back to article En Garde! Villagers FIGHT OFF FRENCH INVASION MENACE

England's world-famous White Cliffs of Dover have squared up to invading forces for centuries - but visitors to the seafront are warned to expect a more modern-day incursion: French mobile networks armed with steep roaming charges. Tourists taking a walk along the cliff-tops or beaches at St Margaret-at-Cliffe and St Margaret' …

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  1. Shasta McNasty
    Megaphone

    Operators Licence?

    I thought a mobile network operator needed to be licenced in order to operate its network in the UK? I doubt these French operators have such a licence and I would therefore assume (legal bods, feel free to shoot me down) that charging for such services in the UK wouldn't be enforceable?

    In which case, they can stick their roaming charges up their arse.

    1. Dropper

      Re: Operators Licence?

      Ask sheep farmers about the French and what passes for laws in that country..

      1. Frankee Llonnygog

        Re: Operators Licence?

        I'm intrigued. You seem to be implying that France applies onerous licensing terms to those wishing to operate sheep. Better that than the scourge of widespread unlicensed sheep operations!

    2. LarsG
      Meh

      Re: Operators Licence?

      You have to remember one thing here, in Britain we tend to follow all the rules sent down to us by the law makers.

      Johnny Foreigner on the other side of the channel tends to stick his finger up in the air and shout Je t'encule les rosbifs!

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Operators Licence?

      As one American commented on workers at a French Tyre factory hoping for a foreign buyout, "they come into work for 7 hours a day, two of those hours is a lunch break and two hours are for coffee breaks. They are productive for less that 3 hours a day on top wages and you wonder why the business is failing?"

      Note that the Unions would not negotiate on pay or conditions.

      That about sums up French belligerence.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Operators Licence?

        And as that yank was told, the French factory is bigger, more efficient, sells more tyres and has a higher productivity per worker than his USA drones can manage, although the USA as a whole has a high productivity rate. In fact, French worker productivity as a whole is higher even than that in Germany and GB is below all the other G7 countries. Try searching the internet for some figures. By way of consolation: GB employs more workers and creates more jobs to achieve its figures; USA, for example, increased its productivity per worker in work by increasing unemployment by 4 %. One could reasonably argue that more people in jobs is better.

        Learn to love your neighbour and remember that a couple of million British have got holiday homes or other ties in France, with many of the rest taking holidays, enjoying the food and so on. Meanwhile, remember that France is a significant source of tourism and other business for GB, with a fair (or unfair) few French residents in GB.

        Remember too that our language is heavily influenced, our culture - such as it is - and more betray a long connection. Even rather a lot of surnames, Christian names, place names. So stop being such xenophobic idiots.

        Also, large swathes of the rest of Europe manage quite well with the problem of signals crossing borders, as I assume do the Americas, Africa, Asia. How about putting pressure on British providers to come to sensible cross-charging arrangements with each other and with "roaming" providers?

        Ah, but I forgot, Britain's greatness, openness and flexibility stopped with the American take-over and the development of the GB cringe. Are you so worried that GB is incompetent and uncompetitive with its neighbours? Perhaps it really is so.

  2. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    small cells?

    small cells located in those areas - picocells/nanocells are probably a little too extreme but will do. should fix

    this - likewise they could turn down their power on the other side of the sea.... but then you'll get complaints from those people who then cant get signal on the ferries...which would then have to have their own cells..and massive roaming charges. just turn off roaming. any sensible person does anyway unless they really are travelling.

    I just feel sorry for the land-locked population of luxembourg who get many countries to roam with.

    1. This post has been deleted by its author

    2. JetSetJim

      Re: small cells?

      Some ferries already carry their own network infrastructure that they can activate when undocked/in international waters (not that "international waters" applies to the Dover/Calais Run, it's more for longer distance ferry trips)

      http://www.winssystems.com/ for example.

      PS - How do you disable voice roaming on an android? Settings only allow for disabling data roaming - receive a call and you'll still get billed through France. Does "manual network selection" achieve this?

      1. david bates

        Re: small cells?

