back to article Home Office doc 'not qualified' to assess McKinnon suicide risk

Computer hacker Gary McKinnon has refused to be assessed for suicide risk by a Home Office appointed doctor, because the doctor chosen had no experience of patients with Aspergers, his mother Janis Sharp told BBC local radio today. McKinnon, who hacked into US government computers in 2002, has Asperger's syndrome. The 46 year- …

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  1. Dave Bell

    It's in the nature of the British legal system that there are two sides with contrary opinions, but if this is right, isn't the Home Office legal team being a bit careless in choosing their medical expert? More than that, what sort of Doctor would accept the job, knowing they lacked experience?

    Of course there is bias in your source: have you believed them too easily? I guess we should let the court decide.

    1. Dr. Ellen

      The argument here is over *which* court decides.

    2. Peter2 Silver badge

      So, he's not qualified because he hasn't assessed suicide risk in somebody on the Autistic Spectrum before.

      By that criteria there might maybe be a single doctor in the country thus "qualified" according to Gary's legal team since I doubt it's actually been done before.

      I'm not sure if this is a cynical effort to put the extradition date off yet further, or an effort to expose the lack of medical provision for Autism. I'm guessing the first, since one would expect the difference between assessing a suicide risk would be pretty similar regardless of if you are Neurologically Typical or on the Autistic Spectrum.

      1. Bill99

        Peter2 Doesn't Know Very Much About Asperger's

        Of course there are doctors qualified to assess suicide risk in Asperger's - including the three who have already assessed Gary (with compelling and unanimous results). If you knew anything about the condition and the empirical findings on the subject, you would know this. The NAS even provided a list of suggested experts who have the training and experience to be able to carry out such an assessment - yet for reasons unknown the Home Office chose to ignore this.

        It's a shame that you have entirely missed the point here - assessing suicide risk is *different* when the patient is on the Autistic Spectrum as compared to the signs and signifiers of suicide risk typically observed in a 'neuro-typical' patient. As an extensive literature exists to testify. Your post just goes to underline the dangers in this case of allowing comment from non-experts!

        1. PaulR79

          Re: Peter2 Doesn't Know Very Much About Asperger's

          Unfortunately I think this is a case of the goverment purposely picking someone they know will get it wrong like AtoSsers for all WCA medicals. Sure they *could* use an expert with relevant knowledge but that would leave them in the position of having a report showing the risk and then deporting him knowing of that risk. Of course this is just my opinion but I dare say that others will think along similar lines. Fuck this government.....

        2. Peter2 Silver badge

          Bill99 doesn't know as much about Hans Asperger's Autism as he thinks.

          Firstly, I did say that according to Gary's legal team. Read it again.

          Secondly, being HFA I do have some idea about the spectrum, thanks. As you also well know if you have read any of it; the extensive literature is contradictory, only scratching the surface and the majority of it will be going in the bin within our lifetime. While the doctors the NAS recommends would certainly be better able than anybody else, to be fair I just don't care in this particular case.

          I think Gary is a cretin who gives aspies a bad name and i'd like to see him extradited simply to get him out of the papers. He didn't have a diagnosis before being caught, and in my view he's just attempting to use his diagnosis as a weapon to serve his own ends, while doing potentially irreparable damage to the public perception of Aspergers, because like it or not he's the public face of Aspergers at the moment.

          And he's infamous for being a second rate script kiddie who got caught. Yay, what a wonderful public image he projects.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Bill99 doesn't know as much about Hans Asperger's Autism as he thinks.

            It seems Autism is the defence in most cases of anything lately, it's just been picked as a buzzword.

            Assange is using it as well, who next...I know, lets assess ian brady and peter sutcliffe, give them an appeal too.

            Gary may or may not be guilty of damage, but he hacked....the word here is not how, but that he entered the US computers, just as sure as Annon enter computers and remove lists.

            Also you may like to note, that the US has been recognising Aspergers and ADHD far longer than the UK medical society, so he would actually be better off getting his fitness for trial sorted once there if Theresa sends him.

            1. Peter2 Silver badge

              Re: Bill99 doesn't know as much about Hans Asperger's Autism as he thinks.

              Also you may like to note, that the US has been recognising Aspergers and ADHD far longer than the UK medical society

              Really? I was under the impression that a British doctor (Ute Firth) did the translation of Dr Hans Asperger's 1944 paper to English which was then populised by Lorna Wing, another British doctor. What had you been looking at, Leo Kanner's Infantile Autism? It's not the same as Aspergers.

