How friggin awesome is evolution!
See Title.
Hard-as-woodpecker-lips MOUSE GOBBLES live scorpion, LAUGHS off stings to face
Top scientists have discovered grasshopper mice feel no pain when they are stung in the face by scorpions: they simply carry on gobbling up the fearsome poisonous arachnids. Youtube Video CONTENDERS!! ARE YOU REEEEADY?! The mighty mouse, native to the southwestern US, has managed to take the toxin, which is lethal to other …
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Friday 25th October 2013 12:20 GMT Velv
Re: How friggin awesome is evolution!
It can't be evolution - if the poison kills you, then you can't breed in a protection against it, therefore this is 100% proof that evolution does not exist. Protection could only be given by God.
God must have given these mice the protection for a reason. Probably so the scorpions have a natural predatory so that they don't explode in numbers and maintain the balance of life. (oh, wait, natural selection would be, er, evolution at work).
Hey, it's Friday afternoon, nothing like a bit of trolling to wile away an afternoon if you're stuck in the office and not in the pub.
Long live evolution :)
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Friday 25th October 2013 23:54 GMT Andrew Moore
Re: How friggin awesome is evolution!
I know you are trolling but this probably supports evolution more- the mice that don't have the immunity die and therefore do not procreate, whereas the ones that do, get to pass on that trait to the next generation.
I will now prove that black is white and die on a zebra crossing.
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Friday 25th October 2013 14:11 GMT tonysmith
Re: How friggin awesome is evolution!
Realistically what are the odds of a mouse, which presumably can find other creatures to eat, comes along but due to some odd occurrence happens to have a natural genetic mutation that allows it to survive the stings, lives long enough to mate and those particular genes get carried forward to the next generation.
Then some time down the line one of its descendants has a genetic mutation that turns this toxin into something that also numbs the pain.
And if it didn't have other creatures to eat we have to factor in the chances of the whole species just being wiped out.
I'm not talking God vs Evolution - I'm talking mathematically what are the odds.
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Friday 25th October 2013 14:49 GMT Anonymous Coward
Re: How friggin awesome is evolution!
If the chance was 100 billion billion to 1 before the event happened. After the event happen the chance was 1:1, it's the other 999999...:1 things that didn't happen.
For instance, if you were to pick a grain of sand anywhere on the planet and then asked me to go an pick a grain of sand the chance of me picking the same grain of sand would be unimaginable. However if there was no precursor and I just happened to have picked up a grain a sand the chance of me picking up that particular grain of sand is 1:1.
Once an event has happened, trying to statistically work back to the chance of that event happening and determining therefore that the result is, in itself, an impossibly rare occurrence and therefore couldn't have happened (without the help 'magic') is a fallacy.
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Sunday 27th October 2013 22:53 GMT P. Lee
Re: How friggin awesome is evolution!
> If the chance was 100 billion billion to 1 before the event happened. After the event happen the chance was 1:1, it's the other 999999...:1 things that didn't happen.
Which event? The genetic mutation? Not being eaten by an owl? Finding a mouse-mate with matching genes? How many times did that genetic mutation occur without all the other factors being in place?
With the lack of mice relative to the odds, this looks like homeopathy. I'm well, therefore homeopathy works. Since it exists, it did evolve. Against any odds, evolution is the cause because we have already removed all other options from consideration.
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Monday 28th October 2013 12:20 GMT Nigel 11
Re: How friggin awesome is evolution!
It can't be evolution - if the poison kills you, then you can't breed in a protection against it, therefore this is 100% proof that evolution does not exist.
I should think that how this evolves is something like this.
To start with, the mice attacked scorpions the same way mongooses attack cobras. Very carefully. They're faster and smarter than their prey, so mostly they get to eat it rather than die. The less nimble ones get dead more often, and the species gets nimbler. Note that all hot-blooded species have a fundamental advantage over cold-blooded ones in the morning, before the cold-blooded ones have a chance to re-warm their bodies from the overnight chill.
