back to article Aaron Swartz prosecutor accused of 'professional misconduct'

The legal team acting for now-deceased internet activist Aaron Swartz has filed an official complaint with the Department of Justice alleging two counts of professional misconduct by Assistant US Attorney Stephen Heymann in his handling of the case. Heymann knowingly suppressed evidence that could have been used to dismiss the …

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  1. Matt Bryant Silver badge
    WTF?

    Wow!

    Even after the guy is dead his legal vultures are still looking to make a dime off someone! Anyway, didn't Swarz admit his guilt already?

    1. DavCrav

      Re: Wow!

      "Even after the guy is dead his legal vultures are still looking to make a dime off someone! Anyway, didn't Swarz admit his guilt already?"

      Go fuck yourself.

      Maybe read some facts before engaging brain. Or is obvious troll obvious? Not so sure.

      1. oldredlion
        Holmes

        Re: Wow!

        I think obvious troll is obvious.

      2. Turtle

        @DavCrav: Re: Wow!

        "Maybe read some facts before engaging brain. Or is obvious troll obvious? Not so sure."

        Now, if I understand you correctly, you are taking these accusations from Swartz's legal team as being true. Somehow that strikes me as being maybe just a wee bit naive. Defense lawyers are by definition highly impartial advocates and ultimately have no responsibility to prove what they say. (Prosecutors, if you don't know, have to prove their charges to a variety of judges, a grand jury, a trial jury, and it all has to survive the subsequent scrutiny of appellate courts.) If there is any class of people less deserving of belief than defense lawyers, then you'll have to tell me who it is.

        These accusations from Swartz's lawyers need to be treated with a tremendous amount of skepticism. Which you evidently do not want to do.

        1. DavCrav

          Re: @DavCrav: Wow!

          @Turtle: Well, all the defence team are saying is that it looks considerably like a witch hunt. Since that's been pretty obvious for quite a while, even before Swartz's suicide, they aren't saying anything new, just repeating well-established facts (facts in the sense of things that are true, like the fact that the policeman that killed Ian Tomlinson is guilty as sin, not what occurs in court).

          Edit: the fact that 97% of US cases are plea bargained -- read defendants/victims browbeaten into submission by prosecutors -- should be a pretty good statistic. See, for example,

          http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10000872396390443589304577637610097206808.html

          This particular problem in the US "justice" system is well known and shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone.

        2. Robert Masters
          Boffin

          Re: @DavCrav: Wow!

          ...Except that under the current circumstances, the group that acted as a defence team for AS are now prosecuting the individual who prosecuted (and, according to many, persecuted) AS. So now the defence are the prosecution, and the prosecution is the defence.

          1. DavCrav

            Re: @DavCrav: Wow!

            "...Except that under the current circumstances, the group that acted as a defence team for AS are now prosecuting the individual who prosecuted (and, according to many, persecuted) AS. So now the defence are the prosecution, and the prosecution is the defence."

            That reminded me of the Daily Mash headline "Outrage over reaction to Clarkson reaction reactions".

    2. Atrophic Cerebrum
      Black Helicopters

      Re: Wow!

      Guilty of what? Maybe Aron didn't want to be the next suckerberg/brin figurehead for the cowardly US "intel" establishment so they harrased the life out of the poor guy. A totally shameful and avoidable situation and another damning reason these spooks are not fit for purpose. The terrorists are alive and (un)well in cheltenham and langley.

    3. Tom Maddox Silver badge
      Facepalm

      Re: Wow!

      Ah, Matt, dripping as ever with the milk of human kindness, I see.

    4. Shannon Jacobs
      Thumb Down

      Don't feed the troll

      Hey troll, when will you do something with your life? ANYTHING of ANY value.

    5. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Wow!

      Bryant, were you born a twat or did you become one through regular practice?

  2. Lars Silver badge
    Flame

    So

    You are offered justice for accepting being a felon, Something very fishy in the US system of felony.

  3. Anonymous Coward
    FAIL

    I could never understand why this isn't treated as blackmail.

    "If you admit you did it, we will be lenient. Otherwise, we will put you in the slammer for a bazillion years."

    1. Malcolm Weir Silver badge

      To be fair, IF the accuses is, uh, guilty-ish, a plea bargain might be the most satisfactory solution.

      Remember, in a fair number of cases (including, I believe, this one) the actual facts are not really in question. The issues that would effect the outcome of any trial are things like can the evidence be used against the defendant? or did the defendant's actions meet all the requirements of the crime?, etc.

      1. Grogan Silver badge

        Well yes, plea bargains are often the appropriate route to take and are beneficial to both sides.

        The problem is, they exist so the courts can get things cleared through, not necessarily to serve or even expediate justice.

        If you have to accept lesser punishment and a record for something you didn't do, or cop to a series of charges that aren't all correct, because of some jackass that wants to use the weight of the system as a weapon against you, then that is abusive.

        This is common in America. Take the plea bargain, or the prosecution is going to do everything in their power to get you convicted and sentenced harshly.

  4. Grave

    this is what a "law" system without personal responsibility looks like

    1. Johan Bastiaansen
      Angel

      Let's hope

      The pig doesn't get away with it and is hung by his intestines.

  5. Malcolm Weir Silver badge
    Devil

    @Turtle: There are some things we _have_ to take as true, because they were submitted under penalty of perjury to the court.

    For example, we have to take as true the fact that the Government (i.e. Heymann) argued that the evidence (from the search of the laptop, etc.) should not be excluded because the Government hadn't had possession of the equipment, therefore the clock should not have been running.

    But IF the email described in the complaint exists and contains the information narrated in the complaint, the Government is in a bit of trouble: they said they didn't have the equipment, but they knew they did.