    3. LarsG
      Headmaster

      If this is true then either he will

      Agree that no extradition takes place after a nudge and wink from the Home Secretary just to get rid of the problem.

      Or

      They want him gone on the first flight....

      So what is it to be?

      Might as well ask my window cleaner for a verdict, he'd probably give a better depiction.

  2. Gary F

    I wish Gary well

    Has he be banned from access to the Internet? That's a punishment in its own right.

    1. Mike Moyle
      Coat

      Re: I wish Gary well

      "Has he be banned from access to the Internet? That's a punishment in its own right."

      I know. After all this time, just catching up on the LOLcat backlog ALONE will take him years...

  3. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Not Surprising Really

    If the Home Office has access to the NHS 'specialist' we had to use for an assessment of our daughter the whole case would be 'off', never to be seen again. She was seen nearly a year back and by general agreement meets all criteria, but we are still waiting for a report confirming the verbal message. Hopeless does not cover the horror of dealing with No Health Support, (that is what NHS stands for is it not?).

    Mind you we are not dealing with something as straight forward as Uncle Sam's non system. We have the UK government machine with all the horrors of mistreatment thrown in.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Not Surprising Really

      The idea is that you'll give up and go away, thus saving the NHS the cost of dealing with you.

      Sadly, it works most of the time. From posts on community sites it appears to be deliberate policy, the NHS doesn't have the money to do the diagnoses they are required to do under the Autism act so they resort to messing you around until you give up.

  4. toadwarrior
    Trollface

    6 years to work on a suicidal aspbergers act sounds about right.

    1. hplasm
      Happy

      When

      is your debut?

  5. Dire Criti¢
    FAIL

    Speaking as a 52-year-old diagnosed Aspie. This is not an unusual situation.

    Would it surprise anyone to hear that there are no therapy or support centres in the UK which specialise in dealing with adults with autism or AS? It's as if the condition disappears when the patient becomes 18.

    As for McKinnon's demands for a specialist, then all I can say is that should be the first thought not the last one. The previous assessments regarding the condition sound pretty bloody accurate to me.

    In 2006 I went to the US on my own, voluntarily, and only for a month to stay with a friend. I had major problems accepting the change in culture and I appear to be further up the spectrum than McKinnon. When I got home I went into a downward spiral which took me 6 months to come out from. Not helped of course by the lack of facilities here.

    Autistics and Aspies think in totally different way to 'normals'. That has to be taken into account when being assessed.

    1. Graham Dawson Silver badge
      Megaphone

      Doesn't surprise me at all. The lovely wife is an aspie and has all sorts of issues that are compounded by the fact that, as a Swede living in the UK, she faces culture shocks nearly every day and still hasn't fully grasped basic idiom. She's seen several therapists over the years, only one of whom was in any way qualified to deal with aspergers cases and that only because he was an aspie himself. None of the others seemed to even understand what aspergers was, never mind how to properly assess her mental state or deal with the issues she raised. They treated her as simple depression in most cases. Mental heathcare in the UK is completely and utterly inadequate.

      Late diagnosis didn't help matters either, nor did the fact that Swedish healthcare is apparently even further behind than the UK when it comes to mental health. Over there they said vad tusan and stuck her on antidepressants that made the situation worse for several years.

      When I was a volunteer mediator I spent time talking to more than a few disputants who were also aspies and, in every case, the same basic refrain was repeated: there is no real help. They get bounced through the welfare system, have money and all sorts of pills thrown at them (or just the pills in a lot of cases), but they never get decent assistance and nobody tries to assess the issues they actually present. They're just expected to "grow up" and then treated like retarded children.

      Took me years to even begin to understand how the wife sees the world. She still doesn't properly understand herself but we're trying to get her fully assessed and, hopefully, that will help matters along considerably.

  6. Don Jefe
    Facepalm

    Equador

    If Gary really has full on Aspergers or most any other genetic failure on the Autisim Spectrum all the pressure is making his condition more pronounced. If he really had a genetic problem he'd most likely be out on the street 'preaching' his innocence to anyone who would listen: It wouldn't be his Mom speaking for him, it wouldn't be optional for him not to defend himself.

    DSM-V and new descriptions of ASD will change everything and help society define chronically ill persons better. New descriptions will mean a lot of dickheads won't be able to claim some kind of fringe disorder that until 15 years ago was super rare but now everyone on the Internet seems to have.

    Yay for updated medical reference manuals.

