back to article Wow! British Gas bungs a million remote-controlled sales-droids in UK homes

One million UK homes now have a "smart meter" from British Gas. The rollout may save each household £65 a year and feed £14bn into the economy, but most importantly, it will save British Gas money. The energy giant led the way towards the mandated smart-meters, relying on mobile phone networks to communicate with the new power …

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  1. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Electricity bill

    > Such clues are, apparently, too subtle for the great British public

    Not too subtle for the bill payer, but certainly too subtle for teenagers that leave Xboxes etc on all the time. Demonstrating that their bedroom alone is using more power than the oven / kettle / washing machine can do wonders. (Well, for about 10 minutes then they have to be nagged again)

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Electricity bill

      That and a bill tells you what you have used, in fact a meter, hidden away only really tells you what you have used, unless you are pretty good at reading the spinning disk. A smart meter is a large display that you can make your teenagers watch, while you turn off their crap. It's a lot more effective than balling them out one a quarter, or however long it it between bills.

      1. Sooty

        Re: Electricity bill

        I used to leave my gaming pc on all the time, my wake up call was when I had a problem with it, and basically slotted a netbook into its role as a server temporarily. My quarterly electricity bill was over £100 less due to this one change.

        A gaming PC with a 1200 watt supply, to a netbook with a 40 watt charger, 24/7 it adds up!

  2. Phil O'Sophical Silver badge

    The smart meters offer a running commentary on how much power a home is consuming.

    I have visions of this disembodied voice from the cupboard under the stairs:

    "For the millionth time, shut that ^%*ing door"

    "Why did you turn the thermostat up? Just put another pullover on"

    "How many times have I told you, showers are more economical than baths."

    "Do you have any idea how much that is going to cost us?"

    1. Alister

      Re: The smart meters offer a running commentary on how much power a home is consuming.

      I have visions of this disembodied voice from the cupboard under the stairs:

      Oh, you keep your wife there too?

      1. Jim 59
        Black Helicopters

        Privacy

        Not to mention they will have a dashed handy record of when you are in/out, watching TV, going to bed, getting up in the night, keeping a basement full of slaves... would be funny if the UK weren't already the world's most surveilled society.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: The smart meters offer a running commentary on how much power a home is consuming.

      Not with the amount of time I take in the shower.

  3. Amorous Cowherder
    Holmes

    While I'm not sold on the whole smart meter thing, seems all too invasive for my liking it is an interesting exercise to get one of those £20 mains appliance consumption meters off Amazon and check what your appliances are actually consuming. I have a loaded i7 tower loaded with 4 HD's, two CDs and 750W PSU, the draw is only 95W max even when I tried to run a few intensive processes and got the fans running, by comparison the TV was drawing 300W so switch from console to PC gaming might be in order, ha ha! My old man did the same thing as he has a Koi pond and found he was drawing something like 20 units a day on just his pond from all the pumps and such like, made him think and he's slashed it down to 14 units by alternating the pumps and he's already started to see his bills drop.

    While I like the idea of something help me to save money ( and save a few polar bears and penguins in the bargain ) I'm just not in favour of all this smart connected appliance stuff, I don't need Scottish Power deciding my fridge is too hungry, pulling the plug and letting it piss it's melting ice-box all over my kitchen floor!

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      @Amorous Cowherder

      "I don't need Scottish Power deciding my fridge is too hungry, pulling the plug and letting it piss it's melting ice-box all over my kitchen floor!"

      Well they've decided that you -do- need it. So you're gonna get it. If you don't like it, get a mop. End of discussion.

      1. Peter Gathercole Silver badge

        Re: @Amorous Cowherder

        Fortunately, the smart meter will not be able to power individual appliances down until either smart sockets are installed, or the appliances start implementing remote control. Both features are in the pipeline, but not generally here yet.

        As I understand it, when you do get remote control from the meter, you will be able to assign certain devices (like fridges or freezers) a higher priority, so that other devices will be powered down first.

        The savings I would get would be minimal, because I am already using a power consumption monitor on the house as a whole, and a plug in consumption meter to measure the power of individual devices.

        1. John Smith 19 Gold badge
          Unhappy

          @Peter Gathercote

          "As I understand it, when you do get remote control from the meter, you will be able to assign certain devices (like fridges or freezers) a higher priority, so that other devices will be powered down first."

          Oh joy.

          So you get to choose which appliance you can't have power for?

          I wonder what happened to the cretinous peer who got a bung to include this clause in the bill?

          1. Danny 14
            Joke

            Re: @Peter Gathercote

            just run a 10 way from the fridge socket.

            "MY GOD THAT FRIDGE IS USING 3KW"

          2. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: @Peter Gathercote

            "I wonder what happened to the cretinous peer who got a bung to include this clause in the bill?"

