back to article My smelly Valentine: Europe's perfumers wake to V-Day nightmare

A number of key ingredients used in perfume brands could soon be banned or restricted in the European Union, following health concerns about some of the compounds used in well-known fragrances including Chanel No 5. Brussels officials recommended on Thursday that three substances found in woody scents, including the oak and …

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  1. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Not the first time

    In the past cosmetics have included atropine, antimony and arsenic.

    It's strange how there are people out there who distrust doctors, but if they think it'll make them more attractive they'll plaster themselves in stuff made by people with no medical or scientific qualifications.

    1. Grease Monkey Silver badge

      Re: Not the first time

      You forgot lead.

      1. JimmyPage Silver badge

        Re: Not the first time

        and belladonna

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Not the first time

          The plant is atropa belladonna, which may explain why I didn't mention it twice.

          OK, there are other alkaloids in belladonna, but it was atropine that was used to "brighten the eyes".

    2. Oliver Mayes

      Re: Not the first time

      Don't forget those old Radium cosmetics, for that 'healthy' glow.

    3. Frankee Llonnygog

      Re: Not the first time

      And botulism

    4. Tom 13

      Re: Not the first time

      Actually these days you'll find a fair number of PhD chemists working for cosmetics manufacturers, especially in the R&D departments. Maybe because of precisely those past issues.

      Not a big user of them myself, but at least I know a smidgen about the industry.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Not the first time

        I'm sure you're right, but isn't it the case that the substances proposed to be controlled were all introduced in the pre-PhD days?

  2. Irongut

    100 reported cases of contact sensitisation

    Out of how many people using products containing these extracts?

    1. frank ly

      Re: 100 reported cases of contact sensitisation

      ... and over what period of time and how are they clustered over time? These products have been used for many years but perhaps only lately have become 'mass-market' (or more affordable by most). Could it be a peanut allergy situation?

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: 100 reported cases of contact sensitisation

      ... yet the EU and now the UK allow raw Nickel to be used in coinage? The current proportion of sensitized adults is about 10%, its lifelong and can affect anyone after a certain body-burden of exposure.

      http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-22956874

      1. This post has been deleted by its author

    3. Dazed and Confused

      Re: 100 reported cases of contact sensitisation

      Hey, I'm contact sensitive chocolate, but the wife would kill me if I suggested getting that band as a dangerous ingredient.

      1. Denarius
        Headmaster

        Re: 100 reported cases of contact sensitisation

        @Dazed and Confused: Would not a chocolate band just melt off ? Probably worth banning.

  3. bigtimehustler

    100 is an extremely low number, especially seeing a channel number 5 is listed as a possible product, one of the most widely sold perfumes in the world. You will always find someone allergic to everything, how about we start banning cheese next, followed closely by nuts.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      "how about we start banning cheese next, followed closely by nuts."

      And... and... Zoo animals with undesirable DNA!

      1. Psyx

        "how about we start banning cheese next"

        Lots of cheese types are already banned in the States.

        Probably for tasting like cheese.

      2. John Tserkezis

        "And... and... Zoo animals with undesirable DNA!"

        And that's only a small step away from seeding out undesirable DNA in humans.

        You do remember what happened the last time they tried that?

        It appears GovCo has a short memory.

        1. Francis Boyle Silver badge

          Animal husbandry = Hitler

          Seriously?

    2. This post has been deleted by its author

      1. John H Woods Silver badge

        Re: "banning cheese next, followed closely by nuts."

        Food has to include a nut warning, and this has saved lives.

        Has it though? Everything has a nut warning on it. Could have been a good idea but the warnings are so ubiquitious that they are just noise - like Website cookie warnings have become.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: "banning cheese next, followed closely by nuts."

          Not everything. Though may contain nuts is widespread. Presumably those allergic to nuts don't eat stuff with warnings on rather than take their chances.

          1. Nigel 11

            Re: "banning cheese next, followed closely by nuts."

            "May contain nuts" means that it might contain a stray nut or fragment from another production line in the same factory. The allergic consumer knows whether that could mean rapid death. With a less serious allergy he'll probably chance "may" whereas plain "contains nuts" is a definite no-no.

