Ten Windows tablets Twelve months ago the idea of compiling a list of Windows tablets that you would actually want to buy would have been as impossible to do as it would have been farcical to suggest. But with the launch of Windows 8 and Windows RT all that has changed, and we are now faced with a bewildering array of fondleslabs all running …
@JDX
You need £600- £800 hardware to run W8 pro and for me the price does not justify any perceived benefits, WinRT is a non-starter.
Yes there are some good reasons for Windows desktop but a lot of those evaporate when you shrink Windows to 10 inches or so, only a masochist uses office on 10 inches.
You can buy a good 10inch droid tablet for £300 or less that will do 99% of what you would use a W8 tablet for and for the more technically minded can put on a Linux distro if you choose. Currently the pace of ARM development is breathtaking and as it stands MS is not best placed to exploit that potential as Linux ARM is currently light years ahead.
Although we spent the best part of 2 months trying to find a decent UK stockist. Simply unavailable. Having full win8 AND an Atom processor appears to be a niche within a niche. Full win8 needed due to full desktop-Outlook requirement.
Win8 on dedicated hardware is a completely different experience. Now it all makes sense, I tell ya! Haven't had time to check the battery(s) life yet, but will definately be making use of the ability to charge the phone from the keyboard.
Cost lots, I grant you, but a beautiful piece of kit nonetheless.
I think full Windows 8 + Atom is the way forward for Windows tablets. Good power consumption, a touch interface but still the full power of a Windows desktop when you need it. I think I would still wait for an iteration of both the hardware and software though.
On the other hand Windows RT is an unmitigated disaster. A gimped version of "Windows" with no redeeming qualities whatsoever. Perhaps a 7" version might work better, especially if a proper metro native version of MS Office appeared. But as it is RT devices are too expensive, too limited and largely useless.
I hope Win 8 does well, just because of the 2 things I sometimes want in a tablet. Keyboard docks and stylus input. Don't always need them, but sometimes they're brilliant. Even better that keyboards come with more battery in them.
Sadly Samsung seem to be charging a very large premium for their Galaxy Note tablets, over the normal ones. So the S Pen hasn't gone mainstream in Android, and no-one else seems to be doing stylusesusesuses (styli).
I agree - indeed that is why I am waiting until the "Haswell" chippery comes out. Precisely because I want a proper os and the combination of processing/graphics power and battery life that those devices should give (plus a stylus) (unless of course Intel are totally bullshitting).
Many are waiting for either Haswell, y-Series or (for lower powered devices) Baytrail
Does not help sales that some units upgrades to those CPUs are between "solid rumor" (Sony, Helix) and "almost official" (Thinkpad Tablet 2).
Even if Haswell just delivers more GPU power for the same endurance it will be an option for quite a few situations like replacing the add on (and power hungry) GPU card in some units. Same for Baytrail - just lifting the memory restriction and switching to HD4000 graphics will make this better than the current CTrail Atom
Dell sent me a Lat 10 in January to try out, I've been using an iPad for a year or so as a media consumption device,
I was pleasantly surprised by the windows 8 fondleslab, once the metro(whatever) screen is despatched with a small add on and the start button reinstalled I found it comfortingly familiar, and pretty speedy too. And being full win 8 pro there are a gazillion apps (previously called software :-) which run on it , (I believe this isn't the case for the RT version though)
everyone will have there own view, however, one area which the windows tablet absolutely slates (did ye see what I did there ? :-) the ipad is in the handwriting/notetaking business,
The stylus is a wacom one with a little hard nylon tip and is a joy to use in comparison with apple's little rubbery
tipped vague piece of uselessness (for this function at least)
windows handwriting recognition is excellent, my south pawed scrawls were , for the most part, recognised near perfectly, and got better with use. I use this functionality more than anything else now...
Another plus is that they plonk straight into the domain, this approach is probably sooo last week in our wonderful, 'cloud is the answer, now what's the question'... world... but as an infrastructure manager in a large enterprise ? I want life to be easy..
