back to article Apple fanbois forced to go on the pull by Motorola patent

Apple has switched off push notifications in Germany, responding to Motorola Mobility's successful patent lawsuit, so iCloud users in Germany will have to learn to pull together. The outage also affects MobileMe, but anyone using ActiveSync or other push mechanisms will be fine as the companies behind those aren't being sued …

COMMENTS

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  1. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Hasn't the telephone system been a push notification system since... 1876?The network notifies the receiver by ringing their bell?

    Or maybe Telex (1930) if you want to go for text messages.

    Stupid.

    1. Bob Vistakin
      FAIL

      Real Karma is when bullies get bullied back, but harder

      Didn't moses come down from the mountain holding tablets with round corners? Never mind real innovation such as wireless push, THATS what I call stupid and oh dear, the bully is getting back 10x more than what they started, what a shame.

    2. Matt Bryant Silver badge
      Boffin

      RE: Hasn't the telephone system been a push notification system since... 1876?

      Not sure if you really just don't understand push messaging technology vs pull, but seeing as I've had to explain the difference to more than one person this week I suppose it's best to go with the "he really is that thick" option.

      With phone handsets, with a push messaging system the service provider sends a message to each handset (usually over IP) and there is no data charge to the handset user. A push message only gets sent when there is an actual message (e.g., a Facebook wall update) ready to go. With a pull technology, besides the hassle for each end user of setting up the pull relationship, each handset polls the service provider at a regular period, and there is an associated data charge. If the polling is set to a high occurence (as was normal with early Winphones checking back to Exchange servers), then the data chunk of your tariff gets eaten away surprisingly quickly. Regardless of whether there is actually a message ready to be collected, your phone still has to go poll to check, hence increasing network traffic as well.

      Blackberry was such a massive success for business users because it was a push technology when most phone handsets had polling solutions. This case (temporarily) returns German iBone users to the tech equivalent of the stoneage.

      1. Joe 3
        Meh

        Re: RE: Hasn't the telephone system been a push notification system since... 1876?

        @ Matt Bryant:

        What does the original poster say that made you think they don't understand 'push' vs 'pull'? The poster is saying that a telephone sits there idly, as does a telex machine, until the network contacts it to make it ring or receive a message. Or are you suggesting that a standard old phone is constantly polling the exchange to see if there's a call coming through?

        Admittedly it's a very different technology, but I think the comment was meant to be at least partly in jest.

        1. Matt Bryant Silver badge
          FAIL

          Re: Re: RE: Hasn't the telephone system been a push notification system since... 1876?

          "....Or are you suggesting that a standard old phone is constantly polling the exchange...." Let's see, what is that funny cabley thing coming out of the back of a "desktop" phone? Oh, it's a cable! Permeanently linking the handset to the exchange, which means the exchange alwasy has a one-to-one relationship with the phone and sends an electronic signal whenever it has an incoming call for the phone to answer. If you bothered to read you might know there are some nice standards about that little signal that gets sent down the line from the exchange.

          ".....Admittedly it's a very different technology...." Yes, isn't it. Bit like a poster with a clue compared to you.

          1. Lord Elpuss Silver badge
            FAIL

            @ Matt Bryant

            Matt, grow up and stop already with the playground insults. Nothing the original posters had said justifies your immature and insulting responses; "Really is that thick"? "Bothered to read"? "Like a poster with a clue compared to you"?

            Dude, seriously - it's gonna be hell when you go through puberty.

            1. This post has been deleted by its author

            2. Matt Bryant Silver badge
              FAIL

              Re: @ Matt Bryant

              "....Nothing the original posters had said justifies your immature and insulting responses..." Oh puh-lease, will all you fanbois get a life! The minute one of you gets a slapping you all get shirty. The comparrison made by the original AC was patently stupid, and then he ends it by implying that anyone that thought it was a setback for Apple users was "stupid", hence the slapdown. What, do they remove all objectivity at the till in Apple stores?

          2. Silence W

            Re: Re: Re: RE: Hasn't the telephone system been a push notification system since... 1876?

            Matt, I assume you're trying to give the impression of being a hugely intelligent/well-educated expert with no more patience left for an objectively stupid person, but to be honest you're just coming over as petulant.

