back to article Microsoft to get in XP users' faces with one last warning

Microsoft will give Windows XP users one final warning that their operating system is about to go feral. Redmond's been talking up the death of XP for two years, but will now use the operating system itself to put the news of the software’s demise right in the face of every single user with the dialog box below. Microsoft's …

COMMENTS

This topic is closed for new posts.
  1. as2003

    Hopefully this doesn't end up bricking swathes of ATMs across the globe

    1. pierce
      Mushroom

      I hope it DOES brick ATMs'. anyone building embedded systems using consumer desktop software deserves everything they get.

      1. Jamie Jones Silver badge
        Stop

        I hope it bricks them too - but not in a 'ner ner -- serves you right' way, but in the hope that these devices will be made with more secure software in the future.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        How was XP Embedded ever a "consumer desktop software"????

    2. Anonymous Coward
      FAIL

      I doubt it, for starters I don't think an ATM, running Windows Embedded (which is not end of support) would be connect to the internet and set to download automatic updates.

      Still facts, who needs them.

      1. David Barrett

        Welcome to the internet where the facts are made up and it doesn't matter.

      2. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

        > I don't think an ATM, running Windows Embedded (which is not end of support) would be connect to the internet and set to download automatic updates.

        And what colour is the sky on your planet?

        There are lots of ATMs running off-the-shelf WindowsXP/2000 and most of them are connected to the bank branch LAN which is connected to t'internet. You wouldn't believe how much we saved compared to the old embedded ATMs and all those leased lines.

  2. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Yes I predict it will be exactly as terrible as Y2K!

    So in other words, a complete and utter non event :)

    1. MacroRodent
      Mushroom

      Re: Yes I predict it will be exactly as terrible as Y2K!

      > So in other words, a complete and utter non event :)

      This pretty common attitude pisses me off.

      Y2K was a non-event precisely because serious fixing was done. Sure there was a lot of scare-mongering, but it helped in getting resources to make it a non-event. No, civilization as we know would not have ended without Y2K fixing, but there would been a lot more inconvenience and confusion, probably also loss of life.

      Very frustrating for the programmers and managers involved: Had there been problems, they would have been blamed, and now that there were no problems, they are ridiculed.

      1. John Tserkezis

        Re: Yes I predict it will be exactly as terrible as Y2K!

        "Y2K was a non-event precisely because serious fixing was done."

        What? You mean slap a sticker on it that says "Warning: This device is not Y2K compliant". Been there done that. I shook my head the entire time, but hey, it's a paying job.

        1. MacroRodent

          Re: Yes I predict it will be exactly as terrible as Y2K!

          Sorry to hear you had such a boring Y2K. Where I worked, programs were actually fixed, and vendor patches applied. Not a sticker in sight.

          1. launcap Silver badge
            Happy

            Re: Yes I predict it will be exactly as terrible as Y2K!

            >Sorry to hear you had such a boring Y2K. Where I worked, programs

            >were actually fixed, and vendor patches applied. Not a sticker in sight.

            Likewise. And then the next set of vendor patches applied as the previous set had broken another facet of y2k compatibility..

            I'm looking at you Microsoft! Strangely enough, all the unix machines we were patching were much less hassle!

        2. Stuart Castle Silver badge

          Re: Yes I predict it will be exactly as terrible as Y2K!

          You are forgetting the tens of thousands of computer systems that were audited, found to faulty, then patched. Which, in the case of bespoke systems, is a little more than just applying the latest patch, update or service pack from the vendor. I know of a few cases where to alter a system, due to it being written in an archaic language like Cobol, they had to pay a programmer to come out of retirement to do it. Even where systems did have a ready made update, any company with a proper change procedure would still have had to ensure that any patch for mission critical systems is thoroughly tested before deployment.

          Another way to look at it.

          The Airlines and Banks were amongst the first adopters of computer technology. This, combined with a slight reluctance to change core systems and processes mean that companies in both industries have a *lot* of computers and software that is old (some dating back to the 70s). That nice, pretty GUI the check in desk person sees when you check in to the airport probably sends keypresses back to the mainframe (which is still running the original software), and "scrapes" the output..

          Now, did you see any Airline disasters during y2k? No? How about Finance? Did any major banks collapse during Y2K? Did any major economies collapse as their currency sunk to a point where you'd need a mortgage to buy a packet of sausages? No?

          Why not? Because tens of thousands of people tested these systems to ensure that there would be no problem, and tens of thousands of programmes wrote updates to ensure it wouldn't happen.

          We came of relatively lightly (only a couple of old, easily replaced, systems failed our Y2K compliance test, but even we only found that out after testing thousands of items.

          1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

            Re: Yes I predict it will be exactly as terrible as Y2K!

            Banks mostly dealt with Y2K years before. Sold a 25year mortgage in 1980? Guess when it became due!

            Very few avionics systems need to know the date and don't store it as time_t.

            1. billdehaan
              Alert

              Re: Yes I predict it will be exactly as terrible as Y2K!

              "Banks mostly dealt with Y2K years before".

              Having worked are two schedule one (or tier level one, depending on the local terminology) institutions, with friends in two other schedule one banks, I can call bollocks on this.

              Yes, the mortgage departments were keen on this, and well up on Y2K issues in many cases as far back as 1970. Their mainframes were well prepared.

