back to article How did something so small and pink cause so much trouble?

Today, we publish the next extract from SA Mathieson's book on ID cards in Britain, following on from the political wrangling over the controversial technology in the 1990s and 2000s. All that remained before the 2010 general election was the Mancunian trial of the new UK identity card. On 30 November 2009, Manchester Evening …

COMMENTS

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  1. Dazed and Confused

    Finger print readers

    OK, the finger print reader on my laptop is probably shit, but it stopped working when I decided to undo a nut and bolt on my car by hand, thus scratching the end of my finger tips. I wonder how good their finger print readers are when instead of dealing with someone with a "desk job" instead they have to deal with someone who does real manual labour?

    Of course the planning will be done by some Whitehall mandarin who's never got his hands dirty, but what about the real world?

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Thumb Down

      Re: Finger print readers

      Yes they probably should have had iris recognition systems as well.

      1. Crisp

        Re: Finger print readers

        And a colon map as a backup.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Thumb Up

          Re: Finger print readers

          :

          :

          :

          :

          :

          :::::::::::::::::::::::

          :

          :

          :

          :

          Colon map of my cul-de-sac.

        2. Jedit Silver badge
          Holmes

          "And a colon map as a backup"

          The colon map should have been the default plan. They could have tested it by sticking it up their arses.

        3. Euripides Pants

          Re: Finger print readers

          Butt what happens when the colon backs up?

          1. cortland

            Re: Finger print readers

            Semicolonoscopy; right?

  2. Marvin O'Gravel Balloon Face
    FAIL

    The ID card and national database was a role reversal of accountability which would have been a significant step down the road to tyranny. It is not the place of politicians to license the existence of the public. It is the place of the public to license the existence of their politicians.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      WTF?

      Tyranny

      Yet the list of countries that already have a National ID card contains many that aren't know for being tyrannical dictatorships?

      1. Mystic Megabyte
        Big Brother

        Re: Tyranny

        In France the paramilitary CRS will come to your town every year and ask teenagers to produce their identity cards. Failure to produce the card results in being hit around the head with a baton.

        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compagnies_R%C3%A9publicaines_de_S%C3%A9curit%C3%A9

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Thumb Down

          Re: Tyranny

          And yet strangely France is one of the countries where ID cards aren't compulsory. Yet more proof perhaps that they aren't necessarily the cause of 'La tyrannie'?

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Tyranny

            To be fair, ID cards are not compulsory in France, but you're being asked for ID often, very, very often. Any official paperwork needs an ID. And a lot of non official one, like for renting a home, opening a bank account, ...

            So you get to choose between the ID card or the passport. Driving licenses are somewhat less useful, as they're proof of identity but not of nationality.

            That said, I don't really understand what's with the Anglo-Saxons and their hatred of the idea of government-issued proof of identity (implementation details like fingerprints are irrelevant - apparently, any dumb piece of paper with a picture glued on it would be received just as angrily as long as there's a government stamp on it).

            1. AdamT

              Re: Tyranny

              It wasn't the ID card itself that was the problem - it was the National Database it was going to be attached to. The purpose of that was to link all possible government databases and records into one place. Most of the countries being held up as examples of ID cards working fine and being supported by their citizens have specific laws in place to say the the government is not allowed to do that so the ID card only does what it says it does: proves you are who you say you are, that you are a citizen (or have right of residence, etc.) and, perhaps, where you live. Ours would also have allowed "appropriate officials and other authorised parties" access to a whole lot more personal information than that...

              1. David Hicks
                FAIL

                Re: Tyranny

                Hehe. I wrote to my MP about ID cards, stating very much what you just put there "It's not so much the card I object to, it's the huge database behind the scenes and its massive privacy implications, not to mention all the people you propose giving access to".

                Three months later I got a letter back saying "We understand your objections, but this scheme is not just an identity card! There's this huge unified database thingy behind it too! And it'll be accessible to all these public servants!"

                All of which made it abundantly clear that no, you did not understand my objections or even read them. Muppets.

            2. John Smith 19 Gold badge
              Unhappy

              Re: Tyranny

              "That said, I don't really understand what's with the Anglo-Saxons and their hatred of the idea of government-issued proof of identity (implementation details like fingerprints are irrelevant - apparently, any dumb piece of paper with a picture glued on it would be received just as angrily as long as there's a government stamp on it)."

              Because in some countries there is a historic presumption that no ones identity needs a bit of paper or plastic card linked to a nationwide database to prove who they say they are while they are just walking along a street/sitting in a park/generally existing.

