back to article Canadians revolt over draconian internet privacy bill

Canadian politicians are scurrying for cover after a public outcry over a proposed bill that would force internet service providers to monitor users and hand over their details to the police without a warrant. The Protecting Children from Internet Predators Act, formerly called the Lawful Access Act, would require ISPs to …

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  1. Destroy All Monsters Silver badge
    Childcatcher

    "No legal guns allowed" OUT, "Big Brother loves the Children" IN?

    Profit from the gutted gun registration bill to impress politicians who are into control freakery behind a "protect the children" moral scare.

    It's all good and fits my inner libertarian.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      POLITICIANS....

      want power, information is power, access to information without safeguards is power,snooping on people is power, no accountability is power.

      If you disagree they attack you with spurious claim, YOU must be a racist, YOU must be a pedophile, YOU must be a criminal, YOU are....etc etc.

      They do that so you say nothing.

      Not anymore!

      1. Arctic fox
        Thumb Up

        Re: POLITICIANS....

        "If you disagree they attack you with spurious claim" Indeed, it is standard tactics amongst various types of low-lives (lawyers, politicians etc) but I have to say that this guy reached a new low.

        "......can either stand with us or with the child pornographers."

        My instinctive reaction was you noxious unscrupulous lying turd and I am pleased to see that quite a large number of Canadians reacted to his remarks in pretty much the same spirit.

        1. This post has been deleted by its author

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: POLITICIANS....

        "The state must declare the child to be the most precious treasure of the people." - Adolf Hitler

  2. Figgus

    If this is what passes for "conservative" elsewhere in the world, I can see why you guys hate them so much.

    Freaking idiot.

    1. Peter Murphy

      Toews sounds like a real piece of work, even for "conservatives".

      Check the Toews Twitter leak. Looks like he's been preaching about the sacrament of heterosexual marriage one day, cheating on his wife the next, and then fathering a baby with his mistress some time later. Even Rick Santorum hasn't gone that far as far as I know.

      This is the first time I've heard of the guy. First look at him and I thought it was the evil twin of Jack Layton, separated at birth. Also reminds me of Paul Newman out of "Road to Perdition".

      1. JustWondering

        Re: Toews sounds like a real piece of work, even for "conservatives".

        Jack Layton, misguided as he was, was a nice guy. Vic Toews is the guy that ran off with the babysitter and cut off his wife's support. This happened a couple of years ago and the local papers have ignored it, even during an election where Mr Toews was reelected in a very Conservative riding. Go figure.

      2. Jedit Silver badge
        Flame

        "Even Rick Santorum hasn't gone that far"

        No, but I'd say that Newt Gingrich has. He's been married three times, and cheated on I think it was his first wife while she was suffering from a terminal illness.

    2. OMGROFLSKATES
      WTF?

      Im a pedofile and a child molester....

      I believe in privacy rights!

      do I now get to be part of the special wing in prison?

      1. Vladimir Plouzhnikov

        Re: Im a pedofile and a child molester....

        "do I now get to be part of the special wing in prison?"

        Yes. The wing where Big "Momma" Jim will teach you all about molestation and abuse.

        But here you get to be part of a troll box...

  3. LaeMing
    Unhappy

    "hiding behind the abuse of children to justify a bill that is massively unpopular"

    In other words, child-abuse by proxy in the name of political expedience.

    That should be a crime in its own right.

    1. John Lilburne

      Re: "hiding behind the abuse of children to justify a bill that is massively unpopular"

      Maybe they've eventually heard about wikipedia's Erik Möller:

      http://mashable.com/2008/05/08/erik-moeller-pedophilia/

    2. Thomas 4
      WTF?

      Re: "hiding behind the abuse of children to justify a bill that is massively unpopular"

      Wow, it's too bad those two fuckwits pushing SOPA through congress didn't think of this.

      "But your honour, we have to protect our sweet and innocent children from the EVIL PREDATORY youtube video uploaders!!!!"

      "Bill passed."

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Re: "hiding behind the abuse of children to justify a bill that is massively unpopular"

        Thomas 4: "Wow, it's too bad those two fuckwits pushing SOPA through congress didn't think of this"

        ----------------------------------------------------

        They already did.

        It's called "H.R. 1981: Protecting Children From Internet Pornographers Act of 2011" and it's sponsored by Lamar Smith (the same guy behind SOPA).

        http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=h112-1981

        SOPA is on its way back even as we speak.