    So does that email exist, and does it say what they claim it says? Well, it beggers belief that a lawyer would file that complaint without having a copy of the email in question, so it seems far more likely than not that, yes, the email exists and the email says what they claimed it said, and therefore the gov. is in trouble.

    What remains to be seen is whether the trouble that the government is in was a result of (a) malice (b) incompetence or (c) an honest mistake.

    1. Vic

      > was a result of (a) malice (b) incompetence or (c) an honest mistake.

      Or (d) All of the above. Except (c).

      Vic.

      1. Fatman

        Or...

        @Vic,

        e) a desire to show the little people that you are the high and mighty, and you can fuck over anyone you want, and get away with it.

  6. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Secret Service

    What is this "Secret Service"? And what service do they provide? If it's secret, then why do I know about it? Is my life in danger? So many questions. Not enough time.

    1. Dave Bell

      Re: Secret Service

      It's one of these American things. It isn't really secret, it does several distinct jobs, and they are the Federal experts on investigating computer crime, rather than the FBI.

      It's one of the older parts of the US System, and I have no idea of why the got the Computer Crime job. Maybe the politicians were wary of giving the FBI too much power.

      1. Bumpy Cat

        Re: Secret Service

        US federal law enforcement is a big area with lots of agencies. The Secret Service has two big jobs - protecting the president, and anti-counterfeiting/anti-financial-crimes. They seem to take it on themselves to do major computer crime investigations, and usually look like clowns when doing so. They raided Steve Jackson Games in the early 90s because the game company was making a cyberpunk game ... the Secret Service really thought that the game book was some sort of crime manual.

      2. Michael Wojcik Silver badge

        Re: Secret Service

        [The Secret Service is] one of the older parts of the US System, and I have no idea of why the got the Computer Crime job.

        The Secret Service used to be the security and investigation branch of the Department of the Treasury. Consequently they got the remit for a number of aspects of finance-related crimes, and IT-related crime was initially viewed by the Federal government as in that category.

  7. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    " hung himself"

    Hanged himself. Hung himself implies cosmetic surgery

  8. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Yes Swartz admitted he was a criminal and illegally hacked

    What goes around generally comes around.

  9. Tomas K.

    What a crock of shitze

    This is typical and a futile attempt to try and discredit the DOJ for properly convicting a criminal. Swartz wasn't the sharpest tool in the shed, he was just a tool. He chose to take his own life because he wasn't man enough to do the time for his crime.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: What a crock of shitze

      In what way was he a criminal? If the victims weren't interested in pressing charges, and no-one was physically injured, why were the DoJ so keen to prosecute?

      This sounds like a bullshit prosecution, brought about because there's no "House Un-American Activities Committee" around to allow the neocons to "legally" harass people like Swartz.

      It's just a point scoring exercise so that Heymann will have something to put on his resume when he runs for higher office.

    2. Johan Bastiaansen
      Happy

      Re: What a crock of shitze

      That was the previous question. The current question is if that Aaron Swartz fuck can take it like he likes to dish it out. Let's see if HE is man enough to do the time for his crime.

      My money is on his big black cell mate.

      1. Matt Bryant Silver badge
        FAIL

        Re: Johan Re: What a crock of shitze

        ".... The current question is if that Aaron Swartz fuck can take it like he likes to dish it out....." Aaron Swarz is dead, he committed suicide before the trial started.

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: What a crock of shitze

      Tomas K. Could I have a look at your CV, please?

      What exactly do you say you have done for the advancement of society and technology? What risks did you take in the process? How far did you go in the name of what you believed in, despite any medical conditions or other impairments you might have had?

      Just so I can put your judgement in context, you see. Thank you.

      1. Matt Bryant Silver badge
        FAIL

        Re: AC Re: What a crock of shitze

        ".....What exactly do you say you have done for the advancement of society and technology?....." Yeah, cos Aaron healed the wounded, cured the sick, put an end to global hunger and then invented the Internet on his coffee break, right? In fact, what seems to make him a "hero" in the eyes of numpties like you is he claims to have defeated SOPA all on his lonesome, and got caught twice downloading massive amounts of documents in breach of the terms of his access to those works. Wow, how will humanity survive without him - not!

  10. Kevin Fields

    None of this will matter

    I think the DOJ acted wrongly, outrageously so. It won't matter if Swartz's lawyers file a complaint. The complaint board will most likely find that while mistakes were made, it wouldn't be anything to punish for, because that's what they almost ALWAYS determine. It doesn't matter how much anguish, suffering or harm that government lawyers cause in their actions, even in the worst case scenario they're almost never fired. Even when judges dismiss cases because of DOJ misconduct, the review board has a history of deciding that the judge was just wrong. It's a badly broken system.

    1. Johan Bastiaansen
      Happy

      Re: None of this will matter

      You guys have the right to bear arms right? To defend yourself against a tyrant, right? So you equip some nutjob with a high precision sniper rifle, he splatters Aaron Swartz' grey matter all over the street and ass whipe Matt will argue that it would be a waste of tax payer money to prosecute him.

      Sounds like a plan no?

      1. Johan Bastiaansen
        Meh

        Re: None of this will matter

        Replace "Aaron Swartz'" with "Stephen Heymanns" and the above message will make sence.

        1. Matt Bryant Silver badge
          FAIL

          Re: None of this will matter

          "Replace "Aaron Swartz'" with "Stephen Heymanns" and the above message will make sence." Nope, still doesn't make sense, it still just looks like the bleating of one of the I-can-pay-but-won't-pay freetard numpties.