            He got a directorship on the board of a green energy company and is currently raking in so much cash that his descendants will revere and bless him, down to the seventh generation. They will live in luxury and you will live in Soviet England.

            Anything else you need to know?

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      You really do need to invest in a good meter if you're going to bother, since many appliances create false readings to the "power factor", the distortion of the AC wave.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_factor

      1. Peter Gathercole Silver badge

        @AC

        It's a while since I did any education on the power factor, but it is quite clear from the reading I've been doing over the last few weeks that the whole power factor issue is much more complex now that it used to be.

        Back in the days of inductive loads, the power factor was mainly due to a phase shift caused by the load (and in fact, devices that use significant amounts of power nowadays have to have additional components to bring the power factor down to close to zero before they can get a CE mark in Europe).

        But since such simple times, the increased use of switched-mode power supplies, used because they are much smaller and more efficient, has lead to the waveform of the neutral being not only phase-shifted, but corrupted so that it is no longer anything resembling a sine wave. I still cannot get my head around what is needed to work out the real power use in this case. I'm sure it is all factored in, but without further research, it's beyond me.

        All I know is that the two clamp-on power meters I have rarely agree on how much power is being used in the house, but they still are a good indicator of when the consumption goes up and down.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: @AC

          "devices that use significant amounts of power nowadays have to have additional components to bring the power factor down to close to zero before they can get a CE mark in Europe" (did you mean close to 1?)

          "... no longer anything resembling a sine wave"

          The CE people are still on the case. In recent years, CE marking done properly (which is a topic in itself) requires that equipment does not make any significant contribution to harmonic currents in the mains.

          So in principle, recent appliances with CE marks should have power factor close to 1, regardless of whether PF means current and voltage phase relationship, or whether PF relates to non-sinusoidal current waveform.

          YMMV (your meters may vary).

          If you have time to spare, some enlightenment is available (including limits on what level of non-sinusoidal current is classed as "significant"), e.g.

          http://www.epsma.org/pdf/PFC%20Guide_November%202010.pdf

    3. Khaptain Silver badge
      Coat

      @Amorous Cowherder

      Isn't a fridge a bit redundant in Scotland ?

      1. This post has been deleted by its author

      2. John 110
        Pint

        @Khaptain 13:24

        We keep the beer in them, we like it cold up here...

    4. Graham Marsden

      "get one of those £20 mains appliance consumption meters"

      When I switched to Scottish Power a while back, they gave me one of those meters for free.

      I checked the consumption, then went round and switched off everything that was unnecessary.

      At which point the reading had hardly changed because I was *already* switching off unnecessary appliances, lights, chargers etc.

      So a smart meter will probably save me absolutely nothing.

  4. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Or, looking at it another way...

    "The technology is already making a difference for customers, with those with smart meters less likely to have to phone with a bill query, and more likely to recommend British Gas to a friend than those with a standard meters.

    Which perhaps shows more accurately what the whole thing is all about.

    "

    ...less likely to phone with a bill query because, without bill, you aren't going to know the number to call to raise a query...?

    1. Ragarath

      Re: Or, looking at it another way...

      Also, the customers with a meter are obviously those that wanted one more, thus it correlates that they would like it more hence the results.

      PR PR and Marketing, or should I say distorted truths?

  5. Tom_

    Costs hidden...

    "Such clues are, apparently, too subtle for the great British public who need real-time displays of their spending before they'll drag themselves off the sofa to turn off the unused shower."

    The trouble is that the utility companies do all they can to hide these clues by averaging bills over long time periods, etc. ie. Over the last ten years or so, my electricity and gas bills have been the same each month for a year at a time or maybe two or three years. They just don't show the diffrerences in using the clothes dryer less for a couple of weeks or making an effort not to leave any lights on. It's all smoothed out and hidden away.

    1. DrXym

      Re: Costs hidden...

      I don't think it's deliberate, it's just the way the meters ran before now. Technically it would have been neat if the meter had a tachograph-like disc which drew consumption over time and which the reader stuck back through the door after taking a reading. That way you could see your consumption over time.

      Anyway most of the opposition to smart metering sounds like paranoid guff. So the company you're buying electric from knows how much electric you're using... so what? Providing the wireless tech is suitably secure to prevent eavesdropping I have no issue with it.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Costs hidden...

        The word you are, or at least should be, searching for is ELECTRICITY. 'Electric' is an adjective, although misused frequently by the illiterate.

        1. This post has been deleted by its author

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          'Electric' is an adjective...

          Another personal peeve is the overwhelming use of the term 'electronic' to describe even the humblest of electrical devices, in catalogues and on the packaging.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Costs hidden...

