version of Windows they have ever used.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Windows 8.1?

            >>>>XP is what drove me to try Linux in 2002. It was a huge pile of doggie dos until SP2 came out, until then Windows 2000 was a better option.

            Good comment, people talk about xp like it was a windows utopia, but the initial release was awful and sp1 didn't fix all the issue.

            1. Michael H.F. Wilkinson Silver badge

              Re: Windows 8.1?

              I moved to XP from 2000 after at least SP1 (and dual booted it with SUSE Linux). I manually tweaked security settings (and was fairly paranoid in setting router firewall settings). I found XP useful, but actually prefer Windows 7. For me, Windows 7 is the best version I have used, but then I have little or no experience with the 98, ME, and Vista incarnations (my loss, I know ;-) ).

              Win 8 on a new laptop is much less to my liking and I must still get round to setting up the machine to dual boot with Linux. A single try getting round the effing EFI boot loader failed.

              I will try upgrading one ancient laptop from XP to Win 7 and failing that make it a full Linux machine.

          2. No, I will not fix your computer
            Windows

            Re: Windows 8.1?

            >>XP is what drove me to try Linux in 2002. It was a huge pile of doggie dos until SP2 came out

            Which of course is *exactly* what happened with Vista/Win 7, Vista came out, a POS, SP1 was a huge fire-fight, SP2 actually pretty good (but by then the damage was done), SP3 was "renamed" Windows 7, it's the same code base (even called Windows 6.1 internally, mind you 8 is 6.2 so that probably doesn't mean much now).

            1. Pookietoo
              Linux

              Re: probably doesn't mean much now

              From what I've heard the underlying OS seems to be everything you'd want from a Windows 7 update, it's just the user interface and some of the system management tools that MSFT really messed up.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Windows 8.1?

        >>>> Each to his own. I have it running on all of my machines here. I find it is the best version of Windows I've used - I've been using Windows since 2.0 was released.

        I love it when someone writes something really funny. Nice one :-)

      3. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Windows 8.1?

        I find [Windows 8] is the best version of Windows I've used - I've been using Windows since 2.0 was released

        Yes, I bet using Win8 brings you back to the good old days, eh?

        No bevels, few colours, ...

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Windows 8.1?

      I think it's perfectly named: Wait (w-eight). I won't touch it.

      If MICROSOFT is offering me $ (sorry, £) to upgrade I get very, very, VERY suspicious as it's not exactly known for generosity. This logically means that there is an intention to reclaim that £/$ 100 via higher costs elsewhere. No thanks.

      1. Desidero

        Re: Windows 8.1?

        Well, duh - they've been through PR disasters before, such as Vista - you think they should sit around and do nothing to respond to user complaints? Yes, the $100 is a pretty cheap "take a 2nd look" bribe - why not?

        Microsoft was pretty hot on the upcoming update to 8.1 announced at MobileWorldCongress - while the execution of Win8 was all Ballmered up, in the end I'm still interested to see corrections and new features.

        http://www.techrepublic.com/article/windows-81-update-1-will-arrive-just-in-time-to-woo-windows-xp-holdouts/

        1. Don Jefe

          Re: Windows 8.1?

          I've got no real problem with MS as a whole. Sure, some of their tactics are shitty and some of their products really, really suck. But that's to be expected with any huge company.

          One thing MS is not though, is an innovator. They have had a lot of success in refining concepts and ideas of others and they excel in market segmentation and manipulation management. But innovation? No.

          On the business side of software Microsoft most certainly deserves all the credit for one of their only, truly original concepts. They singlehandedly created, refined and scaled the 'It's supposed to do that' aka the 'That's an Undocumented Feature, not a bug' method of product defense. Prior to that development, talking about how your customer base was comprised of the worlds most talented professionals. The abilities your product gave them to maximize their potential and, without skipping a beat, turn right around and say 'you obviously aren't in that group of elites, dumbass, or you'd know why this feature is so important', is a pretty bold move.

          Truth be told, that strategy only worked because LASIK surgery was still very experimental and contacts were hard, uncomfortable and expensive. Had the 'don't hit people wearing glasses' societal taboo not been in place someone would have knocked Bill Gates right off the stage and into a mosh pit filled with Cheetos dust and damp, untied shoelaces trailing the unique bathroom floor sludge found at IT conferences, and guaranteed to completely befuddle FBI forensics teams sent in to investigate how someone could be mobbed to death and leave absolutely no trace of blood.

          They also deserve a lot of credit for the 'could've cost more' strategy. Although not entirely original, MS scaled it so far that it actually became something else entirely. Historians differ on the exact date, but the release of the 'Other' Kennedy, the one with Mental Health issues and a frontal lobotomy that nobody talks about (aka Windows ME) is universally agreed on as being the 'ignition product'.

          'Windows has more than eleventybillion lines of code. Of course there will be some bugs in there. But look, it uses more than twice as many computer resources than the previous version so you're doubling the amount of work your computer was doing and the price didn't double. We worked very hard to reach those performance milestones and we could have charges you a lot more than we did. You should be thanking us. Have a butterfly sticker'.

          The audacity of those defenses and the matter-of-fact way they were delivered will certainly go down in history as some of the most important developments ever made in commerce. Somewhere, as we speak, the successors to the Gates/Ballmer 'Fuck You' school of PR are out there. Will they come from the world of traditional, proprietary closed source code or the newer, less understood world of OSS where new developments are occurring daily? Time will tell, but those successors will have some very large shoes to fill.

        2. big_D Silver badge

          Re: Windows 8.1? PR disaster

          Vista was a PR disaster? And what was XP? Few people wanted to use it, it was the last of the pre-Internet operating system, released in a time when everybody wanted Internet access. The firewall was diabolical and turned off as standard. Its standard security resembled a sieve.

          That was its huge problem and the reason why it took so long to come out wit Longhorn. Gates had to pull nearly all staff off of working on the next version of Windows and get them on shoring up the leaky dike that was XP, with the secure Computing Initiative.

          It was only after SP2 that it became a credible alternative.

  2. joed

    this sounds like a deal

    599$ (plus tax) is surely the offer that no "cheapskate" holding on to ancient PC would refuse (discarding all other valid reasons to keep existing system). And Windows 8 is just icing on the cake.

    1. Andrew Jones 2

      Re: this sounds like a deal

      Not sure if being sarcastic....

      But how's this for a reason?

      I don't have £600 (because let's face it - any technology related item basically get's the $ sign changed to a £ when it launches here with no actual currency conversion taking place) to spare - and I cannot justify spending half-a-grand replacing a system that works perfectly well and has plenty of life in it yet. Throw in the fact that there are 8 machines running XP Home, XP Pro and XP Media Center - and suddenly that's quite a lot I would have to spend upgrading.

      1. Ken Hagan Gold badge

        Re: this sounds like a deal

        "Not sure if being sarcastic...."

        I'm sure. Definitely sarcastic. You posted in vain.

        1. joed
          Happy

          Re: this sounds like a deal

          I can surely confirm

        2. Jamie Jones Silver badge
          Joke

          Re: this sounds like a deal

          " I'm sure. Definitely sarcastic. You posted in vain."

          Yup. We definitely need(*) an "An American in the room" icon for such occasions!

          /me runs away and hides

          (*) Sorry, just a crappy joke about the stereotypes regarding America/British sarcasm! Don't be angry old chaps. There's plenty of cake left in the queens parlour. Toodle pip, cheerio old fella!

      2. Adrian 4
        Windows

        Re: this sounds like a deal

        You're wrong about the $ to £ conversion.

        I'm pretty sure the $699 will translate to £699, but the $100 discount won't translate to £100.

      3. K
        Thumb Up

        Re: this sounds like a deal

        Andrew, you probably have some reason for running so many systems, and you are right upgrade costs in the UK are silly money. But if you can't afford to keep them upgraded then you run security risks, so its time to consider a new strategy by either

        a) Reduce the number of PCs, the electric savings alone would cover a lot of the XP to Win7 or XP to Win 8.1 upgrade costs.

        b) swap to Linux.

        Just food for thought :)

      4. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: this sounds like a deal

        "because let's face it - any technology related item basically get's the $ sign changed to a £ when it launches here with no actual currency conversion taking place"

        Whilst that's generally how it works, there's some exceptions. Take CoPilot for Android. $7 for the premium US edition. UK and Ireland premium edition is £20.

        Which is a pity, I'd buy CoPilot at the drop of hat, but for that single fact that the thieves are trying to ream me out.

      5. 's water music

        Re: this sounds like a deal

        Not sure if being sarcastic....

        Not sure if being meta-sarcastic...

    2. Primus Secundus Tertius

      Re: this sounds like a deal

      "...icing on the cake ???"

      More like icing on the road, waiting for the unwary to drive over it.

      Yes, I have tried it - the free test version MS released last year. Good hardware recognition BUT how do you properly switch the b#st#rd off? My workaround was to reboot, and hit the off button when the power-up screen appeared.

      1. Michael Habel

        Re: this sounds like a deal

        Wow why didn't I think of that?! I just yanked the lead outta mine to get it to shut off!

        Cause Start -> Shutdown was just to simple to keep huh?

