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back to article Graphene plus molybdenum oxides yields faster electronics

A group of materials scientists at Australia’s CSIRO and the Royal Melbourne Institute of Technology believe they have found a way to make graphene more usable in electronics applications. While it’s often touted as a wonder-stuff, graphene is still under development in electronics applications, and one of the issues is that …

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  1. Rentaguru
    FAIL

    That's Osbourne's 50mill wasted then

    When will these idiot government types learn that the backing winners lark has about the same chance of striking gold as winning the lottery. Our idiot chancellor finally coughs up a pittance to fund research and lo we've been trumped by fosters drinking, kangeroo bothering, sheila ignoring excuses for scientists who peed on the wonder material and made it even more amszing

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    1. John Smith 19 Gold badge
      Reply Icon
      Happy

      Re: That's Osbourne's 50mill wasted then

      "we've been trumped by fosters drinking, kangeroo bothering, sheila ignoring excuses for scientists who peed on the wonder material and made it even more amszing"

      Full marks for a quality rant but I think you'll find the Aus scientist are a bit sharper than your caricature.

      BTW "Exfoliation" is a technique used to expand the mineral vermiculite, used as a bedding compound and (potentially) for the precursor to inorganic plastics.

      Australia has a lot of vermiculite.

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      1. Dr_N
        Reply Icon
        Happy

        Re: That's Osbourne's 50mill wasted then

        "Full marks for a quality rant but I think you'll find the Aus scientist are a bit sharper than your caricature."

        Are they really though....

        "As well as lead author RMIT doctoral researcher Sivacarendran Balendhran and CSIRO, the research included participants from Monash University, UCLA, and MIT"

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    2. Anonymous Coward
      Reply Icon
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: That's Osbourne's 50mill wasted then

      Jeez mate, get it all out why don't you.

      The faster we learn to use and apply this new wonder material the better in my book; who cares who does it?

      I'd even chuck in a couple of STD-free koala's to seal the deal ;)

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  2. Magani
    Pint

    "...fosters drinking..."

    Real Australians don't drink Fosters. We export it to the UK.

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    1. Mikey
      Reply Icon
      Pint

      Re: "...fosters drinking..."

      Where REAL Brits ignore it and drink quality REAL ales.

      At least here in Guildford, we do. I belive the common rabble seem to prefer Stella...

      2 0
      1. John Smith 19 Gold badge
        Reply Icon
        Coat

        Re: "...fosters drinking..."

        "At least here in Guildford, we do. I belive the common rabble seem to prefer Stella.."

        Do publicans still call it "Old wife beater?"

        Not my term, just what I've heard.

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    2. John Smith 19 Gold badge
      Reply Icon
      Happy

      Re: "...fosters drinking..."

      "Real Australians don't drink Fosters. We export it to the UK."

      Advantage Aus.

      1 1
    3. Anonymous Coward
      Reply Icon
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: "...fosters drinking..."

      "We export it to the UK"

      Odd, I thought it was brewed in the UK.

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  3. Rentaguru

    That's just dead skin

    and a pile of worms.

    The things transportees will pretend to do "science" with!

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  4. Terry Cloth
    Alert

    What do you do with it afterward?

    How well does graphene degrade? What are its effects when it starts leaching out of landfills into the atmosphere / oceans / my backyard? Is this the Ice IX of the 21st century?

    Inquiring minds want to know.

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    1. Kevin McMurtrie Silver badge
      Reply Icon
      WTF?

      Re: What do you do with it afterward?

      Disposal? It's another form of inert solid carbon atoms. You can buy low grade sheets of it called "pyrolytic graphite" at electronics stores. It feels a bit like paper but can be infinitely sliced horizontally like mica. Hold one side of the sheet to a candle and it will burn your fingers. Place it over a very strong magnet and it may levitate. Those small sheets are used for spreading heat in high power microelectronics.

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      1. Ed 13
        Reply Icon
        FAIL

        Re: What do you do with it afterward?

