So similar to apples model? Frequent, cheaper updates. Seems to make sense and might move away from the 'waiting for sp1' syndrome if releases are less clearly defined.
Big Windows updates may ship this summer – and every summer
Rumors that a major feature update for Windows 8 will arrive this summer have been flying around for months. But if the latest buzz is to be believed, what Microsoft is actually cooking up could be something much bigger than your typical Service Pack. According to an anonymous source who has been whispering in Redmond-watcher …
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Saturday 9th February 2013 03:16 GMT Anonymous Coward
Look at our new v9...I mean v10 model!
Well, not exactly. Apple, for some reason or another, has stalled on OS 10 for far too long. You really don't believe Apple actually has abandoned the numeral X for it's character representation do you? Companies are not going to abandon versioning now matter how it seems, because it is great when you need to sell that old thing as new again!
Microsoft isn't actually giving up versioning, but putting off innovating new things by stretching the old.
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Saturday 9th February 2013 03:47 GMT Anonymous Coward
Re: Look at our new v9...I mean v10 model!
>"Well, not exactly. Apple, for some reason or another, has stalled on OS 10 for far too long."
Funny thing - which company has the stale-looking and limited desktop that hasn't changed for over 10 years now. Didn't these guys used to be innovators? Now I guess all that effort goes into writing new jokes for Siri.
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Saturday 9th February 2013 04:17 GMT Anonymous Coward
Re: Look at our new v9...I mean v10 model!
People who would describe themselves as not being very good computers are often frustrated by even minor changes to the way their computers work. Often they learn a computer task like driving instructions, step by step. Unless there is a compelling reason to change their computer works, don't bother. The Macs today work how I remember them working 20 years ago, when we had LCIIIs in school. Sure, things have changed, but in essence the desktop looks and works the same.
The noises we've all heard re Win 8's missing Start Menu or Ubuntu's Unity DE suggest that some people get annoyed if features are changed or relocated. If new hardware technology calls for a radical change in the interface (like mice and windowed GUIs) then maybe it's better to give its own GUI, rather than mangle an existing one- the chances are that if an OS GUI requires changes to support new technologies, so will many of the applications that run on it.
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Sunday 10th February 2013 12:23 GMT Marcelo Rodrigues
Re: Look at our new v9...I mean v10 model!
This is really scary. I remmember am user, who called me with a problem.
User: "I don't know how to save a document with this new version!"
I: "But it is exactly the same! File menu, and the option is there!"
User: "No! It's not! Help me!"
There I go, to see what was going on.
The (brazilian) Microsoft Word had changed the file menu: From "gravar" (record) to "salvar" (save).
User: "See? There's no "gravar" anymore! How can I save this?"
True story
*sigh*
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Saturday 9th February 2013 17:01 GMT Anonymous Coward
@GBL Initaliser: "Popularity notwithstanding I think if you look at some of Microsoft's latest products it would be hard to argue a lack of innovation."
Yes, I agree completely. Microsoft isn't a favorite of mine, but we all know our favorites fall into pitfalls, no matter who makes them. But yes, it does seem there is some innovation coming out of Microsoft today.
As far as your first two words, "Popularity notwithstanding", well that isn't something to be brushed by so quickly. Popularity seemingly came become more important than anything else. It was innovated to start using plastics to create objects, but due to the popularity of plastics, many things are just plastic junk now.
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Monday 11th February 2013 17:21 GMT Hooksie
You mean like Apple have done since the dawn of their company? People seem to forget that sometimes innovation comes from replication. You copy something you like and make it better/prettier/more useful etc. Microsoft "invented" and "innovated" tablet computers for years but nobody wanted one. Apple copied it, gave it a stripped down OS and made it slimmer, et viola, market goes wild. But they didn't invent, they copied and improved upon.
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Monday 11th February 2013 18:37 GMT Richard Plinston
> Microsoft "invented" and "innovated" tablet computers for years but nobody wanted one.
Microsoft did _not_ invent tablet computing. It took an idea that had been around for years, including the Apple Newton, and stuck its Windows OS, with some minor tweaks, inappropriately into a touch screen. Most 'Tablet PCs' were only usable with keyboard and mouse which is why they failed.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_tablet_computers
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Sunday 10th February 2013 06:49 GMT Rampant Spaniel
Apple have a deliberate strategy or releasing frequent incremental, sanely priced, updates to their OS. There are a few reasons for this. Nice even yearly cashflow is one. Another is the the OS evolves over time in nice little incremental jumps, theres no huge jump to something 'strange' every 3-4 years, less people hold on until the next SP etc. The downsides are people only really compare each OS to the last one so it seems not to change much. I'm sure there are more of each :)
MS in the past have left quite a few years between each release to make a 'big bang' with each release and have tended to charge at least $100 to upgrade. What tends to happen is a bunch of folks get freaked out by big changes and never upgrade, another bunch wait at least a year before making the jump and plenty more get sticker shock (yet the same folks probably won't mind paying $40 a year every year but would freak at paying $120 in one go).