      2. nanchatte

        Re: this sounds like a deal

        Glad I wasn't the only one who kept losing the "off-switch". How can a company with a reputed R&D budget of 10bn make such a basic concept so goddamned protracted?

        1. Pookietoo
          Linux

          Re: the "off-switch"

          You could always use the "shutdown" command, maybe even stick it in a shortcut on the desktop ... oh, yeah - no desktop.

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: this sounds like a deal

      Windows 8 is an insect moving about on the cake.

      It is not the icing. Not by a long shot.

  3. Nathan 13

    $1000 wouldnt be enough

    I have had this misfortune to use a W8 laptop.

    What a total pile of shit. The bluetooth mouse needed to be paired again on every re-boot. The graphics card crashed all the time, the wireless network would keep dropping every few mins, the "shared graphics" was just a shambles, and I could not select the AMD 8000 card to work with my browser or certain applications which insisted on using the inadequate intel HD graphics resulting in piss poor performance.

    All in all I wanted to throw the laptop out of my window!!

    The worst computer experience I have ever had!!

    1. Destroy All Monsters Silver badge
      Trollface

      Re: $1000 wouldnt be enough

      Clearly you need Clippy to give you advice on blood pressure management.

      1. Wensleydale Cheese

        Re: $1000 wouldnt be enough

        "Clearly you need Clippy to give you advice on blood pressure management."

        Clippy was the cause of high blood pressure for a former colleague.

        He would explode with rage when the wretched thing made an appearance.

        1. TheOtherHobbes

          Re: $1000 wouldnt be enough

          Office and Windows - more deadly than booze, fags, and cholesterol. (And bingo.)

    2. Sandtitz Silver badge

      Re: $1000 wouldnt be enough @Nathan

      Sounds like the problem wasn't with the shitty OS but shitty hardware. Was it an Acer...?

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: $1000 wouldnt be enough

      AMD you say ?

      Hmmm never seen a shit AMD/ATI driver in my life.

      Epilogue explanation for Americans:

      The amd driver comment contained a heavy amount of sarcasm and should not be taken literally.

    4. This post has been deleted by its author

      1. Peter2 Silver badge

        Re: Clearly you need Clippy to give you advice on blood pressure management

        To be fair, my reaction to Clippy wasn't quite that bad. I did however immediately kick the user off the computer to completely uninstall it.

    5. Rogue Jedi

      Re: $1000 wouldnt be enough

      $1,000 would be plenty, buy a £600 laptop with Windows 8 pro then ask MS for a key to upgrade it to Windows 7, or put your favorate free OS. An hours work and you would have a free reasionable spec laptop running the OS of your choice (unless it is XP or earlier).

  4. SVV

    They're not paying you $100

    They're basically giving you the OS for free if you buy the hardware through the "Microsoft Store".

    Hands up who'd buy hardware through the Microsoft Store?

    Yep, thought not.

    I wouldn't bet against them giving it away for free in the next 12 months, as they panic and realise that the low opinion of it has become so deeply entrenched that the risk becomes apparent that this may break the chain of Windows (and therefore Office) license revenues that has kept the moolah rolling in for so many years now.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Meh

      Re: They're not paying you $100

      That's a pretty safe bet. It might even work to some degree, but there must be some pretty impressive levels of cognitive dissonance going on in the marketing department when they try to reconcile their apparent certainty that they are 'right' concerning the roadmap for Windows in the face of months of overwhelming evidence (in the form of lack of revenue) that it isn't what customers want.

      Underneath the Modern UI is a decent successor to Windows 7, with a few useful new features and good performance. All that has to happen is for them to provide a 'desktop' service release for Enterprise and Desktop users who need that, preferably with an admission that they were wrong and an undertaking to listen to users in future. I'm doubtful on the first, expecting Hell to experience a sudden cold snap before the second ever comes into play.

      1. Philip Lewis

        Re: They're not paying you $100

        Precisely.

        I would upgrade in a heartbeat to;

        Windows 8 OS with Windows7 UI - best (relatively speaking) of both worlds in a Microsoft universe.

        It astounds me that this option was not the default for the WindowsServer versions (and spare me the "real-men" use headless and CLI bullshit please) and a fully functional option on the consumer versions.

        But hey, I have seen plenty of galactically dumb corporate moves in the IT industry in the past 30+ years, so what's one more amongst "friends"?

    2. 404

      Re: They're not paying you $100

      ok, wouldn't buy any hardware from the Microsoft Store, but ya'll need to stop being ridiculous.

      I've been running Windows 8 since first day on an HP EliteBook 8440p, running Start8 since 45 minutes after install and haven't seen Metro or whatever you want to call that way-too-large start menu since. Boots right into desktop.

      Pay your $4.99, Bada boom, bada bing, Windows 7 desktop with Windows 8 speed.*

      *edited to say: I apologize for the pun. It was not intended. Try again with an Italian mobster accent.

      1. Salts

        Re: They're not paying you $100

        @404

        Pretty much you agree with everyone else, the Desktop is crap, just you would rather pay $4.99 to put it right.

        Many would prefer MS to put it right, everyone that pays for Start8 or the likes, is actually agreeing that there is a problem with Windows 8/8.1. just showing there dissatisfaction in a different way IMHO.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: They're not paying you $100

          Not taking sides but I recently was ask to look at a laptop that had crashed, throwing up an error message. When I got it, it booted up fine. Seemed to have been a one time thing, it recovered on reboot, and the owner panicked.

          I decided to check a few things, just to show that I had done something, and found that it was running windows 8. I was very surprised on this, no metro at all. Straight up windows 7 looking screen. I ask what they were using and they had no idea, came like that. This was a $400 machine, and it ran smooth.

          Point being, yeah, metro sucks, but like others have said, you can run windows 8 without ever seeing the first metro tile from boot up to shutdown.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: They're not paying you $100 -- @taylor

            "Point being, yeah, metro sucks, but like others have said, you can run windows 8 without ever seeing the first metro tile from boot up to shutdown."

            Of course - 8.1 update made that an option.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Facepalm

        Re: They're not paying you $100

        "ok, wouldn't buy any hardware from the Microsoft Store, but ya'll need to stop being ridiculous.

        I've been running Windows 8 since first day on an HP EliteBook 8440p, running Start8 since 45 minutes after install and haven't seen Metro or whatever you want to call that way-too-large start menu since. Boots right into desktop.

        Pay your $4.99, Bada boom, bada bing, Windows 7 desktop with Windows 8 speed.*"

        Spoken like a true consumer. I'm glad you've got something that works for you, bizarre though it is that you're OK with spending the $4.99 you shouldn't have had to spend. However:

        • If you go to a boardroom and plead for $4.99 each to add Start8 to several thousand PCs during a rollout, the answer will be a rather mystified 'no'.
        • If you then say 'how about adding Classic Shell* - it's free!' - the answer from the IT Department will be 'no' because why should we add complexity to our images, and spend man hours of testing on, something that has been and should be in the OS already.
        The Modern UI in the context of Windows Phone is pretty nice. I have a Nokia Lumia, and like it, it's a good phone with an increasingly decent OS. Combining that with the Windows desktop like some kind of binary Frankenstein has had predictable results by way of breaking them both. They want to have their cake and eat it by keeping the desktop market while setting up a walled app garden next to Apple, and they wanted to save money doing so by using one development effort for one single (abortion of a) product. They got called on it by pretty much the entire corporate world and not an insignificant portion of the consumer one, they won't admit they're wrong, and this is the result.

        *I use it when I have to evaluate 8.x - it works acceptably. That's not the point.

        1. 404

          Perspective

          Paying $4.99 for Start8 to get an XP-like interface... you pay more for coffee at Starbucks, vs. continually pissing and moaning about the modern UI over how MS 'shoulda done it'.

          How much is your time worth? $4.99 is a very small price to pay to just get on with it and do my job(s). Maybe I pick my battles differently, maybe I just get tired of the squishy sound beating my head against a wall. Take your pick.

          Good Day!*

          ;)

          *up/down votes-> wasn't me. Too much effort for this subject.

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: They're not paying you $100

      "I wouldn't bet against them giving it away for free in the next 12 months..."

      Then all they'd need to do would be to open-source the code, and enhance it to the level of a good Linux distro - and it would become competitive!

    4. Fred Flintstone Gold badge

      Re: They're not paying you $100

      they panic and realise that the low opinion of it has become so deeply entrenched that the risk becomes apparent that this may break the chain of Windows (and therefore Office) license revenues that has kept the moolah rolling in for so many years now.

      Actually, they are panicking already. The Swiss office of data protection told them to clean up their act of face problems with selling Office 365 in Switzerland. In something that is IMHO totally unprecedented for especially a *LARGE* US company, Microsoft agreed to not only make their contracts subject to Swiss law, but also give clients a choice as to where to host their data. (translated link, original article is German).

  5. Shadow Systems

    Too little, too late.

    XP has been running for the last 13 years on hardware nearly as old.

    Anyone using a copy of XP on an XP era machine knows full good & well that It Works.

    If they've stuck with XP this long, especially after all the media coverage to upgrade, what do you think the chances are of them actually doing it?

    Contrary to popular belief, $500 +tax +shipping isn't an inconsiderable amount of money, especially if you live on a fixed income (Pension, Disability, Minimum Wage, etc).

