back to article Capita poises axe over 1,000 staff - jobs headed to India

Capita IT Services (CITS) has told 1,000 staff they are at risk of redundancy and plans to offshore roles to India. The cuts were announced to employees this morning on the same day that the Department for Education confirmed that CITS was among 18 companies selected for an £575m IT framework. Company insiders told The Reg …

COMMENTS

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  1. James 51
    Childcatcher

    Well it's not like you can blame them. They only made hundreds of millions of pounds last year and those managers aren't going to get their bonus' unfrozen without getting their knifes a little dirty.

    1. Chika

      Blame them? No.

      "Have you seen the bigger piggies in their starched white shirts..."

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      this

      Is a disease that needs to be eradicated.

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      i love the

      bit which says UK staff will have to train them,

      A bit like asking the condemned man to weave his own noose or the prisoner in front of a firing squad to load the rifles.

      It is utterly shameful, it deprives us of jobs, it deprives us of skills, it deprives the country of tax.

      Disgusting and should be condemned.

    4. LarsG

      any

      Company offshoring jobs from this country should not be eligible to quote for large government contracts.

      1. Mark 65

        Re: any

        Absolutely right. It makes no sense to give them tax-payer funds which they then feed to a sweatshop in India whilst the tax-payer then has to pay for the people that just lost their jobs.

        At this moment in time Cameron or Clegg needs to get a spine and state categorically that any company touting for UK Govt. contracts (in the UK rather than ancillary overseas functions) will have to employ eligible workers within the UK else no deal.

    5. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      communication irritation

      It will cause more irritation with the difficulties of communication.

      "yes I live near Liverpool..."

      "is that in England sir..."

      "Yes it is..."

      "near London?"

      at this point I lost it, the difficulty was not that he couldn't speak English, he could, it was is heavy accent and the fact that I had real difficulty tuning into in. Also, he struggled when I spoke quickly.

      I politely, yes true, said I would call back.

      Please tell me how this will enhance the customer experience?

      1. Annihilator
        Coat

        Re: communication irritation

        "yes I live near Liverpool..."

        To be satirically fair, the call centre could have been anywhere then and had the same troubles...

  2. Gordon 10
    Thumb Up

    In other words

    Liked the Analysts summary for one.

    Translation

    Crapita's only skill is in cutting their own headcount, and they can be expected to screw even that up imminently.

    1. dotdavid
      Thumb Up

      Re: In other words

      Indeed. You do get the impression that they made a list on a whiteboard in the boardroom that said "Ways to make more profits"...

      1. Move staff to India

      2. Do fixed price contracts better.

      3. Allocate resources better.

      After looking at the list the only one they could see themselves succeeding with was the first one. They unanimously voted for it, clinked their corporate champagne glasses together, helped themselves to the executive nibbles and then drove their Ferraris off into the sunset.

  3. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    They really think this will help?

    I've been on the receiving end of this for 3/4 years now and it is disgraceful what management think they are doing when they move to this model. Productivity sucks, costs sore, quality is a forgotten word ....

    Honestly, if you are using Capita now and think they are bad, just wait.

    I really, really don't want to live in London now with the fire service call centres being outsourced to them.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      "costs sore, quality is a forgotten word"

      The amazing quality you can clearly get from Londoners must be hard to give up....

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: They really think this will help?

      "Soar" FFS.

      Even comments coming out of Crapita are shit.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: They really think this will help?

        Anyone who's ever been involved in offshore work can tell you that quality goes out of the window.

        All the stuff I've been involved in has basically been onshore people going to all the meetings, understanding it all and then telling the offshore guys exactly what to do... then it get retranslated through 3 or 4 'coordinators' and the final product doesn't work, but even if it did, it bears no resemblence to what you asked for.

        You then get the onshore developers, who still have a sense of pride, going all our to fix the worst of it so that something can be delivered... after all this you get told "what a success offshoring is, we must do more"

        The only answer is for the onshore people to have enough courage to take no responsibility, let the projects fail, let the crap that actually gets produced go out. After the business falls through the floor, somebody high up might finally be allowed to be told that offshoring all your staff doesn't actually work!

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: They really think this will help?

          I've seen an Indian company not only do such a bad job the work had to be dumped, but they also held passwords to randsom to ensure payment! in the end the CEO paid just to get rid of the mess..