            The only really silly one is seeing "may contain nuts" on packets of nuts! (Though thinking about it, perhaps they mean "may contain other sorts of nuts"?

            Glad my allergies lie elsewhere, and I can eat all the nuts I like.

          2. Pete Spicer

            Re: "banning cheese next, followed closely by nuts."

            I've seen *packets of nuts* with 'contains nuts' on it. Seriously, what is this world coming to?

            1. poohbear

              Re: "banning cheese next, followed closely by nuts."

              What about the instructions on said packets: 1. Open packet. 2. Eat nuts.

            2. Mpeler
              Mushroom

              Re: "banning cheese next, followed closely by nuts."

              What they really should do is place signs at all entrances to Brussels (hey, why not Belgium) and Strasbourg saying "Caution: Contains Nuts". Those nuts (EU bureautwits) are the real problem....

        2. John Gamble

          Re: "banning cheese next, followed closely by nuts."

          Has it though? Everything has a nut warning on it. Could have been a good idea but the warnings are so ubiquitious that they are just noise - like Website cookie warnings have become.

          Noise to you, perhaps. Important information to me.

          1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

            Re: "banning cheese next, followed closely by nuts."

            >Noise to you, perhaps. Important information to me.

            What about if every single food item a supermarket sells lists "may contain nuts" - after all you can't be too careful - what use is then?

            It's like the "this facility contains substances cause cancer" warnings you get in california. Since they included laser printer toner and tippex on the list, every single shop and office has the warning posted - so it's completely useless when you are entering a chemical plant

            1. John Gamble

              Re: "banning cheese next, followed closely by nuts."

              "What about if every single food item a supermarket sells lists "may contain nuts"..."

              So you use fear-mongering to object to hypothetical fear-mongering? It doesn't work that way -- oddly enough, the "may contain nuts" warning tends to occur only on products that may contain nuts.

              Honestly, get a grip.

          2. John H Woods Silver badge

            Re: "banning cheese next, followed closely by nuts."

            John G - I didn't mean to be dismissive of people with nut allergies, it's just that I think they are getting a raw deal - it's just a cop out of food manufacturers to put 'may contain nuts' on almost everything. What you really need is a label that tells you a food is nut free, but I bet nobody would dare ...

        3. John Bailey

          Re: "banning cheese next, followed closely by nuts."

          "Has it though? Everything has a nut warning on it. Could have been a good idea but the warnings are so ubiquitious that they are just noise - like Website cookie warnings have become."

          Which indicates how widespread peanut based products are used in food. Nothing wrong with peanuts.. High in protein.

          Unless of course, you are allergic.

          What were you expecting? after a few years, that peanut allergies would go away, and the warning could be dropped?

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      You don’t know if 100 is extremely low or extremely high.

      Is it 100 out of everybody who used the product or 100 out of a sample of 200 or 1000 or 10,000?

      Without context the 100 figure is useless.

      1. Florida1920
        Coat

        We need to know the sample size in olympic swimming pools.

        The one with speedos in the pocket.

    4. Mark 85

      Ban nuts? Would this mean the most commentards would be banned?

  4. Mike Brown

    I can see the point

    Im very sensitive to certain perfumes, i go into sneezing fits that can last upto an hour. My throat tightens and my eyes stream all becuase someone wants to smell "nice". Its not an allargy i can avoid, like nuts or gluten, as by the time i realise what the person is wearing its far too late.

    1. Aitor 1

      Re: I can see the point

      Me too, and I know more people who have the same problem. So it isn't 100 cases as some ppl want to be.

      Some chemicals are harmful and/or alergenic, and if they are dangerous they should be banned.. for the same reason tobacco has been banned from the workspace in most sensible countries.

      1. Michael H.F. Wilkinson Silver badge

        Re: I can see the point

        Same here. If I walk past perfume stores like the Douglas store close to my favourite book store, I have to hold my breath. I once had to buy a present there, and I really should have been wearing a gas mask. Next time, should it be unavoidable, I am sorely tempted to wear one (do designer gas masks exist?)

        Worse, some department stores place their cosmetics department on the ground floor, near the entrance. I try to avoid these places, and if I have to enter, I walk through it swiftly and without inhaling. Entering a department store with a gas mask is probably an ill-advised manoeuvre, and might lead to overreaction from security bods.