      2. Matt Bryant Silver badge
        FAIL

        Re: Johan Re: None of this will matter

        ".....So you equip some nutjob with a high precision sniper rifle, he splatters Aaron Swartz' grey matter all over the street....." Aaron Swarz is already dead, so no need for a sniper. On a lighter note, I think your posts are compelling evidence for the limiting of Internet access to those with an IQ in at least double figures.

  11. Matt Bryant Silver badge
    Stop

    It's like a vineyard here!

    More whine than the Rhone valley!

    Aaron Swarz is dead by his own hand, having already admitted his guilt, and silly, political "revenge" actions like this just waste the courts' time. The email in question will be easily explained away - "well, your honour, I THOUGHT we had the laptop in our care when I sent that email, but I later realised it was still in police evidence" - and amounts to nothing more than desperate straw grabbing. Since the case never went to trial - Aaron decided on the ultimate necktie before it could - the laptop's contents were never even raised in court. Will it bring Aaron back? No. Will it change any laws or legal guidelines? No. Will it waste US taxpayers money? Yes. Will it make the authorities even more determined to track down others like Aaron? Certainly. The lawyers won't care, it's just another payday for them whether they win or lose, but the people funding this obviously have more money than sense.

    1. Johan Bastiaansen

      I'm on to you

      Hey Matt, you don't seem concerned about the tax payers money that was wasted on prosecuting Aaron Swartz. Why is that?

      1. Matt Bryant Silver badge
        Facepalm

        Re: I'm on to you

        "......you don't seem concerned about the tax payers money that was wasted on prosecuting Aaron Swartz. Why is that?" Swarz was charged with a crime, so the investigation and prosecution of that crime was proper and what taxpayers expect.

  12. This post has been deleted by its author

  13. Local G
    Go

    Suicide By Prosecutor

    Cheaper than suicide by cop and less of a p.r. nightmare.

    The courtroom savings are phenominal.

  14. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Why am I not surprised Eric Holder is no better than Ed Meese

    and Barack Obama is just a black Richard Nixon?

    1. Matt Bryant Silver badge
      Pirate

      Re: Why am I not surprised Eric Holder is no better than Ed Meese

      ".....a black Richard Nixon?" There has been a renewed interest in Nixon-bashing lately. I was beginning to wonder why, then I saw the re-re-re-release of stories about how Nixon "committed treason" and "sabotaged" the 1968 Vietnamese peace talks in Paris. Why is that old story suddenly worthy of a re-run? In the classic words of Poirot, who has a motive? Maybe it's because Nancy Pelosi did her bit of "treason" out in the open when she violated the Logan Act with her visit to Syria in 2007. A bit of Dem infighting going on, maybe, what with Obambi being intelligible for a third term as POTUS?

      1. Local G
        WTF?

        Re: Matt Bryant "what with Obambi being intelligible for a third term as POTUS?"

        Kids say the cutest things.

        My guess is that you meant "ineligible" and not "intelligible". But then you could have meant "Obambi is intelligible", and were signalling the Thatcher Conservatives following you that Obama is Okay.

        After all he's been playing hardball with Assange, Manning and assorted hackers for a long time and now he's going to send drones after American citizens without due process.

        That must warm the cockles of your heart

        (off topic)

        http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/15/nyregion/most-ny-gun-shows-to-take-steps-on-background-checks.html?_r=0

        At the gun show last week, I could have bought anything I wanted by printing my name on a piece of paper, then signing it, with my driver's licence number. Provided I had fat wad of $100 bills.

        I put my Walther in a lap top carrying case with the model, make, origin of manufacture on a piece of paper taped to the case. Along with the price $1100. I took your advice about keeping it and priced it high.

        One of the guys I went to the show with is going to Texas next week. If I want a Judge or Public Defender all I have to do is give him $800 in cash before he goes.

        1. Matt Bryant Silver badge
          Happy

          Re: Re: Matt Bryant "what with Obambi being intelligible for a third term as POTUS?"

          ".....My guess is that you meant "ineligible" and not "intelligible"....." Sorry, blame the wife's iPad's auto-correct. No children involved, unless you're implying Apple have developer shops in China full of kiddies?

          ".....After all he's been playing hardball with Assange, Manning and assorted hackers for a long time...." Ah, it always makes me laugh when Lefties finally realise those that create the biggest security infrastructures for spying on their own citizens, and are scared the most of "the people", are usually those on the Left.

          ".....That must warm the cockles of your heart....." Well, I'm not exactly crying over it, and the fact so many Lefties are does add a certain comic tone.

          ".....At the gun show last week, I could have bought anything I wanted....." So, how many people got shot at the show? What, none!?! Surely not, all those irresponsible gunowners in one spot, all unable to resist their prediliction for blazing away, AND NOT ONE SHOOTING!?!?!? Maybe the screwballs like Adam Lanza skipped the fair because they might have thought they stood a chance of their targets shooting back if they weren't the only person armed....

          ".....If I want a Judge or Public Defender....." Hmmm, both a bit too "Desert Eagle" for my liking. The shotgun capability is pretty poor, IMHO, and there are better .45 Colt revolvers. Have you had a reason to shoot a shotgun in the years you've had the PPKS in a box? I take it you don't hunt. Even the oddball .45 Colt would seem just appealing to "good 'ol boys" - if you must, get a Glock in .40 or a proper pump-action shotgun, both better options for home defence. Of course, the better option in your case would be to sell the PPKS and use the cash to buy some history books.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: "In the classic words of Poirot, who has a motive?"

        I thought his classic words were "Cherchez la femme."