    So being able to plonk down half a thousand for a brand spanking new computer, when the old one Just Works, is grasping at straws.

    If GrandFather has to choose between refilling his arthritis medication and buying a new computer (especially if the one he's using Just Works), then the computer doesn't get the dosh.

    Anyone whom has lived in a low/fixed income situation for any length of time has learned to Make Do with what you've got, especially if it Just Works.

    Don't like that 19 inch Standard Definition, RCA plug sporting, Rabbit Ears antenna using, no coax connecter, television? Too bad, it works, so you can't afford to toss it out to get a new one.

    Same thing goes with the computer.

    If it's worked for the last 13 years, it's still working now, and you haven't got the cash to upgrade, then you don't upgrade.

    And you want them to upgrade to an operating system that all their friends, family, and their personal (read Unpaid) TechSupport person has told them to avoid like the plague?

    Not for a Hundred, doubtfull for Five Hundred, and "maybe" for a full thousand.

    Essentially, if you *Gave Away* the computer to those whom are still using XP, then *MAYBE* they'd be willing to migrate.

    And those are just the private citizens reluctant to stop using what works.

    Government agencies, financial institutions, merchants' Point of Sale control software, "Advanced" Flight Control Systems (Federal Aviation Administration in the U.S., the equiv in the rest of the world) using XP to keep planes from playing bumper tag in the skies, pharmacies using it to control inventory systems & ordering systems, schools using it because they don't have the budget to upgrade nor the staff to do the job even if they could scrape up the cash, etc etc etc.

    The U.K. is hounding MS to continue support for XP, because they don't want, can't afford, and can't give a good reason to "upgrade" to Win8.

    The hardware still works, the software still works, and nobody wants to throw good money out the window on the off chance they'll be able to use Win8 worth a damn.

    It doesn't matter if I like Win8 or not, it doesn't matter if You like it either, the General Public has spoken, and XP, even if it's ONLY *Down To* a 15% market share, is *STILL* doing better than Win8.

    So what if MS is offering $100 off some crappy, overpriced, Win8 equipped machine?

    They'll spend more than that $100 on retraining to use Win8, buy all new software (Office, their XP software *IF* a newer version exists), and to migrate all their data.

    Unless, of course, the devices they're using with XP can even be supported under Win8.

    That old Konnica DotMatrix printer that's still going strong, prints Just Fine for the needs of it's owner, and requires a Parallel Port to interface, will be a rather amusing project to get working on a current machine.

    "Just buy a new one!"

    Uh huh, so now they have to spend even MORE money to "modernize", only to end up not being able to do what they can currently do Just Fine on their XP machine?

    GrandDad isn't going to shell out nearly a thousand dollars for a new machine, a new printer, a new scanner, a new fax machine, a new copy of Office, fresh copies of $RandomProgram, just because MS whines at them to do so.

    He'll give 'em The Finger, tell 'em to shove off, and keep right on pecking on that original IBM clicky keyboard, connected via DIN plug, smacking his "newfangled" two button mouse, staring at his 15 inch 1024x768 "high resolution" CRT, and transcribing all his memoires in his perfectly functional copy of WordStar2000...

    And you can pry his Lotus Notes 123 out of his cold, dead hands.

    *Snort*

    So Microsoft, you'll have to do better than this.

    There's a perfectly valid reason those "hold outs" are doing it.

    Because the hardware still works, the software still works, they can't afford to upgrade, and everything they've heard in the news, read in the paper, gotten in their email, and been told by their Tech Support GrandKids says Win8 is an absolute pile o' crap.

    If they're already unwilling to upgrade under those conditions, do you REALLY think insulting them with a hundred dollar whine is going to change their minds?

    And all it takes is a single question to derail your "upgrade":

    "Whill this new machine still be running in 13 years like my old one?"

    If the answer isn't a resounding yes (and made in writing), then you'll get laughed at.

    "Why should I buy a new car with all those bells & whistles, when my Volvo stationwagon still runs just fine?

    Sure it's cantankerous on cold mornings, but hell, so am I!"

    If you're LUCKY, they'll get talked into getting a Win7 machine instead, but that STILL opens the can o' worms of having to buy all new software, new hardware, and having someone retrain them to the new UI.

    Because no matter how much of that crack pipe you suck down, the "Ribbon" UI is still a dingleberry infested arse fold, and "Metro" makes the "Ribbon" look *good*.

    *Gags*

    Now if you'll pardon me, I've got an XP machine I'm currently reformatting.

    It's getting Linux, & MS is getting The Finger.

    *GRIN*

    1. jason 7

      Re: Too little, too late.

      Try using a 13 year old install of XP on a 13 year old PC and you'll find that it doesn't work...very well at all.

      Trust me I see them when folks ask me to upgrade them.

      If you think wasting 20 minutes a day waiting 'for something to happen' then by all means but I'm sure most of us here have better things to do.

      1. Paul Crawford Silver badge

        @jason 7

        "Try using a 13 year old install of XP on a 13 year old PC and you'll find that it doesn't work...very well at all."

        It works fine if you have the original configuration - and typically that means no AV and anti-spyware running, and not piles of software that no one really uses but each one starts its own updater on boot-up. If not running well, usually some RAM as an upgrade is enough to restore sanity cheaply.

        However, I think you will find there are two classes of hold-outs where the machine is newer but they stick with XP:

        (1) Folk without the income or desire to spend on a PC, the old "it works fine for me and I hardly use it anyway" brigade. Definitely not El Reg readers.

        (2) Folk who have the budget and support, but are sticking with XP because something they have won't run acceptably on a newer OS. Now you could argue they should simply upgrade the program(s) they use to avoid this, but there could be a whole range of reasons why not:

        2.1) Stupidly expensive to do as it was custom software, etc. (thinking here of gov and IE6 lock-in, for example).

        2.2) Not possible as no newer software exists (e.g. for old hardware, or company went bust, etc)

        2.3) The upgrades change things in ways that will (or could possibly) break something key to their business (e.g. industrial control where it took a lot of time & money to certify the system in the first place).

        All can be sorted with enough money, but it is likely to be WAY more than the cost of a new PC/OS.

        1. Michael Habel

          Re: @jason 7

          It works fine if you have the original configuration - and typically that means no AV and anti-spyware running, and not piles of software that no one really uses but each one starts its own updater on boot-up. If not running well, usually some RAM as an upgrade is enough to restore sanity cheaply.

          This could be said for Windows 7 and, the humble Netbook too. No thanks to MicroSoft, by limiting the RAM to 1GB at Purchase and 2 GB Max! w/no double data Rate capability whats so ever!

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Too little, too late.

        "If you think wasting 20 minutes a day waiting 'for something to happen' then by all means..."

        Could you translate that into English, please?

        1. jason 7

          Re: Too little, too late.

          @Tom

          Then you recently haven't been unlucky enough to have to use a 2001 spec PC running XP for your day to day work.

          I've seen people waiting nearly 30+ seconds for a Excel spreadsheet to open, thinking that's totally normal in 2014. Now repeat many that many over the course of a day.

          Mmm I love the sound of a 40GB Maxtor IDE drive in the morning...

          1. Michael Habel

            Re: Too little, too late.

            Then you recently haven't been unlucky enough to have to use a 2001 spec PC running XP for your day to day work.

            I've seen people waiting nearly 30+ seconds for a Excel spreadsheet to open, thinking that's totally normal in 2014. Now repeat many that many over the course of a day.

            Mmm I love the sound of a 40GB Maxtor IDE drive in the morning...

            When you put it like that... Damn he has a point you guys!

        2. Nuke
          Holmes

          @ Tom WelshRe: Too little, too late.

          Wrote :- " "If you think wasting 20 minutes a day waiting 'for something to happen' then by all means..."

          Could you translate that into English, please?"

          I think he meant his XP box had the svhost bug, although he does not seem to have realised it.

          http://www.neowin.net/news/microsoft-finally-fixes-windows-xp-svchost-bug

        3. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Too little, too late.

          Thanks for all the down votes, but you still haven't provided a translation. In case you thought otherwise, I wasn't mocking you: I simply would like to know what you were trying to say. I haven't been able to guess, although I'm quite good as a rule at loose translation.

      3. willi0000000

        Re: Too little, too late. @ jason 7

        There is more to life than increasing its speed.

        - Mohandas K. Ghandi

      4. Mage Silver badge

        Re: Too little, too late.

        2002 Laptop

        45 seconds boot

        1600 x 1200 ultra sharp reflection free LCD.

        Xp Pro.

        Last re-installed when 6 months old.

        HDD upgraded 6 years ago (partitition Magic on a desktop and adapters to copy existing install.

        High performance SCSI scanner via PCMCIA /PC Card controller

        Firewire still used

        Serial & Parallel still used.

        WiFi upgraded 6 years 11Mbps to 108Mbps

        CD Writer DVD -ROM reader upgraded 6 years ago to DVD/CD R/W

        XP pro based Media PC using 2 x PCI HD Satellite cards, SATA drives, and dual tuner DTT USB. Where do I get a new PC with 6 x PCI slots?

        1 laptop multiboot DOS / Win3.1 / Win98 & Win 2K for things that need it. 1400 x 1050 reflection free LCD.