    1. Graham Dawson Silver badge

      Re: Equador

      Genetic "failure"?

      1. Don Jefe

        Re: Equador

        I grant you one on spelling the country incorrectly.

    2. Richard 81

      Re: Equador

      Yeah... careful with your terminology there pal.

    3. Bill99

      Re: Equador

      He does. His own medical evidence from world-renowned clinicians, and an extensive family medical history attest to this. If you also knew much about AS, you'd know the tests for it are extremely reliable, and it's virtually impossible to get a false-positive. And this much has been acknowledged by the courts - the diagnosis is not in any doubt. As for protesting his innocence, the devastating psychological injury arising from this prolonged trauma has made him incapable of doing so. Your argument is full of holes, I'm afraid.

  7. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    I second that

    Its not just that we "think differently", little isues like this week's political snafu profoundly affect our everyday lives.

    Its a bit like trying to use a computer when it is popping up error messages all the time.

    A lot of people with ADHD share similar symptoms, such as extreme auditory sensitivity and inability to filter out ambient distractions.

    In Gary's case, it was his obsession with UFOs and free energy that drove most if not all of his hacking exploits.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Does Aspergers even exist?

      Does Aspergers even exist. Is it just another case of the medical profession policing peoples behavour. What next, doping young children with tranqualizers for acting like .. young children.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Does Aspergers even exist?

        Yes, it does. I've a 12 year old with "mild" aspergers. I put the "mild" in quotes because I've no-one to compare him against, but that was his diagnosis.

        Knowing him as I do, I can assure you it most certainly exists. He does NOT use it to try to "get away with things", to draw attention to himself. He knows he has it, he knows he's "different", he hates it, but he knows he just has to get on with it.

        Nor do I use it, I fought hard to ensure he goes to mainstream education and is treated like any other kid save for the presence of a teaching assistant.

        He isn't on any medication, I don't want him to be on any medication, and he doesn't want to be on any medication - despite some seemingly wanting him to be.

        I don't even know if he's eligible for DLA, nor do I want to because I wouldn't be taking it even if it was available.

        There may be some in the medical profession who will diagnose certain things for certain reasons, and equally there may be some parents who will seek a diagnosis for some condition or other for some ulterior reasons, but in our own instance I can safely say there were no ulterior motives, and his condition most definitely exists.

        My kid is who he is, I do not perceive his condition to be any form of a failure, I love him to bits and his ASD is part of what makes him who he is, and it's a very, very fundamental part at that.

        Most relevant to this case, is that I know what makes my son tick. I've not yet met another person (his mother is the closest but even he acknowledges that his relationship with her isn't on the same level that he has with me) that really understands him, that can properly calm him when he's upset, that can make him feel at ease and comfortable within himself. An "expert" (and he's seen a decent few of those) simply will not be close enough to the person concerned to really understand him. To that end, I'd say the only people that really know the suicide risk of Mr McKinnon are, unfortunately, most likely his close family and very possibly only a limited number of them.

        AC, not because of my son's ASD, but because I'm not part of the "me too" brigade.

        Sidenote: For those having a pop at the NHS, sure it's not perfect but we sometimes don't realise what a wonderful resource we have. Have a little google to see how they generally deal with ASD in France if you really want a fright.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: son with mild Aspergers

          You're not the only one - ours took years of early therapy (think Harley Street 2x a week plus private education & shudder to think how much that costed - but it helped). He's now well adjusted enough to have a circle of friends, and sees his difference in a positive way (the fact that it is mild and that he's very bright helps).

          It isn't all negative - he's been speed reading since he was about 4, has a memory like a sponge and is very analytical which makes him rather good at the sports he engages in. I guess we've been lucky, but we know how much work it took to get there.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Does Aspergers even exist?

        Yes it certainly does. It explained pretty much everything about why my entire life has been unusual, once I self diagnosed 14 years ago at age 43, after my first marriage had broken up because of it, and my current (2nd) marriage was under strain for the same reasons. We (me and my wonderful 2nd wife) saw a therapist with solid experience of Aspergers syndrome who was able to help us understand each other much better and we're very happy now. I can't thank the therapist who helped us enough. I'm also much further towards the neurotypical end of the autistic spectrum than many aspies I know. I'm able to hold down a respectable job as a computer scientist and have had reasonable success in my life, but many aspies I know are unable to have successful relationships or cope with employment pressures in a fast-changing world because of this.

      3. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Does Aspergers even exist?

        I think they give the kids speed, don't they? Always seems counter-intuitive to me.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Does Aspergers even exist?