      "The trouble is that the utility companies do all they can to hide these clues by averaging bills over long time periods, etc"

      There's no desire to "hide" what you're using, and in fact the information from at best two manual meter readings a year wouldn't tell you much even if it formed the basis of a non-averaged bill. The reason that we offer fixed monthly direct debits is because most people don't want the alternative: If you want to pay your bill quarterly (or even monthly) in full then there are options to do so, although you may have to search hard for them. Due to the variations in seasonal demand your winter energy bills will typically be three or four times higher than summer (or rather, you monthly 'leccy bill would be twice as high in winter as summer, and your gas bill about five times). And there's extra - in aggregate people who pay quarterly and monthly in full suffer more bad debt when the big bills roll in, so the tariffs are about 10% higher than the normal monthly direct debit.

      Residential monthly billing is particularly rare because of the need to send round a meter reader (or the onus is on the customer to accurately and regularly provide a customer read). Smart meters could solve that, but that's hardly justification for spending £14bn, mind you.

    3. Pallas Athena
      Go

      Re: Costs hidden...

      Truth is, it is perfectly possible to see which appliances cost you the most money - a simple device of a couple of euro's will tell you exactly how much your dryer has cost you the past few days/weeks. And of course, you can write down daily or weekly your meter readings. No smart meter needed, and no need to wait for the bill. More important - your smart meter will NOT help you identify which appliance cost you. It may -will- tell you your daily consumption, but it doesn't tell you why you consumed 2 kWh more yesterday than the day before. Correlating that consumption to particular devices boils down to guesswork, nothing more.

  6. JDX Gold badge

    Not cynical, just blind

    This has become an article of faith in the industry, and perhaps we're too cynical, but from Vulture Towers it seems the electricity bill has been fulfilling that role some years

    There are already devices you can buy which you attach to your main power line, and have a little display unit in your living room which tells you of your usage. These DO get people interested in seeing how much energy is used, and tracking down what is using power, because the immediate feedback of seeing the numbers spike when you run the kettle makes it more 'real'

    However, these are given out for free by some companies and they seem to work just as well as replacing the whole meter at a fraction of the cost. So while I totally reject El Reg's rejection of the suggestion a smart meter will save you money, I still agree with you that the whole scheme seems a bit daft.

    1. JDX Gold badge

      Re: Not cynical, just blind

      Although not having to let some guy inspect my meter reading every now and then is a blessing. And not having to keep track of my own meter readings so I can figure out exactly who would be the best provider based on real usage would be nice - sheer laziness but if someone else will record this so I don't have to, that's kind of the point of computers!

  7. codejunky Silver badge

    Or

    We could make a useful energy policy which generates electricity instead of green votes. Not saying we should go out of our way to pollute but by just producing plentiful cheap energy this exercise is moot. Yes there are people who waste energy. But there are also the rest of us who already turn everything off when we aint using it so we wont see any savings. All we see is a rising bill to pay for another turbine/statue which doesnt produce any usable energy.

    Lets reintroduce market forces and fix the problems of this country

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Or

      And occasionally tell some hippies to eat a dick. Exempt major infrastructure from objection unless your household is directly adversely affected by it.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Or

      "Lets reintroduce market forces and fix the problems of this country"

      You cannot be serious.

      It's letting market forces dictate energy supply policy and implementation that has led the UK to be in a situation where energy demand is likely to exceed energy supply in five to ten years.

      The CEGB had a legal obligation on security and continuity of electricity supply. There seems to be no such legal obligation on the privatised electricity companies, and as far as I can see, there is no particular financial incentive either (otherwise we wouldn't be in the rolling blackouts in 5-10 years situation).

      See also Enron/California electricity gaming.

      1. codejunky Silver badge

        Re: Or

        @AC

        "It's letting market forces dictate energy supply policy and implementation that has led the UK to be in a situation where energy demand is likely to exceed energy supply in five to ten years."

        Either you are kidding or you have been asleep for some time. The amount of market manipulation in place to harm energy production is nuts. We are being charged because of the gov decision to enforce green energy at any cost and then to demand wind/solar farms which barely produce any at extreme cost. Our bills are going up to pay for energy policy, not market forces.

        You can look to California all you want but this is the UK. It makes a big difference. What market forces are pushing this meter? Its gov policy.

        1. red death

          Re: Or

          I think you are conflating two issues - market manipulation to increase low/zero carbon power and privatisation.

          On the first it is no secret that it is happening and ultimately costs the consumer money.

          On the second there is no legal obligation for the generators to re-invest in new conventional (or nuclear) generating capacity which is a massive issue if you have lots of coal and nuclear plants coming to end of life. So you end up with a power generation gap and shortage of supply.