        All else is various Linux distros

        1. Michael Habel

          Re: Too little, too late.

          XP pro based Media PC using 2 x PCI HD Satellite cards, SATA drives, and dual tuner DTT USB. Where do I get a new PC with 6 x PCI slots?

          First off why aren't you using Linux? VDR, and MythTV beat the living snot outta XP - WMCE.

          Second, you don't....

          Third thankfully Manufactures like L4M have been making PCI-E Cards for the last couple of Years now.

          If your MCEs are only pulling TV, Recording(s), and Movie playback. I'd advise you very highly to give Linux VDR (Video Disc Recorder), a look in. It'll turn your HTPC into a very simplistic STB. Granted you'll lose the Desktop and the crap that came with it. But I never missed it. And in the times when VDR is lacking. (External Media Playback - DVD, CD HD Rips YT etc..), well just fire-up XBMC and that has ya covered.

          Or you could also look into TVHeadend + XBMC for a more goooy GUI. IMHO its not as stable as VDR though. But, when it does work its the most impressive system you'll see.

      5. Nigel 11

        Re: Too little, too late.

        Try using a 13 year old install of XP on a 13 year old PC and you'll find that it doesn't work...very well at all.

        Don't know about 13-year old, but 7-year-old is fine. Just as long as it has enough RAM for modern XP (1Gb minimum, 1.5Gb better).

        Insert XP with SP3 DVD, install

        Crank up Windows Update, install updates, reboot, install more updates, iterate several times until up to date. Tedious, slow, bandwidth-consuming, but it works. If you have a volume license for Office you might also install that, upgrade to Microsoft Update, go around the updating loop a few more times. And install MS Security Essentials if you don't have any other AV to install.

        Once you have an up-to-date virgin XP install the smart thing to do is to sysprep it. Then boot a stand-alone Linux disk such as SystemRescueCD, re-size the boot partition as small as reasonably possible, and generate an image of the used part of the disk. (Alternatively you could use one of the paid-for snake-oil imaging tools for folks who don't understand the previous sentence).

        Make sure you can restore and boot your image onto another PC with a blank disk.

        And now you'll be able to install up-to-final-date XP onto 7-year-old or maybe 13-year-old PCs in half an hour, for the forseeable future ....

        Until Microsoft shuts down their XP activation servers ....

      6. Aaron 10

        Re: Too little, too late.

        That's not correct. Ironically, my elderly neighbors gave me a laptop sitting in their storage for somewhere around 13 years. It still had its initial Windows 98 install alive and working... though McAfee complained that its virus definitions were over 2000 days old.

        I put Windows XP SP 3 on the computer, after putting a dusty 256MB DIMM into the computer's innards, and other than a 5 minute boot time, the computer works fine. I even have 2.5GB free on the 6GB hard drive. Oh, and the 256MB DIMM? Only 128MB of it was recognized. :)

    2. DropBear
      Pint

      Re: Too little, too late.

      I just giggled a bit... my desktop is a fairly recent quad-core doing full-HD while twiddling its thumbs - but the keyboard is indeed connected through a DIN-to-PS2 adaptor: it's the one I got with my first 386DX. Guess if I have a "windows" key on it - now guess if I miss it. Oh, and the XP? It's staying right where it is. And I'm willing to bet anyone here a box of beer it'll stay malware-free too.

    3. keithpeter Silver badge
      Windows

      Re: Too little, too late.

      @Shadow Systems: upvoting simply for impressive length of rant. Be very careful about Grandad examples though. Some of us can remember IBM keyboards coming out of boxes when new.

      @everyone: mad idea for a Saturday morning. Would it be possible to sell a cheap box that hangs off the modem/router, runs a secure free operating system, and provides a remote desktop session into ancient XP box (or anything else) and just runs a Web browser? SO ancient box can run ancient genealogy software/dot matrix printer drivers/brain scanner software whatever and t'Interweb will simply be in what looks like another window?

      I've had the mad idea of trying this with the client being a 'lamp stand' iMac (I think they look lovely) and a substantial Linux box in the cupboard.

      1. willi0000000

        Re: Too little, too late. @ keithpeter

        how about a router mod (or a new router, that i can afford) which will just not pass any internet derived bit thingies to selected connected devices? that way, even if i accidentally (and that's the only way to do it) connect to winhelp in a moment of desperation it can't connect to or download anything. i still want the old XP machine on my LAN but i want it to not see or be seen by the internets.

        i don't worry overmuch about something being passed from my win7 machine to the XP (via the LAN) because it is kept up to date and runs pretty good AVware.

        if i'm totally off-the-wall here, would someone please tell me why and not just downvote?

    4. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Too little, too late.

      I'd just like to point out that in the UK "Grandad" doesn't have to choose between arthritis medicine and a new computer, owing to the wonders of socialised medicine.

      The downside, for some US corporations, is that Government departments sometimes have to object to attempts to inflate their budget for no apparent benefit.

    5. Anonymous Coward
      Windows

      Re: Too little, too late.

      "dingleberry infested arse fold"

      Hehehe...Thanks.... Stored for later use..

      Ahh my vocabulary has increased exponentially since reading el-reg....

    6. J.G.Harston Silver badge

      Re: Too little, too late.

      Exactly! I once had a blazing argument with a PC supplier because they were expecting us to throw away our £15,000 printer just because they were too cheap to put a 15p Centronics port on their machines. That lost them the order.

  6. Trevor_Pott Gold badge

    I wonder how accurate those stats are. I number of XP boxes are hanging around running industrial machinery so they never hit the web. A bunch more have automatic update disabled, lest the AU flaw that pins your CPU all day long bite you. I suspect there are quite a few more XP boxes out there than are officially counted.

    1. Salts

      Psst, you are not supposed to mention that :-)

    2. RobHib
      Thumb Up

      @Trevor_Pott -- Exactly!

      Exactly! We've a stack of XP machines that:

      (a) are not on the net, and,

      (b) use industrial control mobos (which are very capable of running older XP drivers--even the new boards), and,

      (c) we've others that are connected to the Web but do not hold valuable data.

      If anything goes wrong with these installations we plug in another drive with a pre-configured XP or just HD-mirror from a backup.

      Moreover, we've still a few W2K and NT4 installations and there's absolutely no need to change them. These installations, like most of the XP ones, will be there until they rot! (And to my knowledge not one of our XP installations is patched past sp3 (it's unnecessary and far too much trouble to bother).

      Except for the odd few laptops that run a highly modified Win-7 (you'd have difficulty at first glance to tell them apart from Win 2000), Microsoft has been off the menu for years.

      This is because of Microsoft's deliberate mucking about with UIs, failure to provide Windows versions that can be properly configured/patched/modified (i.e.: fully uninstall IE, Explorer and/or other features etc.). Thus, we see absolutely no need to change anything come April 2014.

      In recent years, when we've have made changes, it's usually been to Linux, QNX etc.

      BTW, the reason we've so many XP installations is that suppliers--not us--have installed it in systems that either should have had embedded code or more robust O/Ses--QNX for instance. Trouble is, it was (and still is) fashionable to use M/S Windows when other much more suitable products would have been better options.

      As I've said on these posts before, I know of XP and earlier versions of Windows that'll still be around for at least another decade or more, as that's the life of the plant to which it is connected. I even know of some heavy multi-axis machining centres that are still running Win 2000, their lifespan is 25 years, which means their W2K controllers will still be around until at least 2025, possibly even longer!!

      Irrespective, of what anyone says--or all the noisy jumping up and down from Microsoft--around the globe, there'll be millions of XP installations still in service for many years yet to come.

      Even though you'll be most unlikely to ever read about them in the pages of El Reg, they nevertheless will still be there.

      Remember, companies that buy systems and equipment which incorporates MS Windows as a component (i.e.: stuff whose primary function isn't a normal PC) couldn't give a damn about what O/S is on it. The O/S is just another [boring] component of the machine--thus, there's no user base in the normal sense of a PC with its user (and no pressure to change or upgrade it).

      Microsoft has only itself to blame for this problem.

      1. All names Taken
        Paris Hilton

        Re: @Trevor_Pott -- Exactly!

        The O/S is just another [boring] component of the machine--thus, there's no user base in the normal sense of a PC with its user (and no pressure to change or upgrade it).

        Sounds like a job for ARM when they get round to replacing original machinery and control systems?

        1. RobHib

          @All names Taken -- Re: @Trevor_Pott -- Exactly!

          ARM would be the logical solution. I'm sure it will be solution as it offers sufficient power for both a good UI as well as control features.

          Unfortunately, lots of industrial stuff is just forgotten (until plant is renewed). It makes little sense to change it on economic grounds if the gear continues to function as initially intended (and accountants won't let one change it anyway--I know from lots of experience).

          Despite all the stuff about internet connectivity to one's fridge or whatever, it doesn't necessarily happen. Even if it does, then security isn't often a big deal (certainly in many instances). For instance, why update Windows on a display sign? The worst that could possibly happen is that it could be hacked to display porn or propaganda. Heaven forbid, what a tragedy that'd be!! Moreover, there's no user to complain about the lack of features and the viewing public wouldn't have a clue whether it's ARM, Windows or even OS/2 that's running it.