  15. Mr Young
    Mushroom

    @Matt

    I think you're being a little unfair here:( I really don't know all the detail but we ARE talking about a human being after all - if he was depressed (and scared) then maybe some questions do have to be asked?

    1. Matt Bryant Silver badge
      Boffin

      Re: @Matt

      "I think you're being a little unfair here....." Deliberately so. I do think it is tragic that anyone as young as Aaron should take his own life, but the reality is he put himself in the situation with his publicity stunt of mass-downloading copywrit items a second time, and Aaron put the rope round his own neck. Do we hear any sensible debate on how we should focus on stopping other such tragedies by looking for the depressed and helping them with their issues? No, all we hear is the usual bleating and frothing about striking back at "the Man". I'm sure in his family's case it helps them to think they can push all the blame for Aaron's suicide onto an official they probably have a differing political opinion to, but Aaron was talking about being depressed and suicidal years ago.

      1. Local G
        Happy

        Re: @Matt @Deliberately so.

        If you are a 'fair person' (I realize that not everyone wants to be fair) does that mean you can be fair Monday, Tuesday, and Wednesday, but 'deliberately unfair' on Thursday?

        If 'deliberately unfair' is like being 'deliberately fat', it will take more than a day not to be fat. If 'deliberately unfair' is like being 'deliberately drunk', then you probably don't have as much control over it as you think you do.

        There is a reagent strip that allows you to test exactly how toxic your milk of human kindness is.

        Ask your dispensing chemist.

        1. Matt Bryant Silver badge
          Stop

          Re: Local Dupe Re: @Matt @Deliberately so.

          ".... it will take more than a day not to be fat...." How so? Fatness needs a chemical process - you eat too much food, some of it gets converted to fat which then needs another chemical process - exercise - to break it down over time. I can switch between fair and unfair with a single sentence. Besides, one man's fair is another's steaming pile of brown stuff.

          "......Ask your dispensing chemist." Dude, far too many of your posts make me think you are visiting some unqualified "chemists" in alleyways.

          The large number of sheeple singing Aaron's praises today are doing so from the very shallow angle of seeing him as some form of Internet "freedom" (AKA, piracy) defender. They know nothing about him, they certainly know nothing about his depressive tendencies long before he started claiming to have killed SOPA, yet now they act like he created the Internet (yeah, move over Gore!) and was driven to suicide overnight by the evil machinations of The Man. For that kind of gormless adulation I have nothing but contempt and pity, no matter how unfair you may think it.

          1. Local G
            Happy

            Re: Épater la IT Crowd

            You may have them in a tizzy, Matt Bryant, but you don't fool me for a minute. Unless you can produce statements by credible witnesses as to your nastiness, your despicable act no longer works for me. You're just another nice guy playing a meanie.

            Did you think I was born yesterday?

            1. Matt Bryant Silver badge
              Devil

              Re: Local Dupe Re: Épater la IT Crowd

              "..... but you don't fool me for a minute...." Hmmm, two points you should consider. Firstly, why would I be bothered about fooling anyone, seeing as truly nasty people don't give a proverbial? And secondly, going on previous evidence from your posts, I don't think fooling you would actually take much effort!

              "......You're just another nice guy playing a meanie....." Well, consider that most historic "meanies" actually had what they consider to have been good intentions, maybe it's not the openly obnoxious you need worry about. After all, many educated and cultured people that met Hitler in the Thirties described him as quite reasonable, passionate and even sweet! Hitler was applauded by economists and politicians for rebuilding German industries and keeping Communism at bay. Indeed, Hitler was convinced what he did was for the good of the Aryan people, not because he thought it was a mean thing to do.

              "......Did you think I was born yesterday?" Of course not! It would seem self-evident that it would take years of ill-education and drug abuse to reach your current state. :P

              1. Local G
                Trollface

                Re: Local Dupe Épater la IT Crowd

                Pardon me for saying so, but aren't you as big a sheeple as any of us on the left? You're just bleating from the 3 'R's (Rupert, Rush and Roger).

                While you don't have the sensitive look of Aaron Swartz (his face launched ten thousand comments), I bet you look quite striking in your Bear Grylls outfit. Très domineering.

                Alas you're still a sheeple in Bear's clothing.

                Interesting take on Hitler. Did you tell Foxman?

                "Did you think I was born yesterday?" Aren't you going to give me a little credit for the straight line? Set ups make jokes punchier. Expect more.

                1. Matt Bryant Silver badge
                  FAIL

                  Re: Local Dupe Épater la IT Crowd

                  ".....but aren't you as big a sheeple as any of us on the left?....." Yeah, cos I'm the one elevating some suicidally depressed guy and putting him on a pedestal - not!

                  "..... You're just bleating from the 3 'R's (Rupert, Rush and Roger)....." Oh dear, just more sheeple pigeonholing, no doubt fed to you as some way to deal with people that (shock-horror) do not follow The Faith! I don't read any of Murdoch's papers, don't watch Limbergh, and who the heck is Roger supposed to be?

                  "....I bet you look quite striking in your Bear Grylls outfit....." Whilst I commend Mr Grylls for his promotion of outdoors activities, his adventurous spirit, his service to his country and his obvious survivalist knowledge, I otherwise find him a bit of a prat and his TV shows quite annoying. I much prefer the more restrained delivery of Ray Mears, thanks.

                  ".....Did you tell Foxman?....." I assume you mean Abraham Foxman, but I'm not sure why you would consider him as relevant. Then again, given your often anti-Israel and anti-Semitic tone, are you trying to tar Foxman as some type of Jewish ultra-right-winger or quasi-fascist? Quite an amusing, if childish, notion.