          I would be very concerned if any gov call centers went overseas, my experience with Indian call centers is dire....

          But so far I've only ever had a good experience with government helplines and the emergency services when they have been needed, I dread to think what would happen if they were off shored....

      2. dotdavid
        Meh

        Re: They really think this will help?

        ""Soar" FFS."

        Actually I thought the original 'sore' was better, personally.

  4. Beelzeebub
    Flame

    As I have said before...

    Tata to our English jobs.

  5. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    What's always confused me about outsourcing...

    is how companies get away with it? If my company told me they were replacing me tomorrow with someone in the same city who would do my job for less, the local ambulance chasers would be circling before I left the building. How does the fact that the replacement staff are not in the UK change the equation? (This isn't a rant, I'm genuinely hoping someone can enlighten me on the distinction.)

    AC as outsourcing is a sensitive topic round here ATM.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: What's always confused me about outsourcing...

      Puzzles me too. If your role is made redundant and then they take someone on in that role, game on.

      It must be to do with the definition of roles. Your role is redundant and a whole load of new roles are necessary under a new model of operation or some such.

      Weasel words anyway.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      They probably give you the option to...

      ...keep your job and relocate to India.

      I was made redundant once on the basis that the team relocated to another part of the UK. I could have relocated, but took the cash instead and got a new local job before the notice period was even up. I laughed all the way to the bank...

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: What's always confused me about outsourcing...

      You really don't have the legal redress you think you do, if they pay you the notice period and redundancy then you're gone.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: What's always confused me about outsourcing...

        Not if they hire someone else for your job, and they have to investigate possible ways to use you in other roles rather than hire a new employee... I was made redundant once...

    4. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: What's always confused me about outsourcing...

      "how companies get away with it?"

      Because they don't employ the guy in India.

    5. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      This is how it is working for us....

      Slip of finger meant this went to the wrong place.

      A deal has been signed with an outsourcing supplier to take our IT Support services. About (120 highly skilled, dedicated and very likeable people). To sign this deal has cost our Supplier Company £25m it is also costing the Outsourcing Company £25m.

      Our/We will transfer across to Outsourcing Company. Where they will work happily for the rest of their lives in what is effectively the same role but getting our wages from a different company.

      In reality what will happen is TUPE (The Transfer of Undertakings (Protection of Employment) Regulations) will kick in. This protects certain work terms/conditions of the employee but only lasts for 2 years. (The ConDem Government would like to remove these so we can have a more dynamic work force)

      The TUPE provision allows the Outsourcer to transfer the knowledge holder across from the Supplier Company. This has the effect that the Outsourcer gains all the knowledge from the Supplier Company. It works for the Supplier Company because those employee’s disappear from their books. No pension, NI or other benefits. Once the outsourcing company has all the information/knowledge they require. Then they bin the knowledge holder and move the role to Indian where they pay significantly less than they do in this country.

      The Supplier Company has no liability because the employee willingly left the Supplier Company to take up a new job. The Outsourcer has no loyalty to the new employee and will bin them as soon as they have the knowledge they need. Often they do it long before they do which is why you always hear horror stories about out sourcing.

      Of course 'We' can refuse to leave out company but we are lucky the IT Director never go his way, but many TUPE'd people may not be offered this.

      I think but we have to accept whatever role we are offered and we have been warned that our pensions will not be protected. If we chose to leave the company. I predict the take up will be 0%

      1. Andus McCoatover
        Windows

        Re: This is how it is working for us....

        I suspect that's the sole reason Nokia 'outsourced' all Symbian employees to Accenture.

        If Nokia'd made them redundant, massive payouts. Ship 'em to Accenture, with a lot of mealy-mouthed words as to job-security, then let Accenture kick 'em out after a few months. No doubt, Nokia would slide a back-hander to Accenture for the compensation, having saved a few million euro's.

        Someone tell me it's not true??

        Devious millionaire bastards.

        1. Andus McCoatover
          Windows

          Oh, I was right...

          http://www.yle.fi/uutiset/news/2012/04/hundreds_of_nokias_outsourced_symbian_developers_leaving_accenture_3380429.html

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: This is how it is working for us....

        Hmm.

        "willingly left the Supplier Company" - not so sure about that. Its more a case of "feck off, we don't want you, if you refuse to go then you are effectively resigning". Either way the fat cats get their payout, the brain-drain continues, and we (the people actually doing the work and for the most part who actually give a crap about what we're doing) get shafted.

