back to article US student planned to ice Chuck Norris

A New Jersey high school student has been suspended for allegedly drawing up a hit list which included the names of "three students and a school administrator" and, rather ill-advisedly, roundhouse-kicking death machine Chuck Norris. According to the Philadephia Inquirer, the unnamed Pennsauken High School 16-year-old was …

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  1. Paul
    IT Angle

    Que....

    a list of Chuck Norris Jokes....

  2. Geoff Spick
    Pirate

    Ahh...

    ...Chuck Norris, the only man who can speak Braille. Mark the pupil down as a future Darwin Award winner

    Skull n bones - don't mess with Chuck

  3. Thomas Swann
    Stop

    "Terroristic" ?

    Oh.

    My.

    God.

  4. Anonymous Coward
    Unhappy

    No sense of humor?

    While I applaud the efforts to try to eliminate violence in schools (and everywhere else), it seems to me that since Chuck Norris was on the list, that this was a total fantasy list, not something that's likely to have ever been acted on. "Zero Tolerance" smacks of Gestapo tactics. Is zero tolerance truly appropriate for young people who are likely to make mistakes in life? I'd think getting expelled from school for making a list would be more likely to make a person really bitter, and maybe even "push them over the edge" You're basically throwing a young person's life away over a slight possibility that they might go berserk. I remember making a similar list when I was in school, but I don't own a gun, have never stabbed, shot, or otherwise physically harmed anyone, nor do I plan on it. (although I do have some mild road-rage at times) Times were different back then---I suppose if someone had wanted, they could have brought their knife collection to show-and-tell. Every boy (including myself) had a pocket knife in grade school, but the thought never occurred to any of us to use them to harm another person. An occasional fistfight, more of a dominance thing than trying to really cause damage, was the only real violence back then. Maybe confidential counseling would be appropriate to determine if the person is really a threat...

    At least our off-colour thoughts are still safe... for now...

  5. Sarah Bee (Written by Reg staff)

    Re: Ahh...

    Peter Griffin can speak Braille. 'Bump, bump, no bump, three raised bumps and a square.'

  6. Mootykins69
    Alert

    Re: Terroristic

    It's as clumsy a neologism as you'd expect from the Yanks.

    Personally I prefer the slightly more emphatic "terrortastic"!

  7. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    @Paul

    Que? Did you mean queue?

  8. Ron Beck

    Calling Chuck

    Obviously this kid needs to learn some discipline. Somebody call Chuck's agent and see if he has time to teach the kid a little karate.

  9. Christoph

    Making threats?

    The teacher "found" this list? Presumably by searching his property or similar?

    Exactly how is that "making a threat" if he never meant anyone else to see it?

  10. DM
    Coat

    Chuck Norris...

    ...isn't scared of Bill Ray.

  11. Kane
    Go

    Re: Ahh...

    Chuck Norris shot the sheriff, but he round house kicked the deputy.

  12. Sarah Bee (Written by Reg staff)

    Re: @Paul

    I think you both meant 'cue' in the sense of 'to line up' in the sense of 'lots of Chuck Norris jokes are imminent'.

    MINE IS THE ONE WITH THE DICTIONARY.

  13. Sarah Bee (Written by Reg staff)

    Re: Chuck Norris...

    Heh!

  14. Cavan
    Coat

    Defense of impossibility?

    In the US he could have a defense to attempt or conspiracy to commit, of impossibility lets face it; it's not possible to kill Chuck Norris, so this kid is only guilty of stupidity....

    He should be put in charge of education in Kansas .. .he'd get rid of Creationism, and instill norrisism

    There is no theory of evolution. Just a list of creatures Chuck Norris has allowed to live.

    Mines the pyjamas...

  15. Ben Parkinson
    Coat

    terroristic? Only in America!

    gah! what a crap attempt at a new word!!!

    terroristic... Was that is Team America or something?

    How about... SuperterroristicAl-Qaedadocious ?

  16. Jon
    Joke

    Homer's List?

    Thats it Pennsauken High is making the list.....

    Revenge list:

    - Bill of Rights

    - Grandpa

    - fat free lard

    - gravity

    - Emmys

    - Darwin

    - H2WHOA!