                  BTW, SCHWING! All the above has zilch to do with the current legal complaint of professional misconduct by Assistant US Attorney Stephen Heymann. I'm also curious as to whom is funding/backing the attack on Heymann given that he has built his career on prosecuting professional criminal hackers, so who has the most to win by his removal....? Trend-du-jour anti-capitalists like Taren Stinebrickner-Kauffman (and if you thought Heather Hayes wasn't much of a looker then don't Yahoogle Taren!) also didn't realise it's the judge that does the sentencing, not the prosecution, so if Swarz had gone down it would have been the judge setting his "hell", not Heymann, and Aaron's own actions that put him in "hell". But hey, personal responsibility isn't really a trend-du-jour nowadays.

                  But, and most importantly, Eliot Peters carefully neglects to mention in his many interviews that Aaron had been told about the possible exclusion of the evidence on his laptop and USB drive from the case BEFORE he commited suicide (http://legalinsurrection.com/2013/01/sad-irony-in-aaron-swartz-case/) Got that? Aaron had already been told his chances of winning the case were looking better but STILL commited suicide. Gee, do you think he might have been just a little more than "very scared of the government" and maybe a lot FUBAR in the head?

                  1. Local G
                    Unhappy

                    Re: Matt, I think you had a senior moment.

                    Roger Ailes. The Dr. Frankenstein of Conservative Media. Creator of the Fox Network. Not a name as easy to remember as Taren Stinebrickner-Kauffman.

                    "Sheeple in Mears' clothing?" It doesn't work.

                    "Foxman as some type of Jewish ultra-right-winger." Any Jew who uses the expression "self-loathing Jew", referring to another Jew as Foxman constantly does, should be disemboweled and strangled with his large intestine. Why was Foxman mentioned? Because someone dragged Hitler into this thread, noting "After all, many educated and cultured people that met Hitler in the Thirties described him as quite reasonable, passionate and even sweet!"? Talk about off topic!

                    "I'm also curious as to whom is funding/backing the attack on Heymann..." How much was spent in this funding/backing? More than a million? Less? Maybe Peters wants to get scumbag prosecutors like Heymann out of the court room and back onto used car lots where they belong. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/14/aaron-swartz-stephen-heymann_n_2473278.html

                    "if Swartz had gone down it would have been the judge setting his "hell", not Heymann," A judge's sentence is how most trials with guilty verdicts end. Nothing new about that.

                    "The unreasonable delay in seeking a warrant, as a matter of law, could have resulted in the contents of the laptop and flash drive being excluded from evidence." Legalese for "Hey, I have A Pig in a Poke for sale."

                    "maybe a lot FUBAR in the head?" Got up nasty this morning, Matt?

                    1. Matt Bryant Silver badge
                      FAIL

                      Re: Local Dupe Re: Matt, I think you had a senior moment.

                      "Roger Ailes. The Dr. Frankenstein of Conservative Media. Creator of the Fox Network....." Ah, I see, someone you despise simply because he works for a corporation that does not reflect your political viewpoint. But, didn't you sheeple only start on the whole "Fox are scum" trip because they wouldn't fawn over Obambi in his first election? And aren't the sheeple now starting to bleat about how disappointed they are with Obambi? So, in reality, it is you lot now agreeing with the likes of Mr Ailes!

                      "....."Sheeple in Mears' clothing?" It doesn't work....." Very few of your desperate attempts to deviate off topic do.

                      "?....Why was Foxman mentioned?....." Hey, you started the nasty segway in an attempt to avoid the topic of the thread, i simply used him as an example of how often "nasty" people not have what they consider the best intentions.

                      "....Talk about off topic!....." You started the whole nasty line, blame yourself.

                      "?.....Maybe Peters wants to get scumbag prosecutors like Heymann out of the court room.....". So you can look at Heymann's record and point out cases of illegal behaviour? Have any of his convictions ever been overturned? So what you are really saying is that you think only prosecutors that share your political convictions should be allowed to be prosecutors? Very Stalinesque.

                      "......A judge's sentence is how most trials with guilty verdicts end......" True, but you forgot the bit where the jury decide guilt, not the judge. they decide on the basis of legal arguments presented to them by the defence and prosecution - if they decide the prosecution argument shows the defendant broke the law then they convict. given how Aaron had already confessed to his crimes, his chances in court were close to zero unless his lawyers could play clever legal games and get evidence (i.e., the truth) excluded, hence their desperation regarding the laptop and USB drive. You are basically saying you support their attempts to subvert the law and try and hide their client's guilt. I'm guessing if Aaron had been some fat cat banker accused of insider trading, and his lawyers had been trying such tricks, you'd be screaming about conspiracies and corruption of the legal process.

                      "......Got up nasty this morning, Matt?" Got up realistic, something you don't seem to have done for years.

                      1. Local G
                        Trollface

                        Re: I swear, Matt, I'll never go off topic again <crosses fingers>

                        "El Reg contacted Heymann's office for comment on the allegations, but has received no response at time of going to press. ®"

                        Let's see, this went to press on the 14th. Don't you think there would be an update if the scumbag Heymann and his scumbag office had responded to El Reg?

                        I'll bet the IRS is going over Iain Thomson's last half dozen returns right now.

                        1. Matt Bryant Silver badge
                          Facepalm

                          Re: Local Dupe Re: I swear, Matt, I'll never go off topic again <crosses fingers>

                          ".....Don't you think there would be an update if the scumbag Heymann and his scumbag office had responded to El Reg?...." What makes you think there hasn't been a brush-off response, something along the lines of "Thank you for your enquiry, we are currently evaluating the situation and will make a statement to the press as and when we are sure we have given the matter the correct and appropriate consideration" - click! After all, we think El Reg is stellar, but I'm pretty sure the US Dept of Justice has a prioritisation list of more "esteemed"/steaming organs such as the Washington Post, New York Times, CNN, Sky News, etc., etc., with El Reg probably not even on the list.