              The UK Civil Servants (aided and abetted by whatever sock pocket is pretending to be in charge of the Home Office) also has a very distressing addiction (or fetish) for collecting absurdly broad amounts of personal data.

              IOW They just can't be trusted.

            3. Throatwobbler Mangrove
              Facepalm

              Re: Tyranny

              "I don't really understand what's with the Anglo-Saxons and their hatred of the idea of government-issued proof of identity"

              Because mind your own business, that's why.

          2. Scott Wheeler

            Re: Tyranny

            > And yet strangely France is one of the countries where ID cards aren't compulsory.

            Up to a point. You are not required to carry it, but if you don't, you can be held for up to three days while someone fetches it for you.

        2. Pascal Monett Silver badge

          Re: "the [..] CRS will come to your town every year"

          You make it sound like an annual fair or something.

          And you forget to mention that the Gendarmerie (whose members are counted among the nations armed forces - just like the army) has offices all over national territory as well.

          C'est bon, on avoue : nous sommes bien une dictature !

        3. Anonymous Coward 101

          Re: Tyranny

          "In France the paramilitary CRS will come to your town every year and ask teenagers to produce their identity cards. Failure to produce the card results in being hit around the head with a baton.

          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compagnies_R%C3%A9publicaines_de_S%C3%A9curit%C3%A9"

          In the lower photo used on Wikipedia, the CRS look like they have modelled themselves on Judge Dredd. The one in the middle is especially delighted with himself.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Stop

            Re: Tyranny

            You say that as if you feel the CRS hitting teenagers on the head with a baton is a bad thing?

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Windows

              Re: Tyranny

              Especially French ones!!!!!

            2. Ben Rosenthal

              Re: Tyranny

              Sounds like a damn good plan.

              ID card or not, teenagers are always up to bloody something and could probably use a good dose of clepped lugs on a regular basis.

    2. Keep Refrigerated
      Unhappy

      Let's face it...

      We're already under a global tyranny of having to carry passports when we want to travel beyond certain invisible borders.

      Real freedom would mean real (pre-WW1) freedom of movement. A prison the size of a million football fields is still a prison.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Stop

        Re: Let's face it...

        And now from our department of recycled comments ........

        ^^^ Fruit loop batshit paranoia

    3. Chad H.
      WTF?

      @ Marvin

      Yet my "Existence" was "licensed" by the state on the day of my birth, and the cessation of such existence will be "licensed" when I eventually do kark it.

      As it is for billions of others across the planet.

      All this would have done in real terms, is replace an old document thats easy to lose and forge, with one thats a bit harder.

      Shall I call oxford and tell them the definition of the word "Tryany" has changed, or do you want to do it?

  3. Phil W

    Decisive action and commitment

    The success of a scheme like this is dependent on decisive action and commitment to the project.

    If you're going to replace a current and working system, a system that has to be known about and recognized by global travel companies and international governments, then you need to commit to it and do it totally and ensure all of the aforementioned parties are aware of it.

    Regardless of whether the concept of the ID cards was good or not, the only way it would ever have worked would have been to stop issuing passports and start issuing ID cards instead nationwide, phasing out passports as they expire. Anything less just leads to confusion and a system no-one is properly aware of or understands.

    1. Phil W

      Re: Decisive action and commitment

      To add to that....no UK government since Thatcher has really been able to make decisive actions and commit to them fully.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Thumb Up

        Yes

        Amen to that one!

      2. hplasm
        Meh

        Re: To add to that...

        Which is probably a very good thing.

      3. John Smith 19 Gold badge
        Unhappy

        Re: Decisive action and commitment

        "To add to that....no UK government since Thatcher has really been able to make decisive actions and commit to them fully."

        I think it speaks volumes that following the Brighton bombing I'm quite sure that the usual top level spookocrats would have been telling her "This wouldn't be possible if everyone had to carry an identity card."

        And I'm sure if she had believed them we would be carrying them today.

        But Thatchers original background was science and I think she dug into the idea enough to see it was rubbish. With the IRA on the verge of shutting down I could not believe Blair's plans to introduce ID cards.

        Never trust someone whose only background outside politics is a lawyer. They are a bit too keen on figuring out how to make something happen before asking themselves why we are doing it in the 1st place.

      4. Dave Lawton

        Re: Decisive action and commitment

        I need to amend your statement:

        To add to that....no UK government ever has really been able to make decisive actions and commit to them fully.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Decisive action and commitment

      They can't just stop issuing passports. While an ID card might be alright for travel within Europe, I don't think the rest of the world is accepting them.

    3. jonathanb Silver badge

      Re: Decisive action and commitment

      ID cards would only ever be good for travelling around the EU. If you want to go further afield, you are always going to need a passport.

