back to article Expert: BA doesn't need permission to google your face

British Airways (BA) may not need passengers' consent in order to identify them using images available on the internet, an expert has said. Data protection law specialist Danielle van der Merwe of Pinsent Masons (the law firm behind Out-Law.com), said that the company could argue that it is in its legitimate interests to …

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  1. Tom 7

    So now there are 400,000 images

    of pigs with my name attached.

    Oh hang on...

  2. Gordon 10

    Can see it now

    Ba staff: Mr Smith I presume, can I just ask you to drop your keks so I can check you have that birthmark I saw in your nudey prod pics online.

    1. Graham Marsden
      Facepalm

      Re: Can see it now

      ... and that's a charming tattoo you have, Mrs Smith.

      Oh, you don't have any tattoos... erm...

  3. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Mr Jones and Mrs Smith

    Welcome. On behalf of BA I'd like to wish you an enjoyable romantic break in Paris.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Mr Jones and Mrs Smith

      ... and my regards to your respective spouses back at home.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Facepalm

        Re: Re: Mr Jones and Mrs Smith

        Did you think we wouldn't get the implied message?

  4. Matthew Glubb
    Stop

    Image Author's Consent?

    Notwithstanding proposed orphaned works legislation, rather than the subject's consent, I would have thought that BA would be required to gain consent from the image rights holder before 'processing' (ie. copying into their database) the image.

  5. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    They must have amazing staff...

    For regular business travellers I can imagine staff getting to know faces and names and greet passengers accordingly. This article implies, however, that check-in staff will memorise faces and names of 300+ passengers for the first flight of the day and then do it all again 2 hours later for the next flight. And then again another 2 hours later.

    Wow, that's some expectation to have of staff. I assume BA will be paying them accordingly?

    1. Rampant Spaniel

      Re: They must have amazing staff...

      This is just aimed at first and business, nor sure if it stated that but previous articles did. A few staff do recognise routine travellers but you can tell its genuine (which makes all the difference) and its rarely more than a hello. These poor sods sometims see thousands of people a day, I really don't expect them to remember I can drink my own weight in cranapple juice and pinot gris. (not mixed!). If you fly domestic routes often you will get to know a few attendants and them you, into Europe less, internationally you'd have to fly very often.

    2. An0n C0w4rd

      Re: They must have amazing staff...

      This is purely for on-plane staff AFAIK, using the iPad that the cabin service director can be issued with. I don't expect this to extend to the check-in desk, mostly 'cos even in T5 business class customers are still expected to use self-service kiosks AFAIR. Only First have a dedicated check in zone without self-service kiosks.

    3. Hollerith 1

      Re: They must have amazing staff...

      I'm regularly greeted by name as I step aboard a BA flight. The staff at the door glance at my boarding pass, see my name, and use it. It's like magic!

      1. Rampant Spaniel

        Re: They must have amazing staff...

        Very true, but under the new blue sky thinking abortion what will happen is if i turn left at the door they will look at their ipleb, its camera will identify me as mr spaniel and they will go weak at the knees, gush on the carpet as demand to have my puppies like I am some kind of superstar.

        The thinking is that being 'recognised' will make people feel special. Because they cannot download everybodies pictures into their staffs brain what they will do is use technology to identify people and perform some kinda of pseudo recognition ceremony. For sure this will work with some folks, it's the complete lack of sincerity that irks me. Hunting around the internet for pictures is a little weird, couldn't they just have people in their 'know me' program just submit a picture? Thus avoiding the tin hat brigades ire, the cost of sleuthing pictures and also wouldn't piss the rest of us off who just want a comfortable, peaceful flight.

        1. David Barrett

          Re: They must have amazing staff...

          False.

          They stated in previous articles that there will be no electronic facial recognition it will all be down to the orange interface between the iPad and the customer (ie cabin crew)

          1. Rampant Spaniel

            Re: They must have amazing staff...