    - Billy Crystal

    - God

    - Soloflex

    - the boy

    - Stern Lecture Plumbing

    - Econo Save

    - Pennsauken High

  17. Ash
    Thumb Down

    @AC: No sense of humor?

    "off-colour"? Sounds racist to me. ZERO TOLERANCE! Expelled.

    If kids learn by example, no wonder they're a bunch of little shits.

  18. Nick Palmer
    Stop

    He was arrested for...

    ..."making terroristic threats"? Frankly, I'd be more inclined to award the kid a prize for being able to write a comprehensible and coherent list in the first place, given that the background illiteracy count for the area seems to have gone through the roof.

  19. Daniel B.
    Thumb Down

    Stoopid

    "Terrorist Acts"? For having an obviously fantasy hitlist?

    I'd see more of a "terrorist" in a bully than in a kid with an imaginary hitlist. I wonder what would've happened if someone had seen my "People I'd kill if it was legal to do so" list back in secondary school...

  20. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Queue / Cue

    I think it was "Queue" as in to form an orderly line, rather than "cue" as in snooker...

  21. Anonymous Coward
    IT Angle

    L7

    When I get mad

    And I get pissed

    I grab my pen

    And I write out a list

    Of all the people

    That won't be missed

    You've made my shitlist

  22. Anonymous Coward
    Joke

    @Sarah Bee re Cue/Queue/Que

    Damn! Beat me to it. I was going to show them the difference between a queue and a cue - one round the back of the head, and t'other in A&E.

    Bloody grammar infidels.

    Anyway, congrations, your a winner!

  23. Louis Cowan
    Black Helicopters

    Terrortard

    Seems like the only people we have to fear are those who are supposedly protecting us from those who we're supposed to fear!

  24. Matt Thornton
    Flame

    hmm..

    Presumably, if you made one of those "joe bloggs loves joanne bloggs" thingies where you count up the number of times each of l, o, v, e and s occurs in the names to find out the percentage value of how much the love is true (or something)*, then then you're guilty of intent to commit statutory rape?

    * Was that just me? Mine's the smingey brown raincoat...

  25. Daniel Ratcliffe

    Terroristic

    What's wrong with terroristic? American neologism? -ic is the normal way to form adjectives from words ending in -ist. Therefore terroristic means of or like terrorists.

  26. frymaster

    Queue / cue

    It's cue, as in "the signal to perform an action"

    Sarah Bee had the right spelling, just not the right definition

  27. Mike Crawshaw
    Happy

    Queue / Cue

    I thought it was "que", as spelled, missing the question mark.

    As in the French "que" = "what"

    So "Que?" = "What?"

    but that's probably because I have a habit of speaking French / German at people who want me to do things in order to confuse them enough to forget some of the things they want me to do.

  28. Brutus
    Boffin

    Re: Queue / Cue

    Actually, I think it's supposed to be cue as 'the actress missed her cue'

  29. Sarah Bee (Written by Reg staff)

    Re: Queue / Cue

    I'm not completely convinced it isn't 'Kew' as in 'Kew Gardens'.

  30. Frumious Bandersnatch
    Stop

    "zero tolerance"

    I hate this newspeak... why don't they just say "intolerant"?

  31. Anonymous Coward
    Coat

    @ Chuck Norris isn't scared of Bill Ray

    Where's my t-shirt, dammit?

  32. Dave Edmondston
    Coat

    Re: Queue / Cue

    Is it not 'k-you', as in 'Fu'?

  33. Simon Painter
    Alert

    Oh dear god... the land of the free...

    Here's how it works... this kid is bullied on a regular basis and is probably having a hell of a time at high school and has idle fantasies about beating up people who have caused him hassle. He probably added Chuck because he's like Superman and anyone who beats up on Chuck would get some "respect".

    What the school board should have done is offer this kid some help with managing his anger (to be honest writing a list and keeping it in your locker is a pretty healthy way to deal with this sort of anger and a lot better than turning up to school with an AK just because everyone teases you for being an emo as has happened in a number of US institutions). Instead they have branded this guy a psycho which will mean the victimisation will only get worse for the poor kid until he either kills himself or kills a few other people and then himself.

    The land of the free, the same place that brought you the Salem Witch Trials.

  34. Anonymous Coward
    Coat

    @ Queue / Cue

    ¿Qué?