        Its just a reflection on the fecked up state this country is in when all the fat cats care about is saving money rather than value for money (there is a distinct difference between the two).

    6. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: What's always confused me about outsourcing...

      According to Patricia Spewitt in the letter she Xeroxed to me 9 years ago Onshoring & offshoring is just competition. I should suck it up & vote labour. That was New Lie, that cost them tens of thousands of UK tax I and others didn't have to pay any more.

      Unfortunately 'Old Unfaithful' aren't interested in UK tax receipts going out the window either. At least foreign companies can afford to buy what is left of our industry and offshore it.

      Agree we should insist all UK government work is done onshore by vetted UK nationals due to 'security reasons'.

  6. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    So My Cameron, how is sending many of our jobs and contracts abroad and firing countless people here going to fix the economy exactly?

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Where did you get the strange notion that politicians like Cameron and Osborne give a flying care about the economy - this is about making fatter bonuses for his corporate buddies.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Stop

        Wait A Second

        Wasn't it the Lefties who let the financial sector screw up public finances and the economy ? Tony Blair and Gordon brown are the major sources of this mess. it seems to me.

        What you are doing is like the Republican knee-jerks blaming the sad economy on Obama, when he inherited it from Bush.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        "Where did you get the strange notion that politicians like Cameron and Osborne give a flying care about the economy - this is about making fatter bonuses for his corporate buddies."

        Where did you get the strange notion that I don't agree with you.

  7. nematoad
    Alert

    Wrong name

    CITS? SHITS is more like it.

    1. Mark 65

      Re: Wrong name

      I can re-use the C, T and S to better effect.

  8. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    But from the inside...

    There are certain places which actually need more people, yet Crapita are thinking of getting rid of more people.

    Likewise, Some of us have already handed are resignation in. See ya, Crapita.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Go

      Yeah, Germany

      There is a real shortage of good developers and sysadmins here. Just apply by email and I am sure you will be contacted immediately.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Go

        Re: Yeah, Germany

        www.arbeitsagentur.de and many, many private sites.

  9. Sir Barry

    I wouldn't hand contracts to firms that are going to take the work overseas, how is that helping Britain?

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      How is that helping Britain?

      It doesn't matter, there are no clauses in government tenders for helping the economy or keeping jobs British. Quite the opposite actually, in my opinion.

  10. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Its not about the quality....

    Its about money. Its always about money. Doesn't matter that the quality will be crap as long as there is still a perceived profit (and even if it turns out to be a loss, the person resposible would have had his golden cockshake and left long before the shit hits the fan).

    In a similar situation right now - but I am damned if I am going to teach someone else how to do my job. After all, when it all falls over in a heap and the losses start mounting up (which they will), it won't be my money going down the drain....

  11. M7S
    Stop

    the business had "much to fix".

    Just about every project it has ever worked on is the impression I get from the papers.

  12. ad2apps
    Thumb Down

    its always about the money

    Well it will be goodbye to their customer service , software quality and reputation. Also

    " UK staff will be asked to help train those workers in India." why would you do this !????

    I'd like to see government contracts going to Uk companies with the proviso that use UK workers. Data protection law should be tightened to stop foreign nationals having access to UK data and that would go some way to stop this kind of thing from happening .

    1. Sooty

      Re: its always about the money

      " UK staff will be asked to help train those workers in India."

      Yeah, we had that where I work, a load of people made redundant were asked to train their Indian replacements before they left... You'd be amazed at the high quality of the training, and the immense amount of useful information that was handed over :)

      1. ad2apps
        Thumb Down

        Re: its always about the money

        Do I detect some sarcasm in there? ! Seriously companies are short sighted when it comes to this kind of thing, it might improve the profits in the short term but in the long soon as someone realises the real cost of employing these idiots - such as poor customer service , poor software quality and when they need to hire someone to fix it - there won't be anyone! .

  13. mark phoenix

    Madness

    Assuming an conservative average salary of £30K

    The Government has just taken £30 million pounds out of the UK economy. Unemployment benefits could easily add an additional £10 million

    I doubt these costs were taken into account when looking at the contracts.

  14. DoesAnyoneSpeakSense?

    Wrong name pt2

    CITS? Gits more like.

