back to article Provider of FIFA goal line tech chosen, tracks ball in space and time

Football governing body FIFA has selected goal-line technology from German firm GoalControl as its preferred option in trials ahead of the 2014 World Cup. The GoalControl-4D system features 14 high-speed cameras around a football pitch focused on both goal mouths to help match officials determine whether or not the ball has …

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  1. Anonymous Coward
    Devil

    Pfft

    It'll be programmed to disallow goals from anyone in an England shirt, just as the officials have been.

    1. Seanmon
      Trollface

      Re: Pfft

      Which is a problem because? (Jimmy hat icon please.)

      1. Code Monkey

        "Jimmy hat icon please." Re: Pfft

        Would that be in the Scottish sense or the Tribe Called Quest sense?

    2. seven of five
      Joke

      Re: Pfft

      Exaktly, England, for euch ze football is ofer! (And Holland as well).

    3. James Micallef Silver badge
      Devil

      Re: Pfft

      Might not be required - if England continue to be incapable of beating Montenegro et al, they won't even be in Brazil

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Pfft

        Didn't we beat Brazil in a friendly not too long ago? And what about the drubbing administered to San Marino?

        1. This post has been deleted by its author

  2. Charlie

    It's been a talking point in England since....

    1966, surely?

  3. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    "Amazingly, neither the referee nor the linesmen saw the ball cross the line"

    Not so amazingly! A linesman not watching. Hardly surprising, he'd be so bored stiff his mind would have turned into jelly.

  4. Don Jefe

    No Refs

    Why don't they just get rid of referees all together? Let the television audience decide things.

    1. Esskay
      Facepalm

      Re: No Refs

      Maybe they could also rename the World Cup "So You Think You Can Play Football?" And eliminate a player each week...

  5. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Still don't understand how a camera based system will help in a goal mouth scramble where goalie on or around the goaline dives on ball while other players are lunging for it ... will the cameras really spot if he grabbed the ball before it crossed the line or scooped it back afterwards. Clearly this will solve all the blatant cases where referees don't spot ball bouncing over line that is obvious on a TV replay but I'm sure there will still be contentious "goals" that are not sorted out by this. Note, Hawk-eye (a similar camera based system) works brilliantly in cricket and tennis because by nature of game most of the camera array will always have a clear sight of the ball - this just isn't the case in football.

    1. Cyclist

      That the system doesn't cover every single possibility isn't a reason to discard it completely. It'll resolve most contentious calls, which is a start.

      1. Professor Clifton Shallot

        "It'll resolve most contentious calls, which is a start."

        Right. 'Get rid of the howlers' is an approach that seems to work okay in cricket.

    2. Badvok

      If it at least resolves the obvious ones it has got to be better than the current system.

      Rugby Union has a similar problem, the video ref is good for verifying a close try that might have been just over the line or if a player was just in touch, but if the a tackled player manages to roll over and touch the ball down while covered by a dozen very large men it is no help at all.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        If it at least resolves the obvious ones it has got to be better than the current system.

        But those ought to be solved by the existing UEFA system of 2 additional assistant referees behind the goal + they can also help in other decisions (and from evidence on CL and EL matches on rare occasions actually do so!). 2 extra referees also has the advantange of being cheaper to install!

        1. James Micallef Silver badge
          Facepalm

          " the existing UEFA system of 2 additional assistant referees behind the goal + they can also help in other decisions (and from evidence on CL and EL matches on rare occasions actually do so!). "

          I have never yet seen one of these assistant referees take a proper decision. On the other hand, I have seen plenty of them not signalling something that should hav been obvious to them (eg Arsenal-Bayern, the corner that Arsenal scored from should never have been given), or else take matters in their own hands to incorrectly overrule a referee's correct decision (Catania-Juventus, Catania goal wrongly disallowed). In most cases they just stand there and confirm the refs' decision.

    3. James Micallef Silver badge
      Thumb Up

      It's the same in rugby (worse, even). Also in football it's quite rare that there is a huge bunch of players *behind* the goal-line, so with 14 cameras there should be a couple with a clear enough view in any case. I'm sure FIFA and the designers will have considered this.

    4. Test Man
      Stop

      The camera-based system is only one tech that is legal for use in football, according to IFAB. There's a magnetic-based tech that has magnets or sensors in the football and goals, which avoids the problem of line-of-sight completely. Obviously, this sort of tech is more expensive.

      1. Charles 9

        I recall that one isn't heavily in use because it involves modifying the ball (which requires delicate work to keep it to exact regulation specs) plus has difficulty showing when a driven (and thus slightly deformed) ball completely crosses: the shape changes in-flight.