              Other departments, including treasury, branch management, personal banking, corporate banking, etc. were less so. The invasion of PCs in the 1980s resulted in a shedload of branch-developed apps that conformed to little or no formal standards, and they spread like weeds. And then there were the Unix-based Treasury departments that deployed Y2K non-compliant systems as late as 1992-1993, and in one case, 1996, with the caveat of "don't worry, this will be decommissioned and replaced by 1999, so it doesn't matter".

              Many bank apps were converted decades before Y2K. Many more were converted in the five years running up to Y2K. And there was definitely a forced march effort in the last six months prior to Y2K to replace/scrap non-compliant systems in the banking sector.

          2. proud2bgrumpy
            Facepalm

            Re: Yes I predict it will be exactly as terrible as Y2K!

            :-) COBOL archaic? Well, I guess it probably is - but then COBOL / FORTRAN (and other archaic languages) based systems run pretty much everything you rely on and has done for 50'odd years.

            Because these systems are generally well written in a *clean* language, they don't need the same day-to-day care and attention / life support of a C++ / C# / Java based system with constant patches / fixes / updates. So, I wonder - are there any Java-based mission critical systems out there? Will Java see its 50th birthday? I really doubt it.

        3. SoaG
          Facepalm

          Re: Yes I predict it will be exactly as terrible as Y2K!

          I had to work that night, just in case any of our clients had a major issue.

          Why wasn't my satellite owner/operator employer worried about their own systems?

          They'd gone around a couple months before and told all the old, but critical systems, that it was 1985...

          Could be interesting to see if any of that old kit that nobody even manufactures replacements for is still in use at the end of this year.

      2. jonathanb Silver badge

        Re: Yes I predict it will be exactly as terrible as Y2K!

        But the idea that a washing machine would think, "It's 1st January 1900, I haven't been invented yet, I'd better explode and set the place on fire" was pretty stupid though.

        1. Wensleydale Cheese

          Re: Yes I predict it will be exactly as terrible as Y2K!

          'But the idea that a washing machine would think, "It's 1st January 1900, I haven't been invented yet, I'd better explode and set the place on fire" was pretty stupid though.'

          Maybe, but my 2 year old video recorder refused to record anything by the timer once we got past 31st December 1999. Thereafter if I wanted to record something I had to be there and hit the "record now" button.

          It wasn't a cheap model either.

  3. Ken Y-N
    Go

    Woo hoo! Phishing opportunities galore!

    I expect, indeed I will be disappointed by the lack of foresight by the scammers if it doesn't happen, to see a story on El Reg on the 8th talking about evil redirects and fake popups appearing on XP users' computers mimicking the illustrated message box.

    I also expect El Reg to publish a bunch of pics of the message box on ATMs, traffic signs, supermarket tills etc, etc.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Mushroom

      Re: Woo hoo! Phishing opportunities galore!

      I actually thought that Microsoft's popup did 100% resemble a phishing dialog.

      Things are sure to become quite interesting in the near future.

      All that's left to say is... Yipieee!

      1. Al_21

        Re: Woo hoo! Phishing opportunities galore!

        If I hadn't read this article, I would have got out my arsenal of malware removal tools and sniffed around for ages.

        Even if it mentioned online it's legit - there's no guarantee.

  4. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    huh ?

    But my windows 95 will still work ?

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: huh ?

      Still using Win 2K on a VM. Nice and lightweight, does what I want. Why do I need to upgrade again?

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: huh ?

        We are still using win2k on some of our internal servers. Although the only reason is that no-one actually knows where they physically are so they can be reclaimed, virtualised and upgraded.

        We suspect they may be sat in the server room of a rented building we no longer rent :)

        1. Tezfair

          Re: huh ?

          I'm swapping a W2k for SBS 2011 this weekend. Only reason they are moving is because they are running out of space!!

        2. Luke McCarthy

          Re: huh ?

          Maybe you can triangulate it's location using ping latency.

  5. Gray
    FAIL

    Run. Quickly. Away.

    Sadly, one cannot even say it was nice while it lasted. 'Tis a pity they could neither get it right the first time, nor fix it over the years. Fail.

    Win7 support is ending. Win8/8.1 is confused. Win9 is rumoured. Fail.

    Microsoft panic message. Fail.

    1. GitMeMyShootinIrons

      Re: Run. Quickly. Away.

      'Win7 support is ending'

      Regular support for an OS that is already five years old moves to extended support next year, through to 2020. That's not too bad. I'm sure you'll manage.

      Calm down, dear, support isn't even nearly over.

    2. Ken Hagan Gold badge

      Re: Run. Quickly. Away.

      "Win8/8.1 is confused."

      Only if you haven't read Microsoft's published statements on the matter. Win8.1 is considered a service pack for Win8 and so support for the latter will evaporate in 2016. From the end-user's perspective, since 8.1 *is* almost indistinguishable from 8.0, there's no reason not to install it (when you next have several gigabytes of download allowance per machine to waste).

      "Win9 is rumoured."

      2015 is also rumoured, in the sense that it hasn't happened yet but it would be rather surprising if it didn't. (I suppose there's always the possibility of some Ukrainian teenager shooting an Arch-Duke.)

