back to article Glider pilot 'swallowed camera memory' say plunge tragedy cops

A hang-gliding pilot who allegedly ate a memory card from a video camera has been charged with obstructing the course of justice by a Canadian court and has been held in custody until it re-emerges. William Jonathan Orders is accused of swallowing the card from a video camera mounted on his glider in an attempt to derail an …

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  1. This post has been deleted by its author

  2. Anonymous Coward
    Angel

    X-Rays

    Presumably it's an urban myth that SD cards are vunerable to x-ray radiation? Or the police might have to charge themselves with destroying evidence!

    1. Christoph

      Re: X-Rays

      Might be vulnerable to the kind of X-rays they scan baggage with, but I would hope that medical X-rays give a *lot* less exposure.

    2. TonyG

      Re: X-Rays

      Yes it's a myth. There's a theoretical potential that X-Rays could knock electrons out but the dosage you'd need for that would be far, far in excess of what's used these days.

  3. amanfromearth

    What a fool

    both for the negligent accident and also for his subsequent actions.

    I expect he will only get a suspended sentence.

    1. Lee Dowling Silver badge

      Re: What a fool

      I imagine that the sentence on the "obstruction of justice" charges would actually be higher than anything he was facing anyway, and likely proportional to the underlying charge that he was getting in the way of anyway.

      All this idiot has done is double his punishment, guilty or not. And if the evidence is unrecoverable, there's a very good chance he'll be convicted of the original offence anyway on the basis of trying to conceal the evidence in the first place. Nothing says "I'm guilty" more than eating the evidence when asked for it.

      Without that stupid action, he'd probably only have had a negligence case against him, most of which would be covered by insurance. Probably wouldn't have had jail time at all. But now?

      One word.

      Pillock.

    2. Stoneshop
      Coat

      A suspended sentence?

      That won't fly.

      1. phear46

        Re: A suspended sentence?

        Smooth, real smooth. Some poor soul has fallen 300 meters to an unfortunate end and all you can do is come up with some cheap pun.

        Congratulations.

    3. Bjorg

      Re: What a fool

      Paraglider Alex Ramont, who helped search for Godinez-Avila's body, says she watched Orders set up the trip and that he missed a crucial safety check.

      "I was there pretty much for the entire time that they showed up until the time they launched and I did not see a hang check performed," she said.

      This is from the linked article. Granted, Alex isn't at fault here, but I can't help wonder why she didn't say anything *before* someone died. This isn't the sort of mistake you're supposed to let someone learn from. Looks like negligence all-around.

      1. Wombling_Free

        Re: What a fool

        "Hey dude, you gonna do a hang-check or what?" - Is it professional negligence to NOT speak out on safety issues, even ones that aren't yours? It IS in the building industry in Australia...

        Need a lawyer icon for that...

      2. Graham Bartlett

        Re: What a fool

        In fairness, she could well have been getting her own gear together and not particularly watching them set up. So it might only have been afterwards that she realised she'd not seen them hang-check.

        The two main people responsible though are the instructor and the "nose-man". Hang-gliders are tricky (although not impossible) to set up for launch on your own, and stray gusts can catch you unawares when you're getting ready, so usually you have someone holding the nose-wires of the glider to keep it under control. That person is responsible for checking that you've done your checks, including holding the glider while you hang-check, and visually scanning the glider for obvious rigging faults. If this guy didn't have someone helping him launch, that's an important safety element missing - especially if he's doing this for a living.

  4. Mike Hunt 1
    Facepalm

    Any volunteers?

    Anybody want to volunteer to examine that memory card? Don't all rush at once.

    Given that once "nature has taken it course" they "capture" the memory card, who wants to, if you excuse the pun, stick into their card reader to get the data from it?

    If this was CSI, they would have an iPod app that could forensically image the card remotely whilst still in the blokes bowels. But this is the real world - and it's going to be a shit job !!

  5. Neil Barnes Silver badge

    As a paraglider pilot...

    that's the one test you always do - leg straps for paragliders, hang checks for hangies. For an instructor to forget is unthinkable; for an instructor (in the UK, only instructors are allowed to take passengers tandem) to forget to check his passenger is unforgivable.

    It's happened before and it'll no doubt happen again, but it doesn't make it any less of a tragedy for the victim's family.

    1. h4rm0ny

      Re: As a paraglider pilot...

      Hey. I've always wanted to try hang-gliding (is that the same as paragliding? They seem closely related). How do you go about getting into that?

      1. Neil Charles

        Re: As a paraglider pilot...

        As another paraglider pilot...

        It's a horrible irony that we see spikes in interest for the sport when it's in the news for all the wrong reasons. People discover the joy of free flight through an accident.

        Paragliding's the one with wings that look like big parachutes. Hang gliding is the one with triangular 'delta' shaped wings. Most people paraglide now because although hangies have much higher performance, they're a comparative pain in the a**e to carry up a hill and assemble.