          Also I wonder what the condition is that compels people to downvote inoffensive posts.

      4. Local Group
        Trollface

        Re: Does Aspergers even exist?

        Isn't that what Matt Bryant has?

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Does Aspergers even exist?

          I don't know why it hasn't occurred to me before, but that name looks very much like one of the seriously disliked trolls that haunted acv (when it was still an otherwise-readable newsgroup).

  8. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    The medical experts hired by his legal team say he is unfit to stand trial while the medical experts hired by the crown say he is fit to stand trial. What a surprise!

    What the case needs is independent experts.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      ...and who chooses them? The court?

    2. Bill99

      Except for the fact that the numerous experts saying he's unfit for trial have actually assessed him personally. The home office are relying solely a single in absentia report (flawed in a number of ways), which conflicts with the *entirety* of the other evidence.

      I think we all know which view has the greater credibility - which is most likely why the Home Office, having initially intended to rely on their in absentia report, now realising it would never carry weight, suddenly decided to try again to force an assessment from their hand-picked non-expert. It's so painfully transparent, it would be funny if it weren't so sinister.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        I am SOLO. I will continue to disrupt at the highest levels.

        @ Bill99:

        please don't start on the conspiracy theories again. We all know your agenda. Argue a single topic until you are blue in the face, but in my book, leaving messages threatening to "disrupt at the highest level" is incompatible with seeking evidence of UFO's. Even more so when the alleged offender is affected by Aspergers Syndrome which results a single minded and unswerving dedication to achieving a goal (uncovering evidence of UFO's in this case). If he is so affected, why would he divert from his declared goal to uncover evidence: it's simply incompatible with his argued position.

        Back on topic. The point here is that evidence presented by either side on his state of mind will lean to each others persuasion. It is job of the prosecution to provide evidence that he is fit to stand trial, while it is the job of the defence to present evidence that he is unfit. Neither would be competent if they took different positions from those. The court is left to determine which expert to believe, when they should be determining his innocence or guilt.

        In my opinion, in all cases where a subjective medical opinion is required, an independent expert (or panel of experts) should be appointed by the court, to which both sides agree to in advance.

        1. Bill99

          Re: I am SOLO. I will continue to disrupt at the highest levels.

          Well now, this is where your argument is a bit wrong. He left many messages on the systems, stating he was a friend to the American people, and asking the government to please increase their security. The prosecutors (and members of the British government, it should be added) then leapt upon an unrepresentative quote, and took it out of context to make it look like his aim was to make threats. It wasn't. And there's nothing incompatible about his position at all, when you consider WHY he was looking for evidence of UFOs. Which you don't seem to have troubled yourself with.

          Back on topic, like you say. It is the job of medical professionals to state the facts accurately. And yes, to state their opinions. The thing is, 6 such clinicians (highly qualified in the relevant fields) have already done so, and there was no conflict between any of their views. On the prosecution side, they have chosen (against the advice of NAS) to instruct a clinician who is not qualified to pass comment, but yet who has chosen to do so without having even seen the patient. He's entitled to his opinion, but you've got to ask, what is it based on? And following your argument, if the prosecution believe the only way they can get evidence that he's fit for trial is to use someone that doesn't really know what they're talking about, doesn't that tell you something about the strength of their case?

          But anyway, it is actually Theresa May's job, not the court's, to weigh up and decide, which is the more convincing set of evidence: a single, flimsy, in absentia report from a non-expert, or 6 unanimous in depth face-to-face assessments from the most eminent autism specialists in the land if not the world (including independently appointed ones, if I'm not mistaken). Hmm, it's a tough one isn't it? That must be why she's spent two years dithering.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: I am SOLO. I will continue to disrupt at the highest levels.

            Pray tell us, succinctly, how is threatening to "disrupt at the highest level" compatible with searching for UFO's?

            If threatening to "disrupt at the highest level" is as a result of or in any way linked to his condition, then he could to be found a danger to the public and sectioned.

            Back on topic: I think we are at crossed purposes re the medical opinion. I do respect you comments about May (and for that matter her predecessors), but my point is that it is currently the job of defense and prosecution to find mutually opposite medical opinions. It then boils down to who has the deeper pockets, better lawyers and more easily swayed medical experts. Frankly neither position is defensible because they were both paid for by the respective camps and that way lies bias, not facts. Whether there was any bias or not in this case is not the point; the process of establishing opinion is flawed.