    5. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      You would expect there is at least one camera in the goal to avoid the goalmouth scramble issue, works well enough for ice hockey it seems

      1. Charles 9

        I think the tech uses several, placed at different angles in case one or more of the cameras is covered by a body. A football goal is bigger than a hockey one, so more cameras are recommended for proper coverage.

  6. volsano

    Breaking the sound barrier

    It'd help too if the front of the goal was a thin sheet of some sort of plywood. A goal would be scored by the ball hitting and/or breaking the plywood.

    Computer acoustic analysis from an array of microphones and vibration detectors would distinguish the characteristic sound signature of a ball thwacking into the plywood from other sounds such as a player head diving into it or giving it the elbow.

    This may slow down a high-scoring game if damaged sheets have to be replaced several times. But, like the nuke-from-orbit tactic proposed in Aliens, it is the only way to be sure.

    Soon, every goal will count, everytime.

    1. lrabbit
      Thumb Up

      Re: Breaking the sound barrier

      @volsano

      That made me laugh! Excellent suggestion!

  7. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    At least they haven't chosen the ludicrous Hawkeye...

    I find it bizarre how tennis commentators build up an air of tension as the Hawkeye replay is shown. There's no tension: of course the *simulation* is going to show what the system reported. How could it do anything else?

    Worse still, depending on which line is involved and the angle of the ball, some simulations show the ball as being wider than the line while others show the ball as being smaller than the line. Erm how does that work exactly, given that the ball and lines are not changing?

    1. Mad yakker

      Re: At least they haven't chosen the ludicrous Hawkeye...

      Depending on the speed and the angle that the tennis ball hits the ground, it sometimes deforms slightly, or skids across the surface, hence the different shaped 'balls' on the Hawkeye image.

      1. Alfred
        Go

        Re: At least they haven't chosen the ludicrous Hawkeye...

        "Depending on the speed and the angle that the tennis ball hits the ground, it sometimes deforms slightly, or skids across the surface, hence the different shaped 'balls' on the Hawkeye image."

        Bingo. Tennis balls don't bounce at some hypothetical point contact. They squidge, and slide, and then as they unsquidge they literally launch themselves back upwards. The kind of call more likely to be contested (high speed) is the kind most likely to have heavily squidged and slid.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: At least they haven't chosen the ludicrous Hawkeye...

        I agree the ball deforms when it hits the ground, but no amount of deformation will make a tennis ball bulge wider that it already is (try it by squashing one by hand on a desk). So there is no way it can suddenly become wider than the line on one shot and then narrower on a later shot.

        And if the simulation purports to show the 'shadow' of the ball on the line, assuming lit by an imaginary light source directly above, then it is a simple fact to show that a sphere always casts a round shadow. So again, this can't be it.

        If it's supposed to be the 'contact patch' i.e. the area of court that the deforming ball made contact with then the neat ellipses are suspiciously neat. A ball that slides a lot would leave a 'tube' shape, but I've never seen one on the telly.

        Searching the net, I can't find any description of what the Hawkeye simulation actually purports to show! If someone is aware of such an explanation, I'd be grateful for a pointer to it.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: At least they haven't chosen the ludicrous Hawkeye...

      I feel like the post about Hawk-Eye was made as an AC because they feared that they would be wrong.

      AC myself because I am no expert on this technology and don't want to be shot down.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: At least they haven't chosen the ludicrous Hawkeye...

        > I feel like the post about Hawk-Eye was made as an AC because they feared that they would be wrong.

        Actually, as the AC that posted the original I (almost) always post AC so that my sense or nonsense is judged on its own merits rather than on reputation from previous posts.

    3. Stratman
      Coat

      Re: At least they haven't chosen the ludicrous Hawkeye...

      The Scottish FA have chosen it.

      It'll be known as Hawkeye the noo

      1. Ralph B
        Coat

        Re: At least they haven't chosen the ludicrous Hawkeye...

        But the Irish have gone with GaelControl-4D

    4. Alfred
      Stop

      Re: At least they haven't chosen the ludicrous Hawkeye...

      Back when I was working for them, that's not how it worked. The chain of events was thus:

      1) On court officials (i.e. umpire plus team) give their verdict.

      2) Player contests that verdict.

      3) Hawkeye is quizzed.

      Only at step 3 does the Hawkeye decision become known to anyone other than the guys running it, and frankly we didn't even usually check it ourselves unless a player contested the umpire's decision.

    5. Charles 9

      Re: At least they haven't chosen the ludicrous Hawkeye...