    Si si!

  35. Ed Sexton
    Go

    Re: Queue / Cue

    Surely it's just the single letter 'Q', like in James Bond.

  36. Anony mouse
    Coat

    Que?

    as in :-

    Basil Fawlty: Ah, Manuel? There is too much butter on those trays.

    Manuel: Que? <------------------------------

    Basil Fawlty: [speaking slowly] There is too much butter on those trays.

    Manuel: Ah, no senor. No "on those trays"...

    [counting the trays]

    Manuel: "uno, dos, tres".

  37. ben

    my list

    1. Become the next US President

    2. Open as lead act at the first rock fesival on the moon

    3. Kill Chuck Norris in a roundhouse contest

    3 is just a dream.

  38. Anonymous Coward
    Coat

    Re: Re: Terroristic

    "Personally I prefer the slightly more emphatic "terrortastic"!"

    How about "Terrorific"?

  39. Name

    @Frumious

    Because 'zero tolerance' and 'intolerance' mean different things? Wouldn't be particularly helpful to use a word to mean something other than what that word means, would it?

  40. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    heh

    I like "terrortastic"

    reminds me of the line from that film I saw once.

    "Ladies can't get enough of my funktactic love"

    "Infidels can't get enough of my terrortastic thrusts"

    Terroristic terrortards terrorise through terror.

    Thing is, I don't feel very terrorified.

  41. Gaz
    Alert

    It's Cue!!

    How much discussion over one word?! It's Cue. As in a prompt.

    Chuck Norris CAN divide by zero :)

  42. Anonymous Coward
    Coat

    There is no queue

    Just a line of people Chuck Norris hasn't killed yet ...

  43. Andy
    Happy

    Kew Gardens!

    Now there's a Terrorgasmicalistic breeding ground if I've never seen one!

    Damn those plants with plots and those latin-esque names! Burn them

    at the stake!

  44. Matt
    Coat

    Re: Queue / Cue

    could just be the end of an insult, as in '***k you'

    mines the leotard on the peg.

  45. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    If you can see Chuck Norris

    Chuck norris can see you....

    If you can't see chuck norris

    you may be moments from death!

  46. Anonymous Coward
    Happy

    @Sarah Bee

    I don't suppose you are related to the Sarah Bee that contributes to Scarlet? If so, I'd just like to say "Thanks"!

    Anonymous because If she isn't, then I've just...<turns red and hides. Forever>

  47. Sarah Bee (Written by Reg staff)

    Re: @Sarah Bee

    Heh. I have associations with that publication, yes.

  48. John

    Chuck Norris Facts

    I'm suprised no one posted this....

    http://www.chucknorrisfacts.com

    Enjoy...

  49. Hans

    @ By Andy

    quote: "Burn them at the stake!"

    are you sure it's not burn them at the steak? as in barbe CUE/Que/queue/kew/q . . . fu

  50. Aint
    Alert

    Better safe than sorry, people

    Zero tolerance means better safe than sorry. It's time to close all of these publicly funded terrorist training camps we call "schools". Talk about playing with fire! Allowing children to interact?! How crazy is that!?!? They could murder each other with firearms!!!!

    Chuck Norris tears cure cancer. Too bad he has never cried.

  51. Geoff Mackenzie

    Terrorists

    Terrorists, terrorists, TERRORISTS! You're all TERRORISTS! Aaaaarrrrrrgh!

  52. Jesse
    Alert

    Let's

    have less QQ.

    PS. Chuck Norris is always on top during sex because Chuck Norris never fucks up.

  53. Paul
    Unhappy

    @ Matt

    Yep. Spot on. As in ***k you lot. Why don't you just get somthing better to do than go on and on about the fact that I went to spell Queue, changed it to cue and messed up?

    BTW, I expect it from the other posters, but someone who works for El Reg? Not a very nice way to treat a reader...Especially the Kew joke.

  54. Spleen
    Dead Vulture

    The thought police of the future

    It's a pretty simple plan. Ban boys from violent games - and I don't mean just computer games, I mean Cowboys and Indians etc as well. Run anti-bullying campaigns that don't stop at actual bullying - kicking the crap out of smaller kids for their lunch money - but indoctinate kids that any sort of conflict whatsoever is wrong. Ban them from thinking violent thoughts, drawing guns on their exercise books, writing plots to kill the President, etc.