            Ah, my apologies. That still does not change the rest of it. They're making the poor buggers memorise 30-50 pictures and names per flight then. Just to make people who weren't loved enough by their parents feel a little more special.

  6. Ben Tasker

    I'm curious, how does the actual search sit though?

    Finding pictures of me on the net was never going to be an issue for BA as they're publicly available, so they always had that to fall back on as a defence.

    But, to search for me, they need to search for my name (obviously), in doing so they would be disclosing that I'm their customer (to Google of all people). I can't imagine they'd have that much accuracy just using a name, so they will presumably be refining with other criteria as well.

    Now not only will that information go to Google, but would be in the referrer string when any site holding a photo of me is accessed. So now, it's possible for two different entities to know a bit about me, including that I fly with BA.

    I can't think of a chilling effect of this, but it's still not particularly nice to think that a company would so happily chuck my details out for people to find. Searching for Ben Tasker on Google Image search returns about 263,000 results so they'd obviously have to refine a bit. Even adding the name of the town I live in would mean they are disclosing information that I don't necessarily want aired publicly.

    On the other hand, when you book you could just tell them not to!

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Simples!

      Just find all the pictures of yourself on the internet and watermark them:

      "Not for use in automated image gathering" or similar. If they take a copy of your image...

      3) Profit!

    2. Will's

      Thats easy, I set up BenTasker.com, fill it with pictures of you and your personal details. I become the number one site for stalking Ben Tasker, and now, every time you fly I get notified by BA.

    3. The BigYin

      @Ben Tasker

      Simple.

      1) iFad takes picture of your fizzog (no name required)

      2) Sends to muckle-huge 'cloud service'

      2.1) Takes some reference points of you face

      2.2) Reverse image search (a la TinEye), probably using paid-for Facebook, G+, Other images (meta-data/links) can be used to get your name)

      2.3) Finds you, returns name to iFad

      3) You are greeted as Ms. Happy-Cat!

      Of course, they could just look at your boarding pass/id (which they have to anyway) but that would be far, far too simple.

      Now here's the thing, such a system could be used for much more nefarious purposes. Are you dumb enough to be on FourSquare? Chronically stupid enough to let you home location leak? Then anyone with this (or a similar) app could take a sneaky pic and find out what house to rob. Sweet, innit?

      1. Ben Tasker

        Re: @Ben Tasker

        Some great ideas there, I'm obviously not feeling devious enough today!

        I wonder if they'd go as far as to tag images with where they were retrieved from (I suppose they might need to in case they do get a complaint).

        So you could, upload an image to imabackdoorman.com (not going to check if that's real!) and with a little bit of work (or good SEO on the sites part) ensure that not only do they get an image, they get a (perceived) insight into which hosting staff are most likely to be hit on!

        I would say you could do the same with suitably terrorist sounding domains to stop someone flying, but I suspect the TSA already check that for anyone flying to the states, and our lot probably do some searching too to some extent.

  7. Steve the Cynic
    Big Brother

    It won't be used to greet folks by name...

    Well, maybe, but only briefly if it is. If they try that, they will learn the lesson that American Express learned about 20 years ago. They installed CallerID checking stuff to match incoming phone calls against the phone numbers in their databases, and flashed that on the call centre staff's screens. The idea was that they could give a personalised greeting (Ring, ring, ... "Good morning Mr Cynic, how can I help you?") and have the client's files quickly available. They stopped doing it because it was freaking people out, not to mention if I use Mr Bloggs's phone to call, and the wrong file gets pulled up.

    No, it will be used to help security services quickly identify targeted people without having to bother everyone.

    And it wouldn't help anyone identify me. A search in any image search engine for my name will find pictures of an American drag racer and various others, but not of me.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: It won't be used to greet folks by name...

      I think the Chinese Takeaway my dad uses does this (that or they just recognise the number on the cli screen). Beforehand they used to recognise him by voice.

      Surprisingly he's not a fatty.

    2. Christoph

      Re: It won't be used to greet folks by name...