          Same with automatic tellers, but security's a problem there. Even so, many ATMs are still XP which only proves my point. The fact is, for many organizations, upgrading Windows is just a yawn or a bloody chore (and it's not done until truly necessary).

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: @Trevor_Pott -- Exactly!

          '..Sounds like a job for ARM when they get round to replacing original machinery and control systems?'

          The problem there is, why change/replace something which works? and as to when..

          I've been through this recently with a win98 controller box (software is dongled, and 98 is the highest OS we can use it on). Long story short, we've had 'issues', someone thought that the incredibly old and ugly IBM box running 98 was the problem, so lets replace it. And lo, it came to pass...they've just introduced more 'issues' into the loop.

          The primary bit of kit this machine controls is 10-12 years old (give or take), and I'd expect it to last another decade, we're possibly getting an update of the controller software (via 'channels'), but it is XP only (and no plans for anything else). My contingency plan involves a fair amount of hardware hacking and LinuxCNC (and/or mach3 as a backup for the sphenisciphobes), at this point it might see an ARM controller being deployed (I've a smaller testbed which at some point is going to sport a Pi+additional hardware to test all this out..code hacking ahoy!).

          All these 'legacy' machines are networked, but are behind two dedicated firewalls (currently) with some of the XP boxes also running local firewalling.

          At home, I've recently had to reinstall XP on a second machine (dual boots, with Debian being the primary OS) just to run a copy of Coreldraw 6 (not X6) (prepping graphics files @home for work, and no, despite a lot of frigging about, it doesn't work well enough under Wine to do what I want ), the other XP box is now a dedicated DAW (used to also run CAD, but I've switched to Draftsight on the primary Linux box). An asides here, in another comment earlier, @Jason 7 makes a point about 13 year old XP boxes, well, the DAW box's motherboard dates from 2001, XP was reinstalled on it late 2007, the other hardware in it and hanging off it is admittedly a bit newer, but all XP patches up till this month have been applied and I've no issues with it.

          The reason I'll be sticking with XP@home, I'll be buggered if I'm forking out more money unnecessarily for updated software again, was bitten badly at the win2k/XP change, if it hadn't been for the fact that one of the software packages I needed was deliberately crippled not to run on win2k, I'd still be running all the old stuff I used on that OS..

          As to the 'security' implications, the boundary firewall machine @home is getting upgraded over the next fortnight (Celeron 433, 768MB -> Core2 2.0GHz, 4GB) I'll be upping the stakes on the IDS/malware scanning, the works firewall responsible for the same tasks will follow suit if I have any say in it.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: @Trevor_Pott -- Exactly!

        And we have a stack of machines running OS/2 for the same reasons - they are part of the machine and just do the job as intended. Most of them are 18 years old but there are several that are older and I expect them to still be running in 25 years time and even longer if just the machines they control are updated.

      3. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: @Trevor_Pott -- Exactly!

        "systems and equipment which incorporates MS Windows as a component (i.e.: stuff whose primary function isn't a normal PC) "

        "we've so many XP installations is that suppliers--not us--have installed it in systems that either should have had embedded code or more robust O/Ses--QNX for instance."

        These suppliers could perhaps even have installed and supplied XP Embedded, in which case you'd still be supported officially for a few more years.

        QNX or a robust Linux would indeed have been better still in many cases.

    3. BobChip
      Linux

      WIN Auto update

      Yup. I run XP SP3 in VirtualBox on Mint 16, on a reasonably powerful homebuild. AU is turned off. Internet access is disabled. Rock solid and goes like stink. Essential kit for working with / editing some older CAD files.

      1. RobHib

        @BobChip - - Re: WIN Auto update

        I forgot to mention that AU is an absolute no-no in our establishment. AU was eventually completely banned some years back when we forgot and accidentally allowed a new Win 7 machine to download over a GB of data on a wireless link. It chewed up all the remaining credit, thus we couldn't gain access at a critical time.

        Of course, MS seems to think it has a god-given right to use up wireless (any internet) resources without the user's express permission.

        You're right about such boxes, they sit and continue to perform. Without internet and AU, Microsoft can only guess what's out there. Methinks, it's probably underestimating.

    4. Mystic Megabyte
      Stop

      Upgrade to XP now.

      I'm working on a boat at the moment, the LaserPlot chart-plotter runs on MSDOS!

      1. Mr_Pitiful

        Re: Upgrade to XP now.

        I noticed that a few years ago

        Many of the ships systems were running DOS 3.1 for sonar or simply NAV stuff for the scientists onboard, it was pretty much all they understood!!

  7. Thaumaturge

    Bah

    I just purchased a 10" dual core 1.2GHz 1G ram 1080p HDMI out Android 4.2 tablet for $120, SHIPPED.

    Why would I bother with Microshaft?

    Will keep my XP laptop for word processing. I already run noscript and don't have flash even installed. I tried updating my desktop several months ago, but was informed microsoft had SHUT OFF the XP Pro corporate copy I was running on it because I simply couldn't tolerate the Vista system that came with it for more than an hour. I downloaded a copy of both Ubuntu and an Android simulator for it. Problem solved.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Bah

      your tablet sounds great; I just purchased an Olimex (Bulgarian, apparently) Android/Debian mini-PC with 1G ram & SATA with a dual core A7 with dual core Mali 500 gpu, its effectively running off a PP3 battery and has a cellphone battery as a UPS! cost €55 - I'm using an existing 22" 1080p TV, but the A20 lime PC will drive a 2K via HDMI. I think Windows8 cannot compete at this price-point/performance!

  8. Christian Berger

    Actually it changes nothing

    those $100 won't make Windows 8 magically compatible with the software running on Windows XP.

  9. Tristan Young

    Absolutely not interested in any hardware Microsoft has to offer, and also not interested in Windows 8.x. Giving Windows 8.x away for free is no-where near enough compensation for me.

    I think Microsoft needs to realize, Windows 8 is junk. Sure, the kernel may be better, but overall the OS looks like crap - it's flat, and very boring. If I have to stare at a glowing screen all day, it had better look sweet. Windows 7 works VERY WELL on my existing hardware. Windows XP is being run on a total of two of my own computers, until I can muster enough free time to install Windows 7. I would buy a computer running Win 7, but again, never from Microsoft's website.

    I would go back to Vista before turning to 8.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      "Sure, the kernel may be better..."

      No. It's the same kernel. It's Windows v6 just like Vista (v6.0) and "7" (v6.1). Windows "8" is v6.2 and "8.1" is v6.3. Has Microsoft lost the plot? You bet!

  10. Lostintranslation

    "a radical user-interface redesign".

    Is that geekspeak for crap?

  11. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    this changes nothing

    Microsoft store is more than $100 overpriced. Only a total pleb would fall for this.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: this changes nothing

      quite a lot of people then...

  12. McHack

    What the promotion should be

    Go to your local Best Buy, Staples, wherever you get consumer gear.

    Hand in an XP COA sticker, MS will deactivate the number, making it ineligible for security updates. You can bring in whatever housing the sticker's attached to, the clerk will document it before scraping it off.

    Receive a brand spanking new MS Surface slab, original version, absolutely free. MS was never going to sell them anyway. For XP Home you only get a Surface RT, Media Center or Professional gets regular Surface with different drive sizes, etc.

    Toss in an original retail-edition install or upgrade media (not OEM), get a free basic cover/keyboard as well.

    That's fair.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: What the promotion should be

      "Hand in an XP COA sticker, MS will deactivate the number, making it ineligible for security updates." What security updates?

      To others commenting od older OS's, I have seen DOS 6.22 in the fireld controlling machines, try finding hardware to support that. (It's possible, I had to do it, but was not easy. Finding NE2000 cards are more expensive than new kit.)

      My XP workstation has been on KVM for a few years, before that it was VitualIron (Xen), I plan to keep using it when I need too, which is why I still have it around. It is networked and has Internet access too, I'm not in the least bothered about MS updates either but I wouldn't let my mother run it. Main PC runs Mint.

      1. El Zed

        Re: What the promotion should be

        'To others commenting od older OS's, I have seen DOS 6.22 in the fireld controlling machines, try finding hardware to support that. '

        In the past three months, I've thrown out several working AMD-K6, PI and PII systems that we no longer had any space to store (I've several PII/PIII IBMs we're keeping for spares). It's actually very easy to find DOS boxes..and I've had a HP thin client running both FreeDOS and Win98 just for the hell of it..

        '(It's possible, I had to do it, but was not easy. Finding NE2000 cards are more expensive than new kit.)'

        That is good to know (sayeth the man with 8 of the beasties safely squirreled away).

        (My internet facing interface is still a ne2k, and an ISA one to boot, so this message has passed through it (along with 2.6TB of other stuff over the past couple of years)

  13. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    I think their game boils down to...

    ... effectively giving away Windows 8 for free to boost the numbers so that they can clain it is a "success".

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: I think their game boils down to...

      Could well be, it's certainly the way "marketing support" for WP effectively gave licenses for that OS to Nokia for free. I wonder how that turned out... I hear they're up to 3% mobile OS market share.

  14. thomas k.

    upgrading old boxes

    I have 2 desktop PCs running XP and a netbook, too.