      1. MJI Silver badge

        Re: Ancient hardware

        Is this the hardware we spent a fortune on 10 years ago? The hardware which has done its job with no issues, which has gained bigger HDDs, more RAM?

        The hardware which when my work PC failed ended up in the office for 1 year, and was the fasted machine in the office despite being built so long ago.

        If old hardware is fast enough why scrap it?

        The killer for me as a home PC was MPEG2 encoding was slow, now a second PC at home.

  6. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    I can hardly wait to

    click on Don't show this message again followed by a click on OK. It is not Microsoft that will kill my Windows XP, it will be Mozilla, Videolan, Adobe and Oracle when they will no longer support their WinXP version for my browser and its much needed plug-ins.

    Windows7 will give me enough time to get used to any non-Microsoft OS. Or I'll just stop using a PC altogether because by that time there will be not much use for it.

  7. Shannon Jacobs
    Holmes

    When you threaten Meetup, it's blackmail...

    Some DDoS scammer has been attacking Meetup, and we properly call that blackmail, but when Microsoft threatens you, it's just good business practices. Does anyone else think there's something wrong in this picture?

    Slightly substantive comments:

    (1) Since Windows XP is quite adequate for my computing needs, I would not have upgraded any machine except for the threats from Microsoft.

    (2) If Microsoft were actually held liable for the damage done by their mistakes (including bad design decisions), then you can be certain they would design their software in an extremely different way.

    (3) I still expect Microsoft to offer some form of XP support. Not because they think it's a good thing or the moral thing or anything along those lines, but just because there's too much money still left on the table.

    1. I ain't Spartacus Gold badge

      Re: When you threaten Meetup, it's blackmail...

      I suggest you learn the actual meaning of the word blackmail.

    2. Captain Scarlet
      Happy

      Re: When you threaten Meetup, it's blackmail...

      1. Windows 3.1 is adequate for most peoples needs, you have a point and click interface and it can run a word processor. You don't have to upgrade you can ignore the messages and continue as normal (The same as any OS, what do you think your crusty old router runs).

      2. Humans make mistakes, computers are designed by humans, etc...

      3. You can still get support by giving MS money, otherwise why would they bother they want you to buy new shiney items.

      1. Trevor_Pott Gold badge

        Re: When you threaten Meetup, it's blackmail...

        1) Windows 3.1 "multitasking" was Metro-class garbage. "Most people" need multitasking. Windows 95, OTOH, is just fine. (Well, OS2 is just fine. It didn't crash all the damned time.) People also need APP SUPPORT. That means Windows XP at a minimum today. Decent browser, VLC, a few other things. That said, if you could load all that up on Windows 95, hey, it'd be more than good enough.

        2) You aren't allowed to make mistakes, peon. There are an unlimited number of people waiting to take your job. Get back to work, work doubly hard and I'll fire your ass at will anyways.

        3) No, I can't get support by giving MS money. They have minimum numbers of systems and the floor price is extortionate. I'd gladly pay MS the cost of the OS all over again to get another 3 years. Hell, if MS want me to pay them $150/seat every three years to keep XP going forever, I'd gladly do it.

        I don't think anyone has an objection in the slightest to paying MS a fair price for ongoing maintenance. MS doesn't offer maintenance to everyone and what they do offer is not remotely "fair".

        I don't care how much Microsoft desperately want me to buy Windows 8.1 and use Azure for all things. It isn't going to fucking happen.

        1. Captain Scarlet

          Re: When you threaten Meetup, it's blackmail...

          1) Ah you need MultiTOS then, just write whatever is missing

          2) Yes I am allowed to make mistakes, what am I supposed to do when testing my work fire myself for every typo?

          3) I stand corrected there, <Insert Whitty Comeback>

  8. Christian Berger

    They surely will bring out XP 2.0, won't they?

    I mean not bringing out a sensible upgrade option which runs on the same hardware, supporting the same software, that would be like betraying their customers. Microsoft is such a big and trusted partner, they would never do that, would they?

    Microsoft doesn't care about "Gold Partners" or anything. Those are just marketing terms. All they want is you to give them money. I know that may sound harsh to you, but Microsoft is a commercial company, they need to make money, that's their priority.

    If you don't like that game, stop playing it. Don't switch from XP to Windows 8.1, but look into getting replacements for your legacy applications. For those you cannot find replacements for, get an Application server, Wine or a virtualized XP machine with tightly controlled IO.

    1. John Tserkezis

      Re: They surely will bring out XP 2.0, won't they?

      "They surely will bring out XP 2.0, won't they?"

      They did. It was called Vista. Remeber how great that turned out?

  9. Richard Jones 1
    FAIL

    I Had To Turn Off 'Update'

    My portable became unusable because the windows update snagware was hogging all disk capacity 'checking'. I realised it was bent, when it had read 200% of the total disk capacity. Stopped the crap and suddenly it was like running a new, as in brand new PC a real Woohoo.

    I did try the Fixit which promptly failed reporting that it was useless and could only give up. Well done Microsilly.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: I Had To Turn Off 'Update'

      Have an upvote. I had to turn it off on my wife's PC - all she does is play age of empires/mythology and some basic browsing on it (no financials etc).

      Auto-update was truly cacking it up. Turned it off and hey presto, runs like baby snot off a hot shovel.

  10. Jamie Jones Silver badge
    WTF?

    Huh?