        If you're in the UK, start here!

        http://www.bhpa.co.uk/bhpa/learn-to-fly/

        1. ScottAS2
          Joke

          Re: As a paraglider pilot...

          Is being called Neil mandatory?

          1. Muckminded
            Joke

            Re: As a paraglider pilot...

            And, do you need strong arms?

            1. Sir Runcible Spoon

              Re: As a paraglider pilot...

              I learned to hang-glide a few years back. I had three close calls including a winch line break at 200 feet with -5mph ground speed.

              Once I qualified I gave it up and took up something a bit less dangerous - motorbikes.

              1. Neil Charles

                Re: As a paraglider pilot...

                Best guess on risk (stats on free flying accidents aren't very good) is that motorbikes and paragliders have fairly similar accident rates. Depends a lot on your approach to either though - flying in rough conditions and acrobatics are a choice, just like dodgy overtakes and trying for knee down on country roads. I fly and ride and reckon I've had a similar (small) number of close calls doing both.

                Being called Neil isn't mandatory, but it does mean you thermal better.

  6. Andus McCoatover
    Windows

    Beggars belief....

    When, in the brief time I did some hang-gliding (before "progressing" to microlights), your fellow pilots would check, check, and check again that everything was OK with your rig.

    I cannot understand, still, after reading some of these links, how the pilot didn't descend immediately when he'd realised the poor lass was hanging onto him for dear life (which, tragically, she lost), or even grab her with one arm - you only need one to fly a hang-glider. Would've taken less than 10 seconds to the ground from 300 metres.

    1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

      Re: Beggars belief....

      It was off a mountain top surrounded by 200ft tall pine trees - like most of Vancouver - there was nowhere to land other than the official landing spot.

    2. Jean-Luc
      Holmes

      Re: Beggars belief....

      >Would've taken less than 10 seconds to the ground from 300 metres.

      h = 1/2 g T squared.

      Which roughly means that, yes, you are correct, it only took her about 8 seconds to land from that height.

      Presumably you had a more sedate rate of descent in mind.

      1. Andus McCoatover
        Windows

        Re: Beggars belief....

        My bad. I read 'feet', even though I duplicated 'metres'. As to 200 foot pine trees, wouldn't that be a silly place to fly from? When learning flying microlights, the instructor would randomly tell me to shut down the motor, so he could be sure I always had an 'escape route' in mind.

  7. K
    Joke

    What a load of ...

    ... sh*t!

  8. TeeCee Gold badge
    Joke

    "....we are in the waiting stages right now."

    An "Intelligent design" would have included the little hole that you shove a paperclip into for the emergency eject function........

    1. Steven Roper

      Re: "....we are in the waiting stages right now."

      There is one. But instead of a paperclip, you just need a pair of rubber gloves.

      >snap< >snap< >ooOOOOEERR!!<

  9. Purlieu

    7 hours

    Since it took 7 hours to find a body, it might have taken a lot longer to find an SD card dropped from a height

    1. Oliver Mayes

      Re: 7 hours

      Perhaps the camera wasn't within his reach while he was airborne. Might have needed to land and get into the camera to get the card out.

  10. Simple Si
    Meh

    Data Recover PR

    Could be good PR for the SD card manufacturer if the card comes out in working order. Failing that, good PR for the data recovery company that manages to salvage the data. Certainly not a project I would want to go near!

  11. ItsNotMe
    Unhappy

    Damn.........

    .........fruitlessly trying find a way to work "stool pigeon" into this conversation. Just can't find the appropriate way.

    1. This post has been deleted by its author

  12. Mondo the Magnificent
    Coat

    And for the record.....

    ...you are in the shit, sir!

  13. AJames

    Hang gliders are not subject to government regulation in Canada, so the operator was not required to meet any standards or conform to any regulations, and probably didn't have any insurance. While individuals who enjoy the sport are probably not keen to invite unwelcome government regulation, it would seem to be a serious oversight to allow the operation of a passenger-carrying business without some minimal regulation.

    1. asdf
      FAIL

      shhh don't tell that to the American right

      Any regulation is a dirty word. We don't need it. Long live true Laissez-faire markets like say drug dealing or most markets in Somalia. Oh wait.

      1. chas49
        FAIL

        Re: shhh don't tell that to the American right

        what American? Vancouver is in Canada!

        1. ThatHairyCanadian
          Megaphone

          Re: shhh don't tell that to the American right

          Thank you for your astute observation, there. Although there IS a Vancouver in Washington State, just South of us here in the Great White North (on the wet side). We prefer to see ourselves as a bit more enlightened and literate, if not always so safety conscious it would seem.

        2. asdf

          Re: shhh don't tell that to the American right

          As mentioned in Canada even in somewhat conservative Alberta (these things are all relative) the people are not stupid/naive enough to believe all regulation are evil job killers to be eliminated. Mississippi on the other hand.