      Damn right. If some total stranger puts on a blatantly fake plastic smile and greets me by name, they'll get the same treatment as the religious nutters who bang on my door and do fake 'friendly' greetings to try to make me feel uncomfortable in telling them to $%^& OFF.

  8. The BigYin

    I see a new license

    Creative Commons - Blurb...

    # Non-Commercial - Blurb...

    # By-Attribution - Blurb...

    # ...

    # Not-For-Identification - This image (in whole, part or any derivative form) may not be used for the purpose of automatic identification without the written, signed and notarised consent of the copyright holder and all subjects contained herein. Such consents are only valid for a one-time use. All costs to be borne by the user of the identification system.

  9. MJI Silver badge

    No pictures on line of me

    By me yes, of me no.

    My wife set up a facebook account with my name to use for Farmville (sad) so that has had a picture of a cider glass, a picture of a video game character, but not me.

  10. Vladimir Plouzhnikov

    LOL

    Tried to find images of myself on Google. Complete fail. But this one came up which I quite liked: http://cs6039.userapi.com/u157728386/video/l_77fa78e4.jpg

    Good luck identifying me using that, though...

    1. The BigYin

      Re: LOL

      Tag that as NSFW you tit.

      1. Vladimir Plouzhnikov

        Re: LOL

        That's NSFW??? You work in a monastery?

        OK, my apologies - please note that the link in my post above is potentially NSFW.

      2. Tom 38
        Unhappy

        Re: LOL

        Now I want to click the link. At work.

        1. Khaptain Silver badge
          Devil

          Re: LOL

          Don't worry there is only a little flesh and none of it is interesting

          Sigh, The great challenge in life : clicking or not clicking on the NSFW stuff. I have my own office I dont care , lol

      3. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: LOL

        "Tag that as NSFW you tit."

        a) Did you not see it coming?

        b) Procrastinating at work? Browse at your own peril (and don't give us that "I'm on lunch break" bullshit). No wonder jobs go to India.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: LOL

      "http://cs6039.userapi.com/u157728386/video/l_77fa78e4.jpg"

      That your daughter? Can I have an introduction? Can I?

  11. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Plenty of pictures with my name

    None of them are actually me. I decided a long while ago to keep myself off the radar, so no account with Facebook or other social media, I keep all pictures of myself off the web, etc.

    1. Matt Bryant Silver badge
      Devil

      Re: Plenty of pictures with my name

      Ah, just think of the fun you're missing! If you have a distinctive and original name (and neither my real or nom de plume are, unfortunately), you could put loads of hilarious pics up on Fartbook or the like. If you were feeling mean you could even link them through to some hard-core pr0n sites so the person trying to Google you gets hit by the firewall police.

  12. Anonymous Coward
    Big Brother

    Pseudopolymath

    LIARS. BA LIARS.

  13. Rampant Spaniel

    That's fine

    because I don't need their permission to fly on another airline. I don't want flight attendants trying to flatter me with BS because their company tells them to. They have a tough job, they don't need to have to worry about pratting around trying to act like they know me because of how much I paid for my ticket.

    A few klm flights I flew would recognise me if I flew them frequently, but it was a genuine "hello $firstname " and not an attempt to make me love klm. I am sure some folks would like to be recognised and I make no judgement about them, thats fine, I just want to get on the plane, have a meal, some wine, maybe do a little work, maybe rest and get to my destination. I want to be treated with respect, not like a cash pinata by the company forcing their staff to fawn over me like I'm someone they should recognise. Turning your flight attendants into fluffers is a step backwards in customer service (and for your staff who have plenty of work to do already). Flying used to be fun. These days it's closer to a trauma.

  14. Magister
    Windows

    Enquiring minds need to know

    So will the BA staff on the plane turn their iPads off when the aircraft is taxiing and during take off and landing? Or will they just do what so many others seem to get away with by flipping the cover over and pretending it's off.