    By the time they're 21 they'll either have so much rage bottled up inside them they'll make perfect soldiers or Thought Police, or they'll be completely docile, unable to cope with any sort of competitive environment, and make perfect civil servants.

  55. Sarah Bee (Written by Reg staff)

    Re: @ Matt

    I know, I'm sorry, it was naughty and bad of me. I really did get out the big guns on the Kew tip.

    Ha! 'Kew tip'! I see what I did there!

  56. Anonymous Coward
    Paris Hilton

    @Sarah Bee @AC

    If it is this Scarlet(*) - www.scarletmagazine.co.uk (NSFW) then I am not surprised you turned red - you naughty naughty boy

    Paris - cause she'll feature well in Scarlet

    (*) It was the 1st hit in Google for the word Scarlet but I'll post anonymously anyways.

  57. The_Police!
    Coat

    America:

    Contrary to popular belief, America is not a democracy, it is a Chucktatorship.

    from chucknorrisfacts.com

    Mines the one with 'Chuck friend written in blood'

  58. ImaGnuber
    Paris Hilton

    Zero Tolerance

    Zero Tolerance is just a method for avoiding the necessity of thought and judgement and therefore responsibility.

  59. An ominous cow herd
    Thumb Up

    You know that....

    ...defining the list as "terroristic threats" is just the truthiness!

    MC

  60. V.Srikrishnan
    Thumb Down

    americanization of words??

    "demobilized" by a "taser" not exactly a new word but gives a fair idea of

    "zero tolerance"

    "misspeak"??

    "internalized" i was horrified when i spotted this word...

    i belong to a country which was one of biggest the ex-colonies of england.

  61. Darren B

    Even the guys at blendtech

    failed to eliminate Chuck Norris

    http://www.willitblend.com/videos.aspx?type=unsafe&video=chuck

  62. Anonymous Coward
    Happy

    @AC @Sarah Bee @AC

    Yes, that Scarlet Magazine. My back still aches, and people are wondering why I have a permanent fixed grin.

    As an aside, do any Reg Hacks work for "Amateur Proctologist" Magazine. It's just that,umm, my wife found a copy of umm Scarlet, and well, uhhh. Big Fixed Grin. Thankfully El Reg provides a suitable icon.

  63. PM
    Stop

    Interesting law

    "making terroristic threats" after a teacher discovered the list"

    A list, which was not made public, but "discovered" by a school official is defined as "making terroristic threats"?

  64. ImaGnuber

    Scarlet

    Ok forget the damn kid. This is much better.

  65. Turbojerry

    @Sarah Bee

    You're way to Kew-l for S-kew-l...

  66. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Terroristic Schmerroristic

    At least Kentucky courts have ruled there is no such crime as attempted terroristic threatening

    http://bowjamesbow.ca/2005/10/10/all-charges-dro.shtml

    http://64.233.183.104/search?q=cache:uxFdeXTYk4QJ:penusa.org/go/news/comments/415/+william+poole+terroristic&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=9&gl=uk

  67. Will
    Heart

    Sarah Bee

    Is posting comments on articles instead of working ;)

  68. David

    Not @ Sarah Bee, but at those who @ @ her

    You could of course have just found out she writes for scarlet by visiting her website. Which also has her email address, mobile phone number and a picture, and reminds one a few basic things about net security.

  69. j
    Boffin

    @ Daniel Ratcliffe RE "terroristic"

    There's nothing technically wrong with "terroristic", but it's a perfect example of the current habit of trying to shoehorn buzzwords into official statements in order to justify what might otherwise be unjustified overreactions, which the US (and often UK) authorities and media seem particularly keen on.

    eg. "making terroristic threats" vs "making threats"

    It's also completely unneccesary, "making terror threats" would suffice perfectly if he actually had, but the subtle addition of "ic"implies he didn't make terror threats, he made terror-like threats. As far as I'm aware *any* threat could be considered terror-like.

  70. Anonymous Coward
    Black Helicopters

    Doh! Forgot to add the link...

    Song I was referring to...

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vyjjivf7LtQ

    :)

  71. James Marsack
    Pirate

    Creative Writing...