        1. ian 22

          Re: Re: Re: "hiding behind the abuse of children to justify a bill that is massively unpopular"

          When I were a lad, conservatives wrapped themselves in the flag ("attack me, attack the flag"). It seems they wrap themselves in nappies nowadays. Clean ones, I hope.

          1. JustWondering

            Re: Re: Re: Re: "hiding behind the abuse of children to justify a bill that is massively unpopular"

            "It seems they wrap themselves in nappies nowadays. Clean ones, I hope."

            Well, they were clean when they put them on ...

  4. Lars Silver badge
    Unhappy

    East Germany reborn

    Half the population spying on the rest of the population.

  5. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Throwing the baby out with the bath water.

    To think my grandfather went to war and placed his life on the line to fight against this kind of stupidity. With the living memory of those who fought on the beaches of Normandy, the hills of Italy and the jungles of the Pacific theatre fading, this kind of evil once again begins to fill the minds of men.

    Our freedoms were hard-won, paid for in blood by men & women who left their children fatherless or motherless in an effort to stop the growth these kinds of ideals. Sacrificing freedom for the false safety of a police-state is a lesson to be learned from history. A mistake to be avoided.

    My appologies to Martin Niemöller (1892–1984)

    First they came for the hackers,

    and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a hacker

    Then they came for the entertainment media pirates,

    and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a pirates.

    Then they came for the perverts,

    and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a pervert.

    Then they came for me

    and there was no one left to speak out for me.

    Anonymous, because this kind of government shenanigans scares the bejeepers out of me.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Professional politicians ...

      Never go to war, they send others to do it for them do not fight for rights, do not put their heads above the parapet,

      UNLESS IT IS IN THEIR OWN INTEREST, SELF INTEREST THE DO NOTHING.

  6. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Should have called the gun control law "Protecting children from gun weilding child abusers", I think I have a new theme for policy names... "Protecting children from child abusing reporters!" "Protecting children from child abusing copy right theives!" "Protecting children from child abusing immigrants!"

    Say you're protecting children from something child abusers sounds like a pretty solid strategy, I mean, nobodies gonna protect a child abuser!

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      I'm not an expert on this

      but I am a parent who detests child abusers, HOWEVER I know that such types are in the kids' close circle not on the internet (mainly), in fact often their own family

      which is why building high fences around UK schools is disgusting a Daily Mail-ism strategy and I HATE it, I don't want my kids to be taught in a concentration camp (I cried 3 years ago when I drove past my 1st very safe & lovely school which had 8 foot high fences grrrr)

      any _real_ paedos on the net well know how to hide from this sort technical bullshit FFS

      most Local Authorities and schools (courtesy of the parasites at the LEAs) use content filtering and I guess everyone on here knows that is 1990s "security" bollox

    2. Rippy
      Headmaster

      @AC 21:01 - Gun Control Law

      That one is /not/ a Gun Control Law, but a "long-gun" (rifle and shotgun) registration law. It's not particularly onerous; our hand-gun laws are far worse. I wasn't at all uncomfortable registering my old Lee-Enfield.

      What was wrong with the long-gun registry was the political theatre that got wrapped around it; it was presented as protecting Good City Folks (particularly from Ontario) from crazed Hunters and Farmers (particularly from Oilberta), and oddly enough rural folk didn't much care to be stigmatised.

      The Conservatives used the evil registry to crank up their base in the election and haven't had the courage to ditch the rhetoric.

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Actually,

      I'm all up for the "Protecting Children from the Molycoddling Moronic Politicians" bill personallym however, i dont see that happening.

  7. Chad H.
    WTF?

    sigh

    Once the tools of tryany are in place, its a case of when, not if, they are abused.

    Is there any evidence that Canadian Cops are having trouble busting pedo-rings?

    1. Richard Wharram
      Coffee/keyboard

      Re: sigh

      "Is there any evidence that Canadian Cops are having trouble busting pedo-rings?"

      My keyboard !!!

      1. Dr. Mouse

        Re: Re: sigh

        LOL! @ Richard Wharram

        I re-read after seeing your comment and now YOU owe me a keyboard!