  15. JulianB
    FAIL

    Good luck with that

    Searching Google Images for my name (even using quotes to avoid hits on only my first or last name and including only those that show a person) gives well into double figures. Especially if you include the ones with several people in one picture. Is a member of staff expected to memorise all of those and associate them with my name just in case any are actually me? One is, as it happens. but were I not in a particular voluntary role, that wouldn't be published.

  16. Purlieu

    Won't somebody think of the

    So BA will be googling pics of 10 yr old girls then, since girls of that age do actually turn up to fly on their planes

  17. Sceptic Tank Silver badge
    Facepalm

    This could backfire

    For a while I went through life being called "Mister Duh" by complete strangers.

    What had happened was that my idiotic bank got my surname wrong on my credit card wrong. When pronounced it sounded like "Duh!". Then a local supermarket chain decided it would sound grand it their staff could call you by your name if you paid by credit card. I.e. "How are you, Mister Bond" or "Thank you, Professor Moriarty" would sound better than "Bags??". So when I got to the checkout, they would go: "How are you, Mr. Duh?".

    We were not amused.

  18. Colin Miller
    FAIL

    Why don't they scan your passport photo, and (for the cabin crew) take a note of your seat-number?

    That way, they know that they can positively identify Jo Bloggs when she comes up to them.

  19. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    On the Internet

    I am a dog

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Pint

      Re: On the Internet

      And you're probably in your 40s.

  20. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Not a problem for me

    I'm never gonna be rich enough to fly First Class, or BA, any time soon :-\

  21. Andrew Moore

    Sure the response should be...

    ...for us (the passengers) to create a database of BA flight staff and some form of logic to determine which routes they service. Or use face recog so a sneaky pic of them as you board the flight will render all their details. I see boarding going something like this:

    Stewardess: Good morning Mr Moore, how are you today.

    Me: Fine Stephanie. Did you have a good time in the Ayia Napa? Well done on all those topless photo's by the way.

  22. auburnman
    Stop

    Queue a new method of harassment

    Watch out for your online persona being poisoned. Fly to the US often? Better hope no-one with a bit of photshop-fu has uploaded a photo tagged "Me and my best mate Osama, LOL"

    1. Ian 55

      Re: Queue a new method of harassment

      Or big up your own treatment by having pics with your best mates Willie, Keith and Sir Martin...

  23. fLaMePrOoF

    By reason of prejudice...

    According to BA's own justification for the service it could be in breach of the DPA due to the prejudicial way in which they propose to use it...

    "The Google Images search app helps our customer service team to recognise high profile travellers such as captains of industry who would be using our First class facilities enabling us to give a more personalised service"

    The act states that this would be:

    "unwarranted in any particular case by reason of prejudice to the rights and freedoms or legitimate interests of the data subject"

  24. Wize

    But why bother?

    Its BA, not Easy Jet so cabin crew know who you are from your seat anyway.

    They say they are using it to recognise passengers who have experienced delays on previous flights. At what point are they trying to recognise them? Probably as they check in where they are presenting ID and a booking reference, details that are more accurate at recognising a person.

    Lads, its time to grow that porn star moustache. Think of the NSFW hits they will get searching your image.

  25. cyborg
    Stop

    Formality

    I have a basic problem with people I don't know treating me as if they do know me.

  26. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Hmm...

    At the time of writing: 36 comments, all by people who turn right, non by people who turn left.

    If I paid the five grand to turn left for my trip to the states, I'd appreciate the staff doing a little homework. BA cabin staff are, in my experience, far more skilled than those of many other airlines and are not the sort of people who are going to make recognising you from a photo on the internet "creepy" in some way.

    1. Rampant Spaniel

      Re: Hmm...

      Not at all, I've flown in first and business plenty of times. What homework would you appreciate? Them getting your identity from a facial recognition program instead of from on your ticket? If you want a fluffer then hire one. I'd rather just have unobtrusive service and no insincerity.