    It's annoying. I have no problems paying a little extra to get my veggies from a local provider. I'll pay a resonable price in a bricks and mortar shop to buy DVDs/ books rather than use online. I wouldn't mind higher taxes to keep jobs onshore. Of course I'd prefer that they use the money they have wisely, but that'd never happen...

  15. This post has been deleted by its author

  16. Anonymous Coward 101
    Pirate

    Thing that gets me...

    ...is how many people here are simultaneously whining about jobs being moved to India and Capita being crap at doing stuff. I can vouch for Capita being crap after getting the run around by TV licensing. I have a question which some may feel is excessively cynical, but I believe is pertinent: maybe the UK staff were totally shite?

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Thing that gets me...

      The staff I have worked with are certainly not "shite". In fact we are very under resourced and under recognised by Capita.

      In fact - the india outsourcing currently in place is "shite" and has been "shite" for ages. It'll take a "shite" amount of time to train the India guys to a standard of which these apparently "shite" employees at Crapita are doing their incredible hard effort and tasked work at.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Thing that gets me...

        >The staff I have worked with are certainly not "shite".

        How come everything they produce is shit then?

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Thing that gets me...

          How come everything they produce is shit then?

          The phrase 'management expertise' springs to mind...

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Thing that gets me...

          Good point. Thats why they're buying more companies. They've found something thats actually decent.

          And now to make most of them redundant. Bastards.

        3. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Thing that gets me...

          Dead easy, you under resource, give your call centre staff call targets of 2 minutes per call, and tie their performance to it. You employ aggressive managers that have a cash bonus attached to the performance of the staff, who then give their staff no leeway outside their call scripts, and know nothing about the business they are managing.

          I worked for CITS, the worst mistake of my life, but my peers and their team members were good, they only failed because the managers stopped them being professional. To do well in Capita you need to leave professionalism behind and just feel the size of your bonus. I can see them loosing a lot of very good senior technical and project management staff now they won't have their bonus as a consolation.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Thing that gets me...

        I can relate to that.

        Its not a question of ALL people being shite and therefore deploying shite - its more a case of a select few being in key places expected to do mountains of quality work with not enough resources and usually no backup from management. Compare this with the outsourcing norm which is loads of shite people who know practically nothing trying to deploy shite they don't even begin to understand.

        Seriously, I had a network pleb sent over to work on a major network project who didn't even know what telnet was <slap head>.

        Or the testers that complained they couldn't log onto a machine - wasted 3 days before raising it to us as a problem, only for us to tell them they had typed in the wrong IP address (which was plainly stated in the mail).

        And that is just this week!

  17. Blofeld's Cat
    FAIL

    Skills transfer...

    "It is understood affected UK staff will be asked to help train those workers in India."

    I worked for a company that was bought by a large American Corporation. We were all given notice, but were required to hand over all the ongoing development work to our US counterparts during the notice period.

    We had some lovely conversations - once they sorted out the time difference...

    USA: " We can't get the development system to run. I know it's Vista not XP, but we've got all the patches."

    UK: <pause> "Those are Linux tools."

    USA: "We don't do Linux. We're a Windows shop."

    UK: "Think of it as a learning opportunity "

    ... and ...

    USA: "What's the <mumble> module written in? It doesn't compile."

    UK: "Well perl but it's a script not a module."

    USA: "Oh ok. <pause> Is that C++ or Visual Basic?"

    Two weeks later we all left. The phones were still ringing as we turned out the lights.

  18. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Interviewed for Capita recently, decided we wouldn't be good bedfellows (they agreed on this), but TBH, they seem much the same as every other company that's hoovered me up over the past few years. If you've got the sort of job that can be sent abroad and it's cheaper to do so, then off your job will go. I don't like it, but that's the way it is right now.

    1. Colin Millar

      Yep - you get what you pay for. With everyone seeing short term cost (aka price) as the only business imperative it's no wonder supply companies get the message and act accordingly. If people didn't demand cheap shit then cheap shit wouldn't exist - it's not like anyone would ever believe the sales blurb and think that they were getting anything other than a price within their budget line.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      "Interviewed for Capita recently..."

      Why? Why on earth would anyone want to work for these morons?

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: "Why on earth would anyone want to work for these morons?"

        The last TUPE was to Fujitsu.

  19. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Working for Capita

    is like swimming in shit.