Both companies have great products and not so great products. I put win 8 on a laptop to play with and once I got used to it, its pretty decent for playing around etc, metro works quite well (especially on a touchscreen) but I'm sticking with win 7 on work computers. I think MS missed a trick by not allowing you to have a 'classic' mode on win 8. It really wouldn't have killed them to do it and it would give it a wider range of appeal.
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Saturday 9th February 2013 03:44 GMT Dave 126
Street Fighter II, Street Fighter II: Champion Edition, Street Fighter II: Hyper Fighting, Super Street Fighter II, Super Street Fighter II Turbo, Hyper Street Fighter II, Super Street Fighter II Turbo HD Remix... I did start wondering why they just didn't make 'III' already, and even started doubting if there had ever been a 'Street Fighter I'.
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Saturday 9th February 2013 04:18 GMT Anonymous Coward
Another desperation move
Microsucks Biz model is obsolete. They can't fix the millions of security holes in their O/Ss. So now they will dump some more crap code into the marketplace to dupe the gullible sheep with their portable crapware. It's like taking money from the braindead. It works every time. Microsucks needs some ruse to fleece these people over and over again and Blue is it.
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Saturday 9th February 2013 05:05 GMT Barbarian At the Gates
Time to think beyond Desktop OS
This subscription/yearly update stuff is crap. That's not what consumers want. Something that works great and does what they need it to is what they want. If it takes you a few years to make something that is so much better that it's worth money again to your customers...good. It's on you to do better if you don't like it.
Adding an ever faster treadmill just reeks of desperation. Make something new that people want. Or you are just greasing your path down the slope on your race to the bottom.
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Saturday 9th February 2013 08:29 GMT Anonymous Coward
@Barbarian
"This subscription/yearly update stuff is crap. That's not what consumers want."
That depends on how you apply it. I'd be very happy to start a subscription with Microsoft if that would mean I can continue to use supported versions of Windows 7 & Office 2010 (on my desktop of course) well after their EOL at 2018.
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Saturday 9th February 2013 13:13 GMT Naughtyhorse
Re: Time to think beyond Desktop OS
but that's where the money is.
M$ are just jumping on the bandwagon that autodesk have been riding for years.
And it will work.
e.g.
when i produce a design drawing in acad2013 and send it to a contractor, who then has to ask for the drawing to be reissued in 2007 format (acad files are non backward compatible after 3 years) what does that say about the contractor?
I rest my case
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Saturday 9th February 2013 19:00 GMT Malcolm Weir
Re: Time to think beyond Desktop OS
While you are correct in stating what consumers really _need_, you are totally off-base in claiming that it's what consumer _want_.
Right or wrong, consumers WANT updates that give them the feeling of having the new shiny shiny. Just look for a moment on any thread about a mobile phone OS: someone will bring up the notion (wrong, as it happens) that Apple's iOS updates serve all their installed base, while Android updates don't.
Your point is correct: none of those updates fundamentally change whatever it is the device was bought to do: in some cases they improve the way it does things, in others, the opposite, but WordPerfect 5.1 on a DOS machine still let's you write as well as it did 20 years ago.
In sum, what you're describing is the conflict between the marketing drive and the technical solution. And that won't change.
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Saturday 9th February 2013 20:05 GMT Rob Moir
Re: Time to think beyond Desktop OS
I can't hear your claim of "subscription doesn't work" over the noise of the millions of people yelling "Shut up and take my money" at Apple.
OK they don't call it a "subscription" and it doesn't "expire" if you stop paying, but look at Mac OSX and its pattern of yearly updates at minimal cost. Apple have the majority of their users upgrading to the latest versions of their new releases very quickly after it comes out.
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Saturday 9th February 2013 12:01 GMT Anonymous Coward
Re: Rumour has it...
> Macs are stale,
Customers like it that way. The psychology I've observed in Mac owners is that they want an uncomplicated system that is well made and hassle free. Rather like Mercedes card of years gone by.
OTOH Windows and Linux are rather like the way American and British cars were like in the 1960s. The American carmakers used the same basic ladder chassis every year, and changed the flashy bodywork from year to year so as to drive sales by making previous models look out of date.