        I got a roaming warning in Wales when my phone wanted to connect to Ireland. If I had been charged the carrier would have been told in no uncertain terms to do one, as I hadn't set foot off the mainland.

        1. Heathroi
          Coat

          Re: small cells?

          i thought being transported out of Wales in some fashion would have been much appreciated. No?

        2. Ross K Silver badge
          WTF?

          Re: small (brain) cells?

          Umm, the island comprised of England, Scotland and Wales hasn't been Ireland's "mainland" in nearly a century.

    3. Detective Emil
      Unhappy

      Re: small cells?

      Yup. Here in Luxembourg, one's eyes habitually flick to the top of the screen if one's near a border. And, as for those mandated text messages about roaming charges, they often arrive the next day, if at all (even if one's phone has been turned on all the time).

      1. JetSetJim

        Re: small cells?

        Perhaps they should mandate that the operator can only charge the roaming rate if it can prove that the phone has received the "Roaming Charges" SMS? Often SMSs get held up in the SMSC for quite some time (whether the originating one or the home one) and there is no guarantee of timely delivery.

    4. Rob Carriere

      Re: small cells?

      @AC15:47: "I just feel sorry for the land-locked population of luxembourg who get many countries to roam with."

      Try Baarle-Nassau/Baarle-Hertog one of these days. Half of the town is Dutch, the other half is Belgian. On some roads, you cross the border a dozen times in a couple of hundred meters. Great fun watching your satnav go gaga as it can't keep up with the 'Welcome in ...' messages.

  3. Anonymous Coward
    Headmaster

    Ancient news.

    Truly ancient, when I worked in Dover and had a BT Cellnet 'brick' it would roam onto French networks when driving along the main road towards Deal, specifically in the dip by the Duke of York's school.

    Possibly when the icon guy was HeadMaster..........

    1. diodesign (Written by Reg staff) Silver badge

      Re: Ancient news.

      Yes, indeed. I used to live in the area (and visit quite a lot) and switching off roaming is just the obvious thing to do. You can also pick up French radio, zut alors, so I guess this is a multi-spectrum invasion of culture, communications and charges.

      I was surprised to see it flare up in the headlines this morning. This article is a story about a story, and sometimes there's nothing wrong with that. Particularly if you can poke a bit of fun.

      C.

      1. Bob H
        Pirate

        Re: Ancient news.

        As you say, this is a well known thing, my fathers Vodafone analogue breeze block carphone would regularly lock on to France on a clear day back in the distant past.

        In this case I surmise that a DFL* from the media was having a pint down the cliffs at St Margaret's and called one of their friends (specifically to annoy everyone else in the pub), then they realised they were roaming and how much it was costing them.

        On a more important point, why were the French operators able to reach a mutual carriage agreement for The Tunnel but the British operators not?

        * DFL = 'Down From' London as they are known

        1. John Hughes
          WTF?

          Re: Ancient news.

          "As you say, this is a well known thing, my fathers Vodafone analogue breeze block carphone would regularly lock on to France on a clear day back in the distant past."

          But France never had an analogue cellphone network.

          1. John R. Macdonald

            Re: Ancient news.

            "But France never had an analogue cellphone network."

            Are you sure?

            France operated an analog system called Radiocomm 2000 (my SO is French and had a Radiocomm 2000 carphone in her car back in those days).

            1. John Hughes
              FAIL

              Re: Ancient news.

              But was it cellular?

              Apparently yes:

              "C'est avec Radiocom 2000 qu'apparaissent les premières notions de téléphonie cellulaire avec, peu après son lancement en 1986, l'apparition du hand over (capacité de changer de cellule dynamiquement) et de l'attribution de fréquences au sein d'une cellule. Le réseau couvre la quasi-totalité du territoire."

              So I'm wrong.

              Of course "En 1988, il compte 60 000 abonnés" so I guess I can see how I missed it.

      2. Gav
        Boffin

        Re: Ancient news.

        This has to cut both ways; French mobiles picking up English masts. Yet somehow the French manage.

        One can only conclude that the Daily Mail thinks its South English readers are too thick to know how to turn off roaming on their phone.

        1. Dave Bell

          Re: Ancient news.