            Is the snarky tone really necessary, given that no-one's said anything even remotely insulting, or even that stupid?

            1. Matt Bryant Silver badge
              Facepalm

              Re: Re: Re: Re: RE: Hasn't the telephone system been a push notification system since... 1876?

              ".....I assume you're trying to give the impression..." Well, the first part of assume is ass, and that's exactly the impression you give. I don't really care what impression I give you lot of fanbois, impressing a load of fashion victims doesn't appear on my list of things to accomplish. I just have a hard time dealling with your blinkered ignorance. Trying to compare the cabled phone system to push mobile technologies, in the hope of implying this had no impact on Apple users, was simply stupid.

      2. Robert Forsyth

        Re: RE: Hasn't the telephone system been a push notification system since... 1876?

        For your push to work you would need a constant data connection like the bit of wire coming out of the POTS. Do people with ordinary telephones have to keep contacting the exchange to see if someone is ringing them? I think not.

        The old fashioned phone sits there, and a +/- 50V signal from the exchange makes the phones bell ring, the user picks up the phone activating the current loop.

  2. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    An eye for an eye until the whole world is blind.

    ...and in the end we'll all have gimped, incompatible, and unnecessarily expensive devices.

    <s> Hooray for the patent system! </s>

    1. Eponymous Cowherd
      Unhappy

      Re: An eye for an eye until the whole world is blind.

      Yes, but do you just sit there after having one eye poked out and wait for the aggressor to blind you fully, or do you fight back?

      While I agree that it will all end in tears, Apple has left its competitors with little choice but to join in with the corporate eye gouging war.

      1. Silverburn
        Coat

        Re: Re: An eye for an eye until the whole world is blind.

        A thought occurs...can you still cry with both eyes gouged out?

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Boffin

          can you still cry with both eyes gouged out?

          "...can you still cry with both eyes gouged out?"

          Yes, as the lachrymal glands are in the eyelids and eye socket, not the eyeball.

          1. Sweaty Hambeast

            Re: can you still cry with both eyes gouged out?

            "Yes, "

            Unless you're Klingon.

            (Yes, I know and understand the reference but it's Friday and it's beer o'clock and I'm unemployed - give a man a break!)

            1. Greg J Preece

              Re: Re: can you still cry with both eyes gouged out?

              Don't worry, I was five seconds away from making the same joke.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Re: An eye for an eye until the whole world is blind.

        Wasn't intending for my post to come across as pro-Apple... FWIW I completely agree with your take on the matter. Apple started this fight by suing world + dog, so it's good to see the bully get slapped back.

        1. mccp
          Trollface

          Re: Re: Re: An eye for an eye until the whole world is blind.

          "Apple started this fight by suing world + dog"

          I'm sorry, but I own the patent on this particular troll - please stop using it at once.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Re: Re: Re: An eye for an eye until the whole world is blind.

            Regarding mccp's post - have some of the forums users lost their sense of humour? I really despair at the effort some people make to downvote people's humour or even legitimate comments. Get a sense of balance you vote-tards.

          2. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            You said please

            Patent trolls /never/ say please. The like words like Cease! and Desist!

            Thank you.

            1. Inachu
              Pint

              Re: You said please

              I am sure with eyes gouged out at a certain angle the wind would make thos sockets whistle in the wind!

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Re: Re: An eye for an eye until the whole world is blind.

          No. Hate on Apple all you want, but lets keep to the facts; Nokia started this. http://www.businessinsider.com/nokia-sues-apple-over-iphone-patent-infringement-2009-10

    2. Mikel
      Windows

      Re: An eye for an eye until the whole world is blind.

      Having found their mugging victim distressingly well armed, maybe Apple can now approach the interaction with mutual respect and decency.

      Or, you know, what you said.

  3. Dan 55 Silver badge

    How to get a patent on something

    1. Look for obvious functionality that you do with a desktop computer.

    2. Change form factor from desktop to fondleslap. Patent it.

    3. Change form factor to mobile phone. Patent it.

    4. Change connection type from LAN to WLAN. Repeat steps 2 and 3.

    5. Watch and wait.

    6. Sue the competition for an obscene amount of money or make the competition remove features from their products.

    7. Customers eventually tire of buying bling. There's a recession on and who gives a damn when the product specification changes monthly.