      2. JohnMurray
        Happy

        Re: Or

        No financial incentive.

        That would be why some are investing in large diesel-powered generating plant....as in several megawatts a time.

        http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2362762/The-dirty-secret-Britains-power-madness-Polluting-diesel-generators-built-secret-foreign-companies-kick-theres-wind-turbines--insane-true-eco-scandals.html

        There's no secret about the wind generator subsidies, but maybe nobody mentions that downgrading them to lower capacity can earn them greater subsides.

      3. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Or

        "The CEGB had a legal obligation on security and continuity of electricity supply."

        Did it, now? Last time I remember three day weeks and reading by candlelight was when the combined incompetence of state owned infrastructure failed to deliver power because the ingrates were on strike. Every aspect was owned and operated by the state, and still the bunglers couldn't do it right.

        Given your daft opinions I understand why you're posting AC.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Or

          And in ten years time, historians will be able to write:

          "Every aspect was owned and operated by the private sector, and still the bunglers couldn't do it right."

          Train travellers already know that putting some things into the private sector makes no sense at all.

          1. Destroy All Monsters Silver badge
            Paris Hilton

            Re: Or

            > Train travellers already know that putting some things into the private sector makes no sense at all.

            I don't think that state-run train infrastructure is ANYTHING to be proud of, except in the sense of tremendous destruction of wealth.

        2. John 110
          FAIL

          Re: Or

          @Ledswinger

          "failed to deliver power because the ingrates were on strike."

          I think you'll find they were working to rule. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Work-to-rule - what that link doesn't say is that working to rule causes slow-downs because corners have to be cut before the workers can meet quotas)

          My dad, who worked in a generating plant in the 70s, always said that their plant never dropped energy production, and that the power reductions were artificially imposed by management to discredit the workforce.

          I could also point out that these "ingrates" were campaigning for a living wage, but that'll cut no ice with someone like you.

          1. Destroy All Monsters Silver badge
            Paris Hilton

            Re: Or

            > and that the power reductions were artificially imposed by management to discredit the workforce

            Reading too much satanic mills exploitation literature? If management did that, why should it reflect on the workforce? Why wouldn't the papers (and not only the red-colored ones) be full of very large headlines? Wouldn't management be fired in a jiffy?

            As to campaigning for a living wage - everyone is campaigning for a living wage. But what happened to make the wage a non-living one? Why were people staying in that kind of industry in the first place? Did muscle need to be brought in to keep out scabs (basically, the proof of the pudding of a strike)? Context is important.

  8. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    While the savings for ordinary Brits and the GDP contribution of smart metering are debatable, the technology is already saving the corporation money: after all, those newly fitted devices won't need clipboard-waving meter readers visiting them.

    My understanding from reading postings on other forums is that gas supplies have a legal obligation to inspect the meter at least every 2 years on safety grounds. If they switch to smart meters then the result will be that the meter reader/inspector will only call every 2 years .... and if you're not in it may well immediately escalate to the letter that says "we will be coming thursday to inspect your meter - if we are unable to gain access then we will be required to apply to the courts for permission to break into your house to perform the necessary inspection"

    1. Danny 14

      the gas man doesn't need a court paper to break in. They are one of the few people who can legally break in.

  9. Anonymous Coward
    Big Brother

    More Big Brother

    Next the Government will make it mandatory to have an oxygen meter, with kill switch if you don't pay the bill or use too much.

  10. tony2heads
    Black Helicopters

    NSA

    I suppose this will all be streamed to the NSA so they can estimate how many people are in the house. Always useful when "the Cousins" (as they are referred to in the John le Carre novels) drop in

  11. Anonymous Coward 101

    Meter Readers

    The power companies are delighted that they are going to save money (and energy) on meter readers because of smart meters. Up until a couple of years ago, they sent around sales teams to mis-sell energy tariffs to old women. I wonder how much money and energy that wasted?

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Meter Readers

      "The power companies are delighted that they are going to save money (and energy) on meter readers because of smart meters"

      Oh no we aren't. You call installing a £260 device to save about £7 a year "saving money"? In forty years you'd recover the costs, but only if the capital is free. As it isn't, smart meters increase the costs by about £11 a year per meter.

      And what's more, the clowns of DECC have required the supply company (not the network operator) to install the things, so your average big power company with say 5m customers has to find around £2.5 billion quid to install new gas and electricity meters, then when you change supplier the new company will probably be leasing the old supplier's meter, cue much faffing around, complexity, cost and confusion behind the scenes.

  12. Flocke Kroes Silver badge

    Pay off in 2030?

