back to article Startup slices solar panels using ion gun

After keeping a low profile for some years, a startup called Twin Creeks Technologies has gone public with an interesting approach to making solar panels: it uses an ion gun to slice ultra-thin leaves from a wafer. Its approach is to fire hydrogen ions at a substrate, a technique the company says produces very thin wafers …

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  1. Nick Kew

    And?

    Surely the materials cost is very marginal, and 'cheaper to produce' depends more on a state-of-the-art efficient factory?

    Are they suggesting that thinness/flexibility will bring solar panels to altogether new applications? If so, great, but if not they're in a marketplace already suffering overcapacity and fierce competition.

    1. LaeMing

      I guess there is also storage and shipping costs to account for. Probably not huge, but the difference only has to be competitive.

    2. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

      Re: And?

      Wafers are normally sawn individually from a crystal boule and then polished.

      They aren't cheap, and if you want more of them you have to slice the wafer again finer.

      This system gives you a lot of cheap smooth wafers from a single initial one.

      Thin flexible wafers have a few other advantages - you can glue them to flexy plastic to make roof coverings rather than having to ix rigid glass-like sheets in current thick panels.

      ,

    3. Voland's right hand Silver badge
      Devil

      Re: And?

      These are flexible so they can go at surfaces where we cannot stick legacy ones easily - for example on the curved parts of car body panels or 1:1 replacements for existing roof tiles.

      The material cost in solar panels is not marginal by the way. It makes up for a considerable part of the panel cost.

  2. Graham Marsden
    Trollface

    Is this ion gun...

    ... to be found in low orbit...?

  3. Tim Worstal

    Hmm, when Si was $400 a kg that might have been interesting. At today's price of $35 to $40 (around production cost) I'm not entirely convinced.

    Also, wafers are getting down to 80 microns with standard equipment already these days.....

    1. Tim Parker

      @Tim Worstal

      "Hmm, when Si was $400 a kg that might have been interesting. At today's price of $35 to $40 (around production cost) I'm not entirely convinced."

      While I partly agree, the issue here is not just the saving in wafer slice cost (which is still a very useful reduction) - it is also the substrate mounting thickness and cost (metal), handling yield (theoretically should be better vs thinner conventionally sawn wafers) and the knock potential packaging savings for the finished active area (the PV module, not active area as in CMOS implant).

      "Also, wafers are getting down to 80 microns with standard equipment already these days....."

      Yes but the waste ratio goes up (the saw thickness isn't going to scale in the same as the effective wafer thickness can), as does the wafer breakage, as the sawn wafer thickness goes down - so even at 80um + (lets be very generous) 120um for sawn wafer versus 30-60um + 20um for hydrogen implant shearing there is the potential for saving.

      Are these guys bigging up their claims to help with inward investment ?... of course. Is it interesting tech with potential real-world consequences, not least of which is cost reduction ?... I think so - i'm sure time will tell, but I really do hope they get some cash so they can try and prove it one way or the other.

  4. Muckminded

    Nip/Stuck

    Thinner slices of yestertech isn't really a high-margin, forward-looking plan for a nimble upstarting startup.

  5. alunharford
    Facepalm

    "In other worse, Hyperion “slices” the fabricated wafer more thinly than current processing techniques, by firing the protons through the surface of the wafer to a precise depth, lifting off the thin slices from the surface."

    What is this, the guardian?

    1. Voland's right hand Silver badge
      Joke

      @alunharford

      No, the Shrike.

      With Martin Silenus in attendance to look after it and Aenea to control it and ensure it behaves itself.

      Yes I know, not exactly the kind of Ion gun you have been looking for.

      1. Jonathon Green
        Alien

        Re: @alunharford

        Are you trying to tell us that this could turn out to be a Big Mistake?

        I for one welcome our new TechnoCore overlords...

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Probably not, the Reg has a spellchecker.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Thumb Up

        @ Mike Richards

        But no sub-editor who is supposed to check articles for any missed errors. ;-)

        Bless The Reg, they do try.

    3. Loyal Commenter Silver badge

      To be fair

      I had to read that five or six times to spot the error.

  6. peter 45
    Childcatcher

    half the cost

    BTW 'half the cost' is not the same as 'half the price'.

    This puff piece is for investors not consumers

  7. tybalt

    Like Smart Cut

    Sounds a lot like the smart cut process that is currently used by SOItech to make thin SOI wafers.

    The ion implant results in stress at the depth the ions end up in the lattice after implantation. The wafer can then be split along the stressed zone to give a thin slice. In the smart cut process you stick wafer A, with a stressed buried slice, to wafer B, which is coated with oxide. Pull, and a slice of wafer A ends up on the (now buried) oxide of wafer B. Silicon on Insultor (SOI).

    http://electronicdesign.com/article/embedded/smart-cut-process-technique-mdash-an-overview3400

  8. Jon Double Nice
    Coat

    Does it work on mints?

    You know, wafer thin and all that.

  9. James Micallef Silver badge
    Headmaster

    spelling??

    "In other worse" = In other words?

  10. Chris Miller

    Hydrogen ions?

    Why not 'protons'?

    1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

      Re: Hydrogen ions?

      Because if you crossed the proton beams there would be trouble - didn't you see Ghostbusters?

    2. Loyal Commenter Silver badge
      Boffin

      Re: Hydrogen ions?

      Because the terms are interchangeable? Admittedly calling them protons is less wordy, but liable to cause confusion to those who aren't aware that nicking the electron from a neutral hydrogen atom leaves you with just a proton.

      Maybe the hydrogen ions are acting in a more classical particle-like manner than the wave-like manner that the use of the term proton would imply, or the fact that they are charged particles is relevant, so referring to them as ions rather than protons stresses that fact?

      1. Chris Miller

        Re: Hydrogen ions?

        Almost interchangeable. You can create H- ions with 2 electrons and I guess if you just use 'regular' H you'd get a few percent of Deuterium ions mixed in.

  11. squigbobble
    Happy

    Hydrogen embrittlement...

    ...the nightmare of steam pipe engineers and people using acids to etch things other than aluminium. I'm genuinely impressed that someone's found a controllable way of using it.

  12. John Smith 19 Gold badge
    Thumb Up

    "Kerf loss" is one of the semiconductor industries little secrets.

    Spend *shed-loads* of cash on hardware, chemicals and energy to make a raw material with PPB impurity levels.

    Throw away 1/3 of it in processing.

    BTW while much like the Soitec process SOI is viewed as a *premium* price wafer, whereas these have to be base price (is there a "PV" grade price?) or cheaper with low scrap and low cost. That makes this engineering *tricky*.

    Note that by starting with monocrystal PV cell material they get to *leverage* any current or future Silicon work, which is still the bulk semiconductor by a *very* wide margin.

    However for *really* big, low cost you'd need to skip *any* conventional slicing.

    I picture a system under permanent high vacuum with something like a revolver cylinder inside it. The number of boules corresponding to the number of steps in the slicing process.

    boules in -> slices out. No waste.

    With modern boules being 300mm in diameter (going to 320mm soon) and 10m long it would be a beast of a machine to make but you would get back most of the kerf loss.

    Of course this *all* depends on them working out how to *handle* these thin "floppy" wafers to process them into cells.

    Thumbs up on trying to make a niche, high precision process into a bulk mass produced one. I hope they success

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