BT boss barks at TalkTalk for being 'copper Luddites'

Re: If Talk Talk say they are so good...

After bitching at them for _six years_ they finally got BTOR to fix a broken drop cable and my speeds went up to 16Mb/s, but BTOR still haven't fixed the waterlogged trunk cables (lead-sheathed paper insulated(*), despite claims to Ofcom that there is none left in service in the UK.), so it keeps dropping out.

I'm leaving TT for other reasons - mainly that their CRM system seems to be designed by an infinite number of monkeys banging on an infinite number of typewriters, then they hired some of the monkeys to simian the helldesk - whenever anything goes wrong it takes days of banging heads against scriptmonkeys to get anything done and I have better/more enjoyable ways to waste my time

Not that I expect anything to be better technically with another ISP, but at least they have local staff/helldesk and they've made an undertaking to keep banging on BTOR until the lines are actually fixed.

(*) The BTOR techs freely admit the street cables are rotten, but state they're not allowed to try and fix 'em unless there's an actual break.

@MrXavia

Setup a shell company selling RF broadband services, get everyone in the village to sign an expression of interest, send out press releases announcing the launch of a new broadband service in the area in about 12 months time.

Alternatively, secure EU funding for a small outfit to install rural broadband in your area, via your local council.

Stand back and watch BT fall over themselves to signup everyone and install broadband in the area before your announced rollout date.

After all, if they're going to use those tactics to prevent competition in rural areas, why not play 'em at their own game?

Re: Why is line rental so much?

Wholesale line rental is £94.75 per year (or £7.90 per month) - that's just the cost of the line. However, that doesn't include VAT, which would be the equivalent of £9.50 per month. The BT Retail price of £15 is equivalent to £12.50 per month net of VAT, so a theoretical £4.30 per month profit before operational costs (and the initial Openreach connection costs). However, if you care to pay a year in advance, then the line rental cost is £10.75 per month - or £8.95 net of VAT allowing for a profit of just over £1 per month before any other retail costs.

Of course the line doesn't have to be retailed by BT - indeed full LLU operators make use of the wholesale costs. However, the fact that no other retail operator cares to rent lines and allow other ISPs to provide the broadband or call services is simply because it isn't economic for them, although the costs would be identical. The margins in the fixed line business are very thin.

Re: Why is line rental so much?

> It's about time someone offered fast broadband without having to pay BT £15pcm, which for me would be unused for making phone calls.

Find an ISP that offers Metallic Path Facility (MPF) circuits - not many do, but you can have ADSL without the POTS. I don't know how many offer such circuits, but I happen to know Gradwell do them (we have dealings with them at work) though they aren't exactly targeting consumers with their pricing (they're a business oriented ISP).

This sums up how an awful lot of BT employees view this. TalkTalk have a history of biting the hand that feeds them while other companies using our fibre are more than happy and we never hear a squeak out of them.

Yes, but some corpse gave BT a ground load of ducts and a virtual monopoly for nowt.

Re: Oh yes....

Ring Ofcom on 0300 123 3333 and complain about an inability to port your number. As the mobile number portability regulations were changed last year, Ofcom should be able to advise you on how to get it done. Be prepared for a few weeks of farting about writing letters though.

"amongst the cheapest ISPs as far as the general public are concerned"

Not in my area (London). A pitiful 10GB/m is £28.45 w/ line rental or £31.45 for unlimited*.

Their competitors are offering unlimited (w/ line rental) for £28 (O2; less if you have an O2 mobile), £23.98 (PlusNet), £21.45 (TalkTalk), and I pay £19 for EE (£24 if you aren't on Orange/T-Mobile).

* For the 18 months I was with BT, I ended up with a total of over £50 in hidden costs, that I had to argue with them about and eventually got removed.

Re: Oh Man.... I am lost for words

Me thinks you have a jaded memory, and on this day of all days. Our Lady Mrs T was the one responsible for BT not giving us FTTP. It was Mrs T who would not grant BT the license to pump video down the fibre, choosing instead to grant the rights to 2 chums from the US. That worked well for us, all under the guise of providing competition which was never real competition and as we all know ended up being a monopoly any way.

If for nothing else Thatcher should be remembered for causing the lack of proper network infrastructure in the UK. It wasnt BTs fault.

Re: Openreach has a monopoly and guess who they are a part of?

Openreach are the only outfit that does this work. Thus everyone uses them aside from Virgin fibre installations.

Not something I necessarily agree with but it's the response to a government ruling in 2006 basically forcing BT to open up network access and make it fair for all.

Not £25bn

@TheManCalledStan

The figure raised by the Treasury in the flotation of BT (over three tranches) was more like £14bn. That was £4bn from tranche 1 and £5bn each from tranches 2 & 3 (the last one of which was at £4.20 per share). Your figure of £25bn is the approximate amount raised by the 3G auction at the height of the telecom bubble.

Of course, £15bn is (inflation adjusted) far higher than BT's current £20bn market capitalisation, so it would appear that the government got good value. However, it's never that simple. Following the split of O2 from the main BT group (with the latter carrying the enormous debts built up largely by developing the then Cellnet, buying out Securicor's share and the purchase of 3G licenses plus buying out various foreign partners), the shareholders owned both companies. O2 was then taken over by Telefonica and thereby gained about £17.7bn. On that basis, BT shareholders did a bit better than these figures indicate. However, it is never that simple - BT launched a rights issue in 2001 which raised £5.9bn from shareholders. Overall, for those who bought into the original three tranches in proportion, inflation adjusted, it might - just - break even.

Of course the shareholders were somewhat cheated - they were sold shares under one regulatory regime and competition model but the rules were changed enormously in the late 1990s to an increasingly tougher one.

nb. one other thing the government is probably grateful for - they don't have to cover the enormous pension deficit (the liabilities for which were largely incurred pre-privatisation), unlike the position with Royal Mail. That's assuming they aren't silly enough to allow the company to go broke through an over-zealous regulator of course, in which case a privatisation-time state guarantee will be called upon).