    I have seen old gas and electricity meters that are still working fine decades after installation. Perhaps, with some effort you could get an embedded phone to last a decade. Expecting a communications protocol to last over a decade is optimistic. It might work in parts of the country that only get upgraded with second hand kit, but parts of the country will get shiny new kit without 17-year old legacy protocol support. The realistic budget has to include upgrading the electronics every five years or so.

    Perhaps if the new meters are really super accurate you will be able to measure the increase in you central heating costs caused by unplugging mobile phone chargers.

  13. Neil 8

    Quick question...

    Who pays for the electricity that the smart meter itself consumes? I'm sure they're quite efficient blah blah blah, but just wondering...

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Quick question...

      The same person who pays for the electricity the current meters use. You.

      Or, did you think the current meters somehow measured the energy being used without using any power?

      1. John Brown (no body) Silver badge
        FAIL

        Re: Quick question...

        "The same person who pays for the electricity the current meters use. You."

        As per the article, we are talking about gas meters. My current (and all previous) gas meter has an earth strap on it. There are no other wires. Just pipes which carry gas through a clever little mechanical device which makes some numbered wheels turn to display printed on digits in the little window. It cost nothing to run.

  14. Nifty Silver badge

    Did we overlook this?

    If you don't pay your bill they can cut off the power by SMS without entering your premises. Even when you are on holiday.

    1. plrndl

      Re: Did we overlook this?

      As can anyone else who hacks into the sytem.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Did we overlook this?

      "If you don't pay your bill they can cut off the power by SMS without entering your premises"

      Maybe, after about five letters and a visit to the property. That's because the regulator will fine energy companies if they cut off vulnerable customers, and the only way to establish that is to visit. In practical terms they probably wouldn't cut you off, they''d set a smart meter to pre-pay mode, and add any debt to the applicable tariff - and they have to notify you in advance.

      1. Bernard M. Orwell
        Black Helicopters

        Re: Did we overlook this?

        I doubt it's going to be used to just cut people off at the drop of a hat; that kind of kneejerk action is measurably detrimental to the companies reputation and reputation management is a big issue these days to most soulless corps. Imagine the furore the first time some OAPs power is cut off by an automated smart-meter in the middle of winter? The Daily Fail would have a field day about "evil robot technology is killing our old soldiers!"

        IMO, there is a far more unpleasant possibility. As we all know, oil/coal reserves are low and we are reliant, to a degree, on overseas supplies to keep our electricity up and running. You may have noticed that there have been "scares" lately, where UK national reserves of power have dipped below critical thresholds, resulting in headlines that suggest the UK has been "mere hours from brownouts/blackouts".

        If you were a government facing the possibility of the UK running out of power, even temporarily, would you not want a system to allow you to control rationing of power in the future?

        Say hello to smart-metering!

  15. easyk

    Air conditioning?

    In heated envoronments all waste heat offsets heating costs so is not wasted. How often is an English house running its air conditioning? Waste heat that cannot be harvested for heating is of course waste so turn off your outside lights. Seems like worrying too much about electricity consumption in your area is a waste of time.

    1. frank ly

      Re: Air conditioning?

      Very few domestic properties in the UK have air conditioning. The number of days in the year it would be regarded as 'must have', would usually be very low. Supermarkets, offices and cinemas often have air conditioning.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Air conditioning?

      "all waste heat offsets heating costs so is not wasted"

      To an extent.

      Mackay's freely downloadable book "Sustainable Energy Without the Hot Air" addresses this (and many other related topics).

      Basically, there's the small matter of overall efficiency (from raw fuel to premises heating) to consider.

      If you want 1kwH worth of heat, is it better to have 1kW of heat from 1kW of electrical appliances, which will have used maybe 1.5kW of input at the power station (the main losses being thermal efficiency, other losses may apply).

      Or is it better to have 1kW of input from gas to the home, and 1kW of output in the home.

      Grossly oversimplified (by me) as usual. Look it up in Mackay. He's not perfect but he's a good start.

      One thing I don't think Mackay mentions is that low grade heat for space and process heating could often be available as a byproduct of other industrial processes. And as such it might be close to free in some places. But that would require joined up thinking, something which "the markets" don't appear very keen on.

      1. JohnMurray

        Re: Air conditioning?

        Who would use electricity to heat where gas is available ?

        Electricity @ 13.4p/KWH (half price with off-peak) or gas @ 4.66p/KWH (first useage 8.4p/KWH)

        Quite.

        With my shiny new high-efficiency condensing boiler (gas) I can also save....well....no! Because the circulating water is only "allowed" (preset maximum) to be heated to 65C the thing is on a lot more....so now larger rads are needed. Joy.

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Air conditioning?

      The problem with this oft-cited nugget of 'wisdom' is that you get that 'waste' heat whether you want or need it, e.g. in the middle of summer. Replacing inefficient lighting and appliances isn't exactly cost effective, and it won't save the environment, but it will make a difference to your overall energy usage - arguments to the contrary are FUD.