    "Credit where it's due: Microsoft is making the effort. It's also forged struck up "a partnership with Laplink to make available a new free tool, allowing individuals to easily copy files and settings from a Windows XP PC to a device running Windows 7 or newer.""

    In other words, Microsoft is making the effort to sell more Microsoft products.

    How is that creditable?

    In fact, if the software was fit for purpose when realeased, people would be able to use it indefinitely - most sensible people don't trade in their old TV just because there in a newer one with better features - as long as the features their current TV has are all they require.

    1. GitMeMyShootinIrons

      Re: Huh?

      "most sensible people don't trade in their old TV just because there is a newer one with better features"

      Really? You're on the wrong website for comments like that. There isn't anyone that sensible here. 3D TV anyone....?

    2. Wensleydale Cheese

      Re: Huh?

      "most sensible people don't trade in their old TV just because there in a newer one with better features - as long as the features their current TV has are all they require."

      I've been quite happy with my analogue Sony* Trinitron, but at the moment it is under threat from an "upgrade" to a digital-only signal. I really don't watch TV often enough to warrant lashing out on a fancy new TV.

      * bought before before Sony did their silly trick with rootkits on CDs, in case you wonder

      1. MJI Silver badge

        Re: Huh?

        Well my previous FD Trinitron had a digital tuner, but I moved to HD & LCD when the tube just started to lose brightness in the corner.

        None of my TVs have had root kits on them, the newest runs Linux

  11. Adam Foxton

    Design issue with that website

    These people are still using XP. Why take them to a black-and-blue flat website with a Windows logo that barely resembles the one they're familiar with?

    I wouldnt trust this as far as I could throw it.

    1. MJI Silver badge

      Re: Design issue with that website

      I showed my wife that site, she thought it was a scam site as well.

      At least try to make it look like windows.

  12. Daniel Voyce

    That message will appear on all XP desktops.....

    ..... that have automatic updates enabled (surely?)

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: That message will appear on all XP desktops.....

      Probably a phone home feature or an automated date triggered popup added to XP already pushed in one of the many updates since 2001. (maybe even added back in 2001 - "always be closing" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y-AXTx4PcKI) Remember Microsoft own your computer (COFEE), you are are merely providing it with electricity and maybe a network connection..

    2. David Barrett

      Re: That message will appear on all XP desktops.....

      If you don't have automatic updates enabled anyway then the end of support probably isn't going to affect you...

  13. king of foo

    so... friends and relatives...

    I've been putting this off for a while but it's decision time...

    Win 7.

    Win 8.1

    Chromium/chrome os.

    Mint.

    Slackware.

    Ubuntu.

    Fedora.

    Android.

    I'm actually tempted by android.

    1. Andus McCoatover
      Windows

      Re: so... friends and relatives...

      Not really decision time. Stick one (or more) of those on your list, and dual (tripe...) boot.

      Just alter the boot order as you get more comfy.

      (I'm assuming dual-booting with Android is possible...)

    2. frank ly

      Re: so... friends and relatives...

      I installed Linux (Mint 13 LTS) last May as dual boot with Win7 and spent 3-4 weeks getting used to it. After that, I used Win7 less and less and then got rid of it by fitting my laptop with a shiny new 60GB SSD and Linux Mint. I never looked back since then. I also put the same Linux on my old desktop, old laptop and old netbook. There is a learning curve and a swearing curve but I'd recommend it.

      Before you try it, read the Linux Mint forums and other forums to get an idea of the problems that people have and how they work around them.

      1. This post has been deleted by its author

      2. Fun Fun

        Re: so... friends and relatives...

        I have helped friends and relatives move from XP to Linux Mint 13 Cinnamon. Mint has changed their sluggish and slow XPs to snappy sleek looking machines. All of them have liked the change, and the grandmother generation seems to love Cinnamon. A little advice here and there, and thats about it.

        The only negative side is one Canon printer that refused co-operation.

        You do not need to spend an extra dime to turn those "old" XP desktops/laptops to good looking, reasonably fast and easy to maintain Mint machines.

    3. feanor

      Re: so... friends and relatives...

      Mint. with the Cinnamon desktop. 8.1 lasted approximately 10 minutes on my new laptop before I got ticked off with it and installed Mint straight over the top.

      The thought of never paying MS another penny is oddly pleasing.

  14. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    WHY?

    Why would they time this to happen on a Saturday? When most proper support is unavailable.

    I have a feeling Monday morning will be even busier than normal just telling people to "tick the box and click ok"... and "don't panic".

    Thursday would've been my preferred day of choice - 2 days to deal with the phone calls for professionals, but near enough to the weekend for the "friends and family support"

  15. Stephen Channell
    Facepalm

    desktop hardening service pack would be good

    If you're never going to update the OS, you might as.well lock it down and prevent all changes in the way they did for "windows for warships".. With no new OS, driver, exe,dll or hardware changed allowed there would be no worries about virus and no need for "MS support". It wouldn't be difficult either:one final NTFS filter blocking exe write or network/USB load.

    1. Roland6 Silver badge

      Re: desktop hardening service pack would be good

      But that would mean bringing back SteadyState which Ms end gamed a while back now...

      However, I note it is still available from some download sites that didn't simply link to MS...