I'm no big MS fan, but I just want a tool for the job... :-)
i have a Acer Iconia W700 and be aware that they now come with a case & keyboard rather than the dock. oddly the case doesnt have a hole for the camera?!?!
win8 really does need a keyboard in certain circumstances. with this being 1080p, desktop is a little fiddly unless you upscale it. i just wish windows could better handle when you set desktop items to be larger as it knackers some apps. i do use a wireless mouse for playing games (older games that arent touch enabled) and any more precise work but most of the time i just use touch.
i would rather have this device than an ipad or android device. win8 is actually quite nice with touch. plus i can install steam on it and play some older games (currently playing C&C3) and even install photoshop on it. also works much better with NAS than android or iOS. considering its spec it is a nippy machine too.
win8 needs some tweaks:
metro picture viewer cannot scroll through photos (stupid decision)
windows doesnt handle upscaling of desktop too well with all programs (metro apps are fine)
and of course a small power brick isnt as user friendly as an apple charger or android one. but its much more powerful. i didnt want a useless little processor i wanted a laptop spec
i wish i had the cash for the razer edge tablets. now they do look decent.
@Eadon... awww. couldnt you afford a proper tablet? why the hate? my tablet can do anything an iOS or android tablet can do and much more. the number of apps in the app store isnt that great but i can just install any legacy app or write my own
"win8 really does need a keyboard in certain circumstances."
I like the way that all three inputs tend to lend themselves to different circumstances.
I find it easy to use the more natural (for me) input depending on what's going on - I don't have to think about it, I just end up using the more appropriate - whether it's click, type or prod.
agreed. for general stuff touch is adequate and brilliant at certain things (there is a good cheap/free game called Armed! that is quite fun if a little basic compared to C&C AOE etc)
i have tried to use a stylus but its not that great on my tablet. no digitiser? but i have a wacom tablet that i never use anyway :)
the keyboard is useful but annoyingly with it being BT you cannot use it until windows boots meaning no safe mode or bios stuff. you need a USB/wireless keyboard for that.
The Acer tablets (sadly) have no inductive (Wacom or Ntrig) digitizer so the can only do touch or capacitiye SAC (Sausage in condom) "pens"
If you use desktop programs most of the time an inductive digitizer is a must for Windows. So the Samsung Ativ 500/700 or Lenovo Helix as the closest equivalent. And from long experience - there is a big difference between a Wacom "external tablet" and a "screen is the tablet" system
Win 8 Pro tabs = win
Win 8 RT tabs = fail
Purely cos with Pro, you have full fat Windows, unlocked so you can install ALL of your normal Windows software you've been using for the past 20 years. Couple that with the versatility of having a stylus, detatchable keyboard and improved interface, which is touch-centric AND the ability of using full-sized USB attachments (keyboard/mouse/anything) you've got a winner both in corporate terms and personal.
Win 8 RT is an attempt at emulating the Apple closed environment, which is doomed to failure. Forcing users to obtain software (apps) via a moderated store rather than just getting a copy and running the installers yourself, which you've been doing since forever.
In short, Microsoft NEED to push Win8 pro on all devices they can in order to win anyone over. Win8 RT has not got any fans and never will.
do you mean surface pro as my tablet is home premium and its fine for what i need. the only thing pro has that i would like is ability to backup to NAS. not sure why that is a PRO feature annoyingly.
i do agree that RT seems a total waste of space.
i guess RT devices will be more stable as less likelihood of 3rd parts apps buggering up your system as RT is a walled garden isnt it? (correct me if im wrong).
"Twelve months ago the idea of compiling a list of Windows tablets that you would actually want to buy would have been as impossible to do as it would have been farcical to suggest. "
Nothing has changed, certainly for home users, and business users if they want to maintain productivity would be best advised to stay clear too.
No doubt a slew of Microsoft employees will be along to downvote me soon enough, but consumers and businesses have voted with their wallets already.
You do realise MS tried to do this back in 2004?
http://www.tabletpc2.com/Review-HPTC1100.htm
Back then compiling a list of any other tablets would have yielded nothing but MS powered devices. They were ahead of their time and didnt sell. Now MS's efforts are seen as behind the time, despite pioneering the foray into tablet form factors!!
I will agree that back in 2004, XP just didnt do enough to make tablet computing nice to use. But what gets me is people that go around praising Apple for bringing us the "first" PDA-like smartphones and tablets. THEY DIDNT. MICROSOFT DID. Their interface just sucked at the time.
i dont agree. 12 months ago little or no tablets were available that compared to an ipad. these days there are loads that pee all over ipads from a great height.
my tablet maybe cost £150 more than a cheap laptop and its much more flexible. i can game on it. mrs does her H&S assignments on it. i can use photoshop, steam, office etc.
the thing is, does business really need touch? i know all the execs want ipads but how many actually use them for anything other than email and web? they are also a pain to admin at times too.