          That's an interesting theory about Daily Mail readers.

          I couldn't possibly comment.

        2. This post has been deleted by its author

        3. Primus Secundus Tertius

          Re: Ancient news.

          I was using a pre-GSM car brick and phoned England from Dunkerque at English rates, ca 1994.

  4. JetSetJim

    Going on for years and years

    I've been reading about this topic for nigh on 15 years at least - what's different about today?

    Thought the headline referred to this story, instead:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-21711244

    Although I note in this case there seems no mention of advanced training in white-flag-waving as part of the exercise :)

    1. JetSetJim

      Re: Going on for years and years

      Here's a similar story from 2-3 years ago, for example:

      http://www.people.co.uk/news/uk-world-news/2010/08/21/no-headline-102039-22504429/

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Thumb Up

        Re: Going on for years and years

        http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-18875128

  5. g e

    Stick a mast atop the cliffs

    And charge the Froggies!!!

    Zut alors!

  6. Dropper
    Pint

    Johnny Foreigner

    Quick call to the remaining Dam Busters will sort this out forthwith.. as for the pub, well it's obvious that no one wants to risk being handed a 50cl beer instead of a good, honest, British pint, shorting us a mouthful of the golden stuff.

  7. Dan Paul
    Devil

    Civilized Provider Agreements

    We have the same thing happen in the Village of Lewiston, NY where Canadian cell tower signals often override our own.

    A simple call to the Service Provider making them aware usually resolves the issue. In most cases for our area, Verizon frequently denies the roaming charges based on the home location of the subscriber. Canada is only 1/2 mile away and there is a 20 mile stretch of the Niagara River in contention where boaters all want to have the cell phones working.

    Apparently if both sides do the same then it all evens out in the end. It seems that radio signals know no boundaries, go figure. Somehow I think that it would be too easy to just use the phone and cell tower ID to correctly bill the user. Once you go futher inland all bets are off.

    Probably alot easier to deny that you have not been to France than to say you have not been to Canada.

  8. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    In a progressively more and more global economic market, like regional restrictions on media, such localisations are becoming more and more anachronistic.

    I see why we have this situation, but since we have a number of competing phone networks in this country and they manage to sort things out between themselves pretty well. Just a shame they can't do something sane internationally.

  9. Destroy All Monsters Silver badge
    Trollface

    Holy flying camembert, lads!

    > why T-Mobile and other network operators can't fix this problem

    Ja, because the kraut invazion was successfully repelled, nein?

    VERHANDLE DU DAMIT!

  10. S4qFBxkFFg
    FAIL

    rant

    Why the Westphalian FUCK do we even still have roaming within the EU?

    The fact that, for example, Vodafone UK and Vodafone Italy are allowed to be separate entities isn't exactly in accordance with the spirit of the single market.

    Sort it out Neelie!

    (rant over)

    1. Destroy All Monsters Silver badge
      Devil

      Re: rant

      Well, you always roam between networks. Even in a single town, there may be roaming. How it is billed is another matter entirely and subject to a game of prisoner's dilemma, it seems.

    2. TeeCee Gold badge
      Facepalm

      Re: rant

      That would be the fault of, er, the EU.

      The big networks would love to give you preferential treatment when on one of their overseas tentacles, but they're not allowed to as this would severely piss on the picnic of the small, local providers.

      Put it this way. If your Voda, O2, T-mobile, etc phone contract gave you pan-European coverage on their networks, what would happen to 3's market.......? Ok, maybe not a serious problem in Blighty (although 3's continuous bleating about roaming rates leads me to believe that they think it is) but a really big, fat, hairy deal on the continent.

    3. Peter Simpson 1
      Alert

      Re: rant

      "Why the Westphalian FUCK do we even still have roaming within the EU?"

      Because there's shedloads of dosh to be made by all concerned.

      //always the explanation for things that should have been fixed long ago

  11. Arthur Jackson

    France Telecom - Pah!

    Strangest roaming message was from a Norwegian telecom operator - we were on the Cherbourg - Poole ferry at the time. Tropospheric atmoscatter I assume !

    1. My Alter Ego

      Re: France Telecom - Pah!