    How about offering Win 7 installation discs for a nominal charge so I can upgrade them, lots of usefulness left in them - everyone wins!

    1. Julian Bond

      Re: upgrading old boxes

      Quite so. A free (or very, very cheap) copy of Win7 premium for the ancient laptop next door please. And a cut down version of same for the ancient eeePC 900 upstairs.

      Anyway. If all I want to run is Winamp, Chrome, Thunderbird, why do I need to upgrade from XP? It just works. There are no kids in the house any more so no-one who's going to click on some dodgy porn or film download site. So what's the problem?

      1. Ken Hagan Gold badge

        Re: upgrading old boxes

        "Anyway. If all I want to run is Winamp, Chrome, Thunderbird, why do I need to upgrade from XP? It just works"

        If that's your usage profile, you could stick something like Debian Stable on and enjoy full support, with far fewer worries about viral infections and probably a performance boost because you won't be running AV software that gobbles half your RAM and turns every disc access into an exercise in triple-checked paranoia.

        Most people have at least one key application that ties them to XP, but if you don't then it's worth switching.

      2. Mystic Megabyte
        Linux

        Re: upgrading old boxes

        I'm typing this on an eeePC900 running Xubuntu 13.10.

        An easy install, it all works OOTB and boots up very fast. It resumes from suspend in a couple of seconds and is reconnected to wi-fi in a few more. Added Chromium, it's faster than Firefox.

        If you are going for the full-fat install then consider moving /tmp and /var to the 16GB drive because the 4GB drive will fill up fast and leave no room for the updates.

    2. an it guy

      Re: upgrading old boxes

      Well, I've had a Win 7 license transferred to me just recently. Think I'm going to give it a go, and try not to format all my data away (very glad to have been insistent on my data on a separate partition). I'm currently on Xubuntu, and the install has so far been fiarly pleasant and painless. Much nicer than standard ubuntu.

      *I like ubuntu, but the interface is also a radical change, and actually hard to get on to. I like a nice organised start menu. it works really well.

  15. UKHobo

    This changes nothing: Microsoft slips WinXP holdouts the middle finger again

    - there you go

  16. Tom 7

    A $699 PC

    is well beyond the need of most windows users - that haven't 'upgraded' already.

    When you've got one that can stream HD from the internet, do all your email and browsing well, and with occasional hiccup running that old copy of office to do the odd paper based thing then you're not going anywhere - except maybe a new graphics card for the odd game if your kids are not already consoled up.

    I've noticed an increase in people asking to try linux on their PC's simply because they no longer worry about it as their phones and tablets do all they need, and you can kit out the whole family with them for $699.

  17. Fihart

    Why (sensible) people would buy a new computer.

    1. The old computer breaks beyond economic repair.

    2. A new application won't run on the old OS and the computer is too old/slow for newer OS.

    I don't see people rushing to buy a new computer because there's money off Win8.

    Microsoft don't get it.

    If I were them (and not so in bed with the hardware business) I'd be developing a slimmer Windows that'll run much better on existing machines than any recent version. At a retail price that's little more than currently charged to hardware vendors. So people actually choose to upgrade to a new Windows and maybe also buy new applications from Microsoft.

    If the proposition was "install this and your old computer will run faster than when it was new", who could resist ? People pay good money for memory upgrades on exactly that proposition.

    Instead we see ever-heavier-handed attempts to hang on to an existing business model -- unfortunately now with an OS people won't buy unless it's forced onto them via new hardware.

    1. Roger Greenwood

      Re: Why (sensible) people would buy a new computer.

      " I'd be developing a slimmer Windows that'll run much better on existing machines"

      But they can't do that, and the reason is greed. Once you're on a gravy train it's hard to get off.

    2. hungee

      Re: Why (sensible) people would buy a new computer.

      Windows 8 runs faster than 7 and lighter on resources than 7... So.. Yeah. They actually did that. They aren't going to make a "slimmer" version of XP. It would cost more than they would make off it. Plus everyone would bag them for lack of application support. Eg. "RT"

      Windows XP has been supported for 13 years. I feel like that is a good roi on your original buy in cost. Get over it. Move with the times. Get a new. Computer or buy the old folks a cheap box and put mint on it. If they don't want to invest. They don't get a choice.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Why (sensible) people would buy a new computer.

        They don't get a choice.

        Spoken like a true Windows user

  18. heyrick Silver badge

    I'm running XP on a netbook. Have no intention of upgrading as I do not expect that small machine with its undersized SSDs would cope very well with Win8.x and there is the question of compatibility - I'm not dumb enough to think my ancient video capture USB device (that I use as a surrogate TV) will magically work with the new system. Probably the same for various software packages.

    So it occurs to me. Replacing my computer will not only be a large expenditure, it will also be a mammoth upheaval. Sort of like transitioning to a completely new setup.

    In which case... Do I really need to go to Windows 8.x? I have "played" briefly in various showrooms and didn't like how it looked and felt and, fine, I don't expect supermarket staff to have much of a clue about setting these things up, but it occurs to me that I can just pick up a cheapish PC and drop some version of Linux on it.

    Maybe this is why Microsoft is worried? As an XP holdout, I didn't feel the need to upgrade to every new version of Windows, and their removing XP support is not going to change the fact. Indeed, with little spare cash and a machine that works perfectly well, my options and choices - when upgrade time comes - extend far beyond Redmond.

  19. David Roberts
    Megaphone

    Lifetime free support?

    Not that I'm a massive MS fan but everyone seems to be asuming that a one off payment years back entitles you to lifetime free support.

    How does that work, then?

    Where does the money come from to maintain XP?

    Run XP at risk for free.

    To work with all that unsupported hardware and software you bought back in the day.

    Just accept that if something goes wrong you have to fix it or pay someone.

    Your choice your risk.

    I assume that MS discounted a serious paid support option because of the ease of one person buying updates then redistributing them.

    Or more likely corporate religion issues.

    Then again if MS offered a $£€10 a year "relicensing" fee for each copy of XP for continuing support on your existing hardware would you pay to keep XP?

    It would fit the business model of selling a new version every few years to keep revenue flowing.

    10 coins a year isn't a major hit.

    When the hardware dies you move on.

    If you want a free operating system with long term support then go to Linux or similar and join the "Freetards" (I include myself in there).

    Just don't keep whingeing about not getting free support for life for a commercial product.

    1. Paul Crawford Silver badge

      Re: Lifetime free support?

      If I was being aggressive I would say "because they sold it with so many bugs in the first place".

      If I was being helpful I would have suggested to MS that they could have offered support for, say, $5 per user per year after the first year. That is pretty small per user, but a tidy sum with some hundreds of millions of users and you could get support as long as you want, and they can afford to pay the staff to do so.

      But doing what the customer wants seems to be an alien concept to so many companies.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Lifetime free support?

        The cost of collecting the $5/per annum plus the cost of dealing with no-payers would exceed the revenue collected - much better to give 13 years free support to consumers and charge corporates a fee that subsidizes the consumers.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Lifetime free support?

          The cost of collecting the $5/per annum plus the cost of dealing with no-payers would exceed the revenue collected

          You're talking out your arse. Even if they had a PayPal button at the worst rate, they would still get ~$4.50. And that's for individual payments.

          And how does dealing with no-payers cost anything? You just deny them access to the updates!

          Even if only a quarter of XP users pay, that's still more than those of us using desktop Linux.

          To me, it seems like an obvious thing to do. But then again, having a different UI on a tablet and desktop also seems obvious.

          What do I know? I'm no longer a Windows user. But paying that $5/year may have kept me as one.

  20. Roger Greenwood

    Old machines

    I don't see much discussion about what you do with all the old machines supposedly at "end of life". Sure you can just dump them (or the shop can) and forget about it.

    You could try and recycle them, not always easy particularly for small businesses as it can still cost.

    Upgrading the OS etc. is not currently practical with any MS products.

    I currently favour slapping some Linux on them - some are going for many years like this until they are called to the big landfill in the cloud.

  21. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Dear Microsoft - Re Windows 8

    What part of "no thank you" are you having trouble with?

    Would "Shove your head up your bum and sneeze" be any more meaningful?

  22. Adrian 4
    Mushroom

    I wonder how far Wine is from implementing a complete XP API. You know FreeDOS? The same thing could happen with XP. Wine has it's limitations but I suspect they're more to do with producing a windows-like environment than with the quality of the code. Removing the need to run on top of another OS might make it a fully working replacement.

    1. Paul Crawford Silver badge

      In most cases, probably special hardware aside, if you have XP-specific software the best solution is to run an XP VM in another host OS (my choice Linux, but Win7/8 just as effective).

      You get 100% XP compatibility, no future hardware driver issues, the ability to restrict internet access to the (soon very vulnerable) XP VM, and a host computer that runs whatever new stuff you need fairly safely.

      1. Bladeforce

        Except..

        Wine converts the API's to use GNU API's at the base level eliminating overheads

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      @Adrian 4

      I've just had a recent bash with Wine Is Not an Emulator on my smart new Haswell G4 based laptop. I had to run winetricks as per the very simple wiki entry to install MS's DirectX 9 redist and all of a sudden a reasonably modern game runs full wide screen, silky smooth with audio and everything.