Depends how you are defining a tablet...
In 2004, there were real-world, commercially available devices that were rectangular, had rounded edges, a touchscreen (albeit resistive touch), stylus and keyboard dock. They ran Windows XP, which was able to run a multitude of software (apps) and consume many different forms of media.
Hell, even the CPU ran at 1Ghz! Albeit a battery-sapping Wintel x86 CPU.
How is that different from an iPad of today? The only thing Apple and Co. are doing differently is the OS is much nicer to use and a lot faster/smoother. And the guts of the things run on much more efficient architecture (ARM/Qualcomm/nVidia).
Actually most of the XP based units had a Wacom even back then and no touch. Only low end units used resistive (i.e Asus MT91 and MT101). That was what partially made the units costly (Shock absorbing mounts for the HDD and a high capacity battery - for the time - where others)
Today the Atom based units can run rings around ARM and the ARM based OS are not running faster. Nor is the architecture more power efficient. To reach similar performance a brand new A15 ARM actually eats more power than the aging CTrail Atom.
If we go into core-i territory the ARM is more power efficient but the core-i can simulate ARM in real time if needed...
I see your point :)
What I meant was power efficiency. Back in 2004,. desktop CPU's were still more powerful than that of today's smart devices, just not power efficient. ARM's architecture was designed around low power consumption, whilst maintaining a decent level of performance. Not breaking records in either field, but something that made smartphones viable at the time!
Yes, back in 2004 power consumption was one of the two major problems for Tablet PC. Harddisks where the other - tablets are handled rougher than a notebook. Back then partially the Celeron and keeping with the PIII chips "solved" that, partially using higher performance (and much costlier) batteries. Both kept prices high. Only in the last 3 or so years did this get better.
ARM is great for phones and useable for media tablets. OTOH Equinox in the Note 10.1 does reach it's limits in tasks like handwriting recognition, the Ativ500 is more fluent there using the same (SNote) software for testing.
Samsung partially gets around that by forcing the user to switch modes (Letter entry, Number entry, spec char entry) on the HWR reducing some overhead for the engine but making use less fluid. They also deliver the units with a "fat" line strenght configured again making live easier for the HWR (Speed drops if you use the finest line)
What about the Lenovo Twist? (Or does that not qualify because it isn't a tablet by more of today's reckonings?
Have sold a couple of those where I work. The customer's like it. Had a good balance between being like a netbook/notebook and being a tablet. Despite the fact that the screen in itself doesn't stand alone and sits atop a keyboard that it can swivel around and latch down onto....it was a nice piece of gear to use!
To echo others who've purchased an Asus, I'm really quite impressed with the one I bought.
The user experience is good with full Windows 8 (It's not Pro though) on a tablet with a keyboard dock/extra battery.
The main benefits compared to my previous Asus Android tablet are that the ability to run Office and printer support.
Touch/keyboard/mousepad + stylus combo works really well. Whatever you want to do, you have the configuration that suits the job.
I don't understand the Win8 knockers. You have the "Metro" side of things for tablet mode and then bring up the desktop and dock it into the keyboard for a more traditional device. What's not to understand/like?
Qudos to Asus for championing this format of device. Real world usable innovation.
That just possibly killed Wacoms entry level digital display and pen, which last time I checked started at £800. Still not going to break the market for their high end screens, but for a whole "pc" that I can use a Wacom on (and HD screen at that), £700 seems reasonable. :)
For the tablet to work successfully, it needs a couple of applications:
1) Solitaire.
2) (well, there really isn't any other application!).
The biggest problem is that another pair of vendors (Apple's iOS, Google's Android) have significant market share. Windows on a fondleslab is a late arrival, and wants to make a big splash (look at the adverts Microsoft is running!). To penetrate the market, they need to be lower cost. With lower cost, comes lower margins, which discourages vendors. The problem is that to make use of W8 in a way people are accustomed to, requires a fancy keyboard, which also adds cost. If you are going to spend that much and use the applications on the platform, a small laptop is probably a better choice. This leads to the conclusion "why bother".
In the end, a fondleslab is a different platform with different applications to be used (not Word/Excel/Outlook). Trying to make it work like a desktop appears to be an exercise in futility.
Sure you can move furniture in the family car, but a truck works better on a day to day basis.
Having used all three, iOS the least, Android on tablets since A3 including the TPT1 and N80x0 penables as well as Windows since XP Tablet edition - there is a HUGE difference between a penable and a fingerprint gathering device like the iThingy.