  8. Johnny Canuck
    Joke

    Excuse me, but I hold the patent for appending "protecting children from pedophiles" to new legislation. The Canadian government must cease unlicensed usage of this phrase forthwith.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Big Brother

      Dear Mr Canuck

      Unfortunately, when we weote all the patent, copyright and trademark rules we made sure that politicians had an opt-out to anything as onerous as the laws that the rest of you little people live by, so alas, you do not have a claim.

      We do however hope you enjoy the free GPS Tracking system. and internet and phone tracing system we have installed for daring to question our motives.

      Have a nice day!

      A. M. Politician.

  9. This post has been deleted by its author

  10. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Thanks El Reg!!

    I recently requested El Reg to publish something about this issue because I think it needs to be broadcasted as much as we can. We, Canadians, are not happy about this bill and will try our best to keep our side of the internet free. To tell that every one that doesn't agree with this 1984 maneuver is a pedo is outrageous!

    Thanks again guys!

  11. hplasm
    Big Brother

    The ISPs need to-

    disconnect the Govt- surely they have the 'right to refuse service' like any shopkeep etc?

  12. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Our Canadian government tells us that this new law would keep pace with others already passed in the U. S., (no surprise there), the U. K., and Australia. But considering that our government routinely tells us things that are not true I wonder if readers from those countries would comment on its veracity? Note that the proposed law would allow an individual police officer to instruct an ISP to retain user's identification data for retrieval later upon submission of a warrant. In fact any public servant or agent of the government could make such a demand on any or every ISP in Canada. The focus of this law on "protecting children" begins and ends with its title.

    Curious, too, is that mere days after this law was introduced in Parliament fourteen Vancouver police officers were accused by an internal investigation of "viewing pornography and other inappropriate and offensive images while at work." Who is watching the police, I wonder?

    We're as mad as hell and we're not going to take it anymore!

    1. Steve Brooks

      lies

      "Our Canadian government tells us that this new law would keep pace with others already passed in the U. S., (no surprise there), the U. K., and Australia." Lies, all lies. Our government tries to introduce such laws claiming they are just keeping up with laws passed in Canada the US and the UK. They haven't been passed yet and are on the backburner due to the rather precarious state of the current government. A feather, let alone an unpopular law, could see the government fall over like a, well...badly balanced government.

      1. BitDr

        Re: lies

        As my mother used to say, "If everyone was jumping off of a cliff would you do it too"? We must think for ourselves.

        On the topic of the gun-registry, the problem is that criminals don't register their guns. For God's sake they're criminals, they don't follow the law. Look to history for the real uses to which gun-registrys have been put.

        1. JustWondering

          Re: Re: lies

          The Long Gun Registry was never meant to control criminal's guns. It's not surprising that it didn't help.

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Re: lies

          "If everyone was jumping off of a cliff would you do it too"?

          Probably. I wouldn't want to be billy no mates stood at the top of the cliff by myself :(

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      This type of activity is classed as a form of wire-tapping and is therefore illegal here in the UK (the BT Phorm scandal is a good example) also a court rulings made against the Belgian social network 'Netlog' requiring them to monitor uploads has been thrown out by the European Court of Justice which would pretty much rule out any such activity Europe wide.

      So if your government is saying similar laws apply here they are definitely lying to you.

      1. Arrrggghh-otron

        data retention directive

        The UK gov didn't need to be asked to implement the EU data retention directive, it was falling over itself to do it.

        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telecommunications_data_retention

    3. Field Marshal Von Krakenfart
      Big Brother

      Fixed it for you!!!

      "Our Canadian government tells us that this new law would keep pace with others already passed in the North Korea, Syria and Tukmansten".

  13. DanceMan
    Black Helicopters

    Conservatives

    Who's the party of Big Brother Government now?

  14. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    @AC 23:24

    " In fact any public servant or agent of the government could make such a demand on any or every ISP in Canada."

    ANY public servant or agent of government? Seriously? So if you annoy the temp on the front desk at the town hall, who is clearly working on behalf of govt, then he can check on your details?

    How stupid would a politico have to be to suggest that? I know over in the UK we have our fair share of stupid politicians (correction, more than our fair share recently), but this is a special kind of silly.

    1. AussieCanuck46

      Re: @AC 23:24

      According to the provisions of this proposed law anyone in a position of authority with government credentials, including the Department of Competition, can demand basic information from ISP's about anybody as long as it relates to "an act of Parliament" without a warrant. It's not just about police and child pornography. It's about tracking everyone until we figure out what they're guilty of. I smell a "Canadian Spring" coming on.