      OK I'll come clean, its one of those hidden object jobbies (it's for the wife - honest!)

      WINE is simply amazing given what they are trying to achieve. Its way more ambitious than a hypervisor (have you ever tried to even use the Win32 API - now imagine trying to translate it on the fly to another API) and the pay off is incredible performance, often exceeding the original.

      All that said, I think that you can pretty much assume that WinXP is near enough fully covered by WINE, with winetricks and some workarounds.

      For all else run up a KVM or use a native Linux application.

  23. The Grump

    "An OS too far..."

    "How Windows 8 nearly ruined Microsoft". Look for it in hard cover and paperback at your local bookstore next Christmas. I guess Microlimp never learned the lesson of "New Coke" - ask the consumer if they actually want it before you shove it down their throats. Win XP remembers where I closed program windows, and reopens them in the same place. Does Vista - no. Does Win7 - no. Does Win8 ? After being burned by Vista and 7, why would I burn myself again ? Win XP works. Win 8 is bollocks. Nuff said.

  24. Davie Dee

    They should run the heavy discount program the did at the start on Win8 again, I came in to a couple of old computers but good enough specs that id update to 8.1 tomorrow, but not for the full price they are currently asking.

    I updated 2 computers and a laptop with that offer and could do the same again now, but I cant justify the normal price tag on a PC that essentially works. If I keep those little shitebags off my computer using it as some bot to attack the world then I don't see what harm its doing, ticking away in the corner.

    1. MysteryGuy

      > They should run the heavy discount program the did at the start on Win8 again,

      In my case, that still wouldn't be nearly good enough for me to want to use Windows 8 (at least at the moment).

      I bought two of the 'cheap' $40.00 Win 8 upgrades when it came out on the odd chance that they would come to their senses some day. I still don't use them. I just continue using the Windows 7 I already have installed .

      For me, effectivly 'free' still isn't good enough of a reason to make me want to 'upgrade' (since I would still view this as a downgrade for multiple reasons... )

      1. Davie Dee

        In all seriousness, would you be willing to sell one of those licences?

  25. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    The question is, when Win8 is more optimised than 7, why would anyone need to buy a new computer?

    Of course, if their XP machine is from 2001 then of course they might need to :)

  26. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Hah! Pathetic, desperate Microsoft

    Trying to get more people to hop onto the Windows 8 bandwagon, so Microsoft's quarterly results look less embarrassing to shareholders.

    WinXP users, hold onto your OS and boycott Windows 8. Windows 9 is going to be released in 2015 anyway, if you're so inclined, you may definitely upgrade to Windows 9 after waiting another year.

    Let Windows 8 rot in its grave of infamy.

  27. HighTech4US

    A better deal

    Get a Refurbished "Lenovo ThinkCentre M58p Small Form Factor Desktop Intel Core 2 Duo 2.13GHz 2GB RAM 160G HDD DVDROM Windows 7 Home Premium" for $89.99.

    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16883266036

    Most users still on XP are just using it for basic tasks and the above system is more than powerful enough for those tasks and it comes with Windows 7.

    I bought one to replace my wifes aging XP machine,

  28. t20racerman

    Wipe old work PCs and put Linux on. No more payments for me!

    At work we still have the 'replace every desktop' every 2/3 years mentality even though they sit on a network, work perfectly, and will continue to do so for years.

    I asked for, and was given, 'old' PCs and a laptop (wiped HDD) and upgraded my own PC with those. The laptop is an old Celeron one that now runs nice on Mint, for basic stuff, and my main PC is a very nice box that was higher spec for a graphics user, and I upgraded the RAM, put a better video card in and run the excellent PCLinuxOS on that - and it is superb.

    As the family nerd (ie free IT consultant) I'm moving Windows XP users over to Mint to make their PCs faster and more secure. Only those who insist it HAS to run MS Office have a problem... and they are on their own as far as THIS unpaid IT guy goes.

  29. Tim Brown 1
    FAIL

    15% is misleading

    That 15% figure for windows XP refers to desktop AND TABLET OSs, since XP doesn't run on tablets it's irrelevant. The figure for just desktop PCs is just under 30%.

    1. Vociferous

      Re: 15% is misleading

      I'm not sure why Microsoft is so keen on conflating Desktop, Phone and RT figures: to inflate the acceptance stats for Phone and RT, or to play down the de-facto monopoly of Desktop?

  30. Mage Silver badge

    This changes NOTHING!

    $100 to compensate for a new PC (with inferior screen) and an Inferior OS?

    I'll keep going till wheels fall off, then Mint + Wine.

  31. Mindbreaker

    I bet the retention rate of XP Pro 64-bit are even higher than XP. With a few modifications it is the best I've used. I have a much nicer computer but I am using the XP Pro most of the time even though the hardware can give me issues. XP Pro 64-bit is going for around $400 now. No one want to let go of that one.

  32. Vociferous

    More effective.

    I don't understand why Microsoft isn't offering a special "Upgrade From XP" version of Windows 8, with an instance of XP running in a secured hyper-v virtual machine.

    Yeah, the upgraders will hate Win8, spend most of their time in the virtual machine, and not use Microsofts future cash cows (Microsoft Store, cloud storage) but that will happen anyway.

    1. Destroy All Monsters Silver badge

      Re: More effective.

      Handing flexible solutions to consumers?

      It simply is against their DNA.

    2. El Andy

      Re: More effective.

      @Vociferous: "I don't understand why Microsoft isn't offering a special "Upgrade From XP" version of Windows 8, with an instance of XP running in a secured hyper-v virtual machine."

      They did that for Windows 7 (so called XP Mode), if the XP users didn't migrate then, why would they now?

  33. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Yet another Linux bore

    Here at home, I was worried about the fate of our 12-year-old Dell laptop running XP SP3 (horrifically slowly, I should add), so decided to throw caution to the wind and did a wipe/install of Lubuntu (as I figured it may not cope with a regular distro).

    The most laborious task was finding an old enough version of Lubuntu that didn't care about the laptop's Pentium M processor, and going through two full version updates to bring it up to date.

    Not everything worked straight away, but Google was my friend and I've been surprised at how much I've been able to get functional - even wireless scanning and running Office 2003 under Wine.

    Basically, I've saved myself hundreds of pounds and avoided having to throw a functioning computer in a skip. I'm now tempted to go through the XP kit at work and see what 'obsolete' hardware I can resurrect

    1. Sporkinum

      Re: Yet another Linux bore

      Similar situation with my Dad's 10 year old laptop. He brought it up to me to install linux. I backed up all his data and settings to my NAS, and then wiped it and installed Xubuntu. It took me a bit longer than I thought due to problems getting broadcom drivers running. Once that was sorted, it went great. Mailed it back down to him. Took him an hour to figure out how to enter his wireless password, but once he did that, he liked it a lot. Runs smoother and faster than under XP, and since he was using Firefox before, all his browser stuff was just as it was before.

  34. jonnycando

    vicariously reading

    So glad I have Macintosh and Linux boxes!

  35. James Gosling

    Windows XP was....

    Windows XP was crap, it was just less crap than ME and Vista. A utopia of least crappiest. Windows 7 was even less crappy then the crap returned with Windows 8... lets ship an OS tuned for touch screen on all the non-touch screen devices and so there is no easy way out we will hide the menu... ah ha! Stroke of genius.

    Also people talk of Microsoft and a big enormous company. maybe, but certainly not as big as they once were, not really in the league of the big boys anymore. And it infuriates me when people suggest Microsoft has anything to do with innovation, they don't. They are just a largish money making machine and they are good at making money.

  36. This post has been deleted by its author

  37. Yugguy

    Ahhh

    To all the Windows 8 fanbois.

    If Windows 8 is so good why are Ms getting increasingly desperate to flog it?

    I find everything in it to be painful in the extreme. And I've tried to warm to it. But it's just basically SHIT.

  38. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    oh damn, if only I'd known....

    I would never have dumped XP in favour of Debian. Nope, sorry, that's a lie. I still would have dumped XP.

  39. J.G.Harston Silver badge

    I'll take a free Windows 8 PC as long as it doesn't have Windows 8 on it. XP please.

  40. Bradley Hardleigh-Hadderchance
    Facepalm

    This might all turn out to be a bit more interesting than the Millenium Bug

    All those 'Air-Gapped' systems. Some running critical infrastructure. The irresistible force and the unmovable object (Customers who have paid for and set up their software, with some of them just being 'tight' and 'freetards', the others being pragmatically locked in, albeit by worsening economic times or lack of forethought, or perish the thought, both! AND Microsoft, respectively).

    But I know little about that. Except with this latest news that it is turning into a bit of a game of 'chicken'.

    What do I know about? Well. Let's start first with me being the typical unpaid tech support to family. You know, called in for a 72 hour hacking run to restore a not backed up system, because of another family member visiting dodgy sites. That kind of thing.

    Mumsy got bought a win8 laptop and I tried to put on there the only thing she uses a computer for - SCRABBLE! (Excuse the caps, that was the sound of me SHOUTING!)