British cars were technically advanced by comparison, and one basic design would be sold with various "cosmetic faces" - e.g. Austin, Morris, Riley, Wolseley, etc. And were comparatively high-maintenance...
It's a free world, people can choose an OS that suits them.
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Saturday 9th February 2013 16:20 GMT graeme leggett
Re: Rumour has it...
all cars used to be high maintenance - and user customizable.
When was the last time you were expected to apply the grease gun to your car's suspension or could add another guage or switch to your fascia?
There was could be more to British badge-engineering than cosmetics. Riley and Wolseley's would have different engines and sometimes significantly different bodies - the Hornet and Elf having only different grilles at the front but a larger boot than the Mini parent. On the other hand, it was mostly interior decor and engine size that set the Wolsely and Riley versions of the ADO 16 apart from the Morris and Austin 1100s.
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Saturday 9th February 2013 18:17 GMT Philip Lewis
Re: Rumour has it...
Stale???
I bought a MacAir 11" the second they came out, because I need to have something with me 24*7 and like it or not, this is an indestructible machine that defines the market segment. Own one and carry it every day for a couple of years and you will get the idea.
As for OSX? It took me about 10 seconds to get used to the interface and I have no problems switching between the office Win7 machines and OSX.
I have OSX 10.6.8 installed and I have not seen any compelling reason to upgrade at this point. There are all sorts of tweaks and changes - or so I am told - but nothing that makes me want to spend the 25 bucks.
Stale is a matter of opinion. Some of us prefer stuff that doesn't change every 5 minutes
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Saturday 9th February 2013 08:36 GMT Steve Davies 3
The only reason for this is $$$$$$
MS think that they can screw more $$$, £££ Euros etc out of the poor gullable consumers by changing this.
There will be a new coloured desktop every year which will become the latest 'shiny-shiny'
And lots of people here slag off Apple for changing their phones every 18/24 months. Pah.
I for one will never take out a subscription for windows. I am sure I am not alone here...
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Saturday 9th February 2013 08:40 GMT Anonymous Coward
This could be the beginning of the end...
Now, I know I'm not the average (Windows) user because my approach is both private & business use alike. But even so; one of the reasons I ended up on Windows (after having used Linux on the desktop for years (personal use)) was because of the faster upgrade cycle which Ubuntu & Debian had. And although Ubuntu provided their LTS versions which would give you 3 years of continuous updates, the update which followed often turned into a disaster (meaning: you'd end up doing a clean re-install anyway).
Most of all for my business I don't want change to happen every year (or every 3 months or sooner). I want my programs to do what I require of them and when a new version comes out then sure; I'll evaluate to see if it suits my needs and if I like it.
I could live with such a scenario if Microsoft wouldn't have the reputation of both being quite the maintainer (13 years of XP is IMO impressive) but also quite the changer and ruiner (developers don't need colour in icons, that's only distracting; they need several vague forms looking almost the same).
This could be quite dangerous; its the same crap you get on the PS3. When an update arrives which changes quite a bit then sure; you don't /have/ to put up with it. But if you don't you'll automatically lose the option to take the PS3 online and play games with other people. Worse: you also won't be able to go online to use your PS3 like a chatter box (videochat with the PSEye, quite amazing) because the same limitations apply. You simply can't go online, period.
So you'll just have to go along with them because you don't have much of choice.
I don't really look forward to this same model being applied to Windows where you'd also have to pay for it.
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Saturday 9th February 2013 09:12 GMT Neil Barnes
Re: This could be the beginning of the end...
"So you'll just have to go along with them because you don't have much of choice."
And therein the problem. Some people are shouting and screaming for new glitz and eye candy; some are shouting for what they've learned and are used to, and see no need for new toys. But because the UI is so deeply tied into the OS, with Windows you simply have no option. And because MS refuse to supply a choice of OS - once a new one is released, and the pre-loaded images on existing new PCs are all gone, you will get the latest and allegedly greatest whether you want it or not.
I'll say again - if Windows works for you, that's fine. These days, any antipathy is largely reflex or a matter of taste - and the current UI is most definitely not to my taste. Perhaps they'll change it when the new SP comes along, perhaps they won't. But I predict that what *won't* happen is a decoupling of the UI from the kernel, that the user won't be able to have W8 with a choice of user interfaces, and that there will be the people who both love and hate the new updates.
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Saturday 9th February 2013 09:34 GMT janimal
It sounds ghastly
If they write into stone the idea of yearly updates they will then be under pressure to release something whether they have it or not.
This means arbitrary UI changes or a new colour scheme or some stupid widget that inserts a twitter feed into your word processor or into media player so you can look at baby pictures while you work.