    1. Suburban Inmate
      Thumb Up

      Agreed!

      Is there any function too simple to patent?

      How 'bout somebody patent a fucking power switch?

      1. Charles 9

        Re: Agreed!

        They did. Trouble is, THAT one already expired, IIRC, so it's fair game.

        Things that are TOO obvious are either unpatentable or were patented so long ago that they no longer apply.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Agreed!

        Actually - if you look at one of the other Apple patents reported on el-reg recently, this is for a keyboard mechanism that looks suspiciously like an oldfashioned switch (of the type used for telegraphs in old western movies). Granted it is unique in that it allows the part that comes in contact with the finger to be made from different materials such as polished meteorite etc. So it is definitely worth the patent

        So in answer to your question - a switch is not too simple - sadly.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: How to get a patent on something

      Actually - if you have posted this on a mobile phone or a fondleslab then you are breaking my patents for:

      1. Using Upvote and Downvote on a mobile/fondleslab.

      2. Using a forum on a mobile/fondleslab.

      I assume the cheque is in the post. Otherwise expect the lawyers...

      P.S. I have applied these patents to LTE networks for future extortion.

      --------> Slide to Whinge -------> (Patent pending)

  4. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Apple just needs to bend over a take it for 1/2 hour from Motorola! Let them shaft each other and sort it out.

    You are making yourselves look STUPID! (not that that is difficult for Apple, just look at the 'leapfrog' inspired iOS)

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      I see you moved on from your usual golden showers-related comments to anal sex.

      It was getting repetitive.

  5. Shagbag

    brown love.

  6. Hayden Clark Silver badge
    WTF?

    IMAP IDLE

    ..is that really patented by Motorola?

    1. Rich 2 Silver badge
      Happy

      Re: IMAP IDLE

      I was just thinking the same thing - IMAP IDLE is as old as the hills and is, of course, essentially what we're talking about, though "push messaging" (probably in some "cloud" somewhere) seems to be the all-new "web 2.0" buzz word for it.

  7. Jules8791
    FAIL

    Starting to think maybe Apple should give up suing everyone, as all that happens is that they piss people off and they look through their patents and shaft them even harder.

    Wonder how much this is costing then?

    I know they have loads of cash to burn as they don't pay dividends to their shareholders but still only so much you can piss up the wall before there is a shareholder revolt.

    I vowed never to buy a Apple product while Mr Jobs was in charge as I think he didn't care about the customer just shifting product, don't think I will be changing my mind anytime soon with current management in place!

  8. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Weirdos

    You lot are weird.

    Where is the evidence that Apple started the sueing game? I think you need to ask your parents about how it was before you were born, say, two years ago.

    And why the spite against a successful company that makes good, attractive hardware and software that real people like, even enjoy?

    You could do better? Excellent. I await your products keenly. Otherwise, please go back to your kindergartens and play with each other there.

    1. ItsNotMe
      Happy

      Re: Weirdos

      My...my...my...aren't we the testy one today.

      It's Friday...have a long relaxing weekend away from the computer...then come back here Monday, and re-think what you have posted.

      It REALLY is OK to criticize Apple you know. Steve is dead now, and can not harm you any longer...unless he left "an app for that" before he checked out.

    2. Greg J Preece

      Re: Weirdos

      "And why the spite against a successful company that makes good, attractive hardware and software that real people like, even enjoy?"

      Or worship? I mean, who doesn't say a quick prayer or two to Lord Jobs in the morning, before work? It's just a personal belief, and I'm entitled to it. Who are you to say that Apple didn't invent the wheel? Were you there? Can you prove it, or is this just another "theory"?

      The ones to watch out for are the non-believers, these angry atheists. They'll distort history with lies, tell you that Apple are a litigious bunch of shitheads that gained a position through slick marketing and are now attempting to hold onto it with lawyers rather than innovation. I mean, we all know that Android is an evil communist plot. I've read the holy letters of Saint Steve, and it's right there in black and white. He said it, I believe it, that's an end of it.

      </creationist_parody> (For thickos.)