      The ball DOES change. Tennis balls are relatively speaking not that stiff. They're rubbery for the most part and--unlike most balls in sports the size of your fist or smaller--hollow,, so they can deform as they bounce, especially when they hit at speed (think your typical first service). Part of Hawk-Eye's trick is that it recognizes this deformation and accounts for it in the line call.

  8. LPF
    Facepalm

    A company comes out of nowhere to win a FIFA competion beating an english company that has been doing the smae thing for the last 30 years! hmmmmmmmmm yep definately not dodgy!

    1. Loyal Commenter Silver badge
      FAIL

      Have you got anything to base that on other than random xenophobia? I would have thought the selection criteria would have been based on how well the technology does its job, not on how long the company has been operating, or its nationality.

  9. Lexxy
    Go

    Goal line tech?

    Balls to this.

  10. Loyal Commenter Silver badge
    Holmes

    "FIFA's top suits, most notably Sepp Blatter, have consistently dragged their heels about introducing either GLT or video replays despite numerous poor decisions in high profile matches over the years that were easily apparent to TV audiences. The solution has always been to draft in more officials on the pitch instead of adopting a tech-based solution."

    The cynic in me wonders if one more official on the pitch is merely one more palm to grease, whereas machines can't be bribed.

    Machines, however, can be hacked. I wonder how strong the encryption on the radio signal is, and how easy it would be to spoof, or jam, and what the auditing is like.

  11. hammarbtyp
    Childcatcher

    If FIfa think they have problems

    Its nothing compared to the issues we had when the goals were a couple of jumpers.

    Not only did we have to judge the goal line, but also whether the ball went through the posts and how high it was had to be judged.

    Where's the technical solution for that eh?!

    1. This post has been deleted by its author

      1. This post has been deleted by its author

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: If FIfa think they have problems

          I once impressed my footballing godsons by saying I had played for a School XI in my youth. However it was a single game in a scratch third XI team. It was formed from VIth Form "volunteers" when the visitors had given short notice that they fielded an extra team. Not only were we not skilled players - but the other side was a adult college team.

          I like to think my clogging as a fullback kept the score down to only 0-13. Old-style " Stanley Matthews" heavy boots had some tackling advantages over the 1966 fashionable continental ones.

    2. Martin Budden Silver badge
      Childcatcher

      Re: If FIfa think they have problems

      "Its nothing compared to the issues we had when the goals were a couple of jumpers. Not only did we have to judge the goal line, but also whether the ball went through the posts and how high it was had to be judged. Where's the technical solution for that eh?!"

      It was always my experience that such disputes were quickly resolved by the owner of the ball pointing out that if we didn't agree with his* interpretation he'd take his ball home.

      *for some reason girls always played other games back in those days.

  12. chris 17 Silver badge
    Thumb Down

    why not just have a bunch of refs watching the replay on TV, back at FIFA HQ? would take a little longer to make a decision granted, but a hell of a lot easier and cheaper?

  13. Mr Spock

    Why not kick Blatter out?

    Retire him to a nursing home, where the staff won't be so sympathetic every time he pretends to be Bernie Ecclestone.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Coat

      Re: Why not kick Blatter out?

      They're worried about his brother Bug coming over from Traal and administering a whupping ..

  14. The Mole

    Encrypted radio signal

    My knowledge of the rules of football isn't the best, but isn't it basically the case (ignoring the offside rule and other things that system can't monitor) that if the ball crosses the line it is a goal? If the article is accurate and an encrypted signal is only and automatically sent when the ball crosses the line (1s doesn't give long enough for a human to be involved) doesn't that mean the encryption is pointless? The mere presence of the message tells you what it means.

    Though I guess the encryption may actually be authentication to prove that the message is genuine.

    1. Charles 9

      Re: Encrypted radio signal

      It's meant for authentication purposes, to ensure someone on the field doesn't try to fake a goal by secretly transmitting a false signal.

  15. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Fog, snow, hail

    As the system is camera based - how resilient is it to conditions of poor visibility?

    1. cosymart
      Happy

      Re: Fog, snow, hail

      Infra Red and hot balls?

    2. Charles 9

      Re: Fog, snow, hail

      That's probably why the plethora of cameras: the more angles you have, the more likely the system can get a clear enough image to make a decision.

  16. bep

    The important part

    has at least been got right, in that you don't have a video replay on the big screen, just a signal to the ref. In the other sports, the controversies have just become about smaller distances, they haven't gone away entirely.

  17. Chris007
    Black Helicopters

    Conspiracy I say :)

    FIFA, headed by a german who hates the english - what could possibly have gone worse for english company hawk-eye against the chosen german company...

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