4giv me, father, 4 I hav sinned.
"I spent all night looking at pron on my iPad."
"Never mind, my son. Say 4 Hail Marys, and tweet me the URL"
The Catholic Church is handing out indulgences promising time off purgatory in exchange for a simple tweet. The Pope previously promised that anyone attending the Rio World Youth Day would be handed a get-out-of-hell-free card, or an indulgence as they were once known. These offer forgiveness for sins, allowing the recipient …
I'm probably going to hell for this but...
How can they take themselves seriously?
What does it take for the poor deluded souls to admit that all religion is nothing more than a means for some people to control others?
There should be an inverse relationship between religion and science - and by now the religion side of the scale should be at zero - what went wrong*?
* I'm guessing the word eduction will be in the answer
Your lack of understanding is possibly the issue here. However on this topic - indulgences - I will agree it is ridiculous even if everything else you say is foolishness (namely the religion is just control people... you're thinking of institutionalised organised religion, which is a subset of religion).
When I read about the issuance of indulgences back in the Middle Ages (the Golden Age of Catholicism), I kinda had to wonder...
If these guys believe in a god that casts people into a special laundromat in the sky to wash away their sins, surely that god would have to sign on to validate the get-out-of-the-wash-free coupons the church issued, right?
I mean, what on earth makes anyone think these indulgences would even be valid? What theological argument would compel some divine being to accept time-off coupons handed out by a bunch of blokes here on earth? By that logic, isn't it a bit like me printing off a bunch of coupons for shiny iThings and handing them out to my friends, in the hopes that the Apple store would accept them? (Not that I'm comparing Apple to a divine supernatural creator of all the universe, mind.)
Re "By that logic, isn't it a bit like me printing off a bunch of coupons for shiny iThings and handing them out to my friends, in the hopes that the Apple store would accept them? (Not that I'm comparing Apple to a divine supernatural creator of all the universe, mind.)"
From what I can work out Apple-ophiles do indeed think that Apple is indeed divine, and the Messiah was Steve Jobs, and everything that comes out of Cupertino is manna from Heaven, and don't mind selling their soul to acquire stuff made by Apple.
But I guess they're almost as deluded as the average Religious person.
I guess at least the Apple-ophiles get some transitory material happiness, unlike the lot that are promised it all when they die.
Personally I worship science, and shared practical knowledge, and Richard Dawkins is one of my Messiahs.
The idea is that Jesus told the disciples before he ascended to heaven that "What the church holds true on earth, god holds true in heaven" or some words to that effect.
Basically - the church can say whatever it wants and god will make it true.
The idea is ridiculous and I am surprised the church is still using it, as anyone with half a brain would realize that if this is the case, the church could magic away all the world's ills with but a word from the pope.
So either he isn't doing it (In which case he is a bit of a bastard) or he can't (he is faking it).
Either way, it single-handedly disproves the legitimacy of the church.
But indulgences don't let you avoid hell, or purgatory for that matter. They can lessen your time in purgatory, but that's it.
Assuming you believe any of it, of course.
Can't blame the writer for getting it wrong though. This kind of arcane information can only be found buried deep in the... well, the first paragraph of the wiki page on indulgences actually :\
Can I trade or sell any indulgences I acquire?
- How do we verify our indulgence is genuine and not a shitty Protestant knock off?
- Does an indulgence accrue interest?
- Is an indulgence taxable and if so are there deductions related to the maintenance of the indulgence.
- Who is the accountable body for warranty service?
- What are the privacy policies? Will my information be sold or traded to partners?
This is simply a rush job in an attempt to get first mover advantage over competitors. The other guys get 72 virgins so I can see where a distinctive, non lethal product offering might be advantageous, but that doesn't excuse shoddy policy development with no recourse available to the consumer. It might show some short term traction but historically these sorts of things only end up with the end user holding the bag.
You forgot the most important question: are these indulgences fungible? Can I take a bunch of minor sin indulgences and combine them for a more major sin?