  16. Anonymous Coward
    Pint

    If only MSFT had a 'never show again' checkbox for Metro on the desktop

  17. JDX Gold badge

    the potential to confuse less-than-technical users

    >>On the downside, both the dialog and site also look like they have the potential to confuse less-than-technical users

    Computers generally have this effect on less-than-technical-users. There is no way to warn such a person "you need to update your OS" without risking confusion, because they don't know what terms like "operating system" or "Windows" mean.

    My mother falls into this category so I'll wait with interest to see if she asks me about it.

    But - won't this functionality rely on you having auto-update turned on in the first place?

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: the potential to confuse less-than-technical users

      A year ago I installed a proper anti-virus on an elderly lady's XP computer (almost typed 'box'! Glad I didn't) and found she was still on SP2. I couldn't hang about, but I started SP3 downloading via WU. Went back a few days ago to add another 12 months AV subscription and found she was <b>still</b> on SP2! It had downloaded but wasn't installed. So I sat there while this machine with just 512M RAM completed updating to SP3, and on reboot was going to verify the further 100 - 200 updates were going to be offered when I saw AU was already downloading the first. I don't think I ever installed SP3 other than manually, so don't know, but suspect you get asked if you want to install it despite AU being enabled to do so without asking. The rest should install without the opportunity for clicking 'cancel', though it is kind of hard to see what the point is now anyway!

      She is going to get a new laptop; I just hope she gets one with Windows 7 rather than 8.1! With Classic Start Menu either one's Start Menu can be made to look like XP, but beyond that 7 is the only one of the two sufficiently similar she won't be so confused that she might as well give up on computers.

      (Cue suggestions to install Mint, as though switching her to something in which <b>everything</b> is different makes sense on <b>this</b> planet).

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: the potential to confuse less-than-technical users

        Mint is nice, but a distro called LXLE might be better for the unwary XP orphan. Essentially it's a Lubuntu-remix (that's Ubuntu with an simple LXDE interface) made even simpler and offering you a choice between four interface paradigms, one of which is very close to XP. (Don't worry aabouy Unity!) It's also based on Long-Term Support fundamentals, and is stripped down to accommodate as much old hardware as possible. So it is backed by Debian and can access the enormous repositories of applications available as a result. Worth taking a look... preferably in April.

    2. 's water music

      Re: the potential to confuse less-than-technical users

      Computers generally have this effect on less-than-technical-users. There is no way to warn such a person "you need to update your OS" without risking confusion, because they don't know what terms like "operating system" or "Windows" mean.

      <dialogue>

      <Wintitle>Shit's about to get real</Wintitle>

      <body>

      <icon>VBCritical</icon>

      <text>Call your son/daughter/cousin/neighbour, you know, the one who sorts out your computer. They need to look into this for you./crlf/crlf And lay of the warez and pr0n sites until this is sorted.</text>

      <button>&Ok</button>

      </body>

      </dialogue>

  18. lansalot

    lovely..

    I hope there's a group policy setting we can use to disable that warning. I bet there's a lot of helpdesks gonna get a lot of calls from worried users if not.

    Yep, we do still have a couple hundred on XP, the tens of thousands are on win7 - yay for legacy compatibility (and yes, this is being addressed).

    1. JDX Gold badge

      Re: lovely..

      Come on, it's MS. There's bound to be such a setting for enterprise.

  19. Jess

    ... rely on you having auto-update turned on in the first place?

    But if you don't do updates, then dropping support would make no difference anyway.

  20. Tezfair
    Facepalm

    MS worried?

    This smacks of desperation to get people to move off. Given the amount of screen coverage on the matter across god knows how many tech sites tells me that internally they are in trouble - big style.

    Of all the customers I have on XP, there's only one client with 4 x XPs that I will upgrade, and thats because they use CRM that demands IE9.

    All the rest will fall into a natural upgrade. They are behind good enough firewalls and have enterprise class AV / AS installed so I believe the risks are minimam. After all, I never install any updates until a few weeks after they are released incase there's an issue.

  21. Arnold Lieberman

    End of support, not end of life!

    Why the panic people, just because XP falls off of support in April does not mean it can't be used... for anyone with decent firewall/AV and who doesn't surf on the darker side of the net it's going to be perfectly fine. Seems M$ can't win whatever it does...

    Remind me, how long is the support cycle for $linux_of_choice? Are there ANY 13 year old linux distributions receiving security updates and patches from their creators now? And no, I don't believe it's possible to do an in-place upgrade from one to a current distribution any more easily than the loops that have to be jumped through getting XP upgraded to 8.1.

    1. sisk

      Re: End of support, not end of life!

      Remind me, how long is the support cycle for $linux_of_choice? Are there ANY 13 year old linux distributions receiving security updates and patches from their creators now?

      No regular Linux user would let their machine get that out of date. That's the advantage of having a more technically minded user base. You do have a point though.

      And no, I don't believe it's possible to do an in-place upgrade from one to a current distribution any more easily than the loops that have to be jumped through getting XP upgraded to 8.1.

      I've never done an upgrade on one quite that far out of date, but I've jumped from Sarge (3.1) to Squeeze (6) on Debian (the machine in question had been in storage for several years). All it took was:

      su

      Password:

      apt-get dist-upgrade

      1. Anonymous Bullard

        Re: End of support, not end of life!