Sometimes when battling or eating the prey, a small amount of venom gets into their bloodstream. Enough to harm but be survivable. Genetic variability means that for the higher doses, some survive and some don't. Gradually, genetic tolerance of the venom gets bred in. When a sting ceases to be lethal 100% of the time, risk-taking mice gain an evolutionary advantage over the original extremely risk-averse mice.
And so by slow and gradual evolution, you arrive at mice that laugh at scorpion venom.
I'd guess that the final stage is that mice which feel less pain when stung have a slight advantage over ones which do. Pain is distracting, so they more often get caught by larger predators if they suffer pain? That would create an evolutionary bias in favour of "hard" mice.
One other thing: ability to acquire tolerance of venoms by an individual is near-universal in mammals, including humans. It's the standard immune system response. The immune activity degrades a foreign protein before it can fatally degrade the host's proteins, and is then primed to mount the same response faster and better next time. Immune responses are passed (or primed) from mother to child via breast-milk. It's an area we don't yet fully understand. There may be epigenetic factors at work, and Lamarkian evolution may not be completely discredited when it comes to inherited immune response. Just a thought.
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Tuesday 29th October 2013 10:43 GMT Sarah Balfour
Re: How friggin awesome is evolution!
What about them owls wot live in cacti...? Thought they were native to AZ and TX - or am I imagining things again...?! Maybe I should quit posting when Jacobed - but then I'd not post at all (shut it! I can read the collective mind of Reg regulars, y'know...).
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Friday 25th October 2013 20:39 GMT Marvin the Martian
Re: Grasshopper? Surely.....
Chuck Norris?! You seem to have never heard of David Carradine, if that were possible?
" If that is our destiny, you cannot change it. But do not go with fear, Grasshopper; fear is eternal darkness. Go instead with inner strength, for it is like a deep river into which all streams flow. It increases, always moving forward; and soon, there is nothing that can stand in it's way. " -- Master Po
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Friday 25th October 2013 14:14 GMT tonysmith
Re: Evolution at work
But the mouse must have had other things to eat too? If it didn't then what are the chances of this mutation occurring before the mouse species is wiped out by the stings?
If the odds of this occurrence is high over a large number of years then why haven't other animals also evolved to eat this scorpion?
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Friday 25th October 2013 14:23 GMT handle
Re: Evolution at work
Read a good book that explains the subtleties of evolution, such as Almost LIke a Whale - it will answer all your questions.
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Friday 25th October 2013 12:44 GMT Just_this_guy
I see that once again the right-wing media are giving us a bad rap. You will note that my unfortunate colleague was merely DEFENDING himself from the WHOLLY UNPROVOKED attack by that thuggish mouse - a mouse who still walks free.
Now, I have nothing against mice. Some of my best friends are mice. I am absolutely not a mousist. BUT! We do not suffer these assaults from OTHER rodentines. When did you last see a rabbit attack a scorpion? What horny arthropod was ever exercised by the violent attentions of a red squirrel? For too long we have tolerated these scorpiophagic killings in the name of 'political correctness', but there comes a time when a line must be drawn. These mice must be punished! And if the individuals responsible cannot be identified (and let's face it, you can't tell them apart), then the regrettable consequence is that ALL of them must be made to suffer! Which is why we have engaged the services of Mr Thomas Cat Esquire.
Jesus Thattertz
Scorpion Solidarity League
PS. Apologies if that sounded a little venomous.
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Friday 25th October 2013 13:14 GMT Maharg
The Scorpion Solidarity League is not to be trusted!
As always the left wing media has spun lies that the Scorpion Solidarity League has provided them with, if you view the unedited video, you will see that Jerry the mouse, was minding his own business when a gang of scorpions broke into his house (how else did they both get in there? And none of that ‘higher power BS), while the mouse was diplomatic enough to advise the other to leave, this scorpion, high on PCP remained in the home and attacked Jerry’s children.
Jerry’s actions, while unfortunate, where completely in the name of defending his family, an investigation has revealed that this Scorpion was wanted for an unprovoked attack on a number of innocent chipmunks, one, known as ‘Alvin’ is still in intensive care.
Once again the Scorpion Solidarity League (SSL) has used the fallout from actions its members instigated to attack the reputation of the peace loving Terrain Living Small-mammals group (TLS).