    If a teacher were to ever uncover a "hitlist" of mine, I would note a violation of my rights and free speach... especially if it had Chuck Norris's name on it. I remember once me and my brother wrote "I hate you, I hate you, I hate you" to all the answers on a spelling test in grade school. The teacher would ask "why do you hate me?". Our answer would always be the same, "we don't hate you we just like writing it." For a while I used to write "You DIE!" on all my books and inside my locker... all I'd ever get is a few dirty looks and noone thought anything else of it... today I look back and laugh a little... besides, people can tattoo death lists on their arms and noone can stop them. Ah, Those were the days, when you could write a short story of a teacher getting murdered and not get in trouble for making every charactor's name a student from your class... because that is called "creative writing" and chances are your low on meds again.

  72. Red Bren
    Coat

    @AC RE: Sarah Bee

    "I don't suppose you are related to the Sarah Bee that contributes to Scarlet?"

    Are you suggesting Ms Bee's parents called all their daughters Sarah?

  73. Charlie van Becelaere

    Re: terroristic

    Surely we all know the correct word is terrorismatic?

    Move along now, nothing else to see.

    (and we need a Chuck Norris icon for our posts)

  74. Brian
    Coat

    kewpie?

    Late to the party, but I'll be leaving now anyway...

  75. Anonymous Coward
    Black Helicopters

    Something similar happened to me.

    Many moons ago…

    I was taking my lunch hour at work and started to write down the lyrics to a song I was listening to on my Walkman. I wrote them down in the notebook I also used for work related stuff. I didn’t have a paper to read, so it seemed like a good idea at the time.

    Cue/que/queue/kew/Q the following day, I have to go and see the Managing Director. It turns out my manager, narrow-minded twunt that he was, read my notebook and thought I’d gone mad.

    I of course, told him that it was just some song lyrics I was listening to. But I also added that my F*cking manager had no right to read anything in my notebook and if he was so f*cking concerned, ask me about it first.

    A couple of months later, I got made redundant.

    The song, if I remember, was this:

    URL

    So remember, it does not take a state policy to screw you, just a bigot jobs worth will do it.

  76. Steve Sorensen
    Boffin

    @It's Cue!!

    Bruce Schneier taught Chuck Norris how to divide by zero as they stood silent in an elevator.

    http://geekz.co.uk/schneierfacts/

  77. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    freedom of speech

    So, you have 4 names on a piece of paper.

    Freedom of speech???

  78. Dean H.

    When do we stop saying the U.S. has 'free speech?'

    I heard yesterday that someone was fined for telling some kids to quit playing in a tree 'like monkeys.'

    Somebody somewhere needs to found a country where 'free speech' actually means something.

  79. kain preacher

    @James Marsack

    If a teacher were to ever uncover a "hitlist" of mine, I would note a violation of my rights and free speach.

    Courts have ruled the schools have the right to limit your free speach.

  80. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    @AC

    "Bloody grammar infidels.

    Anyway, congrations, your a winner!"

    Ahem...

    "congratulations"

    "you're"

  81. Dave Morris
    Joke

    Queue/Cue/Que/Kew

    Is everybody certain that it is not Q, as in the Q Continuum; I'm sure those omnipotent beings have something funny (at least to them) to say about their fellow super-being Mr. Norris.

  82. Adrian Esdaile
    Flame

    I has a free speeched, bloody grammar infidels!

    Of course 'terroristic' is correct!

    One does not 'become a terrorist', the correct form is 'bascially undergo terroristification', or the shorter, basically more correcter 'terroristificationalism'

    Study of this is 'terroristificationalismology' (as seen in the new series of DesperateSingleFemaleLaywerCSI:Lake Wasapamanni)

    Mericanish is double-plus better gooderness than Ye Olde Engerlershe.

  83. This post has been deleted by its author

  84. NukEvil
    Black Helicopters

    @free speech

    In the U.S. the constitution does not apply to public (state-funded) educational institutions. High schools being the key here. Which is why cops, school admins, etc are able to search students' lockers, bring drug-sniffing dogs to sniff the classrooms over, etc, without any fear of some student yelling about their constitutional rights...because, as long as they're at that school, they have none.