            It remains my position that for a truly above board report, the court should appoint an independent team of medical experts to report - in all cases where fitness to stand trial is questionable - not just this one. That report should be binding on prosecution as well as defense. It should not be for the prosecution, nor the defense to argue fitness to stand trial or otherwise: their job is to present evidence to prove or provide reasonable doubt over guilt, not to argue over mental state.

  9. Barrie Shepherd

    Is May Competent?

    Can someone remind me if a doctor has examined Theresa May and certified that she is competent to make decisions on people lives in the face of a bully attacks?

    This whole case seems to be based on some hairy chested bully, ranting from across the Atlantic, not the due process and application of "just" Law.

    One begins to wonder what toy the bullies have threatened to withhold from May.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Is May Competent?

      Only authoritarian idiots get the Home Sec. post.

  10. Will Godfrey Silver badge
    Unhappy

    So this has been rumbling on for 6 years now. Well as a 'normal' person I'm not at all sure I'd be able to cope with that. I can't begin to imagine how this would feel to someone with any kind of mental problems.

  11. Anonymous Coward
    Linux

    Computer hacker Gary McKinnon?

    Logging into a passwordless Windows NT box and installing a remote desktop viewer (which he registered using his real email address), could hardly be described as hacking now could it?

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Computer hacker Gary McKinnon?

      Not round here. But remember that he's not being hounded for hacking, he;s being hounded for embarassing Yank bureaucrats. No defence secrets were compromised, no damage done, but everybody thought that the Pentagon were useless tossers.

      Same with Assange - Wikileaks didn't release anything of real value or threat, but it embarassed the same bureaucrats, and their resentment is why Bradley Manning is never going to see daylight again - indeed the latest is they've stopped him citing evidence at his own trial. Might as well tape his mouth shut, Zimbabwe style.

      Meanwhile, with the British government anxious to hand over McKinnon, Abu Hamza still hasn't been handed over to the Yanks, Abu Qatada is still walking the streets of the UK, and the Home Office is failing (after sixteen years) to throw the Stansted hijackers out of this country.

  12. elderlybloke
    Pint

    When I was young

    I don't remember this complaint existing.

    Like many other things that are now common place , I am glad I was born before they were discovered.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: I don't remember this complaint existing.

      May I take the liberty of correcting you:

      "I don't remember the diagnosis of this condition existing"

      There is more than one example of someone famous from the past who it's now thought by some may have had an ASD - Einstein for example.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: I don't remember this complaint existing.

        And there's no shortage of dyslexics who were treated as sub-normal throughout their school years, of course. Like most of the injustices of the relatively recent past, you wouldn't believe it now if you hadn't been around at the time! Indeed, Civilisation is very much a history of politicians and the majorities they pander to reluctantly abandoning one prejudice after another (and they're not all gone yet!).

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: When I was young

      When I was young I suffered for it without understanding why. I still suffer from it but to a more limited extent because knowledge of my condition has enabled me to be helped. One of my 3 children has it, the other 2 are neurotypicals, and due to my aspie son knowing about it he's proving able to make adjustments to his condition somewhat better than I was able to. The fact is that this complaint existed when few people knew very much about it, but society found ways to marginalise us for the most part anyway, apart from the very few high-functioning aspies who made large waves in science or economics like Newton, Einstein and Keynes.

    3. Bill99

      Re: When I was young

      Like Gary McKinnon was, you mean?

  13. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Yes I committed a crime but I should not be punished

    That's the mentality of many criminals today. They are above the law and will use any ruse to escape accountability for their actions.

    1. Mark 65

      Re: Yes I committed a crime but I should not be punished

      I think the argument is over where he should be punished, not if.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Yes I committed a crime but I should not be punished

        It needs to end one way or another, and the best option is probably being tried here.

        From what I read, I think his mother is under the delusion that he should be let off and set free.

        Where as the best outcome is probably that he gets put in a mental hospital because, by his own defences admission, hes a suicide risk and not mentally stable enough for prison.

        1. Bill99

          Re: Yes I committed a crime but I should not be punished

          Well this is the thing. Technically, he has to be let off, because the Summary Offence that happened ten years ago - the only offence for which any evidence exists - can only be prosecuted within 6 months of the offence. It would actually be unlawful to prosecute now.

          Having said that, I think you misunderstand Janis Sharp. She's repeatedly stated that she wants him to be tried here. Even though that in itself would be unjust in comparison to the law that every other member of the population is subject to.