The TLS will no longer put up with this hatred lies coming from the SSL, and the TLS, not SSL should be viewed as the preferred standard for information relating to these incidents.
And don’t get me started on the VPN (Viper Protection Network).
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Friday 25th October 2013 13:49 GMT Just_this_guy
THE ABOVE POST IS LIBELLOUS!
Not for the first time, the so-called Terrain Living Small-mammals group slanders innocent scorpions, this time with a preposterous suggestion that the attack by one (or more?) of its members was some kind of scorpion sting operation. These smears and twisted tails are frankly tiresome, and we are once more obliged to consult our lawyers to consider our response. In the meantime, any responsible media with pretensions to impartiality should ENTIRELY IGNORE - and beware of repeating - the squeaking and bleating from the Nazi-fronting fur-bigots of the TLS.
Clawed Turibbons
Public Relations Tsar
Scorpion Solidarity League
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Friday 25th October 2013 14:31 GMT Maharg
THE ABOVE POSTS ACUSATION OF THE POSTS ABOVE BEING LIBELLOUS IS LIBELLOUS!
The TLS will not take these threats made against it lightly, the Scorpion Solidarity League is known throughout the animal kingdom as not being trustworthy, and trying to brainwash our vulture friends with its lies is just the tip of the tall tail!
I had a meeting with the head Tuna of the Federation of Intelligent Swimmers with Honor (FISH) recently.
He said his members thought there was something fishy going on, the Welfare Of Otter’s Department (WOOD) says the SSL is a hardline Splinter Group, and I can smell a rat.
the SSL need to BE INVESTAGED at once, our friends in the Dyslexic Unity of Promoting Animal Peace and Love (SPLGRU) have even distanced themselves from the SSL, and if even that bunch of hippies wont engage in talks with them then they are not to be trusted.
As the TLS is a member of the Cute Responsible Animals Protectorate (CRAP) the TLS is to be trusted, because while everyone knows if an animal looks cute, it is harmless and sweet.
Just like Polar Bears.
Your friend
Joseph Gerbils
Propaganda minister
Terrain Living Small-mammals
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Friday 25th October 2013 14:40 GMT Just_this_guy
^ NEW DEPTHS OF DEPRAVITY!!
We will not resort to petty name-calling, it is beneath us, and we will not comment further on this matter until it is before the bench. But it's no accident that Himmler looked like a hamster.
Creep E Crowley
Director of Everything
Scorpion Solidarity League
PS. AND we've got more legs than you! Suck it up, quadrupedic losers!
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Friday 25th October 2013 18:58 GMT Anonymous Coward
One slight problem...
"This would mean that perhaps" is not theory or scientific "fact", it's a "hypothesis". I hate when either scientists or the articles about them get this wrong*. We can all theorize possible mechanisms, it's observing them, or confirming them scientifically that's important...
"...This seemed very far out, but we wanted to test it anyway.” And he saves! Nice one Prof Zakon!
*and it turns out this one did not. Colour me surprised Reg!
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Monday 28th October 2013 13:02 GMT deadfamous
Darwinian correction..
Just a quick reminder - there's no such thing as evolution - it's natural selection....
(for those non-religious zealots out there) I am not going to be another creature in the future, my progeny will simply have a better (or worse) chance of surviving....
Which is why the mouse lives!!!
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Tuesday 29th October 2013 11:07 GMT Sarah Balfour
Looks like some respondents forgot to evolve a sense of humour...
This has GOT TO BE one of the - if not THE - funniest response threads I've read in my - at least 8 years - of lurking (and occasionally responding) here. I sincerely hope the respondent who called Godwin's was being sarcastic/ironic; if not, feck off and don't return until ya've developed a sense of humour!
For a brief moment, I was overwhelmed by the Green-Eyed Monster, and considered down-voting every single one, cos I wish I'D thought of it! - but I couldn't! Sheer comedy GENIUS!
Hey, Reg! Ever thought of collating some of these into a book, á la New Scientist's Last Word pages...? I'd buy it (and I strongly suspect I'd not be the only one...).
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