      Consider also that a modern dedicated heating system generates and distributes heat far more efficiently than appliances emitting waste heat - that waste heat is useless if it's keeping the living room warm on a winter's night when everyone is asleep in the bedrooms.

  16. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    "Your latest bill blah blah, we owe you £260, which has been credited...etc etc"

    Wow, bet my monthly payment will go down.

    "The good news is your monthly payments do NOT have to change!"

    Well thanks, you criminal fucks. Just how much do you make in interest while hording our money?

    /the other way round

    "Your latest bill shows you owe us £1.53. Immediate payment is required or a warrant will issued for your arrest. Your monthly payments have been increased to £325"

    Utterly unrelated I know but thought I'd take the oppurtunity :)

    Oh and it'll need installed. Great, that's another fucking half day while incompetent buffoons install a new meter. Maybe they'll break my boiler again as a bonus!?

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Half day?

      EDF

      Last time they came to me I wass offered AM (8-1) or PM (1-6) as an option.

      I took AM (get to work for 2 i thought) and they never arrived to do the work.

      So £250 lost for not being at work plus another day off to plan for

      NO they do not compensate for "missed" appointments

  17. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    "We could make a useful energy policy which generates electricity instead of green votes"

    Not going to happen with the current batch of "public servants" running the Department, let alone with the current excuse for a Minister.

  18. Aitor 1

    Taxes

    In spain it is being used to know if houses ar inhabited. Because many people rent summer flats and don't declare the income.

    Ifthe houses are using electricity in a way that indicates that there are pple there, it is near a touristic beach and you get plenty of leccy consumed in the summer, expect the nice guys from "hacienda" to pay you a visit. Only that you will be the one paying, of course.

    Expect the same kind of "metadata" (as they call now spying without probable cause) being used for:

    -Detecting Hemp plantations (12hrs power spike preceded by 16 hours? ha!)

    -Council tax avoidance.

    -Criminal investigations (the smart meters also detect power factor.. therefore you can make an educated guess as if someone was watching tv as they say or not).

    -Plain old spying and private life intrusion (nothing to hide Sir?)

  19. Yet Another Commentard

    Useful explanation for non-Blighty readers

    I am sure some of our overseas friends will be a bit confused why Gas smart meters are measuring electricity. Well, thanks to the opening up of the energy market in the UK the (ex)Gas Board now sells electricity as well as gas. As do the many electric companies. Don't even start to think about water.

    1. Destroy All Monsters Silver badge

      Re: Useful explanation for non-Blighty readers

      Don't sweat it. "Utility bundling" happens elsewhere in Europe too. Gas, Electrons under Pressure ... same company.

  20. NIck Hunn
    Unhappy

    What it's really about

    There was an interesting perspective from a senior manager at a US energy supplier earlier this year. When asked what the best thing about their smart meter roll-out was at an industry conference, he claimed it was the fact that the data gave them a greater ability to blame the customer.

  21. Fab De Marco

    Pass those savings one British Gas

    Wow, with all that money they are saving, how about the reduce the unit cost of electricity and pass the savings on to the consumer. Radical I know.

    Whilst on the subject of unit costs, why have so fraking many?! The amount of energy suppliers is mental and each of those suppliers have an elaborate array of tariffs. Since the quality of the Gas and electric is constant regardless of tariff why even bother with different fees?

    One could argue heavier users qualify for cheaper unit costs in the same way as buying goods in bulk gets you a cheaper per unit prices, but I seriously doubt it works that way. The Gov. have been on about regulating this for a while, but I see nothing happening.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Pass those savings one British Gas

      "Wow, with all that money they are saving, how about the reduce the unit cost of electricity and pass the savings on to the consumer. Radical I know."

      The cost savings are negative, but rest assured they will be passed on to you, as part of the ever increasing proportion of your bill that pays for government mandated nonsense.

    2. This post has been deleted by its author

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Pass those savings one British Gas

        "Because if they had transparent charging you would be able to tell who was the cheapest and everyone would switch to whoever had the cheapest Tariff. "

        Obviously you've never heard of the concept of price comparison web sites? A novel innovation that means you don't have to do much work, and they'll give you every tariff in the land, in order of price. Not too hard for you, was that?

        "Basically, the entire concept of privatised electricity/gas and "competition" is based around using confusing Tariffs to trick customers into not leave after you edge the prices up."

        As it's piss easy to change suppliers, just shop round once a year, and if you're notified of an impending price rise. Are you twerp enough to just take your insurer's annual price hike? I doubt it, so why any big deal of energy prices? And the prices in Tesco change all the time, do you bleat pathetically about that too?