Obviously, if that is the case then a proper free market for indulgences will emerge, allowing for a cap-and-trade system to reduce sin over-all: major sinners will have to purchase indulgences on the free market, while people committing minor sins will be encouraged to not sin, but rather sell their indulgences on the free market. Eventually, a stock market for indulgences will appear, allowing companies to trade future indulgences for present sins, or to allow raising enough indulgences to allow for significant investment in sin for growth, with eventual indulgences used to pay off the bonds and stocks so issued. Plan on poisoning a small town? Issue an indulgence bond! Accidentally poison a larger town? Write it off against future earnings! Need to incentivize the board? Issue indulgence options, and write them off to future dilution!
Bravo, sir!
Best line so far.
As to the matter at hand, it's so far beyond silliness that Monty Python wouldn't touch if for fear it had taken absurdity just a wee bit too far.
But I'll be tweeting like Billy-O, just in case.
No, you can't sell or trade indulgencies.
The idea of an indulgence is that if you commit a sin, you can reduce the divine punishment you receive for it by performing a good deed to offset the bad things you did.
For example, if you attacked and injured someone, then you could spend some time volunteering at your local hospital's a&e [en:us - emergency room]. If you vandalised public property, then spend time cleaning up the mess made by other vandals. If you were a drugs dealer, then spend some time helping addicts come off drugs.
Merely buying a bit of paper is not a good deed that can make up for the bad things you have done.
Trading of indulgences or other spiritual goods by church officials for temporal gain, in this case twitter following. According to Dante that gets you into the 3rd bolgia of the 8th circle of hell, stuck upside down in a hole with fire burning your feet, until the next sinner comes along and you get pushed down to make room.
Hmm, I've just realised - Dante invented stack architecture.
The sarcasm of the article is justified. Catholicism should be scorned by all, even Catholics because it is a false representation of Christianity, and has been that way since it became the official religion of the Roman Empire.
Martin Luther was right on target with his 95 Theses, as were the other ex-Catholic priests like Calvin, Zwingli, etc who were thrown out of Catholicism when they started teaching the Bible as the Word of God instead of putting the words of sinful men above the Bible.
"You" (I am only 53, not 1300)
"let the Jews get it wrong for 1300 years" (who said Moses was wrong?They were God's representatives to the human race until they rejected Jesus their Messiah, and were temporarily set aside until the 2nd Coming).
"then send the kid along" (who might "the kid" be? An awfully blasphemous way to refer to the Lord Jesus Christ your Creator; and I didn't send anyone)
"but they are wrong for 1500 years" (yes) "until a monk comes along to say they were wrong" (Martin Luther was rebuking the Pope and his religion for pretending to sell God's forgiveness for cash; as far as I know, the pope, whom he referred to as the Antichrist, was the chief focus of his writings, not the Jews, so you are clearly confusing apples and oranges.)
"A bit like patch-Tuesdays" (what?)
I'm nominally Catholic (but disagree with a lot of their teachings), but this seems pretty silly. If there is a God, I really don't think he's going to pay attention to the Pope's decrees that this or that person is absolved of some time in The Bad Place in return for posting a Really Heartfelt short message. I kinda suspect he's going to make up his own mind on the subject...
Dude, if Jesus isn't following your Twitter feed you need to step up your game. You can also Friend Him on Facebook. He doesn't update his page much but best to cover your bases. Since the SEC now allows public disclosure of corporate operational issues through social media the Rapture will certainly be announced first there, simply to save on the Bloomberg filing fees.
You can try LinkedIn too, but he's only connected with 12 fisherman, a hobo from Argentina and some trashy Jewish princess from his early post synagogue days. His professional contacts seem fairly specialized and unless you're a fisherman he probably won't connect with you. You can endorse him though, he might slide you a few indulgences on the side...
@SirWired 1
"I'm nominally Catholic (but disagree with a lot of their teachings),"
I used to ask my girlfriend this one- If your catholic then surely your catholic? Not a half in pick and mix version? If you are a pick and mix version then you are probably one of the other religions. Or possibly even atheist.
I guess the thumb down is from a maybe catholic? Or a non-practising catholic? Or a catholic who doesnt believe the stuff in the book? Or a catholic who disagrees with the catholic teachings?
I am rigging chance here as there are more of the above than there are catholics. Catholic catholics that is
@P Saunders
"
here i was thinking...