    2. PyLETS
      WTF?

      Gary was a naughty boy

      The argument isn't just about where he should be punished, but also about whether the scale of his offence is sufficient to justify extradition. Gary didn't kill or injure anyone. He did minor damage to property of a foreign nation. Imagine a nutty Greenham common woman cutting through the fence on a US airbase, wondering in and looking at some files in an unguarded office for evidence of alien visitations. The airbase security commander then orders a $10million security upgrade and blames her for this cost.

      Should she be extradited ? No don't be silly. The UK magistrates local to the airbase can deal with it.

      Should she get away scot free ? No.

      Should she be tried locally and given a non - custodial community sentence ? Yes and Yes.

      That's all that Gary's supporters are arguing - that he should be tried locally and given a sentence appropriate to the scale of his offence.

    3. Bill99

      Re: Yes I committed a crime but I should not be punished

      You mean like the bankers? Like the MPs with their expenses-fiddling (aka fraud)? Like Andrew Lansley, Jeremy Hunt et al. with their blatant profiteering (aka tax-payer theft)? Like Vodafone and Jimmy Car et al.? Like the police eg in Ian Tomlinson & Jean-Charles cases to name but two?

      You see, that's the difference between real criminals on the one hand, and Gary McKinnon on the other. He's never tried to avoid justice, or being held to account for his actions. He just doesn't want to be extradited to America on what are now known to be false allegations. What exactly is unreasonable about that?

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Yes I committed a crime but I should not be punished

        Instead of Jackie Smith doing time, she's popping up on BBCNews as a political pundit. Meanwhile my aunt recently said about how she likes This Week, especially Alan Johnson. I had to repeatedly stop short of refering to him as a c*nt as I explained to her how he tried to make us all carry ID cards.

        (I see Murdoch Monopoly-loving Jeremy *unt is still in the same job).

    4. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Yes I committed a crime but I should not be punished

      You mean unlike the way they used to be, turning themselves in all the time after a brief period of soul searching?

    5. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Yes I committed a crime but I should not be punished

      Works for the bankers. No one yet sentenced or even considered for sentencing. Still, they using the MP's line: "I've done nothing wrong".

      In facts it's even worse since some of the financial crimes have a "statute of limitation" meaning that they cannot be prosecuted after, in some cases, as little as 3 years.

  14. Pianoman99

    Habeus Corpus

    Whatever happened to the right of Habeus Corpus?

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Habeus Corpus

      McKinnon has admitted to the crimes...

    2. Peter2 Silver badge

      Re: Habeus Corpus

      Still alive and well. If he was being unlawfully held then he could put a writ of Habeus Corpus before a Judge.

      On receipt of this writ the jailor would be required to personally produce the named person before the Royal Courts of Justice to explain by which law he is being held, and hereof in no way should the jailor fail to comply, at his own peril.

      As in, that person's own personal peril. None of this, "He's being held by the orginisation and nobody is responsible" rubbish. The named person personally ensures that he is produced, or else.

      Incidentally, he's been detained under a writ of Habeas corpus ad deliberandum et recipiendum. (Ie; extradition)

  15. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    It's time to stop the charades

    Ship the dude off to America to face trial.

    1. Will Godfrey Silver badge
      Unhappy

      Re: It's time to stop the charades

      {sniff} {sniff} {gag}

      Strong smell of anonymous trollshit round here today

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: It's time to stop the charades

        As with Gary some folks around here have a difficult time dealing with reality. Those who can't abide by the laws of society end up in prisons.

  16. Alan Brown Silver badge

    In times gone past...

    ... such incidents on the Internet resulted in a lecture for the miscreant and a severe arsekicking for the admins whose security was so lax that McKinnon could waltz in like that.

    Even the script kiddies who were using NASA's original mars rover controllers as a C&C centre for IRC attack bots were largely written off as kids having fun.

    McKinnon embarrassed someone with political connections and US ideas of justice are based upon retribution/revenge, not what the EU might call justice.

  17. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Leaving on the next plane from London...

    Gary should be leaving for a U.S. on the next plane from London. He has no defense and he has admitted his guilt so the theatrics are just wasted effort to escape accountability. Justice in this case is clearly being denied as McKinnon has yet to face his accusers in the U.S. Justice delayed is justice denied so it's time McKinnon man up and go to the U.S. for trial. If you can't do the time, then don't do the crime.

  18. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Vengeance is mine...

    ...sayeth the US.

    Again and again and again.

  19. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    As ye sow, so shall ye reap

    Gary should have used his time more wisely.

This topic is closed for new posts.

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