      Just in case you were being serious, it's because the cell and intnet often tends to go back to the county of origin of the ship. Doing an IP geo location when on free WiFi on Irish ferries will tell you you're in Norway.

      What I don't get is that when the ship is within reach of 3g cells it continues to use the slow and incredibly expensive satellite connection.

    2. cap-sip

      Re: France Telecom - Pah!

      Telenor operate some of the ferry-networks, so although you are on a freey, the signalling looks like it is coming rom Norway (which means costs to use my not be too high as these things go).

      This is much better though than some of the more "independant" ship networks - they really are separate, and your operator will charge you a multiple pounds per minute.

  12. Anonymous Coward
    Stop

    Typical Daily Mail....

    Can they blame it on the immigrants, bringing the signal over smuggled in their pants?

    Probably.

    1. Anonymous Custard
      Black Helicopters

      Nah, they'll just accuse the French signals of being illegal immigrants, and demand that either all such signal carry proper electronic passports or are immediately deported back, after of course a lengthy trial and appeals process...

  13. Measurer

    Furthest distance from operators origin country

    My old Nokia brick used to connect to Orange France network underneath the cliffs on Portland (no... I wasn't smuggling Brandy), approx 80 miles from Cherbourg as the barrel floats. circa 2000 ish.

  14. Longrod_von_Hugendong
    FAIL

    35 Kms

    Why is the distance in Km??? We work in miles last time i checked. Try not to be Eurotards please.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Joke

      Re: 35 Kms

      Do you write for the Daily Mail?

    2. Gav
      FAIL

      Re: 35 Kms

      And the last time you checked would have been 1950.

      1. david bates

        Re: 35 Kms

        I just had a look at the nearest road sign. Miles.

        I suggest you have a look Gav...

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: 35 Kms

      Are you serious? What continental area do you think you inhabit. UK has been officially metric for over a century in some things and for all since I was at school in the 1960s. Pints and miles were just to comfort the retards. I notice, as a runner and walker, that distances for these are customarily in kilometres nowadays, a five minute K being a handy measure of a reasonable, not excessive speed.

      How can such retarded, antique atttitudes be expressed on a "technical" website? Do you still measure temperature in Fahrenheit (German? Danish? I forget) and shop in old pennies and shillings or even groats? Do you insist on converting the petrol quantities you buy to gallons (English or American?). Perhaps you are not technical in any sense, just some senile wanderer who found yourself here by mistake.

      There are compensations you know: a litre of beer is a lot more than a pint and comes complete with glasses big enough to hold it.

      1. Intractable Potsherd

        Re: 35 Kms

        Actually, whilst I agree entirely with what you say, "Are you serious" AC, I do still convert to miles per gallon for my car's fuel consumption. It just means more to me than litres per 100km, plus it's easier to do the conversion in my head from litres > gallons than miles > km.

      2. Ross K Silver badge
        Happy

        Re: 35 Kms

        UK has been officially metric for over a century in some things and for all since I was at school in the 1960s. Pints and miles were just to comfort the retards.

        Heh heh. Dear Reg editor, please make this post of the week.

    4. phuzz Silver badge
      Boffin

      Re: 35 Kms

      The is The Register, here they use SI units*:

      http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/10/17/spb_metric/

      *(except for beer and the altitude of an aircraft)

  15. Greg J Preece

    Having recently moved to Vancouver, I joined Wind, an up-and-coming pre-paid network (your credit history lags behind you by months, so I could only go pre-paid). Problem is, because they're deploying their own infrastructure, they're currently metropolitan-only. Never mind leaving the country; I'm roaming if I leave the city!

    So the first thing I did? I activated the roaming options in Android. Done! Now if I happen to accidentally pick up another network's signal out in the suburbs, my phone tells me immediately, and cuts off my data connection.

    It's annoying, sure, but it's easy enough to be aware of it.

    1. Dropper
      WTF?

      Credit Actually Matters???