...that this type of crap went out with the inquisition. Is society moving backwards all of a sudden?"
MMCC co2 theory. Windfarms that produce no power but will save the world. Blair the catholic crusader is the middle east peace (or pieces?) envoy. Wasnt slow but wasnt sudden.
Not sure. Zwingli, for instance (I live in the "Zwinglistadt"), not only banned just about all forms of pleasure and relaxation, including singing, dancing and most holidays; he also tried to purify the world rather forcefully. This resulted in "heretics" being hunted like animals even in the countryside, execution by drowning, pogroms, war with other cantons and so on, until he himself died in battle. Calvin and others were in the same mould. The "pilgrim fathers" wanted the same, achieving it only be emigrating (just look how wonderful their legacy is in the "religious" and "moral" life of USA) and certain Muslim movements in, e.g. Nigeria, Afghanistan and so on are fellow spirits.
As with communism, religion is not the problem. True religion has not been tried.
"'True' religion is practiced everyday by millions of people, just not in an institutionalized way. Institutionalized religion implies that God has an ego and is one hell of a pendant. Seems a bit off for an all powerful super being to be interested in any of those things."
I've always wondered why God would want people grovelling around and singing dreary songs at him all the time.
"I've always wondered why God would want people grovelling around and singing dreary songs at him all the time."
Because he made man in God's image and that particular man happens to be Kim Jong Un?
I can never understand where this idea comes from that if God exists, he must be benevolent and/or rational.
Trust me, God does not only exist, but is in complete charge of all things. I know that you probably think with all the chaos in the world that God doesn't have a clue what's going on; but as someone who has edited, translated, and published the Holy Bible as the Kingdom Bible version in several editions since 2001, this world is going to butt heads with its Creator in a very painful way, and that reckoning is not far away.
You should look carefully at the Kingdom Bible version, which shows the true format of the Bible as no other Bible version can, and you will know beyond a shadow of a doubt that practically everything you've been told or believed about the Bible (going by the unbelieving tone of your post) is completely false.
It is the one and only true Word of God, because the Golden Ratio pattern of UCCOO (One Unique, Two Complementary, and Two Opposite) guarantees its authenticity as the only Book of Divine Origin in this Universe. Check it out and see at www.phibible.org, if you have the courage to look.
Must resist the urge to feed the troll!
Then again, it's breakfast time so he's probably hungry right now.....
This so reminds me of the cheap adverts at the back of Fortean Times, advertising books that will bring enlightenment by following some path that's been derived from one of the popular "mystical" groups from the past. Always it's some new interpretation of an ancient manuscript or belief system, which somehow has been mis-interpreted for however many thousands of yesrs until the one true prophet finally appears.
No troll here. I understand your doubting, but I'm not selling anything. There's not a single thing for sale anywhere on my site at any price. Look and see. I am not a prophet either, just a Bible translation missionary. Why don't you take a look for yourself instead of throwing spears and arrows at something you clearly don't understand? I understand your fear of the Word of God, because I once feared the Bible and wouldn't touch it with a ten-foot pole. After I believed in Jesus and received Him as my Savior, then I knew and understood that the Bible was indeed of Divine origin, and it must be believed, received, and obeyed.
The 7th Edition of the Kingdom Bible is in preparation, but I have published Genesis, Exodus, and Numbers here (http://www.phibible.org/Bible_Pages/ReadTheKingdomBibleOnline.html) for the public to see for themselves. It is all free and without obligation of any kind. Try it and see. You've got nothing to lose, except your sins and destiny in the Lake of Fire.
@loneranger
"Trust me, God does not only exist, but is in complete charge of all things."
Trust you? Should I just take your word on it? If I am to trust you based on just your words then why should I not just trust one of the many other religions who themselves tell me to trust them? I can be certain for every person claiming to know the truth there are another load queuing up with a different answer but certain they are right.
"but as someone who has edited, translated, and published the Holy Bible as the Kingdom Bible version in several editions since 2001"
Which version? I will assume christian version. So is it the bible of god (old testament) or the bible of a man/prophet/son of god (new testament)? The difference is huge as the bible of god shows a violent and petty monster who has no problem with killing as long as its done in his name. If it is the bible of the other guy then it is a completely different and fairly incompatible description.