    4. Kubla Cant
      WTF?

      Re: Decisive action and commitment

      @Phil W: "phasing out passports as they expire"

      - so we'd only be able to travel to countries that don't require a passport?

    5. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Decisive action and commitment

      If you have ever used a passport you should know they contain many pages for reasons I suppose you do not know either.

  4. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    After having carried a Hong Kong ID card for a few years now....I'm all for it, provided the cost isn't absurd.

    Very convenient...but no doubt the UK could still make a complete hash of biometric border controls.

    1. Chris D Rogers

      The difference between Hong Kong and the UK is geography and distance, in HK, you have one centralised department that issues all ID cards in a single location and all inhabitants of HK live within one hours travel distance to the issuing centre.

      This is certainly not the case in geographically dispersed UK, indeed, given recent cuts that have reduced Passport Offices, its now virtually impossible for the UK to embark on a national ID programme, unless all data is collected via mobile offices travelling the length of the UK.

      Whilst Hong Kong's ID card scheme has been running for years - my first one issued on my arrival in 1996, the movement to a digital biometric system in the early 2000's was beset by quite a few problems, and indeed what actually to store on such cards given a lack of storage space - not so much the case today.

      Is it intrusive, in short, the answer is yes - you are detailed each time you leave and enter the country, and despite the fact that businesses are not supposed to request your ID details, i.e.,, you must produce your card, they seem to believe this is part and parcel of the ID system.

      That said, it certainly assists in entering HK, but not in departing, you still need to queue at a desk at you exit port.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        "but not in departing, you still need to queue at a desk at you exit port"...

        Not so, they have those automatic gate things even for exiting, unless you are with young children - you know that.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Convenience for you does not justify coercion for everyone who doesn't want it.

      I'd love to expand on that, but apparently even mild criticism of your point of view is regarded as an unacceptable personal attack by the moderators, so I'll just have to say that that's my point of view and leave it there.

    3. Scott Wheeler

      > After having carried a Hong Kong ID card for a few years now....I'm all for it, provided the cost isn't absurd. Very convenient.

      Even more convenient *not* to carry an ID card.

      1. Chad H.

        Given your ID card is probably sitting in your wallet, with your drivers license and bank cards, and would require some inconvenience to remove from that position, that argument seems a little silly.

  5. JimmyPage Silver badge
    Megaphone

    Drifting slightly OT ....

    Anyone catch this story about a man with no arms being denied entry to the UK as his biometrics (fingerprints) were not "of sufficient quality" ?

    BBC Article

    1. Matthew 3

      Re: Drifting slightly OT ....

      There was a similar story posted by Bill Bryson about a chap who couldn't get the US authorities to understand that he only had nine fingers. The 'system' wasn't equipped to cope with less than ten prints.

      1. Steve Foster
        Facepalm

        Re: Drifting slightly OT ....

        Obviously it wasn't Dave Allen, or we'd have heard about it from the man himself.

        1. Dazed and Confused
          Happy

          Re: Drifting slightly OT ....

          Dave Allen would really have thrown that cat amongst the pigeons, who'd have thought to make the field for "Number of fingers" a float.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Drifting slightly OT ....

        Having worked on some of those systems I can promise you they are perfectly capable of coping with anyone who has less fingers than the norm.

        More likely operator error but it makes a better story if it was the 'system'

  6. This post has been deleted by its author

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: ID cards aren't a bad idea.

      Sorry, but they are a bad idea. This is the UK, and I suspect the reason we haven't had them foisted on us thus far (near misses aside), is that we know in our hearts the British political tendency for mission creep and over reach would come back to haunt us very, very quickly and painfully.

  7. imanidiot Silver badge

    Lack of direction

    It seems the UK government doesnt even know what it wants to do with the new ID cards.

    In the netherlands its mandatory to always carry a form of ID (Drivers licence, ID card or Passport), to be shown to the plod when they have reasonable cause to stop you and suspect you of wrongdoings. The ID card is valid within europe and can be used somewhat like a passport within the EU. For people who will most probably never travel outside of the EU it's much cheaper to just get an ID card instead of a full fledged passport. Especially since it's much easier to carry than a passport.

    1. AMB-York Silver badge
      Thumb Down

      Re: Lack of direction

      Since the Netherlands is part of the Schengen agreement, you shouldn't even need a passport to leave or enter from another country in the Schengen area. Sounds like all the uses for ID you mention are invalid.

    2. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

      Re: Lack of direction

      Yes it did - it wanted a way of having control over people.