                          ".....Iain Thomson...." SCHWING! I bet you're a laugh with New Year resolutions too.

                          I see you have no response to the news that Aaron knew about the possibility that the laptop and USB drive evidence was going to be barred BEFORE he commited suicide, the fact he had talked of being suicidally depressed BEFORE he even started the download stunt, and have not supplied any evidence of wrong-doing in Mr Heymann's previous trials, so can we all safely assume (as most of us probably already do) that you have capitulated on the rediculous idea that Heymann drove Manning to suicide?

                          1. Local G
                            Stop

                            Re: Local Dupe I swear, Matt, I'll never go off topic again <crosses fingers>

                            "the US Dept of Justice has a prioritisation list of more "esteemed"/steaming organs such as the Washington Post, New York Times, CNN, Sky News, etc., etc., with El Reg probably not even on the list."

                            So what have you subsequently learned from these flaccid organs about Mr Heymann's misconduct? Or did all the media (maybe not Fox) get the 'brush-off' response too? After all, next to a 8.5 Richter graph on your lie detector test or floating in the witch pond in Salem, Mass., one of the great tests of the innocence an accused is the brush off response. If the subject bothers to talk to the press, he's as guilty as hell. Of course, the greatest sign of a false accusation is the the paper bag response. The accused puts a paper bag over his head until the judge directs a verdict in his favor.

                            Once the bag goes on, you can bet the farm he'll get off.

                            "I bet you're a laugh with New Year resolutions too." I was only concerned for Iain Thomson's family, if he becomes a 'disappeared'.

                            "Aaron knew about the possibility that the laptop and USB drive evidence was going to be barred BEFORE he commited suicide."

                            THE LAPTOP AND USB DRIVE EVIDENCE WAS GOING TO BE BARRED. This was a ruling by the judge? Give me a link to this nugget. Please.

                            1. Matt Bryant Silver badge
                              Stop

                              Re: Local Dupe I swear, Matt, I'll never go off topic again <crosses fingers>

                              ".....So what have you subsequently learned from these flaccid organs about Mr Heymann's misconduct?....." What we have learned is that one of his previous on victims have been challenged in court or in the media, not even by looney tunes types like Moveon, etc.

                              "..... I was only concerned for Iain Thomson's family, if he becomes a 'disappeared'....." Wow! Are you mainlining conspiracy theorist dribblings?

                              ".....This was a ruling by the judge? Give me a link to this nugget. Please." It had not been ruled on by the judge but the legal argument had been explained to Aaron. That info was in the link I posted 19th March at 20:06GMT.

                              You're still dancing round the admittance that Aaron Swarz committed suicide because of Aaron Swarz, not Heymann, and the current complaint is a waste of time.

                              1. Local G
                                Angel

                                Re: Thank you for your prompt attention.

                                "we have learned is that one of his previous on victims have been challenged in court." Anything about the rest of his victims? I suppose, that like being a pederast, it only takes one victim to prove your point.

                                "Are you mainlining conspiracy theorist dribblings?" I worry about good people, Matt. Not just everybody on my side of an issue. That's what you do, no matter how sketchy their achievements are (viz Roger Ailes.)

                                "That info was in the link I posted 19th March at 20:06GMT." Well, shouldn't you have been more careful about repeating it in your post Thursday 21st March 2013 12:01 GMT? I thought you were nothing if not diligent, thorough, and extremely attentive to details. Not to mention very concerned to avoid doing wrong.

                                "You're still dancing round the admittance that Aaron Swarz committed suicide." Been there. Done that. Finally a topic I know more about than you. But a topic not suitable for polite conversation :oP

                                Is Stephen Heymann responsible for Aaron's death? No more than living in America and reading the news every day.

                                Yes, Aaron Swartz is in a better place than 21st Century America.

                                There's no doubt about that.

                                1. Matt Bryant Silver badge
                                  Facepalm

                                  Re: Local Dupe Re: Thank you for your prompt attention.

                                  <Yawn>. Oh, sorry, I think I nodded off waiting for you to post something that wasn't just an avoidance of admitting you lost the argument. I assume you and the like-minded Anons have been too busy slating Adria Richards for you to have thought up a more relevant reply?

                                  1. Local G
                                    Trollface

                                    Yeah, Adria Richards. Relevance herself.

                                    Were you nodding off when you read " No more than living in America and reading the news every day?" There were several factors that contributed to Aaron's suicide, and Heymann was one of them.

                                    Who decided I lost? Is there a team of Matt Bryant fanboise here with red cards?

                                    Or are you your only fanboi? Aw.

                                    1. Matt Bryant Silver badge
                                      FAIL

                                      Re: Yeah, Adria Richards. Relevance herself.

                                      "......There were several factors that contributed to Aaron's suicide, and Heymann was one of them....." No he wasn't. Swarz originally posted that he was feeling suicidal when he was in San Francisco and failing to please Conde Nast. That was before he even started his hactivism and came to the attention of the US authorities with the PACER affair in 2008. In short, people like you want to believe your hero was driven to suicide by The Man. Enjoy your view from head-down in the sandpit, just don't expect those of us with a less blinkered perspective to be as self-delusional.