With a inductive stylus you can actually use Word etc. quite well for a large number of tasks, often better than mouse/keyboard combo. The current gen hybrids and/or "cheap" docks make dual use even more easy. For typing lengthy stuff - dock the tablet pc and type. For checking/correcting/annotation - use the pen.
Using a tablet + pen during a presentation (WIDI connection to the beamer) and making annotations based on audience reaction is extremly useful. During talks with customer - just hand it over have him draw his ideas (OneNote or Journal, we even used ArtRage once) and immediatly after the meeting send the notes around in a editable, commentable format (Well for 92+ percent of PCs, Macs and that 1.4 percent system can't)
Hybrids / Tablets with a good bookcase and BT keyboard / convertibles offer the "best of both worlds". As tablets they are light, portable "conference room" tools and in "notebook mode" they can do everything a similar powered notebook can do.
IF and that is the important point IF they have a proper digititzer. Actually quite a few long term users would prefer a tablet pc WITHOUT touch - non-gloss screens and less difference between "point of contact" and "point of detection" for the digitizer
Microsoft certainly had the power the price the RT Surface more aggressively and I have great difficulty in believing that it couldn't also have arranged a more aggressive price point with the various OEMs for entry level RT tablets in much the same way that Google has with it's Nexus range.
I doubt the Nexus 4, 7 or 10 would retail for what they do had it been left to LG, Asus and Samsung.
I've actually bought with my own money two Windows 8 tablets. An Asus me400c running Win 8 standard which costs £399, standard Atom tablet with an excellent battery life in excess of 10 hours and 64Gb of storage plus micro SD slot which I use as my couch surfing etc device.
The other is the Acer Iconia W700 i5 128gb running Win 8 pro. Which after my good experience with the Atom tablet I took the plunge and replaced my laptop with it. I did buy a Microsoft Wedge key board and mouse to go with them.
Obviously I'm stupid but I am actually very pleased with these devices.
PS the replaced laptop is a 2011 MacBook Air
Been looking for some guidance with these tablets, I've been using the phone OS for a couple of years now and am actually quite impressed, so willing to give the tablet a try on that merit, it's also nice to be the black sheep once in a while, hearing how much people hate these things without ever actually booting one up and trying it for daily tasks. Reminds me of old debates lost in time! ;)
Why do your include that crap into the comparison? I'm not even sure that Samsung is qualified to be reviewed here at all. The only real contenders in MS market are MS and Sony (and Apple via BootCamp). Going further, Sony Win8 notebooks are crap (only once did they a good job -- with X505VP), but MS Surface is apparently OK (http://www.penny-arcade.com/2013/02/25/the-ms-surface-pro).
Not sure what these are pitched at.
If as netbooks then the Reg said that netbooks are dying out:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/04/12/netbooks_to_become_extinct_by_2015/
If they're supposed to be laptops then the ten inch screen and atom processor mean they can't be serious laptops. How well would they be able to Netbeans for example or to compile stuff? So even if you can plug them into a decent screen etc when you get to your desk they are going to be seriously underpowered.
And as to being tablets - the average cost of about £600 is too high when you can get a (I've got one and it's brilliant) Nexus 10 for £319.00.
I suppose the advantage is that they can tie in to the MS ecosystem - instead of downvoting could others explain if these tablets can use Active Directory for logins and pick Group policy type stuff. And is it more efficient than using some sort of terminal client on iPads or Android?
i was going to get a nexus 10 but after 3 weeks waiting for the larger HDD one i starting looking elsewhere.
my issues with android is that its a clat to use NAS in the way i like. i also tried a samsung android tablet and it couldnt even handle my HD video without stuttering.
of course any windows AD etc will work as long as you get windows Pro. i use NAS all the time at home and i just find it much nicer to use than ios or android. plus i much prefer to drag and drop music from NAS and IMO this is far superior to android or ios in this respect.
in fairness each touch enabled OS has its annoyances and kwerks. its just picking the one that will allow you to work how you want.
remember, a windows 8 (not RT) tablet isnt just a method to consume. you can have any normal windows software on it. i can even run mine as a webserver if i like. the mrs uses ours for her coursework too.
for my parents i would say android or ios as its more basic and user friendly. for anyone wanting the most from a tablet i would say go win8. i find ios annoyingly locked down and i hate itunes with a passion. its just garbage. i know there are alternatives but i shouldnt have to fudge around to do the basics.