      2. Naughtyhorse

        Re: So it isn't 100 cases

        you are correct.

        it's 2

        now how did that help your position?

      3. Nigel 11

        Re: I can see the point

        Me too.

        I normally put up with it, unless the perfumed one makes any comments about me sneezing my germs in her vicinity, in which case I've been known to tell her what I *really* think of her perfume and her manners!

        1. tony2heads

          allergy to perfumes

          Yup, another sufferer here -some start me sneezing

          One of the (many, many) things I like about my wife is that she never uses it.

          Who the hell ever gave people (well women actually) that the opposite sex would like them to smell of some random collection of plant and animal extracts??

          I suspect that we have the Romans to blame for it

    2. Not That Andrew

      Re: I can see the point

      While not as bad as you, everytime I have to go near certain "ethical" cosmetics chain stores, it sets off my hayfever.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: I can see the point - "ethical" cosmetics chain stores

        Hypocrisy dressed up makes me sneeze, too.

    3. Tom 13

      Re: I can see the point

      Perfumes can irritate* me. Cigarette smoke too. I don't see the point. Label the stuff and you can choose not to buy it. If you do actually need to work with someone who wears it, you should be capable of working it out amicably amongst yourselves.

      *Ironically, the ones most likely to do it are men who bathe in them and call it 'cologne'.

    4. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: I can see the point

      Hah! Talk about a bad date!

    5. Sherrie Ludwig

      Re: I can see the point

      I am actually surprised that people still wear fragrance. Most offices in this area (U.S. Midwest) ban wearing fragrance to avoid issues with worker chemical sensitivities and the general level of complaints (one person's hint of fragrance is the next person's bathed in the stuff).

  5. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Let's ban perfumes outright

    Sorry ladies (and gents) but I am sick of being wedged on a tube or bus next to someone wearing an overly powering array of exotic chemical weaponry - sometimes nearly physically sick. The worst is when a collective waft of some disgusting but expensive chemical mush drifts up the escalators or when trapped in a lift with it.

    Please stop.

    1. Ugotta B. Kiddingme

      Re: Let's ban perfumes outright

      Agreed. Speaking as someone with allergies, it's not the chemicals themselves nearly so much as it is the idiot users who insist on marinating in the stuff

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Let's ban perfumes outright

      I for one prefer being wegded on a bus next to someone with exotic chemical weaponry. The chemical weaponry of the non-exotic, i.e. "natural" kind is often too much to bear.

    3. Naughtyhorse

      Re: Let's ban perfumes outright

      buy a car

  6. Version 1.0 Silver badge

    Alternatives are available

    Personally I like a dab of Talisker behind the ears.

    1. Khaptain Silver badge

      Re: Alternatives are available

      I use the same brand to cleanse my tongue and freshen my throat. I even went to the manufacturing source in order to verify that my product was bona fide.

    2. Michael H.F. Wilkinson Silver badge

      Re: Alternatives are available

      I also prefer my Talisker down the throat. The odd Islay malt is welcome too

    3. Werner McGoole
      Joke

      Re: Alternatives are available

      Tough. I'm allergic to the stuff, so it'll have to be banned I'm afraid!

  7. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Briefly remembered

    a Not The Nine O'Clock news sketch with GRJ saying something like:

    "I've just brushed my teeth with new Gleam. They feel fresh and white ..." (looks at tube) "...and for best results squirt under rim and leave before flushing" (goes green).

  8. Hollerith 1

    No sexier perfume on the planet...

    ...than Chanel No. 5. And it's for grown-up women, not girls. My wife resisted it until one magical day when it was just 'right'. Mmmmmm....

    It will be a sad day when No. 5 is no longer part of a beautiful women's arsenal of allure.

    1. Spoobistle

      Re: No sexier perfume on the planet...

      If you watched Chris Packham's BBC2 programme about animal minds, you will know that Chanel Number 5 is very good for attracting wolves (the 4-legged kind). I'm not sure what this means, except that maybe it's not a good idea to wear it at the zoo.

      1. Hollerith 1

        Re: No sexier perfume on the planet...