        That would be inert in the same way that asbestos is inert?

        It's not a poison (unlike GaAs), but it's the really fine particles that are carcinogenic.

        0 1
        1. John Smith 19 Gold badge
          Reply Icon
          Meh

          Re: What do you do with it afterward?

          "That would be inert in the same way that asbestos is inert?"

          No. That would be inert as in coal.

          I think you'll find once Graphene passes it's ignition temperature in air you'll be left with a cloud of carbon dioxide.

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          1. Ed 13
            Reply Icon

            Re: What do you do with it afterward?

            You're assuming it'll all go for incineration?

            Terry was worrying about the effects of dumping it in land fill.

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            1. vagabondo
              Reply Icon

              Re: What do you do with it afterward?

              Terry was worrying about the effects of dumping it in land fill.

              I would be really surprised if it did not end up as CO2, methane, butane, etc. following microbial digestion.

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              1. MNB
                Reply Icon

                Re: What do you do with it afterward?

                You did read the bit where it is described they used molybdenum oxides to modify the graphene?

                It won't end up as "just", carbon dioxide, methane etc after breakdown. You'll still have molybdenum oxides in there. The safety sheet for molybdenum trioxide includes phrases like "do not breathe dust" and "limited evidence of carcinogenic effects". There are a great many "molybdenum oxides" to choose from though, unfortunately they are often very complex structurally and effectively mixed valence (as opposed to the simple trioxide & dioxide). That might explain the obseved improvements in electron mobility, as the complex moly oxides can act as both an electron donor and an acceptor.

                Like all complex materials disposal will be likely be a bitch, if only due to the (quite possibly trace) heavy metals used to get the electronic properties just right. Also any dust with just the right "nano" size is harmful to the lungs; whether the particles are inert or not.

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                1. John Smith 19 Gold badge
                  Reply Icon

                  Re: What do you do with it afterward?

                  " There are a great many "molybdenum oxides" to choose from though,"

                  True. And they also had a tendency to be volatile (a little problem that has limited it's otherwise excellent use for thinks like spaceplane heat shields. They don't forma protective layer like that on Alumium. They vaporise).

                  "might explain the obseved improvements in electron mobility, as the complex moly oxides can act as both an electron donor and an acceptor."

                  Which raises the question what does it do for hole transport? Relevant if you want to do CMOS.

                  "Also any dust with just the right "nano" size is harmful to the lungs; whether the particles are inert or not."

                  True but I think you'll find this is actually well below the active size, which IIRC is around the 50-70 micrometre size, rather than nanometre size.

                  My instinct is that the Mercury dumped from all those "eco friendly" light bulbs into the environment across Europe will be a much bigger health hazard.

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                  1. MNB
                    Reply Icon

                    Re: What do you do with it afterward?

                    Re: "True but I think you'll find this is actually well below the active size, which IIRC is around the 50-70 micrometre size, rather than nanometre size"...

                    Yeah, that's why I enclosed the "nano" in quotes, although PM10's are alledgedly quite dangerous too ... and that's particles in the sub 10 micron range (think diesel exhaust, without a particulate trap).

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          2. Robert Helpmann??
            Reply Icon
            Childcatcher

            Re: What do you do with it afterward?

            No. That would be inert as in coal.

            Ah, so we have to worry about black lung rather than mesothelioma? Sorry, just yanking your (carbon) chain. While it is doubtful that there will be a huge problem with it leaching into the environment, there are plenty of chemically inert components to current electronics, but they are mixed in with a bunch of toxic stuff. I don't see the problem changing much with the implementation of the next generation of materials, including graphene.

            2 0
  5. mhenriday
    Meh

    «While more work needs to be done before we can develop actual gadgets ...»

    Not to knock the research - with or without the intake of Fosters (exported or no) - but haven't we heard that sort of thing before ?...

    Henri

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  6. StephenTompsett

    Electical Engineering?

    Has anyone ever considered using Molyslip to speed up an electronic device before?

    1 0
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