        Yep. Most mainstream Linux distros can be upgraded with a single command, or just clicking on "upgrade" when there's a new version available.

        It takes about an hour or so (depending on network speed), no cd/dvd, can continue using it, a single reboot, and virtually all installed software and settings are kept.

        There are some distros, such as Arch Linux, that use a "rolling-release" system - where the auto-updates just gradually upgrades through the major versions (which are just "snapshots").

        Compare that to the disgraceful Windows 8 -> 8.1 "patch".

    2. feanor

      Re: End of support, not end of life!

      Remind me, how much does it cost each time to upgrade your linux distro of choice. Oh yes, nothing.

      What you beleive is irrelevant - In place upgrade is perfectly possible, I've done this lots of times, but hey don't let lack of knowledge prevent you from spreading fud.

  22. Crisp

    Windows XP

    Windows XP is one of those items that I categorise with the Model T Ford, rotary dial Bakelite phones, 56K modem handshaking noises, and radios that needed the valves to warm up before you could listen to anything.,

  23. Tannin
    Megaphone

    Lies: they can't run 8.1

    They are going to tell users on older XP-based systems to "Update to Windows 8.1". Really?

    No, I'm not saying that it's unreasonable to expect users to switch to the worst Windows user interface of all time. (Well, it is unreasonable, of course, but it is also easily fixed with Classic Shell or the alternative of your choice, plus a bit of reconfiguration to do the basic things you have to do with Win 8.x to stop it doing things that most users don't understand and can't cope with: switching off that scary sudden death delete, for example, by adjusting the properties of the recycle bin.)

    No, the unreasonable part is that, for no good reason and without any warning from

    MS, Windows 8.1 won't install or run on a huge stack of machines with only moderately old and still perfectly capable processors, including multi-core AMD Athlon 64 X2 and Opteron 185 units, and a very large number of quite recent Intel Core 2 Duo systems. (Typically with the Intel parts it is the motherboard chipset Windows 8.1 objects to rather than the CPU, but this is of no consequence - either way, the user is screwed.)

    There was no good reason for this unannounced change - note that Windows 7 and Windows 8.0 both work perfectly on these systems - and this faces XP users with having to scratch around and find an unsold copy of Windows 8.0 and with the end-of-support nightmare set to come straight back at them as early as next year - yes, Win 8.0 support is set to end in 2015.

    Microsoft's response to this shocker has been mendacious and unhelpful. An MS spokesdroid said “the number of affected processors are extremely small, since this instruction has been supported for greater than 10 years”. This is simply not so: the very first CPUs with support for the new instruction shipped that far back, but it was neither used by any software nor common. Mainstream, everyday mass-market CPUs and chipsets did not support CMPXCHG16b for years after that, and a vast number of people with good quality, perfectly capable hardware only a few years old have been shafted by the 8.1 schmozzle.

    Their only alternatives, short of throwing away perfectly good hardware, are to run 32-bit 8.1 (not really an alternative at all) or else the elderly Windows 7. This is simply not good enough, Microsoft.

    1. Geoffrey W

      Re: Lies: they can't run 8.1

      <QUOTE>This is simply not good enough, Microsoft.</QUOTE>

      So what would be good enough? Do what no other major software company has ever done, or will ever do, and continue to support an ancient operating system, for free, until all the users or their computers have died, or they finally decide to get a new fangled computer? They can either ignore the problem or inform XP users that the operating system support is expiring. They are informing the users.

      I suppose one option would be to offer an affordable upgrade path for XP users, say 50$/40UKP, and I will accept this is something they aren't doing but could do. But even that wont really help those on slow older computers. Its the users choice and if they refuse to budge then Microsoft can surely do no more than they are doing. Surely you don't expect them to produce a new OS that can run on ancient kit?

      1. Tannin

        Re: Lies: they can't run 8.1

        The thing that is "not good enough", as should be perfectly clear to anyone who has actually read my post rather than just glanced at the headline, isn't the end of support for XP, it's Microsoft's gall in offering to "upgrade" vast numbers of users to a product which ought to and easily could but doesn't install or run on their (perfectly capable) hardware.Or, if want to defend their foolish and inexplicable decision to casually make Windows 8.1 incompatible with lots and lots of surprisingly modern systems, their failure to provide any decent support life for Windows 8.0, which is set to end support as soon as next year.

        Note that - as set out above - we are not talking about ancient kit here; we are talking about late-model multi-core systems with performance more than sufficient to run any current operating system at good speed - Core 2 Duos and multi-core Athlons and the like.

        1. Geoffrey W

          Re: Lies: they can't run 8.1

          Sorry. I admit I didn't read all your post first. I haven't tried installing 8.1 on older computers yet but if what you say is correct then I agree with you; that really is not good enough. Actually, without knowing what they were thinking, it seems pretty dumb.

  24. McHack
    WTF?

    Good Riddance?

    I have a few laptops with XP, dual-boot with Debian Linux. No-HDD refurbs but the COAs were on the cases, so I eBayed OEM/restore CDs of the versions (with clean unused COAs), installed with the case COAs. Only way I was ever going to get Win again after I refused to buy it full price for a blank machine and made myself use Debian instead. It was a hedge, some sites might still be needing IE, some software needing Win.