      I find it amazing they won't do anything possible to get you to sign a contract.. major carriers go through the motions of checking credit, but believe when I say if I can get a contract phone anyone can. Think of a thing that's bad for credit and I have one (sometimes two) of those. I mean think of anything at all, and it's on my report. Including debt collection from a cell phone company. Never stopped me from getting a phone contract with Verizon, T-Mobile or AT&T.

  16. John Vickers

    ~100km

    Not quite Portland to Cherbourg, but I have had a Virgin Mobile connection from Garn Boduan (above Nefyn, Llyn Peninsula), to Wicklow.

  17. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Signal strength

    To rub things in, they're probably getting a better signal from the French network.

  18. frank ly
    Coat

    re. "... a relationship thrown into turmoil by a French phone call. "

    A friend of mine once had a relationship thrown into turmoil by a carelessly discarded french letter.

    (Mine's the one will all kinds of stuff in the pockets)

    1. Mr Young
      Coffee/keyboard

      Re: re. "... a relationship thrown into turmoil by a French phone call. "

      So - I guess your "friend" discarded it before he used it eh?

  19. peter_dtm
    Mushroom

    I can't believe this is happening

    get down the small claims court !

    This is not new and is entirely the fault of the operators and OFCOM :

    1) Aerials at cell frequencies can be made to have very precise footprints; there is no need for any cell coverage beyond the international boundary (plus say 1 mile or so). Total fail from the Mast Installers

    2) Most phones 'know' where they are; just how hard is it to write proper code to validate the 'change' of location ? Total fail from the ISPs/Phone designers

    3) OFCOM should be prosecuting ANY unlicensed carrier allowing their signal to penetrate UK sovereign territory (see 1) above) – OFCOM fail (well; nothing new there anyway)

    This should have been solved when G1 cell phone technology – point 2 should give a clue as to how Luxembourg or any other border area should handle the problem

  20. GreyWolf
    Pirate

    Roaming charges not the only problem...

    ..on a Greek island, I unwisely connected to a Turkish provider, one call ate half the battery. This on the first day of the hols, having been allowed out by the missus with my bro on the strict understanding that I was to check in every night...and we were on a sailing yacht.. Recharge the phone every night? You must be joking...

    1. John R. Macdonald

      Re: Roaming charges not the only problem...

      Works both ways! Driving along the west coast of Turkey north of Antalya one is constantly flip-flopping between Greek and Turkish networks.

  21. AndrueC Silver badge
    Joke

    no man is an island

    Apart from Robert Maxwell several years ago.

    1. Crisp
      Coat

      Re: no man is an island

      No upvotes?

      Too soon?

  22. Mr Young
    Facepalm

    Why not implement the function on the phone?

    "I have roamed onto a different billing network from your usual Mr Smith" OK or CANCEL? I'd guess I just don't get it so the icon's for me

    1. Dr_N

      Re: Why not implement the function on the phone?

      AKA switching off roaming.

      Anyway, many mainland operators offer special tariffs for border area customers.

      They are normally buried deep in the websites but they are there.

      1. Mr Young

        Re: Why not implement the function on the phone?

        "AKA switching off roaming"

        I'm not so sure about that - I say the solution is at the point of use/billing. Digging through options on a modern UI and switching the default to off only to find it's on again they next time you notice is not the best solution. It's ROTM (or piss takers) I tell ye!

  23. Stevie

    Bah!

    A counter-battery of cell towers is obviously called for lest British Democracy be undermined by the Feckless Frog!

  24. rar

    Not just France

    Here in the Lake District connecting to the Isle of Man (>80km) when up the fells is not uncommon especially when there are no "local" signals available.

    1. Kubla Cant
      WTF?

      Re: Not just France

      The Isle of Man has its own mobile networks? Who knew?

  25. AOD
    FAIL

    Zis is Night'awk, are you receiving me?

    Mon Dieu!

    I cannot fathom how the Reg headline writers didn't think that this story was ripe for a bit of 'Allo 'Allo? I mean come on, given the following aspects:

    France

    Communications

    It could almost have written itself, couldn't it?

    For the benefit of readers who don't have a clue what I'm wittering on about, feel free to expand your horizons here:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/'Allo_'Allo!