Since stable functionality is often critical in business situations they will need to come up with a system for refusing updates. ooh How about a running task which constantly pops up a full screen providing you a list of cryptic codes for the current updates you haven't installed each with it's own paypal button. Once a day?
Just imagine if this is how they had deployed the metro gui?
Personally I would prefer to choose whether I want to buy into Microsofts flavour of the month, rather than have them foisted up on me or having to jump through hoops to avoid them.
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Saturday 9th February 2013 12:48 GMT Paul Shirley
Re: It sounds ghastly
One of the reasons Win8 looks so unfinished is that pressure to release, with code still being hurriedly ripped out of desktop mode a week before RTM. Pray that MS don't pick the Xmas selling season as their annual update deadline or we'll face year after year of hurried hacks.
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Saturday 9th February 2013 09:46 GMT Fihart
Win8, reinventing the (steering) wheel.
In 1916 Cadillac created what eventually became standard car controls; three pedals, hand gearstick. Before then manufacturers went their own way, such as a tiller instead of steering wheel or the Ford T with what, today, seem hilariously odd controls.
Macintosh and Windows 3 standardised the present way of doing things with computers. The major change since then coming with the touchscreen that's essential for more advanced tasks on handheld devices. I speak as a Nokia E71 user that lacks touch.
Touchscreen probably won't find favour with users of large screen computers, so it was a bit daft to try foisting it on them.
As for incremental updates -- just another way of protecting the franchise from freeloaders and (presumably) charging regular users more frequently.
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Saturday 9th February 2013 18:25 GMT Philip Lewis
Re: Win8, reinventing the (steering) wheel.
Let me try and remember ...
1: Accelerator stalk on the steering column
2: Spark advance on the steering column (other side)
3: 1 pedal, down for first and up for second
4: 1 pedal for reverse
5: 1 pedal for gearbox braking.
Personally, I am thankful for Cadillac for having come up with the now ubiquitous "right" combination.
Paris: Because I think I would be able to manipulate her standard controls without problem
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Saturday 9th February 2013 10:07 GMT Anonymous Coward
Increasing the pace of global business disruption
There is a fundamental tension between the needs and aspirations of "consumer" users, many of whom can't wait to get their hands on the latest Windows "innovations" and those of corporate organisations for whom every new release, with its new set of bugs, incompatibilities and completely re-jigged user interface just means COST - cost of technical upgrades, with the domino effect of incompatibilities entailing upgrades to other software); cost of retraining and user support, as the latest UI "innovations" leave Users wondering how to do things they could do perfectly well before; cost of business disruption, while all the little (and some large) things that have stopped working are fixed. And they propose to enforce this disruption even more frequently?
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Saturday 9th February 2013 10:42 GMT Stuart Ball
Re: Increasing the pace of global business disruption
And that is why Apple doesn't do Xserve any more I guess, consumers proved more lucrative to them.
Microsoft is in a position where it has to please both the server and infrastructure userbase, and consumers & company desktops.
Not an easy position. It would perhaps be better divorcing its consumer & business divisions, which should each have their own engineering sections with a common kernel developed by a separate division. Kinda of like I perceive linux distros. Common kernel fiddled about with to meet the needs of disparate customers.
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Saturday 9th February 2013 10:45 GMT Martin Maloney
Am I out of touch? [guffaw]
"If Microsoft can switch Windows to a similar release model, the whole concept of a Windows 8, followed by a Windows 9 and an eventual Windows 10, could disappear. Instead, the product would simply be Windows, with Blue being just the first of many major upgrades."
If I'm reading this right, it means that people who decided to pass on Windows 8, hoping that Microsoft would come to their senses and ditch not-Metro, when they released Windows 9, are out of luck.
It sounds like "Windows 8 Forever!"
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Saturday 9th February 2013 11:09 GMT Da Weezil
Re: Am I out of touch? [guffaw]
I'm already moving family and friends towards a Linux based set up.. dropping as much Windows only stuff as I can and getting them used to more cross platform software. I banished windows from my desktop some time back and now only have a token install on a laptop (rarely used) and a basic win 7 set up on my imac which I never seem to need.
This does indeed look like a move to subscription based model with no physical media involved (or only available at a huge premium.)No thanks Redmond.
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Saturday 9th February 2013 11:00 GMT Gray
Of course the steering wheel must go in the center!
Eureka Feature! The steering wheel is now in the center, where both front seat occupants can uitlize it! One accelerator touch-panel on each side of the dash, pressure-touch controlled of course ... slide up for fast, down for slow, and a simple thumb-finger grasping motion for braking! No bothersome pedals on the floor. You'll love it! Automatic updates quarterly, revisons annually!