    Nowadays, I fire up my XP partitions several times a year. To update the installs. Anti-virus, perhaps XP itself, assorted products like Adobe things and LibreOffice. That's really all I do with XP anymore, update the installs.

    1. Should I now just delete the XP? I'll miss the warm fuzzy feeling of the three minute startup lockup followed by manually cycling the dial-up connection up and down several times before multiple products give up phoning home for alleged update checks followed by presumed update/upgrade downloads that I rather do overnight as they take HOURS, but I'll survive. But the installs are fully patched, which would take a DSL day from a fresh install to download.

    2. What do I do with the unused XP COAs? Will M$ still acknowledge new installs?

    1. Roland6 Silver badge

      Re: Good Riddance?

      >Should I now just delete the XP?

      Depends on why you've kept XP. Personally, I'd be tempted to virtualise it and use it to contain a suite of tools that permit me to access legacy work etc.as and when necessary.

      >unused XP COAs?

      MS have made statements that they will honour the XP EULA, which doesn't have a termination date.

      However, given the fun and games I had reactivating an XP system just after the launch of Win8, don't expect all the available methods to work.

  25. Bladeforce

    FUD, FUD

    FUUUUD!!!! We all love FUD at Microsoft it helps us, it binds our world together, it keeps the shareholders happy at the expense of our users, ooooh FUD, FUD, FUUUUUD!!!

  26. Annihilator
    Meh

    How MS could really help

    I've installed Win 7 on two relatives machines from some re-claimed licences (machines that have since moved to Win 8 or decommissioned) and have got at least two more to go. If MS wanted to really help they could make installing an up-to-date version of Win 7 a 1-2 hour process instead of the 1-2 day process it currently is. At last count, it takes 8-10 update cycles to bring it up to full patch, 4 of which occur before SP1 even presents itself as an option, and many of them take a few force checks of Windows Update before it thinks there are any new ones to offer.

    Does anyone know of a reasonably quicker way to do this?

    1. Tannin

      Re: How MS could really help

      Annihilator says: "they could make installing an up-to-date version of Win 7 a 1-2 hour process instead of the 1-2 day process it currently is. At last count, it takes 8-10 update cycles to bring it up to full patch, 4 of which occur before SP1 even presents itself as an option..... Does anyone know of a reasonably quicker way to do this?"

      Yes. First, it is possible to create an up-to-date slipstream install disc which includes all of the service packs and updates, but the procedure is arcane, poorly documented, inflexible, and time consuming. If you haven't already put the hard work into learning how to do this, it's not worth the time it would take you to set it up unless you are doing a very large number of near-identical machines. (It's different for people who have done it a few times before and memorised the arcana, of course. An expert at this would probably do it even for a half-dozen machines. I wouldn't consider it for less than about 50 identical systems - too much like hard work.)

      Secondly, and much more usefully, you can just download the service packs in stand-alone installer form from Microsoft. (Search for something like "windows 7 service pack standalone installer".) Burn them to CD or DVD or put them on a memory stick. Install Win 7 as usual, apply the service packs from the DVD, and only then start Windows Update. You will still have 120-odd more recent updates to download and install, but it's still a huge improvement.

      (The same applies to 2000, XP and Vista, of course, but one hopes you are not so unfortunate as to have to work on Vista systems.)

      PS: Why anyone would downvote you for asking an honest and perfectly sensible question, I have no idea. There is no accounting for some people.

      1. Steven Raith

        Re: How MS could really help

        Tannin is quite correct - getting the SP1 install for Win7 32 and 64bit on some portable storage is a major timesaver - although even then, getting all updates over a fast internet connection will take a solid three hours and about three reboots (more if you go for optional updates like .Net etc)

        As an aside, Vista will, in many cases (from OEM builds - Acer, Dell etc) fail to install the standalone service packs without having all previous updates installed in the Usual Fashion - so if you can't get a Vista Service Pack to install, just go through the updates normally, rather than trying to 'troubleshoot' it - I've never managed to get one of those machines to take the SP redist without having the preceding updates on it (Which sort of defeats the object, I know....).

        HTH

        Steven R

      2. Annihilator
        Happy

        Re: How MS could really help

        Thanks Tannin - I've done an SP3 slip-stream on XP in the past, for some reason I thought Win 7 didn't let you do that.

        The stand-alone installer though, thanks! 1.9GB ISO covers all architectures and 32/64 bit (have had one had to do a 32-bit version due to old drivers). I assumed it wouldn't exist, given the number of updates it makes you go through before offering that in Windows Update.

        http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=5842 is the link.

    2. billdehaan

      Re: How MS could really help

      "Does anyone know of a reasonably quicker way to do this?"

      I'm currently upgrading one XP box to Win7 by doing a clean Win7 install on another partition and alternating between XP and Win7 for a while. The actual Win7 installation, from DVD disk, probably took about an hour or so. Unlike XP and previous versions of Windows, it was nice enough to just ask me all the questions upfront, then let me go off by myself.

      When I came back two hours later, the PC was at the Win7 login prompt. That's a welcome change to coming back and finding the install was stalled at the 3% mark, waiting for me to answer a yes/no question before proceeding, as in other Windows. So while I can't say what the clock time of the installation was, the user time involved was probably about 20-30 minutes. This was a new Windows 7 Home Premium DVD, which included SP1.