  26. JaitcH
    WTF?

    Given the advanced state of ...

    antenna technology, along with the frequencies in question, the French should be told to install systems that are less omnidirectional.

    Canada shares a 4000-mile border with the USA and has few problems.

  27. Don Jefe
    Joke

    Bigger Countries

    The easiest solution is just to get bigger countries over there. We don't have much trouble with this sort of thing along the Canadian or Mexican borders.

  28. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Typical forgeigners!

    Coming over here stealing all our phone custom!

  29. Jonathan Walsh
    WTF?

    Repeats

    Doesn't this story crop up every couple of years?

  30. Big Chris H
    Thumb Up

    My pay as you go phone charges 12p per text in UK and less in france so it could be cheaper :-)

  31. Tank boy
    Trollface

    How quaint.

    Roaming charges. The Brits are worried about the French. It's like the 19th century with cell phones.

  32. Crisp

    Isn't it about time that roaming charges were seen for the rip off that they are?

    There is practically no real extra cost phoning home from Dover or Calais for the network operators, so why do we allow them to keep fleecing customers like this?

    1. zaax

      Re: Isn't it about time that roaming charges were seen for the rip off that they are?

      SMS charges are rip off in their own right as it does not cost the operators anything to send them.

  33. zaax
    Devil

    Roaming scotsmen

    If scotland become independant there will even more of a problem near the Scotish borders, apart from passport control which will be needed as Scotland will have to take the Schengen Agreement when the join the ec.

    1. Kubla Cant

      Re: Roaming scotsmen

      No problem. In Scotland the gloaming is an indication that you're roaming.

  34. Potemkine Silver badge

    What?!

    Reading on an english website that EU regulations are not _always_ evil? How is that possible?

    PS. Your mother was a hamster and your father smelt of elderberries!

  35. phuzz Silver badge
    Megaphone

    I used to get a similar problem, on the sea front in Clevedon (on the Severn estuary near Bristol), my phone would often ignore the cell tower on the inland edge of the town, and instead connect to one across the way in Wales. This would result in calls failing to connect, but could be fixed by turning off 3G connectivity.

    I mentioned it to Vodafone a couple of times, but nothing came of it, turning off 3G saved battery anyway.

  36. heyrick Silver badge

    Strongest signal?

    Doesn't a mobile tend to try to lock on to the strongest signal? If so, are you telling me that a French mast the other side of the channel provides better than a British mast on home soil?

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Strongest signal?

      RTFA

  37. Salamamba
    Unhappy

    Signal Strength

    French transmitters are always more powerful, TV as well as mobile.

    The brtish transmitters keep strength down to prevent causing problems in France, French transmitters don't care.

    Slightly bitter for having to pay a licence fee for years for crap reception.

  38. sean.fr

    GSM calls are in effect taxes

    The cost you pay for calls in effect a tax imposed through the government selling the frequencies.

    In a free market, the voice calls would be nearly free, and the data would be more expensive to reflect the real costs. Roaming would be nearly free as it just requires an exchange between databases to log where to send the call and billing. Virtual networks are able to work this out.

    The bits in between Base stations - even if if they are diffrent countries are nearly free as the fibre carries so many calls at a time. However if you call Calais from Calais with UK phones both the French and UK operator want to be paid. Just one wave of the EU directive and it could disappear,

    If you put UK operators on Mont Hubert comms tower (France) pointing towards UK, the problem would disappear. You even have a handy microwave backhaul to the operators at Samphire hoe or Dover.

    But who has a motivate to spend money to solve the problem?

  39. Bob 18
    Happy

    A Solvable Problem

    Cellphones don't (usually) just appear out of nowhere in a cell: they travel from one cell to the next. If you look at the cell history of a particular phone, I'm sure it's not hard to write a computer program that distinguishes between users hanging out in Dover, vs. users who actually got on a boat or train to head to France.

    This technology could be used to bill UK users domestic rates, even if they happen to have connected to a French network from Dover.

    An even better solution: implement EU-wide standards to remove roaming charges. Here in the USA, my T-Mobile offers free roaming anywhere in the country. Last summer, I called home to the East Coast from remote areas of Alaska, for no extra fee.

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