      It tied all the credit card, internet history, oyster card usage together for that "total law enforcement" policy

      It was a way of stopping and searching random (non-white male youth) and then nipping them down to the station for a quick DNA sample if they had forgotten theirs.

      It was a way for local councils to be able to pull up something suspicous about your internet history or mobile phone usage if you went to complain about the bins.

      It was a way of checking if you were a striking miner on their way to a picket ( well it does take a while to implement these things)

      It was of checking if this was a nice middle class boy at a demo whose daddy may cause a row, or a chav scum that can be given a good kicking.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Stop

        Re: Lack of direction

        Looking at your points ....

        It tied all the credit card, internet history, oyster card usage together for that "total law enforcement" policy

        Have you any evidence that this true? No, didn't think so.

        It was a way of stopping and searching random (non-white male youth) and then nipping them down to the station for a quick DNA sample if they had forgotten theirs.

        And yet the Police and Criminal Evidence Act 1984 is still in force which whilst it defines powers of arrest also as a by product provides for civil liberties. Incidentally introduced by Mrs Thatchers government.

        It was a way for local councils to be able to pull up something suspicous about your internet history or mobile phone usage if you went to complain about the bins.

        Evidence?

        It was a way of checking if you were a striking miner on their way to a picket ( well it does take a while to implement these things)

        Given as these days a 'striking miner on a picket line' would be defined as an 'ethnic minority' there more than enough legislation to provide legal safeguards. Surely.

        It was of checking if this was a nice middle class boy at a demo whose daddy may cause a row, or a chav scum that can be given a good kicking.

        ^^^ Fruit loop batshit paranoia

        1. John Smith 19 Gold badge
          Happy

          Re: Lack of direction

          "^^^ Fruit loop batshit paranoia "

          What happened Titus?

          Looking forward to years of well paying contracting and then it's gone in a moment?

          Because you come across like someone with a vested interest to me.

  8. LinkOfHyrule
    Paris Hilton

    Small and Pink

    I think expecting the British public to wave their small and pink things about in airports was a big and not so pink mistake!

  9. cosymart
    FAIL

    The Office...

    The office I used to work at decided to introduce biometric readers at all entry points to the building.

    Step 1 was to scan the index fingers of all the staff in the nice warm HR office.

    Step 2 was to install all readers.

    Step 3 was to Go live on the coldest day of the year.

    Step 4 chaos as queues formed at all the doors as the readers failed to recognise a single person due to the different biometrics between warm and very cold fingers.

    Step 5 System scrapped.

  10. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    The real problem with the ID card

    The ID card keeps getting touted as an option for one ID to rule them all. But the redundancy of having multiple possible sources of ID is part of the current system's strength. Someone throws your ID card in the river, you're screwed until you get it replaced. Someone throws your driving licence in the river, you use your passport until the replacement comes in the post.

  11. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Rinse and repeat

    I enjoy the stamping on the corpse of Blairs (nearly) gift to the nation, I'm depressingly sure we haven't heard the last of "we owns your ass" ID in some form or another, whether it be card, fingerprint or eyeball powered its sure to include the usual host of sugary sounding benefits (including depriving ne'er do wells of theirs) and a database invasive enough to put the last one to shame. Even the tories are getting a taste for this stuff now, and since there won't be enough of Cleggs little weasels left after the next election to be audible in a soundproof room, from a political perspective, we'll be fucked.

  12. Furbian
    Meh

    .. and if you're a minotriy...

    I saw part of a news report where some French Policemen were going through a Paris Metro, they were asking people to show their ID cards, everyone they chose just happened to African or Asian. I don't think I'd like that, but others may like or even want it, especially people who see me as an inherent, and 'visible' threat. In fact I find it quite scary. The racial profile of those being stopped and searched most often by the Police here not withstanding.

    UK employment law requires employers to check a persons immigration/work status, and almost by default I am asked to provide my passport, and many are surprised when a produce a P60 and my birth certificate instead, one even had to check if that was allowed.

    Anyway in this day and age, Amazon, google, Microsoft, eBay and Apple all know where I live, what I buy, how often I buy it, even try to guess what I want to buy next etc. facebook is an exception, as I've never spent a penny there, I put a remote double landlocked country in as my place of birth and residence, as a joke obviously. My bank evens knows where I eat and where I buy my food, with the supermarket even knowing exactly what I bought to eat in the first place. My mobile phone provides instant tracking of where I am, so what's left? We still need ID cards?

  13. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    What is this, the third fluff piece for this book?

  14. Throatwobbler Mangrove

    It's not a puff piece. It's a serialisation of the juiciest bits.

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