  85. Anonymous Coward
    Thumb Down

    Zero Tolerance f up

    There is a BIG problem with school's Zero Tolerance programs. They're kids and bound to screw up sometime, give them a probation period instead of kicking them out of school and ruining whatever dreams they have.

  86. Anonymous Coward
    Dead Vulture

    NY Times terroristic reference

    The New York Times archives reveal the word terroristic from 1885. I think the horse has left the stables on that particular coinage.

    The beat penguin in sympathy to the beaten horse.

  87. Andrew
    Pirate

    Chuck Norris vs. 16 Year Old

    A youthful head explosion is immenent, surely....

  88. TeeCee Gold badge
    Joke

    "Terroristic"

    Is the unpleasant adhesive sensation that you get in your underwear when a loud explosion occurs unexpectedly in close proximity....

  89. Matt Bradley
    Coat

    @Thomas Swann "Terroristic"

    Right there with you on that sentiment.

    Oh.

    My.

    GOD.

    Lester: this article was very humouristic. It gave me quite a chuckle. Are you absolutely certain of the accuratisticness of the original report. I wouldn't want the facts to have been misunderstimated....

  90. Ryan Greenaway
    Thumb Up

    Chuck Norris goes into shipping...

    ...and his chief export is PAIN!!!

  91. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Here's a novel idea:

    Why can't schools have a "zero tolerance" on stupidity and let Chuck Norris worry about terroristic threats?

  92. greg

    OMG

    QUE IS SPANISH FOR 'WHAT' (not french)

    CUE IS ANY ACTION OR THING THAT IS DONE, WHICH IS FOLLOWED BY ANOTHER ACTION

    QUEUE IS AN ORDERLY LINE, NORMALLY CONSISTING OF PEOPLE WAITING FOR SOMETHING

    Jeez... How many of you come from Pennsauken High?

  93. StopthePropaganda
    Thumb Down

    you can thank

    the "think of the children" liberal mindset, with it's "always offended" and Political Correctness regimes, enforced by legion of lawyers.

    Again, this is the world you wanted, spending so much time worrying about "feelings" being hurt, and "stopping violence" and refusing to let kids be kids. And even worse, interfering because you refuse to believe that a little violence can solve problems, keeping kids from fighting and discovering for themselves what violence does.

    You hippies grew up and thought you'd remake society in your own image, avoiding what you arrogantly decided were "mistakes" of the past. And you created this shitty society we see today. Congratulations. Now have the balls to own up to it, instead of trying to blame it on the same folks who tried to stop you in the first place.

    You international types can take a share too, for encouraging these people when you'd already seen the damage they'd wrought upon your own nations. But, misery loves company I suppose.

  94. Francis Boyle Silver badge

    terroristic

    I prefer terroresque - same lack of actual content plus it would make a great name for a band.

  95. Anymouse
    Coat

    I always thought that

    A "que" was a hair style.

  96. oldfartuk

    @ Greg

    A Cue is what you hit the Cue Ball with so it hits a red ball and scores 1 point. Evidently you didnt have such a youthistically misspentasitic upbringing as some of us.

  97. Chris Hunt

    What's wrong with "terroristic"?

    It's a perfectly cromulent word.

  98. Matt Bradley
    Flame

    @StopthePropaganda

    These a word which we wishy washy pinko leftist liberals have for your last post: It's "delusional" (Note: not "delusionotistic", or "delusionesque").

    This young lad was arrested for "terroristic" threats: This a phrase that comes right out of the George Bush book of neologisms. To suggest otherwise is utterly bizarre.

    I could go on by pointing out that your country has been run by a right wing Republican government for the last 7 years, and that much of us in Europe are astonished at what US politics rather laugably thinks of as "Left Wing".

    I might EVEN make reference to the fact that much of Europe has also watched with amazement whilst some sections of US society continue to insist that the population is actually SAFER because everybody has guns; perhaps this could somehow be connected with the weapons safety paranoia that school bodies are feeling? I don't know.

    <Shakes head in bemusement>

  99. Tim Maidment
    Coat

    Talking of Misspellingistic Efforts

    Who else here keeps mentally adding an 'i' between the 'n' and 's' of the school name?

    Mine's the one weighted with unread dictionaries, thanks...

This topic is closed for new posts.