For what it's worth a friend bought one last week on my recommendation (he got it for £529 from ebuyer) and he's as happy as a dog with two tails with it. He wanted something to replace his very old 13-inch Dell laptop but that would also work as a tablet for casual on-the-sofa use. Reckons the W700 does both jobs perfectly.
I hate it when people slag off stuff they have never owned or probably even tried.
**All tablets have compromises**
I bought a Windows RT Tablet (Asus vivotab RT) a few weeks ago for £286 on eBay (they're typically going for between £230 and £350). It has 2 USB ports, BTW - there's an adapter in the box for the second port that you can use on either the tablet or dock. The combination of a really light tablet and a detachable keyboard with the extra battery is just awesome. I can work on it with the keyboard and trackpad (e.g. at work in meetings), then detach the screen and use it on the sofa or loo like a tablet.
I have an iPad 1 (for the kids), iPad Mini (wife), Windows 8 tablet (main desktop PC) and I have tried everything else - 2x Android tabs, WebOS and even Blackberry for a bit. The Windows RT tab is *easily* the best so far for my needs. NO, it's not my main PC, but then I want a sofa surfer that can also do other stuff when needed. It's the tablet I go to first, carry around with me and use the most.
I could write essays on the problems with them all, but basically what I like about RT (and 8) most is the UI. I love the swipey gestures for navigation - it feels very natural and fluid. The UI is always responsive and smooth (unlike Android, even with Jelly Bean). I think Microsoft have done a fine job.
Windows RT is awesome for its market, (i.e. not a desktop/laptop replacement) and it is easily able to compete with the iPad while soundly beating every Android device I have tried.
The main downside for me at the moment is a lower number of apps/games compared to IOS and Android. But app count is not what it seems!
I can't really complain about IOS in this department because it's the clear leader in both quality and quantity of apps (although I can complain about the User Interface - so where's the innovation in the last 6 years?).
The apps that Windows 8/RT do have beat your average Android experience hands-down:
Android apps are often (usually? always?) not tablet optimised, so you get a scaled-up phone experience (try the eBay app on the iPad, Windows 8/RT and then any Android tab).
Android apps sometimes don't work at all because the developer didn't know about, care, or was able to support all processors, screen sizes, memory configurations, etc. that the grossly fragmented ecosystem has to contend with. I have had 2 of the very best selling Android phones and 2 tablets with every version of the Android OS since Froyo and I have *never* gotten Sky Go to work.. Ever. Worked first time on the iPad, though.
You're often unable to actually buy most Android apps.. Ad supported may cheer-up the free-tards thinking they're getting something for nothing, but I don't want to lose 20% of my screen to an ad banner flashing away continuously. I'd like to support the app developers a bit (the media says that Android developers don't earn much) but how can they compete when their app costs a quid next to someone else who "sells" it for nothing and people don't seem to care about the banner ads?..
Ugh. I'll stop there. I'm starting that essay that on-one wants to read. Either go along with your life believing the haters, or go out and actively try stuff for yourself.
You might be surprised.
I'm quite surprised by this tablet exclusion as from what I've read about it so far it seems to be the most practical and affordable of this current batch. In addition to a lightweight and well-built body it crucially requires only a micro-USB cable to charge from - something appreciated by those who like me have to travel a lot.
Also can everyone just ignore the resident twit with his sub-Slashdot scrawlings. As someone who's looking for a suitable tablet and searching for user feedback all I can see are replies to this plonker's ravings.
The major problem with all these Windows-based tablets is price. Why on earth would I buy one of these when I can buy a fully functional laptop with better specs and touchscreen for £400?? I currently use an Asus Transformer TF300 but only because it was about the same price or cheaper than a laptop. Until the prices drop on these things they are not going to capture the market.
Depends on "what do I need". If you have needs for a penable/convertible then the extra money is worth spending. If not - buy a notebook.
I.e if not for the strong rumors of a Hawell based T90x late this/early next year I would have bought a T902. It is more costly than even the units it replaces but (Tower and Tablet) but would allow me to fill all my use cases with one device.
For others (i.e my parents) an Atom+Dock would replace Notebook/Tower and tablet, I managed to keep them from buying an Android "it's cheap" tablet until Christmas by showing them that it is not "personal"(1). At that time the PIV tower needs a replacement anyway and they will get BayTrail convertible with dock (Or two, moms notebook isn't the freshest either)
(1) Currently dad uses the tower with the bigger screen and mom a 14'' notebook
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