Wait until you see our new instrumentation display!! Here, slip on these glasses .. you see? There's the speedo on the right lens, the tach on the left lens, and in a neat row divided equally between the two in a 3D Ribbon Strip ... the gauges! Multi-colored warning lights duplicate every instrumentation function! Eliminating the bothersome analog/digital interpretations, elegant function-coded light bursts yield instant heads-up alerts.
And best of all ... AUTO-matic updates, delivered wirelessly while you drive! No more stopping at service centers, or making appointments. It's a Seamless, Ehanced User Experience for every driver!
And for next year, the MS-747 MagnetoYoke! Our engineers have completely dispensed with cumbersome, anti-intuitive circumferential torquing movements. Our Patented Ultra-Responsive Intention Sensor Technology provides instantaneous directional response. Combined with a Command Ocular Movement Director, your driving experience will be unlike anything previously experienced!
MicroSoft AutoWinMo~88, the Vehicular Interface of the Future, here today! Because you KNOW we care!
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Saturday 9th February 2013 11:10 GMT Anonymous Coward
Sounds great, but cant see how it will ever work in practice.
How will they distinguish between supported kernal/platform/application versions? By that i mean at what point do the platform updates (ie dotnet and its various layers) become no longer supported on which years kernel and how do they explain that to the user. Thats kinda the whole point of version numbers, so taking them away makes the whole situation confusing for everyone.
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Saturday 9th February 2013 11:17 GMT GBL Initialiser
Copy Cat!
Reading some of the comments on this article is making me cringe. Is this the same tech site where we all come together to bash lawyers/corps that file patents for everything and that accuse everyone else of copying? Now a company can't even change its release system, something that hardly affects features, without getting accused of copying someone else.
I am aware that it is considered that Apple make 'cool products' but has it got to the stage where Apple have made accusations of copying a cool way for fans of company <x> to bash company <y>?
And Linux/FOSS types, one of the concepts FOSS was founded on was the idea of adaptability and alternatives, not to mention that quite a few ideas in the area of Linux desktops have been taken from Windows over the years. You can have your open principles for all providing they are for all.
If something a company puts out is an exact feature for feature replica then that's fine, yell at them, but having a go for a change of release model is just petty as hell.
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Saturday 9th February 2013 13:07 GMT 404
Still in shock*...
...after the revelation that Windows 8 Pro does *not* have a wifi profile manager GUI last night. Command line via cmd window - not something visible when you're troubleshooting wireless issues in a crappy multiple wifi environment.
http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/windows-8/manage-wireless-network-profiles
Now, I did find a 58k program/patch to stop the instant fdisk&format back to Win7 enterprise, but damn it! It should have been already there.
;(
.
*5 hours later... App-themed OS models are useless on a device that must actually perform tasks reliably IMO..
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Saturday 9th February 2013 21:08 GMT graeme leggett
Re: Still in shock*...
The issue seems to be that it doesn't display all the wifi profiles setup on the machine - only those that it might be in a position to connect to. I'll guess that they expected that mobile users would not want to be distracted by a long list of every hotel and coffee shop wifi they've every connected to.
Sounds like something that Microsoft could change - if they wanted to. Perhaps by a KB or SP to offer the option.
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Saturday 9th February 2013 13:37 GMT Adam White
Makes sense to me
Shipping a new release is a relic of the era or retail boxed software distribution and only makes life more difficult for the producers and end users. I wish they'd thought of this earlier so the incremental improvements added between Windows 7 and 8 could be available to me without having to (shudder) use Windows 8.
In a way they've already done this before - there were at least three different versions of Windoes 95 over its lifespan, with incremental improvements and no great fanfare. One of the main reasons for that, as I recall, was because they couldn't get Windows 97 (which became Win98) finished in time due the effort of developing IE4.
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Saturday 9th February 2013 14:47 GMT nexsphil
This is about circumventing the uptake problem. If Windows 8 had been a success, Microsoft would have taken a successful step toward the walled garden 30%-of-all-apps profit utopia. They're looking at using Windows versions as a loss-leader so they can wrestle total control over the platform of the day and reap the ultra-profitable, user-screwing benefits. They ain't so smart.
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Sunday 10th February 2013 12:58 GMT JeffyPooh
Recommendation...
They may decide to downplay major releases. But I recommend that they trumpet the next or later release that will (inevitably) back away from the Metro interface fiasco. It may be slightly embarrassing for them to highlight it, but I've decided that I'm simply not buying Windows 8 - nor any hardware that includes it. So make sure I get the memo when they're back to their senses.