                                      ".....Or are you your only fanboi?....." Why is it that some are so desperate to "belong" that they think independent thought would be a horrible fate? Have you ever dared to disagree and swim against the current? The Adria Richards dig was just to point out the hypocrisy of your like-minded Anons - all for liberty, equality, etc., unless someone points out a flaw in one of your own, and then they reveal themselves for the mob they are (http://www.forbes.com/sites/deannazandt/2013/03/22/why-asking-what-adria-richards-could-have-done-differently-is-the-wrong-question/). And then nothing is beneath your fellow "activists", not even childish racism. You claim Heymann drove Swarz to suicide, but maybe all it took was for Swarz to realise the kind of childish thugs that he was giving "inspiration" to. Ask yourself, do you think Aaron would have stood up and supported the vitriolic witchhunt against Adria?

                                      Oh, sorry, did I ask you to try thinking for yourself? Maybe if you and Mr Young got together you might have half a spine between you.

                                      1. Local G
                                        Happy

                                        Re: Yeah, Adria Richards. Relevance herself.

                                        Dude, why didn't you say "Big Dongles"? They always will be relevant in a thread about the suicide of a prodigy programmer. You hear of some poor felo de se and the first thing you say is 'cherchez la big dongles. Seriously, who'd have figured you for a founder of the Junior Anti-Sex League?

                                        And you can rest easy about Adria. This'll put SendGrid into Bankruptcy Court and hundreds of techies into the unemployment queue. http://www.mercurynews.com/jobs/ci_22852550/adria-richards-firing-tech-developer-twitter-pycon

                                        1. Matt Bryant Silver badge
                                          Stop

                                          Re: Local Dupe Re: Yeah, Adria Richards. Relevance herself.

                                          ".....They always will be relevant in a thread about the suicide of a prodigy programmer....." Sorry to interupt your pedestal elevation activities, but IMHO Aaron was not a "prodigy programmer". He was obviously smart, even managed to convert some of his ideas into a business strategem, but "prodigy"? Sorry, that boat don't float. You are entitled to your opion but I would reserve the use of the term "prodigy" for people like Linus Torvalds or Bill Gates (yes, the latter is deliberate flamebait!).

                                          ".....Seriously, who'd have figured you for a founder of the Junior Anti-Sex League?......" No-one that knows me, but then I also don't find death threats and racist rantings to my taste, and the Anonyputz channels have been overflowing with them regarding Adria Richards. Whilst you could justifiably argue she over-reacted and made a mountain out of a molehill, the response from the Anons is simply horrific. Ignoring the racism and death threats, what happens if The Reg ever says it doesn't think any particular Anon op was a good idea, would you support the censorship-by-DDoS of The Reg? Do you think Aaron Swarz would?

                                          The Adria Richards thing is even funnier given the oft-quoted Anonyputz love of "whistleblowers" - Adria, in her over-blown, self-publicising way, blew the whistle on continued sexist sentiments in the coder community, and the Anons are punishing her! Hilariously ironic. If she'd been blowing the whistle on a group the Anons hated - say the comments had been made by attendees at the Republican convention - then she would already be an Anon heroine, right up there on a pedestal beside Aaron's.

                                          1. Local G
                                            Happy

                                            Far From The Bleating Crowd

                                            'Prodigy Programmer'. bad alliteration. sorry

                                            "I also don't find death threats and racist rantings to my taste"

                                            'Hence, his encyclopedic knowledge of guns, Watson.'

                                            "the response from the Anons is simply horrific."

                                            Do you remember the response from the conservative Anons during the Republican House investigation and impeachment of Clinton? Oh, and when Ken Starr quit to teach at Pepperdine Law School and was forced to give up the appointment by TPTB of the Republican party and return to the Grand Jury?

                                            "Anonyputz love of "whistleblowers"

                                            Those are the Anonyputz of the left. What about Anonyputz of the right hatred of "whistle blowers"?

                                            "If she'd been blowing the whistle on a group the Anons hated - say the comments had been made by attendees at the Republican convention - then she would already be an Anon heroine."

                                            1) That door swings both ways. Look at the increase of spending under Republican congresses under Bush, Jr. Didn't they love spending money they didn't have? When Obama took office they got religion and hated spending,

                                            2) Don't say 'blowing the whistle' referring to Adria Richards. Look what she did to a guy that just said 'dongle.'

                                            In the US, Newton's 3rd law of motion is at work. Equal but opposite Anonyputzs everywhere you look. If you're a Rightie, you don't see the Anons on the right as much as you see the Anons on the left.

                                            You can pretend it's not true for your side. But you do so at your own peril.

                                            1. Matt Bryant Silver badge
                                              FAIL

                                              Re: Far From The Bleating Crowd

                                              ".....Hence, his encyclopedic knowledge of guns....." That's just desperation, it's like saying every lawyer must be a thief, paedophile, embezzler and murderer because they know about the law. Desperate fail!

                                              "......Do you remember the response from the conservative Anons during the Republican House investigation and impeachment of Clinton?......" Nope, cos there simply wasn't. Not by the Anon herders, anyway, and definitely nothing labelling itself as Anon. Yes, those "we don't have leaders" herders that choreograph how the Anonyputz mobs dribble, and if you really want to pretend they are anything but Liberal/left in their views then you really are going beyond desperation. The right wingers are all hanging out at the Tea Party, or don't you remember your own propaganda?

                                              "......Don't say 'blowing the whistle' referring to Adria Richards....." Why not? In essence, that's exactly what she did, even if she did it in a stupid manner. Just think how political correctness would be gagging you if the subject matter had been racism or homophobia, but good old sexism about a dongle you think is just fine, right? Very illuminating.