      If you would appreciate it then thats fine, what the rest of us (mostly) are saying is it's either creepy or they would prefer it be an opt in system. Not all of us need to be 'recognised' by somebody who most likely hasn't ever seen us before to make us feel like we got our moneys worth. I pay for space and the chance to rest, there are some nice perks along with it but making some poor sod gush over me because I want to feel important is not on my list, nor is it on everyones.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Hmm...

      I fly very regularly (and quite often in First or Business due to my airline status, not due to tightwad bosses) and I think this is a stupid idea.

      Perhaps BA could fix the basic service aspect of their business before this kind of B/S? I gave up flying with them years ago after being ripped off three years in a row by them asking me to pay full price for a flight after I missed a connection to theirs. Having all their phone staff in India who have no concept of how the airline business works (except the part of ripping off customers) doesn't help.

    3. John A Blackley

      Re: Hmm...

      I don't understand. The second you put your bum in a seat, the cabin crew know who you are. So all of this jiggery-pokery just so they can say your name ten seconds before said bum hits said seat?

      Like many others here, I'd prefer it if BA could focus a little more on courtesy and efficiency among their cabin crew and drop this effort to kiss bums before they hit seats.

    4. Winkypop Silver badge
      Thumb Up

      Re: Hmm...

      I've turned left many a time getting on a plane.

      Mind, I was boarding via the rear stairs.....

  27. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Use Existing Technology, for god's sake

    They have the name of every passenger, along with passport details etc etc etc. I don't see how having an image is going to help them in delivering any service that they cannot already deliver with the information they have.

    BA are not exactly rolling in profits: why are they wasting money on this?

  28. John A Blackley

    Missed it

    I'm afraid I missed something in the article.

    I believe the images are those 'available on the internet' (and, therefore, public information) so how does the DPA come into it on the grounds of 'personal data'?

  29. Graham Bartlett

    Of course it's BA, so the correct answer is

    "I ain't gettin' on no plane, fool!"

  30. DrXym

    Kind of useless

    If a business / 1st class traveller desperately wants his / her ego stroked why not stick a webcam on the checkin desk and offer the person a personalized loyalty card with their picture on it. This can be used for greeting at the gate and other "perks". It's not hard to implement, is far more certain from a privacy standpoint and is more reliable than googling for a pic when very few people have such a unique name.

  31. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Perfect for Google Glass

    That's a perfect application for Google Glass, where the flight attendants see your photo and name in the Glass as you approach the plane. Of course the reverse would also be true, where passenger's Glass would have the flight crew photos id's (and customer reviews) available to know what to expect. Passengers could even backup their poor reviews with actual video of the event!

  32. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Privacy?

    Good points were made by many others above regarding the insincerity and, IMO, creepiness, of forcing staff to treat people with a familiarity they do not have.

    Aside from that, an excellent comment was also made on the first page as regards copyright status of those pictures.

    But lastly, I'm not too sure whether there would or not be data protection issues with this (let's not forget this may fall under more than one jurisdiction, depending on how this is implemented--and not all data protection laws in Europe are as toothless as the DPA). What I wonder however is how this sits with privacy laws. I had to become reasonably familiar with various bits of data protection legislation as part of my job and business activities, however I am wholly ignorant when it comes to privacy laws--I think this would be an interesting angle to cover.

    In any case, BA and all those other companies that do the same kind of bullshit should stop making both their staff and their customer's lives more miserable with this rude nonsense.

  33. Oddb0d

    I'm not sure that pointing the finger primarily at BA is warranted as they've probably been sold this idea by Google, a company who only last year told Time.com

    “In fact, we are NOT ‘introducing a mobile application’ (as the CNN piece claims) and as we’ve said for over a year, we would NOT add face recognition to any app like Goggles unless there was a strong privacy model in place. A number of items ‘reported’ in the story, such as a potential app connecting phone numbers, email addresses and other information with a person’s face, are purely speculative and are inventions of the reporter."

    Source: http://techland.time.com/2011/03/31/googles-facial-recognition-app-take-my-photo-get-my-contact-info/

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