        Privatisation reduced prices significantly for a decade or so - there's a few reasons they've being going up over the past few years, partly world markets, but also Gordon Brown's economic incompetence that has caused sterling to slide, making any globally traded commodity more expensive, and DECC's idiot "green" and social policies that are currently adding about £150 a year to your bill. So the whole "privatisation is wrong" hand wringing ignores the expense, inefficiency and incompetence of state suppliers (maybe you're too young to remember how crap they were under state ownership, but I'm not).

  22. John70

    No Reception

    "The energy giant led the way towards the mandated smart-meters, relying on mobile phone networks to communicate with the new power meters rather than waiting for White Space or a 900MHz radio mesh network"

    And what if you're in an area with no reception?

    1. Crisp
      Boffin

      Re: No Reception

      And what if some wit decides to put a faraday cage around it?

      1. Metrognome
        Meh

        Re: No Reception

        You could; but all that you'd achieve is a switch (read re-installation) with one of the other comms modules.

        At the moment meters support:

        - Zigbee

        - GSM (All flavours)

        - CDMA

        - Wi-Fi

        - PowerLine Comms

        - M-Bus (IEC 870, EN 1434)

        - Optical (IEC 61107)

        Sure, be difficult all you like but my suggestion is that your energies would be better expended in lobbying and acting in coordination with consumer groups rather than be the single outlier who Quixotically thinks they can stem the tide.

  23. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Synchronicity

    This article appears on the same day my 32p Gas bill celebrates its 10th birthday.

    Congratulations British Gas!!

    PS, I STILL DONT HAVE ANY FECKING GAS APPLIANCES!!!!!!!!!

    Anyone care to estimate how much money/energy they have wasted sending me this bill every quarter for the last 10 years????

  24. Metrognome
    Boffin

    Warning long post ahead

    First a disclaimer: I have been working at the headquarters of the world's no. 1 metering company for 10 years till a year ago.

    There are a lot of myths and misinformation bandied about on the subject so let me try and dispel some of them.

    1) the smart meters are a clever way for the utilities to have a more fine grained picture of their network. However they aren't so foolish as to for them themselves. So this neat story is promoted (with a grain of truth, admittedly) that smart meters save people money. Hey presto OFGEM (the quintessential example of regulatory capture) argues to allow above inflation price hikes. (if they had grown a pair they would argue that the rollout should not be predicated on inflated prices).

    Power Factors: for the kind of loads of residential meters no PF circuitry is needed by the consumer. The measuring chips have a battery of algorithms to account for this.

    What you see now is a prelude. So far smart grids and the rest are driven by the meter manufacturers and the utilities. Wait for Cisco, IBM and Google to join and then things will go to the next level.

    Finally, BG's apparent hurry was because the regulator didn't specify a particular standard and this meant that the player to make it first in the market would be the defacto standard and could push for the features they want.

    And to the honourable conspiracy theorists I can testify that there are so many bungling fools on both sides (manufacturers, utilities, regulator) that a piss up in a brewery would be the absolute limit of their coordination.

  25. JohnMurray

    " that a piss up in a brewery would be the absolute limit of their coordination"

    You think ?

    I consider that remark massively optimistic.

  26. Arachnoid

    They aint investing millions for the good of their health.

    The use of smart meters also allows multiple tariffs to be charged to the same household depending on the time of day.So in high demand periods the tariff will naturally increase in an attempt to reduce demand and as a side effect increase revenue to the supplier.

    1. Destroy All Monsters Silver badge
      Headmaster

      Re: They aint investing millions for the good of their health.

      It's not like "regulation" will throw a spanner into the works of that fiendish plan to cruelly exploit the unsuspecting prolétariat via satanic capitalistic digital device magic.

      Additionally, if the price goes up and the demand decreases as a consequence, won't the total revenue stay approximately the same?

      Tired_Pirate.jpg

  27. Boris the Cockroach Silver badge

    And once

    everyone has a smart meter, and can see the power/gas they are using on a minute by minute basis, and reduce consumption to match, the energy supply companies will put the prices up as fast as they can to cover for the serious loss of income when everyone cuts consumption by 25%

    On the bright side we'll be able to turn off those huge nuclear and coal stations and rely totally on green eco friendly wind turbines .. bugger the power just went out and I've got 32 seconds of charge on the UPS.

  28. JaitcH
    Unhappy

    It's a pity Google killed their ...

    Smartmeter web site - it would be the ideal thing to max out data usage and present it to users in a readily readable format.

    1. This post has been deleted by its author

    2. Metrognome

      Re: It's a pity Google killed their ...

      Here's a bit of insider knowledge.