  20. IT Hack
    Pint

    Quality Training

    So the soon to be booted Capita staff will be training the Indian staff.

    Any quailty of training metrics in place? Would not surprise me if disgruntled Capita staff train..err...wrong.

    Pint - makes handling the the pain easier.

    1. Admiral Grace Hopper

      Re: Quality Training

      Or, if the outsourcing is being done by asset strippers who've just taken you over, make sure that the training goes well, get in the good books of the asset strippers by indicating where the more rancid corpses are buried and use that "in" to plant some well-placed knives in some well-deserving backs and justify your continuing employment until you choose to leave. If you're reading this Joe, I salute you for your ninja skills in this respect.

      1. IT Hack
        Pint

        Re: Quality Training

        If I had a cap I would doff it. Instead I will quaff a pint.

  21. Ironclad
    Flame

    It's all broken from the top down

    When senior execs can make enough money in 3-5 years to live comfortably without ever having to work again then short term-ism is inevitable.

    Until we get independent analysis and stringent long term performance clauses in executive pay it will continue unabated.

    Payoffs and bonuses should be linked to companies performance 5-10 years after the exec's leave the organisation. So the company's fortunes nosedive during your tenure and after you leave you get nothing.

  22. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Deeply Depressed

    There’s this story... There’s the DWP story. the TFL story... and the nuclear power story...

    I was going to write to my MP – but I don’t suppose he’s going to do anything about it.

    There’s the obvious loss of jobs.. But I think there’s a moral imperative too.

    The working time directive is trying to ensure that in Europe, not too many hours are spent at work, that work life balance is kept in check, even in the UK.

    I believe we’re effectively exporting a form of slavery to the offshore company... as these companies in say India or China are not going to have to worry about how many hours a worker works, or paying them overtime (cf Foxxcon).

    UK Government will not only loose the tax £££ from this, as previous posters have mentioned, they will be paying up for dole money, re-training money... re-training to do what exact jobs?

    AP for obvious reasons.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Deeply Depressed

      I can save you the trouble of writing to your MP and send you a copy of the letter that Chris Grayling wrote in reply to my query about the then impending offshoring of DWP IT jobs where he promised that UK jobs supporting government business would never ever be sent abroad as that would be A Bad Thing for the economy, data security and All Sorts Of Other Things.

  23. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Service companies outsourcing is invisible

    ...at first.

    If a British brand moves production to the east, you get denouncements in the popular press and possibly a consumer boycott which might hurt the company.

    A servicescompany moves the service it provides for another company or local authority from UK and although it might get press coverage, the end user doesnt realise until he gets a confused conversation with Peter-from-Pune over a Driving licence application.

  24. N2

    I suggest

    That anyone using Crapita, use some one else.

    Unless we all start insisting on companies that source from within, Im talking all types of industry here, not just some one in Delhi telling you to re-boot your computer then jobs will continue to be lost elsewhere.

  25. Anonymous Coward
    Go

    Apply With ARM

    They currently have 229 openings. You might need to move inside Europe, though:

    http://careers.peopleclick.com/careerscp/client_arm/external/search.do

    This company does tangible work, as opposed to some "service economy" crap. Or worse.

  26. Anonymous Coward
    Go

    Rolls Royce Openings

    http://www.rollsroyce.com/careers/

  27. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Went through this at my place this time last year although the scope was nowhere near as big. We also had the situation of dozens of staff from the outsourcer coming over and "shadowing" our resolver groups.

    Of the original 66% predicted to go, only 33% went in the end because the outsourcers in Indian couldn't do the job. Of those 33% several have come back permanently or as contractors so it hardly seemed worth it.

    My heart goes out to those at risk - it's a horrible situation.

  28. Anonymous Coward
    Go

    GSK

    My last post, as I don't want to do spamming, just to cheer you folks up a bit.

    http://www.gsk.com/careers/

  29. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Makes a change from their usual methods

    I worked for Crapita for a while. Half the team I was in left the same way under "compromise agreements", where they don't want to go through real redundancy procedures so they concoct some excuse around performance then give you a smallish payoff in return for not fighting them through an industrial tribunal.

    Best thing that happened to me TBH - 12 hour high pressure days then back to a hotel for the night was affecting my health really badly. Was OK for a couple of months, but it just went on & on with no end in sight.....

  30. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Newspeak Solutions

    "...achieving headcount efficiencies on a function or location basis in the UK..."