  14. Helena Handcart

    "...and is the owner-operator of Vancouver Hang Gliding." Not for much longer I suspect.

    1. I. Aproveofitspendingonspecificprojects
      Meh

      "Orders has 16 years' experience as a glider, and was the owner-operator of Vancouver Hang Gliding"

      FIFY.

  15. AndrueC Silver badge
    Joke

    Alimentary my dear Watson.

    1. Blofeld's Cat
      Holmes

      Er...

      You may have overlooked this icon and it's mouseover text.

      1. Blofeld's Cat
        Headmaster

        Dammit...

        For it's read its

        I really should read this stuff before I submit it.

      2. AndrueC Silver badge
        Headmaster

        Re: Er...

        Nah, that was too easy.

        Now if you'd pointed out that Sherlock never actually says that famous phrase anywhere in the stories I might have upvoted you :D

  16. Psymon

    it's certainly a testament to the robustness of SD memory card technology.

    I'm struggling to imagine another data storage medium that could withstand a tour of the human digestive tract.

    Mind, I'm now strugglin to imagine another medium that COULD take a tour of the digestive tract.

    I cant get the mental image of a man trying to swallow a VHS tape out of my head, now.

    1. Flocke Kroes Silver badge

      How about a 1" hard disk?

      http://depositphotos.com/2653062/stock-photo-3.5-and-1-inch-Hard-disks.html

  17. CNS
    Holmes

    Does anyone know how the cops retrieve evidence that has yet to pass? Pooh in a jar, maybe. Just askin'....

    1. Crazy Operations Guy

      Bed pan and a colander.

    2. Stoneshop

      How?

      I've seen a setup used for collecting the contents of drug-smugglers bowels, in use at an airport; it's a toilet that simply has the waste pipe go into a holding basin in the next room, where the excrement can be probed at leisure by the investigating bodies. It's not out of the question that facilities like these are available to police departments as well.

      (where's the noxious gases icon?)

    3. Stratman

      "Does anyone know how the cops retrieve evidence that has yet to pass? Pooh in a jar, maybe. Just askin'..."

      One cup

  18. This post has been deleted by its author

  19. Studley

    Police have taken him to Snappy Snaps

    and we are waiting to hear what develops.

  20. Mike Banahan
    Joke

    Great opportunity for a pun

    When retrieved, the card was found to be interred (think about it).

  21. Captain DaFt
    Unhappy

    Now I can't get that old oneliner out of my head:

    "Boy swallows role of film, doctors are waiting to see what develops."

    Thanks a lot!

  22. This post has been deleted by its author

  23. Anonymous Coward
    FAIL

    Hard to understand why,,,,

    ,,,,he didn't crunch up the SD card with his molars before swallowing it. If the silicon is damaged enough it will be unrecoverable.

    Of course, just the act of attempting to destroy evidence is enough to cause him a lot of trouble, but he clearly wasn't thinking at all if he didn't ensure that the card was unusable too.

  24. PT

    I wonder...

    Maybe what the SD card reveals could bring worse consequences than those of obstruction and destroying evidence.

    Maybe she was threatening to tell his wife.

    1. ThatHairyCanadian
      Megaphone

      Re: I wonder...

      Obstruction is the charge of last resort around here. Destruction of evidence is a form of Obstruction. It carries an indeterminate sentence often decided by the Judge alone. Negligent Homicide carries a sentence of 1-5yrs. Basic Negligence Causing Death carries a sentence of 6m-1yr with an absolute maximum of 5yrs.

      Obstruction convictions are quite rare, ask any police officer what happened when they were charged with it (a common occurence).

  25. ravenviz Silver badge
    Flame

    Gruesome

    What a truly horrible way to go. Especially when she had placed her trust in an expert. :(

  26. Anonymous Coward
    Holmes

    Holy shitty evidence, Batman!!

    And my condolences to the poor woman's friends and family...

  27. Andrew Jones 2

    I'm probably being a bit dense - but what exactly are they expecting to find on the SD card? Is it video or still images?

    1. Trevor Marron

      Probably a load of shit. What they find when they READ the card may be a different matter.

  28. Anonymous Coward
    Coat

    well...

    ...He should just consider himself lucky he didn't need to get rid of a reel-to-reel tape backup.

  29. DanceMan

    Groupon angle

    The flight was a gift from her boyfriend and was part of a Groupon offer.

    Tragic all around.

  30. Wombling_Free
    FAIL

    Has no-one here...

    ...heard of gloves?

    ...heard of distilled water (for the washing of things)?

    ...got cats / dogs / llamas / children that need cleaning up after?

    It's not like the police have to lick the card clean, you know!

    1. ThatHairyCanadian

      Re: Has no-one here...