      Google et al. didn't kill their efforts. They just froze them. No need to enter the fray now while everything is fluid.

      Google, Cisco and IBM have smart grid firmly on their sights but won't enter the space until:

      1) Standards and interoperability is ensured (70% of the way there on this one)

      2) Taxpayer funded roll-outs are completed and smart meters reach critical mass (not even 20% of the way on that).

      Reasoning: How do you justify higher prices/taxpayer-billpayer subsidies to roll out the network if Google et al. are seen to be bathing in a sea of money like Scrooge McD? So they're biding their time, waiting for the traditional players to slug it out and then once one of them (Itron, Landis+Gyr, etc.) prevails snap them up, fold'em in and take over the market.

      In fact, ALL metering manufacturers and utilities are way out of their depth when it comes to data management, security or exploitation of the wealth of data provied by these meters.

  29. Arachnoid

    The prolétariat is revolting

    Well they are if they think there's any real savings to be had in the long run given as fast as usages lower so prices will increase proportionally.As for win turbines please..........they are an ad mans dream but in real world terms about as practical as every house having a 60s style flying car.

    1. Destroy All Monsters Silver badge
      Paris Hilton

      Re: The prolétariat is revolting

      ...and thusly?

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: The prolétariat is revolting

      The Chavs are even more disgusting...

  30. AD

    The one really useful thing a smart gas meter could do would be to detect abnormal flow rates and shut off the supply in such a case to minimie the effect of a suspected leak. Clearly it coulde even call 999 for you and report the fault, however it would be rather unfortunate if that call was to then trigger an explosion. Anyone know of they are working on such a "smart" function?

    1. Metrognome

      Don't worry, such a function is a long way off.

      The reason is that currently the meter does not have the necessary granularity to result in any acceptable rate of false positives.

      Until appliances become networked, or at minimum report their own flows to the meter, the picture the meter has isn't sufficient to correctly identify anything before the old-fashioned fuses and safety relays kick in.

  31. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Indoors or outdoors?

    I have an outdoors gas meter. Should they go "smart" will they need to be moved inside? And if so, who's going to pay to redcorate the hallway after the feckwits bugger up the installation making a mess everywhere?

  32. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    It's all a scam.

    I work in this field and the amount of cash being wasted in the name of the environment and then billed to energy users is scandalous. Just like the "Energy Company Obligation", these bullshit schemes are all about job creation. And even better for the politicians, all these schemes have no direct cost to the government and the masses of pointless jobs are classed as green jobs, which they can then spin on TV as the "UK creating massive numbers of jobs in new cutting edge green technologies".

    The alternative is that within 5 years we could very cheaply build several new power stations powered by fracked gas and close down many of our older (and very polluting ) power stations. Then cancel all these other bullshit schemes and you would still see a sizable drop in emissions, plus your energy bills would drop by at least a third. Bear in mind that domestic energy use is a fraction of business use and you can imagine what effect these savings would have in boosting the economy.

  33. johnnytruant

    not sure how accurate this is

    ..but one electricity company told me that sending a chap round to do a meter read costs them £50 a time.

    On that basis alone, a smart meter should save me at least £100/year.

    While I'm sure someone will be saving that money, I'm fairly sure it won't be me.

    1. Greg 16

      Re: not sure how accurate this is

      I'd be surprised if it was that much. I had a temporary job as a meter reader about 15 years ago and back then the company was charging less than £10 per reading.

      Also regarding the savings, bear in mind that the mobile companies are going to be making quite a large amount of money out of this, plus your meter will still be physically read every 2 years.

      The EU law which is causing these meters to be fitted actually contained the phrase "if economical". Almost all of Europe has decided that it is in no way economical, and therefore they're not fitting the meters.

  34. OzBob

    Semi-serious questions,...

    will the council be able to obtain a court order for your power records to prove it was you using the electric hedge-trimmer at the alleged time? Also, will they match power usage against council tax rates to project occupancy figures? (If you are on a single occupancy rate)

    They have done this for rubbish bins, why not power usage?

  35. Electric sheep
    Thumb Down

    So do they get their power from the mains before or after the sensors?

    If its after and you use sod all energy they will actually put your bill up.;

    1. Metrognome
      Stop

      The meters ARE the sensors :)

      So no, the meter's own consumption is not calculated in the bill.

      As for gas meters, there is one great big unsung innovation. They can work and run (opening and closing the supply valve if necessary) for over 10 years on a couple of D-size batteries. (Of course they are special Thionyl Chloride ones rated @19Ah but still...)

  36. Alan Denman

    A Fat cat 'sod the secutity and your local economy'

    So whilst this may make you a target for thieves checking you are away from home, more local jobs will be gone forever just to feed the greed of those millionaires in the sky.

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