      Once installed, I had to download motherboard drivers from Gigabyte. Despite the Win7 Advisor Tool saying none were needed, in fact my onboard networking didn't function properly, and my onboard video resolution maxxed out at 800x600 rather than 1920x1080. So, add 80MB of driver downloads (done from XP, obviously). With that out of the way, Win7 with SP1 was installed, and promptly ran Windows Update, which pulled down 300MB of fixes; another 30-40 minutes for that. One reboot later, and I had a current Win7 box, albeit with no installed applications.

      My recommendation would be to get a DVD of the Win7 installation you're using (Home Premium, Pro, whatever) with SP1 included. Since you already have the licence, it's just a question of the media.

      As for comparative install times, I had two XP boxes. One, I upgraded to Ubuntu 12.04. That was chosen after playing with Ubuntu 13.10, XUbuntu 12.04, Mint 16 KDE, and Mint 16 Cinnamon (reasoning for choosing Ubuntu available on request). While Ubuntu was a joy to install compared to my previous forays into Linux installs circa 1999-2003, it still had a number of issues that needed addressing (like Samba, and messing with fstab) that didn't exactly make it a one hour upgrade, either.

      To their credit, MS is now releasing a free XP to Win7 upgrade tool. Of course, it's to migrate between computers, not to upgrade an existing computer, but for those who are in the market for a new machine, it's better than nothing.

  27. Elmer Phud

    scare tactics?

    Are they really going to drop the lot, in one go?

    Or will they be listening to companies who have yet to get round to changing?

    Had a call from a friend about the pop-up.

    I told him not to panic yet -- it's not as if the shops won't be discounting like mad to flog new kit.

  28. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Not the end of XP if you've got the cash!

    Just pay Microsoft two millon dollars and they keep those patches rolling off the production line, thats what our large Australian bank is doing. XP for us for a few more years me thinks!

    1. Matthew 3

      Re: Not the end of XP if you've got the cash!

      Methinks there may be a (black) market to sell on those privately-purchased patches to all those other folks who want to keep the old XP boxes whirring.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Not the end of XP if you've got the cash!

        "Methinks there may be a (black) market to sell on those privately-purchased patches to all those other folks who want to keep the old XP boxes whirring."

        I thought that, though by the same token would have assumed the same thing would have happened on NT4. I know at least some (if not all) British banks still have some of those tucked away somewhere.

        From what I remember, an NT4 machine controlled the recently decommissioned IRIS scanners (though still in place at some of the Heathrow terminals)

  29. Mage Silver badge

    Never before?

    Win 2.0

    Win 286

    Win 386

    Win 3.0

    Win 3.1

    Win 3.11

    MS OS/2 (Yes this non-IBM version existed about 1989)

    WFWG 3.11

    Win 4.0 (Chinese?)

    NT 3.1

    NT 3.5

    Win 95

    NT 3.51

    Win 95b

    Win 98

    NT 4.0 Workstation, Server, Enterprise server, PPC, x85, MIPS, Alpha and Alpha64 versions

    Win 98 SE

    Win ME

    Win 2000

    Win 2000 Advanced Server

    Win XP workstation 64 bit NOT for x86 but Itanium: Killed LONG ago, No Support now I think.

    When does Server 2003 support end? (Basically Server version of XP)

    Anyway end of support isn't a big deal behind a physical firewall, with most services off and noscript etc on Firefox and very few web plugins, no Auto run on anything etc.

    Even less of a deal for something with no Internet.

    I still have machines with DOS, Win98 and Win2K for dedicated applications.

    1. Wensleydale Cheese

      Re: Never before?

      "When does Server 2003 support end? (Basically Server version of XP)"

      14th July 2015.

      See the bottom of this page:

      http://support.microsoft.com/lifecycle/?p1=3198

  30. Robert Harrison

    XP Activation

    The real question is how long until the XP activation servers are switched off? For those of us who activate virtual XP instances occasionally for testing environments and the like.

    1. Matthew 3

      Re: XP Activation

      Does the 'activate by phone' option still work? If it does I bet that goes first.

    2. Anonymous C0ward

      Re: XP Activation

      Use the volume edition with a pilfered-but-genuine key.

  31. earl grey
    Flame

    and yet XP still has north of 29% of the PC market

    And the software they are giving away to move files is crap/old version. All it does is move files. You will still have to re-install all your applications and a Win7 license and disc (should you be able to find one) will set you back a pretty pence. With no real upgrade path from XP to Win7 and most folks not wanting anything that looks like win8 except on a fondleslab, MS has screwed the pooch; and waiting for a new opportunity to screw their user base. How many years have they had to come out with a smooth migration tool? how many? yeah, still don't have one. fuskers.

  32. sisk

    Unpaid domestic sysadmin duties??

    Forget it. I told all my family years ago that if it takes me more than 5 minutes they can pay me like anyone else would or they can take it somewhere else.

    A few of them thought it rude of me at first, till I started asking them to do things related to their professions for me. Funny how quickly someone understands your position when you do that. The only ones left who get gratis computer support are my wife and kids.

  33. Wobbly

    I did a Windows update and refused to install this update on my PC!

  34. MJI Silver badge

    Useless test

    Crashes on both PCs here!

This topic is closed for new posts.

Other stories you might like