I have left out the obvious problem that many other scripts exist of the 'event' from around the same times yet were selectively left out of the bible as the wrong version or giving the wrong impression.
There was an interesting documentary a while ago showing the few hundred people left in this world still worshipping the old testament god. Slaughtering goats in sacrifice and such.
"It is the one and only true Word of God"
There are a lot of those going around. This is where people struggle to believe. Because every version is right but every version is different. And the only conclusion left is that they are wrong. Because thinking about it there is no evidence to promote any one above the others. We are all free to our beliefs but we cannot be surprised that our far out beliefs are not just accepted as truth.
"I've always wondered why God would want people grovelling around and singing dreary songs at him all the time."
Reminds me of that part of Amazing Grace that goes, 'When we've been gone ten thousand years, bright shining as the sun, we've no less days to sing His praise, than when we'd first begun' which has always struck me as creepy, frightening or dull, dull, deadly dull!
That's because you don't know the true God as your Savior. As a young man, I sat in church and heard Christians singing these hymns and thought, "What all the excitement about? Who is Jesus? Who cares?"
But after I repented of my sins and accepted Jesus Christ as my personal Savior, and He came into my life, I realized the glad truth of these words, because to know Jesus is to love Him. The joy of salvation and knowing that your destiny is Heaven and not the Lake of Fire brings incredible joy and peace.
The Apostle Peter explained it this way, "whom having not seen, you love; in whom, though now you do not see him, yet believing, you rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory; receiving the result of your faith, even the salvation of your souls." (I Peter 1:8-9)
Yes, I used to think that way too, because I didn't understand the Gospel of Jesus Christ. He loved me so much that He became a man and died on a cross that I might come to know Him as my loving Lord and Savior from sin and Hell. What I didn't realize was that, while I hadn't robbed any banks nor mugged any old ladies (which I thought made me a good person), I was very much a sinner in the sight of a Holy God whose destiny was the Lake of Fire. The great news of the Gospel is that Jesus paid the penalty for ALL of my sins on the cross and rose again from the dead. All I needed to do was BELIEVE:
1) that I was indeed a sinner in the eyes of a Holy God
2) that Jesus had indeed paid for all of my sins
3) that Jesus had indeed risen bodily from the grave the 3rd day
RECEIVE:
1) Repent of my sins and acknowledge to God that I was a sinner
2) Ask Jesus Christ to come into my heart and save me
3) Thank Jesus for saving me and giving me new life and a new hope
I've been a born again Christian for almost 32 years, and I've known this same Jesus personally as my Lord and Savior since the day that I believed and received Him.
All of the Reformers (in spite of their refusal to completely forsake Catholicism as they should have) discovered the very same truth which I just explained to you, which is why they and the anabaptists were persecuted, burned at the stake, and (except the baptists) chased out of the Catholic religion (notice I didn't say "Church").
God loves you in spite of all of the hateful, wicked things you all have said about him and His Word, the Holy Bible. But once your body dies, there will be no more opportunities to be saved, and the Way will be shut forever. Repent and trust in Him now, before it is eternally too late. You will never regret believing in Jesus. I'm so glad I did.
Jesus said, "I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life: no man comes to the Father, but by me" (John 14:6)
You are correct about the Reformers, as they were all trying to remain in the Catholic mold without the outward purification. They held onto State religion, which always results in persecution of anyone who disagrees with the State religion, no matter what brand it might be: Islam, Catholicism, Buddhism, Hinduism, or Protestantism. This is why Baptists were so intent on getting the First Amendment into the Constitution of the US that would guarantee their right to worship as they pleased without persecution from the majority Anglican Protestants, including the Massachusetts Bay Colony Protestants. If it were not for John Leland, a Baptist minister who persuaded James Madison to include the First Amendment to the Constitution, the US today would no doubt have an official state "Church" patterned after the Church of England, which all American citizens would support through their taxes. Thank God for John Leland and the Baptists who have championed religious liberty for all, even for those with whom they disagree.