                                              ".....Equal but opposite Anonyputzs everywhere you look. If you're a Rightie, you don't see the Anons on the right as much as you see the Anons on the left......" Puh-lease! For any one Anon with rightist views I'd suggest there are a dozen leftist ones. If you want to disprove that then please do supply some details on right-wing Anon rants and leftist organisations they have attacked. Did I miss Op MoveOn?. In truth, their hyperbole is laced with the classic leftist dribblings about bankers, capitalism, corporate America, etc., etc.

                                              "......You can pretend it's not true for your side. But you do so at your own peril." Your levels of self-denial are truly comic beyond belief! But, if you want to prove me wrong, please do the supply reports on the Anon-badged attacks on Clinton and their rightist attacks on leftist orgs that you insist are out there.

                                              1. This post has been deleted by its author

                                              2. Local G
                                                Facepalm

                                                @ Matt Bryant "For any one Anon with rightist views I'd suggest there are a dozen leftist ones.

                                                So for every 12 Anons with leftist views there's only one rightist Anon. And what is the ratio for sheeple? For every 100 leftist sheeple, how many righty sheeple are there? Is it more even? The same? Perhaps there are more righty sheeple?

                                                "it's like saying every lawyer must be a thief, paedophile, embezzler and murderer" Glad you brought the discussion back to Stephen Heymann. Would you mind if I included sadist?

                                                " supply some details on right-wing Anon rants and leftist organisations they have attacked."

                                                Do the names Andrew Breitbart and James O'Keefe ring a bell?

                                                "their hyperbole is laced with the classic leftist dribblings about bankers, capitalism, corporate America, etc., etc."

                                                And O'Keefe's is laced with fraud and criminal behavior.

                                                Your idea that these righty Myrmidons have to be labeled "Anons" and not just henchmen is your way of limiting your damages in these arguments. The modern attitudes of the right and left in America became clear to anyone one watching C-Span after 1980. No tweets, no emails, no up or down votes, just screaming into the telephone on C-SPAN. If you weren't a watcher during the 80's, the Thomas confirmation hearings addicted you.

                                                "please do the supply reports on the Anon-badged attacks on Clinton"

                                                I suggest you get all the tapes of the call-in shows on C-SPAN during that period and watch them yourself.

                                                "why did he (Ken Starr) try to leave the independent counsel's job in 1997 for the life of a dean at Pepperdine University?"

                                                Anonymous and not-so-anonymous voices in the Republican Party made Starr give up the appointment and stay on as independent (ha) counsel until the the House voted for Impeachment.

                                                1. Matt Bryant Silver badge
                                                  FAIL

                                                  Re: Local Dupe Re: @ Matt Bryant "For any one Anon with rightist views...."

                                                  ".....Andrew Breitbart and James O'Keefe....." You have truly raised the art of failure to it's ultimate form. A more ridiculous assertion would be hard to find, not unless you started insisting that Obambi was the running agianst David Duke for the Klan leadership. Please do provide even the faintest shred of evidence that Briebart or O'Keefe have ever been involved with the Anonyputzs.

                                                  ".....And O'Keefe's is laced with fraud and criminal behavior....." Trying to segway off into another topic because - once again - you have proven woefully ill-equipped to discuss the matter raised? This is my surprised face, honest!

                                                  1. Local G
                                                    FAIL

                                                    Re: Local Dupe @ Matt Bryant "This is my surprised face, honest!"

                                                    Really, Matt. It looks more like your 'caught with my pants down face' to me.

                                                    It's very disturbing to see. I thought you were a bigger person than that. :-(

                                                      1. Local G
                                                        Alert

                                                        Another post where you add nothing to the thread and are unable to answer a single point raised.

                                                        So kind of you to say so. But aren't you the one who perfected the argument of not answering "a single point raised?"

                                                        In earlier posts I said there are opposite but equal foot soldiers on both sides, which apparently you didn't read. I gave James O'Keefe as an example. And I called him an "Anonyputz". You got all uppity that I called O'Keefe an "Anonyputz", as they are lefties and O'Keefe is a right-wing-nut, not unlike yourself. (O'Keefe was originally charged with a felony, which he pled down to a misdemeanor, which fits in this thread.) I mentioned in prior post that I was calling right-wing-nuts "Anonyputz" 10 or 15 times.

                                                        Matt, I know that underneath your wretched rags of righteousness there's a nice person who needs a bath. But, my friend, you are not just floundering in denial, you are way above the sixth cataract, headed to Kharoum.

                                                    1. Matt Bryant Silver badge
                                                      FAIL

                                                      Re: Local Dupe Re: Local Dupe @ Matt Bryant "This is my surprised face, honest!"

                                                      Yet another of your posts where you add nothing to the thread and are unable to answer a single point raised. Oh yeah, I forgot, you must be doing it for the lulz, right? Or is it because you're too busy worrying that you won't be able to send penis pill spam from your Cyberbunker account?

                                                        1. Matt Bryant Silver badge
                                                          FAIL

                                                          Re: Another post where you add nothing to the thread.....

                                                          ".....In earlier posts I said there are opposite but equal foot soldiers on both sides...." No, what you claimed was that there were right-wing Anons that attacked Clinton - you failed to provide any evidence of this when challenged. You now try and claim two right-wing activists are somehow part of the Anon stupidity just because they are activists - that is just whimsicial denial. It's like claiming German neo-Nazis are members of the Communist Party just because both make political statements. Face it, you made a stupid statement and got called on it, and then you made an even more stupid statement. The Anons are a product of the Left, period, as shown by their continual use of stock socialist anit-Capitalist, anti-corporate terminology, and their fixation with bankers and corporate America. Your continued denial of this very obvious point is simply tragic and does you no favours.

  16. Mr Young
    Thumb Up

    lol

    Nice work Local G

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