    Of course, it being such an advanced version of the Kernel, it will not run 16-bit programs. She has a more up to date version. She is not a freetard. But, go figure, she likes the old one better. I made an .iso of it for future use as the old one was scratched worse than a Tom Cat that fancied his chances. She uses the computer for nothing else. She can not switch a computer on or off. She can not use email. She can be sat down on the chair and pointed to a search engine and she can sometimes get lucky and find websites of interest. But this brings its own problems. She might sound like a retard and being the Mother of a son with diagnosed HFA/Aspie, you may be forgiven that the tree is never far from where the apple might lie. She is however, an exceptional poet and human being. She is also extremely infuriating. This is turning into a bit of a case study, so switch over now those of you with small attention spans.

    In short, she is not a moron. She is not an average user either, granted. Her little game of Scrabble (I've calmed down a bit now) in the afternoon keeps her sane while my Stepdad sleeps off his medication. Ah, my Stepdad. Another case study.

    Follow me, as Dedoimedo says...

    We get on great, no animosity at all. But he thinks nothing of getting the arsehole with me when I now try to fix their computer. I installed Ghostery (not even the vicious fascist ADBlock) and Disqus stopped working on the comments in the Independent. He never quite forgave me for that. Or forgot.

    Now, on this win8 lappy that I tried to install the 16-bit Scrabble (see, I'm still calm) on, there was a queer little problem. The CPU hit was through the roof, the machine was practically hung, in short it was crippled. After 20 minutes of trying to find the equivalent of the Task Manager, I finally sussed that the problem was McAffee. I shit you not. It is an oldie but goodie as they say. The best part was, that half of the hit was for message: "YOUR ANTI-VIRUS IS ABOUT TO RUN OUT IN 4 YEARS. YOUR MACHINE IS VULNERABLE. YOU ARE UNDER ATTACK YOU ARE UNDER ATTACK. ALL THOSE NAUGHTY KNICKER PICTURES YOU POSTED TO YOUTOO? NOW HAVE YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS AND CREDIT CARD NUMBER ATTACHED. I REPEAT YOU ARE UNDER ATTACK YOU ARE UNDER ATTACK. CREDIT CARD NEEDED NOW FOR YOUR RENEWAL FOR 2018. THIS IS NOT A VIRUS. THIS IS NOT A VIRUS".

    I exaggerate somewhat for artistic definition. Those lacking in the irony department, feel free to pull me up on this one. Those lacking in the humour/sarcasm dept. just downvote and stop wasting everyone's time.

    The best part is about to come though, for those not short of attention and long on perseverance.

    So, I thought, maybe, just kill it with fire, nuke it! What the hey, the subscription that they did not sign up to runs out in a few months (I will admit to lying about the earlier time frame I posted for affect earlier).

    My face red. Veins starting to bulge. Whole morning computer session ruined by an operating system that I don't know how to use and a fucking extortion virus planted by an anti-virus company (and you wonder why we love that little white fluffy nosed head case that shoots his own software for fun on youtube?).

    And I say to my Stepdad (and this is after I have explained that I can get the 16-bit Scrabble to run in a VM, but it might take me a bit of time coz I am new to all that, but I am pretty sure it can be done. And she won't need to put the original CD in any more to the CD player, just click on a linky), I say: Oh your AV is running out in a few weeks (again, exaggerating the other way this time - I am not to be trusted really), why don't I just uninstall it as it will cost you 50 quid just for a year and you will need to pay that again in 12 months time (not even I could exaggerate how long a year is - this guy is no chump!)?

    At this point, he starts to get agitated. Now it is him trying to keep his blood pressure down (see what you have done Microsoft/McaFee [same company - go figure - McaSoft's the name, extortion is our game]?).

    Please excuse my pathetic parenthesis. I'm sure that someone who codes C++ could do much better.

    No, he is trying to control his anger and not doing a very good job of it. A frisson ensues.

    He says: But then I won't have any Anti Virus on there, and I will be open to Virii (he doesn't say 'Virii' but pedantically he should have).

    I says: No problem, I will put on there, another solution, also by Microsoft, the makers of your Operating System. It will be free, invisible, and highly effective (ok, I lied about the last part - I did tell you I was not to be trusted - you are seeing the worst of me here, and this is a fight for survival now). You will not know the difference, and it won't cost you 50 quid!

    He explodes with rage! Cough, Splutter, Stroke (Again I lied and it's not good to trivialise these things, but then again it isn't a good thing to increase your chances of that exponentially when someone is trying to fix your fucking computer for you for free).

    He says: How dare you, putting another VIRUS on my computer. I still have not FORGOT (my bold) that last time I could not use the disqus comments on the Independent.

    Me. Mixture of facepalm through back of the head with 'time to go apeshit'.

    I bit my tongue. Shut the fuck up. And went down the pub. Got fucking wrecked.

    I can not deal with these people.

    Btw, when I go to see my folks every now and again, the system hardening I have put in place seems to have worked, because when I check the logs, they are clean.

    Thankless task.

    Now, my Stepdad uses software that he has no backup for and will need to buy again.

    Does he say thanks for my researching and finding open source alternatives for Microsoft products he bought and still has the disks for, but Microsoft 'discontinued'? No. Course not.

    Not only would the data migration itself be a pain and need some kind of strategy to be effective, but it would also cost money. He plays games and buys everything. Again he is not a freetard.

    Microsoft is fucking about with his mind. In a few days time his software is going to stop working, and it won't be because XP (SP3) blows up. It will be because Microsoft withdrew support a little while ago for people (devs) providing the said software. And hardware of course - that goes with out saying.

    That shall be the point of my next post.

    I've had enough for now. I could rant on for hours more. I am ready to answer questions.

    But, maybe, you will have caught the gist of case study one.

  41. Bradley Hardleigh-Hadderchance

    Case study two

    Me!

    Me me me! It's all about Me!

    I work in audio predominantly. I do other stuff too like 3D, but I'll leave all that out. This will be focused on my use of Audio and how I see all this affecting the Audio community now that support is being withdrawn for XP.

    First off. I use an excellent little (and I mean little) nLited install called DuXP. Look it up on the Cockos forum. The iso is out there, but you will need a valid serial/license to use it alongside LEGITIMATELY.

    This guy knows what he is doing and has stripped out to an almost brutal extent any services and dlls that are not needed to run a fully functioning and extremely fast WinXP SP3 install. The rationale being: it is stripped down and you shouldn't use it if you don't know what you are doing and if you do know what you are doing you will know how to reinstall any services you need. It has many thousands of downlolads, no complaints, and many compliments.

    Now the problem is not buying new software or paying for new software or being able to afford new software. No. the problem is: Re Registering new software. Ahhh! You know like that time you bought a new hard drive and Ableton made you wait three days after crippling your install, because you put in a bigger faster drive? That's it. Now, Ableton were pretty brutal to do that. But they are nothing compared to all the small software developers that I buy software from. And I am not alone. Whilst being an afficionado of reverse engineering, I pay for ALL my software. I spend silly amounts. More than you spent on Fucking Visual Studio or what not. Really. It is a MASSIVE AMOUNT.

    But, and it is a very big but. I am punished for it. Because. If I was to have to re-install all the software I have for every program (dll) be it synth, drum machine, effects - it runs into thousands actually, then it would take me days and days and days to do this.

    All because, I pay for my software. Every single piece. In fact, and I have mentioned it before, I give away stuff and work for free on a few bits of this software. If you use a lot of VSTs then I bet you are using a GUI I designed or altered for free.

    Enough about me me me.

    It's not all about me.

    But, I will say this. I am not alone, there are many people that pay for every single piece of software they use. Ok, they may not be the majority, but the times are changing and they are not the minority any more. It is seriously frowned upon to admit to using crack software in the audio community. Yes, everyone does it. Even if it is just to 'test' (stop snickering at the back there).

    And once you 'pop' you can't 'stop'.

    Times 10. Time 100. Times 1000 for some nutters.

    So, you see, it is not just a case of a quick simple OS install.

    This is why many many do not want to 'upgrade' to a slower OS and have the majoy royal pain in the arse that this would be.

    Ok, small niche. Extreme use case.

    Rant done.

    Over and out.

  42. Bradley Hardleigh-Hadderchance

    As for VMs

    Yeah, I run WinXp3 off usb sticks in RAM. Have to use the virtual hard disk on my main physical disk of course. Who would try to run a disk of a usb drive?

    It flies. It works very very fast.

    The problem is with drivers. But getting there. Spent a long time trouble shooting stuff.

    Got things going great with the gfx drivers. But audio drivers are more difficult.

    Then there is wine.

    There are lots of alternatives coming to light.

    Virtual Hard Drives.

    Say no more. Say no more. Course she does. Course she does.

    There is a very interesting push/pull dynamic developing recently between the vested interests of Microsoft and whatnot and those of us that have mucho mega megabytes of real work invested on extra drives/external drives. We have graphics/audio on there. That stuff is gone if there is fire. That stuff needs to be backed up in triplicate, off site. I think most in the game understand that. Even then it is not for ever.

    This is not about freetard/lazy. Hell, it's not even about redundancy (though that is a very good and valid argument for another day).

    This is a major logistics problem of people building up data that is coupled to software (os), and the lack of foresight from both party's views to do something about it.

This topic is closed for new posts.

Other stories you might like