    Translation: "...making UK workers redundant..."

    Seriously. They need to re-introduce the death penalty for people who mangle language in such a way that they make a kick in the bollox sound like a favour.

    1. Silverburn
      Mushroom

      Re: Newspeak Solutions

      +1. Nothing makes you feel more valued as a human being than being referred to as 'headcount'.

  31. Andus McCoatover
    Windows

    Mwahahahah!

    http://www.capita.co.uk/careers/pages/careers.aspx

    Deputy Head of Corporate Advisory, Registrars

    "Capita obviously regards its employees as its key asset."

    You gotta see it to believe it....

  32. Will Godfrey Silver badge
    Unhappy

    If I was being made redundant and told to train my outsourced replacement I'd refuse, in writing, stating that I wasn't prepared to risk being accused of sabotage when the inevitable screw up occurred due to comprehension/language 'errors'.

    Finally I'd advise them that if they didn't find this acceptable I would be quite happy for the matter to be referred to an industrial tribunal.

  33. Alan Brown Silver badge

    Outsourcing some institutions....

    ... might be a good idea.

    The DVLA couldn't get much worse than it already is - and the time between outsourcing and declaring outsourcing a disaster/pulling back inhouse might be usefully spent getting rid of the the jobsworths that made it that way.

    It's not as if this kind of exercise hasn't been done in the past....

  34. despairing citizen
    Stop

    Basic issues

    Are the outsourced staff expected to be using UK citizen data, if so India is not in the EU, hence I would have some concerns about data protection.

    If the staff in india are being paid a fraction of the UK staff, what are the internal audit controls going to be with regards to securing code and data from fraud and other crime? (can you think of any UK employees willing to go to prison for £100k, where as in india, disapear, start a new life, very rich by local standards(*))

    If CITS is doing UK Government work, how secure is it for HMG to have it's underlying IT in the hands of another nation?

    Given the local extremist/terrorist supporters, activists, and members in the local area, is this really the best location for UK government IT, how much use will the indian government be at assisting in security vetting?(**)

    (*) - It took the indian police years to catch a murderer from southampton who escaped there, and disappeared into the 1bn sub-contienant, how much effort will the put into a fraud case?

    (**) - low level government systems may not seem like much of a prize to a terrorist org, until you figure out that inserting your people into the DWP databases gives them clean histories for operating in the UK and Europe. Same with DVLA, and many others.

  35. THMONSTER
    Flame

    Been through that particular mill

    I personally have been through this particular mill when working for a well known credit referencing agency.

    280 people were whisked away on coaches one morning to be told that only 40 of them would be required and that we were to train up our replacements.

    By the end of the time for training I was still amazed that a job that took 1 guy in our department a couple of hours to resolve took the guys in India 10 days or more to do.

    You might pay them 10 times less but when they take 10 times the amount of time to do the work then it does not even out.

    Losses snowball as others cannot do their jobs and customers are faced with ridiculous delays.

    The balance sheet does not look so great to the beancounters that propose this sort of a move after a while but ho hum - off to the next company to wreak their particular brand of 'business expertise'.

    Bastards the lot of them.

  36. TheWeddingPhotographer

    90 days consultation

    90 days consultation always means - "in 90 days what we have decided will happen" It's a loophole, needs plugging. There is no consultation about it.

    I have been through this Mill at Capita - their strategy also is to push the decision least 2 management tiers outside of the local business, but make the local managers enforce the bad news - In this way, the person making the decisions sees nor deals with any of the pain, but instead can have a jolly good back slapping session at a job well done.

    Meanwhile, it ought to be government policy not to award contracts to businesses that feel it is great "value" to outsource work out of the country. Whilst project A might be on budget, the fall out costs even more money, stopping project B and C

    1. Why Not?

      Re: 90 days consultation

      Its 90 days for the good catches to find another job. Many of them may not be singled out for redundancy. The ones who have been if they time it right they get tax free redundancy as well.

      That leaves the dross, unlucky or the ones feeling very secure behind.

      You also get a wind down (3 months of everyone doing nothing) so its a frightening cost to the company.

      In my experience the decisions are always made above the staff, and then they follow the procedure to avoid getting sued, at least the consultation period gives staff time to find another job and management a reason not to enter into it lightly.

      CUTS would be a better acronym, silent N is optional.

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