DON'T PANIC about methane

This topic was created by Masked Avenger .

  1. This post has been deleted by its author

  2. Anonymous Custard

    CNN

    Can someone please tell CNN Europe? They were on about it all morning today - was almost a relief to turn it off and come to work (on a foreign business trip, so about the only English language TV is CNN and hotel wifi is too crap for streaming either TV or radio).

  3. freeman-number-2
    Headmaster

    Lewis Page, once again to the rescue.

    Single-handedly out-sciencing most scientists in the world. And why not, he trained as a square-basher after all, and who better to knock a bit of sense into namby-pamby science fairies.

    Lewis Page.

    Science.

    Yawn.

  4. TeeCee Gold badge

    Yes......but.

    It's already been known for some time that Methane Hydrate deposits occur over long periods of time. For a start the usual quoted source is runoff of from rivers rich in methane from decaying plant matter and such (there's a massive deposit still accumulating off the mouth of the Amazon for example). Thus you have to suspect that the polar deposits have been there for some time, as warm rivers rich in runoff from forests or jungles aren't exactly typical of the area these days.

    Now, it's also well know that these do emit fairly significant quantities of methane naturally. What's not known is how much effect oceanic warming would have on that, although it is reasonable to suspect that once the water around the deposits warms to the extent that Methane Hydrate is no longer stable.........(!)

    I don't see anything here that contradicts that, only confirmation that these deposits do emit methane naturally. This we already new.

  5. 404
    Facepalm

    So essentially

    We're all going to be killed by dinosaur farts?

    I was once victim of a gas war, in winter time, in an enclosed truck, over a two week period*. We're all gonna die.

    Dayum

    ;)

    *TMI? Maybe, but I can relate.

  6. breakfast Silver badge

    An obvious solution presents itself

    So in the worst case there would be a lot of methane , which is a worse greenhouse gas than CO2, being released into the atmosphere. As someone who generally holds with the scientific method, this sounds like bad news.

    I don't see why the only way to mitigate this is to stop creating CO2 altogether and move entirely to other forms of energy, though.

    Perhaps, an alternative would be to capture the methane, burn it for energy ( still releasing CO2 but that is only 5% as bad as the methane ) and have lots of energy while also saving the world! Also could reduce need for coal somewhat, potentially saving more carbon than it releases. A plan with no drawbacks. Or at least, only 5% drawbacks.

    1. annodomini2

      Re: An obvious solution presents itself

      Capturing methane from 360,000 square miles of sea could be an issue.

  7. Robert Helpmann??
    Childcatcher

    Quite Safe

    Nuclear... has been shown to be quite safe by the Fukushima incident (which is set to cause absolutely no measurable health consequences to anyone from radiation)....

    This is a bit disingenuous given that there is a 20km exclusion zone around the site. There have been plenty of problems caused by the mass displacement of the people who used to live there. There might have been no direct consequences to people's immediate physical well-being due to the incident, but there are plenty of indirect effects. There have been demonstrable effects to the mental health of displaced individuals. Too, it is a bit harsh the wholesale dismantling of local communities resulting from the incident.

    I back nuclear power. However, the only thing accomplished by not making a reasonably complete disclosure of risk is that anyone in a position to make a decision on it will simply ignore proponents in favor of other options.

    1. codejunky Silver badge
      Mushroom

      Re: Quite Safe

      @Robert Helpmann??

      "There have been demonstrable effects to the mental health of displaced individuals."

      Wait wait wait. So there are measurable effects on the mental health because they were moved. Accepting they were moved and were kept out due to over caution (which you might agree with but it is that causing the damage not the radiation). So your blaming not nuclear as a problem with nuclear?

      "Too, it is a bit harsh the wholesale dismantling of local communities resulting from the incident."

      Considering people were moved out of the nearby vicinity as radioactive steam was to be released that would travel in their direction. Although the steam would be nothing but steam and not radioactive by the time it reached the road. The whole event was blown out of proportion and even better than that it is considered the second worst disaster for nuclear. Nobody died and injuries were few and far between.

      "I back nuclear power. However, the only thing accomplished by not making a reasonably complete disclosure of risk is that anyone in a position to make a decision on it will simply ignore proponents in favor of other options."

      Who will explain the risks? Will it be the people who use the image attached? Like the BBC describing the dangerous nuclear station (ignoring thousands dead but reporting the danger that killed nobody). We cant have a fact based decision until the people accept the facts and give up on the monster under the bed.

  8. Wzrd1 Silver badge

    First, "Because of the lengthy scientific publishing cycle there aren't yet any published papers, but the results were so clear - and so important - that the scientists aboard the ship were happy to reveal them publicly."

    No peer review, no full review of the data collected, but already a conclusion that is so happily embraced by El Reg. Well, we can guess who is contributing to the income of said publication.

    Issues with the study:

    "The gas outlets off Spitsbergen lie approximately at a depth which marks the border between stability and

    dissolution."

    Problematic already on two points:

    1: They're measuring at an equilibrium point that can vary seasonally or even with changes in current, not slightly below the equilibrium point for methane hydrate, something that has been rather well studied and the properties well enough understood.

    2: Small sample size, only one region was studied, more study over varying areas needs to be conducted to gain a more complete picture. That is especially true considering the fault above.

    El Reg's conclusion is also faulty, as for the above reasons and the well established reason that methane hydrate is already well known to dissolve and disperse seasonally throughout the world, it's the amount and timing that is critical. Add in the known issue of arctic accumulation of methane that is a normal factor in the region due to the action of weather, again, more study is necessary.

    Even then, El Reg further compounds their error by assuming that any action performed now is useless, for bad is bad equally. So, by El Reg's reasoning, if I have a pot on the stove catch fire, I should do nothing, as there is already a fire. Simple common sense tells one, as has fire science has proved, putting out that small fire prevents it from becoming worse. Such as when one's house then catches fire and burns to the ground.

    In short, preventing bad from becoming worse. Something El Reg's contributors do not wish to mention, as such may interfere with their short term profit.

    And I say El Reg for a reason, the author of the story had to have the story reviewed and approved for publication. Repeated stories that contradict dozens to hundreds of other research papers being so heavily trumpeted here display a general trend that can only be ascribed to being the benefactor of certain deep pocketed special interests.

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