        Well, so far, I'd say you are right as far as wolf-attacks go.

  9. Kubla Cant

    I too experience allergic reactions when I use many substances that contain fragrances (though I haven't worn Chanel No. 5, as it doesn't fit my lifestyle). I also find that banging my head against the wall causes discomfort.

    As a result, I abjure both activities, but I don't see why the EU needs to get involved.

  10. Steve Renouf

    No Longer necessary!?!

    Considering that perfume originally came about from having to mask the (what would be a disgusting) BO smell in the days when people only had a bath maybe once a month, it is totally unnecessary in this day & age of good (mostly) personal hygiene.

    1. poohbear

      Re: No Longer necessary!?!

      Let's start in the beginning:

      1. You wash your clothes with perfumed fabric softener.

      2. You wash yourself with perfumed detergent (called soap-free body wash, loaded with nasty chemicals)

      3. You put on perfumed deodorant. (more nasty chemicals)

      4. You put on perfume / cologne / aftershave (more nasty chemicals)

      Which smell exactly is 'you'?

      And you wonder why you get sick, since your millions of years of evolution have never met this toxic cocktail before and does not know how to handle it?

  11. W T Riker

    Are we really worried that "... at least 100 people" have been sensitised to these substances - many of which are natually occuring and these people probably avoid going into the woods or anywhere near oak trees anyway. Just another waste of EU taxpayer money.

  12. JassMan

    The last paragraph says it all

    As they say, this is a MULTI-BILLION euro business, I am sure the regulators will find a way to make an exception. They are politicians after all. Just think of a certain French ex-prime minister and brown envelopes from a major beauty products company. Not saying anything was ever proven, just "nil combustibus pro fumo" ( © Flanders & Swann)

  13. jason 7

    Hmmm guess what I got for a Valentines gift today?

    Some Chanel Aftershave which contains....oak moss extract.

    Lucky I'm not the sensitive type.

  14. Old Handle
    Trollface

    Oh well, that's progress

    I guess they'll have to start work on Chanel N° 6. I hate to think what kind of ingredients they put in the first four.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Oh well, that's progress

      Eventually they'll reach Chanel 9 .....scorchio.

      Tet tet tet, tet tet tet, chris waddle.

  15. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    They ban things and then find the replacements just as bad.

    Parabens were the last thing, then some sort of other preservatives were found to be harmful.

  16. Anonymous Coward
    Mushroom

    I get hay fever in the summer.

    I think they should ban all flowers...you know...just to be safe.

  17. LoPath
    Flame

    I love the smell of napalm in the morning.

  18. FunkyEric

    I'm not allergic to them, but think they're pointless. Lets ban so called "air-fresheners" nasty chemicals to conceal other chemicals.......

  19. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Water treatment

    Years ago I had to negotiate a discharge licence with the water authority. The expert was completely unworried about what we were planning to put in his sewers (so long as we complied with limits): he said his biggest problems were caused by all the unnecessary chemicals in stuff for washing people.

    Our sewage bills would be considerably lower if we could get people to use soap instead of all those gels, lotions and other substances with a viscosity resembling a certain bodily fluid.

  20. Identity

    I foresee

    a lot of business for US based web sites...

  21. Herby

    When in doubt: Ban It!

    Seems to be the phrase of the day. Never mind the consequences or unintended outcomes. The ROHS directives have really done nothing but enrich those who promote ROHS alternatives, many of which are inferior to the original.

    1. jason 7

      Re: When in doubt: Ban It!

      RoHS - Never has a directive contributed so much to early landfill.

      He giveth with one hand...

  22. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    RE. Re. When in doubt: Ban It!

    I second that, just had ANOTHER dv6500 bite the dust because of this problem.

    If you ask me, RoHS, REACH and suchlike are the biggest threat to technological civilization since the 1859 Carrington event.

    Possible solution:- Refit the Brussels headquarters with X-ray portal scanners but use lead free shielding in compliance with RoHS. And watch the problem Darwinate itself :-)

  23. earl grey
    Happy

    Remember, Peanuts are not nuts

    They're good old legumes. Beans; you know, your magical fruit.

    Laundry detergent = stink free

    Deodorant = stink free

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