      Stomach acids will surely corrode the contacts to the point of non-functionality. Where do the facilities exist to re-establish effective channels to communicate with the underlying memory strata?

      Not to mention the propensity for objects of similar size and shape to resist easy passage. Will it even be possible to find an ethical proctologist or surgeon who would be willing to violate the pilots rights and extract the device under legally sanctioned oversight?

      The gross factor of this is just a childish pusuit.

  31. david 12 Silver badge

    Classic Pilot mistake

    Not the first time a pilot has missed some item from a check list. It is one of the known weaknesses of checklists that if the sequence is broken, items are likely to get missed.

    It normally gets widely reported only when it causes the death of the pilot, which points to the fact that punishment of this pilot will have no effect on safety: If the possibility of their own death doesn't solve the checklist problem, jail time isn't going to do it either.

    Pilots are also trained to think about what they are doing, to try to catch those occasions when the checklist sequence is broken, but the reason checklists are used is because thinking is even more prone to error.

    In another (non-fatal) incident, the passenger was strapped in, but the instructor was not. As the instructor fell to the ground (broken arm), the passenger was launched, unaccompanied, out over the ocean. A brief, but memorable, flight for him. He was rescued when he splashed down.

  32. PeterM42
    Facepalm

    When it comes to trial........

    ................The court will have to go through the motions..

  33. Boggy B
    Flame

    So there was an 'experienced glider' nearby...

    If he says that Orders didn't perform a crucial safety check, why didn't he bring it up PRIOR to takeoff? And if he did, why did the woman decide NOT to hang-glide with someone who can't be sure she's strapped in?

    Since he has admitted to knowing this, would he be liable for anything in this case?

    1. david wilson

      Re: So there was an 'experienced glider' nearby...

      >>"why didn't he bring it up PRIOR to takeoff?"

      Well, a person could be looking at someone preparing to fly while partly occupied themselves, note that they haven't yet done a particular check but assume they're leaving it for later, and then realise that they're setting off without having done it when it's too late to safely stop them.

      Especially if watching an instructor as a passive observer rather than someone actually involved in checking gear out, it might be easy for someone to have in their mind the idea that an instructor is very likely to do things right, and even if there was an expected time in a vaguely-standard checking sequence for a particular check to be done, the observer may just be interested if the instructor fails to do something when expected, consciously or subconsciously assuming that they must be leaving it until later for some reason, or maybe that they somehow did it out-of-sequence already, while the observer was distracted.

  34. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    One would imagine

    As another poster mentioned, one would imagine that that memory stick might have something on it that would lead to a charge other than negligence (which he would be convicted of just on the witness report).

    1. david wilson

      Re: One would imagine

      >>"As another poster mentioned, one would imagine that that memory stick might have something on it that would lead to a charge other than negligence (which he would be convicted of just on the witness report)."

      If he's responsible for doing the checking, I'm not sure witnesses would be needed to demonstrate negligence.

      I suppose he had some time to think during the flight, and it's possible he realised he was screwed either way but ate the card for less selfish reasons, like trying to make sure it didn't end up as a clip for people to laugh at on YouTube.

  35. moonface
    Coat

    Ahh.....the old Preconsumption of innocence defense.

  36. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    What goes in must come out

    He's going to prison.

  37. ThatHairyCanadian
    Unhappy

    Goose, Goose, Goose, DUCK!

    Anyone ever tried simple experiments in Radio-crystalography? I used my Veterinarian Father's old (1946) x-ray rig to perform my own aluminum crystal difraction proofing experiment when I was around 10yrs old (aluminium for you pommies [I am one too BTW]). To say that an exploratory alimentary x-ray chromatograph won't have ANY effect on the data stored in an SD card belittles the established facts of just how the data is actually stored within the bowels of such arcane devices.

    Of far more important relationship to this tragic story is whether the local RCMP (Real Criminals Masquerading as Police) violated the basic tenets of criminal law in this country (yet again) by illegally using physical intimidation in aid of compelling an accused individual to divulge evidence through the forced involuntary submission to an electronically invasive procedure. Whatever evidence might possibly reside within his voluminous storage device will most certainly be expelled from the court as rapidly as monocotyledonous herbaceous plants pass through an Anatidea Anserinae Anserini given an enema.

    Otherwise, this was a complete and avoidable TRAGEDY and my sincerest sorrowful regrets go towards the woman's boyfriend and her family. The pain felt from losing one's lover through the act of giving them the present of their lives is unfathomable. No matter what the safety device - checking it twice is better than attending a funeral once.

  38. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    This story is a real PITA...

    ..for the perp.

  39. pewpie
    Joke

    PS

    He's had his chips.

    (Can't believe no-one saw that)

  40. pewpie
    FAIL

    Way to swallow the evidence..

    Why didn't he just sign a confession??

    The man's idiocy knows no bounds.

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