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Re: Weirdos

        Greg, you REALLY should've hit the "Post anonymously" checkbox before posting that. Remember all the furor over people posting stuff from Dianetics a few years back? Do you want to mysteriously disappear? Don't answer the door!

      2. Sureo
        Stop

        Re: Re: Weirdos

        "...attempting to hold onto it with lawyers rather than innovation..."

        How can they innovate when everything possible has been patented?

    3. Boris Winkle
      Trollface

      Re: Weirdos

      Oh How I laughed...

  9. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    1984

    ... we will soon require a license just to think, in case someone already had an idea that might occur to us ...

  10. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Really can't believe

    That ANY website that wants to be taken serious is still citing "Patent court lurker Florian Mueller"...

    It's well documented that he is on the Microsoft and Apple payroll against Android...

    http://paidcontent.org/article/419-is-patent-expertblogger-florian-mueller-getting-too-cozy-with-microsoft/

  11. Dazed and Confused

    @2 Weirdos

    I'm not sure how many years ago you left your kindergarten but Apple have been an extremely litigious company for a great many years. I seem to remember them being fairly open and friendly about the Apple II, but come the Apple III they wanted it all their own way.

    That's before we get into their history of suing companies with the word anywhere in their name even when they'd been in business for years longer than there has been a computer industry.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: @2 Weirdos

      Moto has been around a lot longer than Apple, and you might do well to do some research on Moto's pattern of actions in this area.

      just saying ...

  12. Greg J Preece

    I'm trying to summon up some sympathy for Apple, but every time I do I end up howling with laughter.

  13. DF118

    Giant douche or turd sandwich

    That is all

  14. Doug Glass
    Go

    So now it's called ...

    ... a circle pull?

  15. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    I recall the '1984' advert for the Apple Mac, and how it was supposed to liberate us all from 'dictatorships' (ie IBM).

    But what has Apple turned into if not a dictatorship.

    Arsewits.

  16. joerx
    Pirate

    Well, it wasn't Motorola who started this in the first place and it's about time that all the unreflected iCrowd finally catch some collateral damage. Hope some of them realize what a hell of a mess their iGods pulled off with their feud against anything that even remotely looks like an iPhone.

    When will we finally get to the point when manufacturers realize that their patent wars are just hurting themselves and the whole system first deadlocks itself and the collapses for the greater good of innovation?

    Only then, German courts can be busy dealing with real crime again and not be bothered with this quarreling kids nonsense.

  17. Alan Denman

    iPhone - free bumpers, now what about the free Flak Jacket?

    Smartphone customers are the bystanders now getting stung.

    Sadly it is what happens with search and destroy tactics.

  18. Kevin Johnston

    Oh dearie me

    Where is nanny McPhee when you need her

    Mind you, with the tantrum levels being displayed in courts these days maybe she heard the call and hit the snooze button

  19. mrfill
    Mushroom

    A history lesson for weirdos

    Many moons ago, before the Bling era, there was a mighty successful record company. It was called Apple and its logo was an apple cut in half. Year later a small computer company with totally original thinking decided to call itself Apple and have a logo of a half rainbow apple (with a bite taken). Apple sued Apple and in 1981 the evil pirate computer company had to pay a lot of money and promise not to enter the music business. They lied.

    5 years later, the pirates introduced sound recording and got sued again. They agreed that it would not package, sell or distribute physical music materials. They lied

    12 years later the pirates started iTunes - an entry into the music business (see 1981 above). Sued again but the pirates had enough money to get clever briefs and they survived.

    Fast forward another 4 years and the pirates finally resolve matters. They get to keep the name and the logo and license the use by the record company. Reputedly, this cost the pirates $500m.

    Apple - white as the driven slush

  20. MacGyver
    Flame

    So how long can you make money off a pager patent after all pagers are gone?

    A while it would seem.

    We are building towards a future where the next new model from Company A will be "now with brown", but because it now has brown color, the screen will have to be square as to not conflict with Company B's "brown+rectangle" patent. And there will only be a few huge companies, as no one without $98 billion in the bank could defend themselves in court against the minefield of patents. So all advancement and innovation will be precisely calculated by the exact difference between R&D and profit, not from people working to solve problems, but by solving just enough problems to maximize the total profit.

    Patent reform needs to be done today while we still can have "little guys in garages"!

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