      I already know that my IP address is being tracked just by sending this comment. I hope the government builds those new jails soon so I'll have a place to sleep after I'm convicted of subversion.

  15. ph0b0s

    Spreading like wildfire

    Wow, similar bills are springing up everywhere. The EU, the US, the state of Hawaii and now Canada. It's almost like Government's have been negotiating / coordinating in secret without any transparency, but of course that would never happen....

    Back to the standard argument of 'only people who have something to hide, want privacy', thanks Google CEO for that one.

  16. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Toews talks about child pr0n just a bit too often...

    Makes me wonder.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Toews talks about child pr0n just a bit too often...

      He couldn't figure out how to proxy.

      Neither could any paedo this law actually catches.

      I'm betting it'll be used to appease the RIAA/MPAA, ironically letting them victimize a bunch of innocent children with massive fines for downloading a song.

    2. John Smith 19 Gold badge
      Childcatcher

      AC@02:00

      You have to wonder about these sheet sniffers.

      Think of the children. Indeed he never seems to stop thinking of them.

  17. JeffyPooh
    Pint

    What's so difficult about getting a warrant?

    Amend the rules (if not already in place) to allow emergency warrants-by-telephone when urgently required. Give iPhones to the local judges (real judges). Install a telephone call recording system. Give the Sgt. a list of the judges' phone numbers. Follow up with a simple e-form warrant. Job's done. Nothing else is required. A proper warrant process as above takes no more than about three extra minutes... ...while protecting fundamental rights. Gee, Duh!?!?

    This type of bill is obviously to enable something else.

  18. frank ly
    Headmaster

    Pedophile?

    What do foot lovers have do with all this? It seems to be about paedophiles.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Pedophile?

      Is this mixing the Greek with the Latin?

  19. JustWondering

    Conservative hypocrite

    This guy, Mr Toews is supposed to be Mr Law and Order etc. Meanwhile he got what used to be his babysitter pregnant when she was 20 years old. Then he cut off support to his ex. Information is very thin on the ground here, none of the papers here covered the story when it happened or even last year when once again Mr Toews was reelected in a very conservative riding. The local "lefty" paper, lefty only in comparison to our other oracle, published the current story but comments were suspended when they became unsuitable. Yes, this paper also supported the Conservatives. This is our Law and Order government elected to a majority with the support of 24% of eligible voters. *facepalm*

  20. bobdobbs
    Pirate

    a perfectly constructed ruse

    Toews is being intentionally outrageous, getting everybody riled-up and focused on the absurdity of the kiddy pron and pedo accusations.

    All this to deflect attention from the real and true aim of this law: laying the groundwork for one-stop copyright infringement enforcement. When the Cons introduce their planned copyright reform bill later on, they want to already have the laws in place allowing forceful and quick application of the new copyright penalties. The last thing they want is to be arguing why these powers are necessary when it's obvious what they actually want to use them for.

    (oh, and don't think I'm implying that Toews himself is somehow the mastermind behind this, he's much to thick)

  21. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    We are cattle.

    We are a herd. We are farmed. Perhaps I read too much Alex Jones. Haven't you realized by now that these internet bills and their brethens in other countries like the USA are actually more invasive than China's ? No shit. I kid you not.

    1. Anonymous Coward 15
      Alien

      Re: We are cattle.

      Any Alex Jones is too much Alex Jones.

  22. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Yeah, rhetoric for the win..

    You'd have to be a complete moron to believe a politician who said something as dumb ass as "You're either with us or you are with the terrorists ^h^h^h^h^h^h^h^h^h^h paedophiles"

  23. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Britain, leaders of the free world...

    RIPA

  24. John Smith 19 Gold badge
    Stop

    so how difficutlt is it to get a log of an internet users activity in the UK.

    Not very.

    It comes under RIPA but if its just what websites and email addresses I *think* this just needs the support of a senior police officer. If you want content *then* you need a warrant from a judge.

    But in the UK (so far) there are no *direct* boxes in the ISP offices. And the ISP's can *charge* for the date.

    Which (so far) seems the *only* thing that stops more police fishing trips.

    However there is the ongoing GCH "Controlling the Internet" programme and Dettica (part of BAe) who *do* want to copy all that data to Cheltenham to find the terrorists by building their contact graphs.

    Expect Dettica (formerly Smith Associates) or some Canadian subsidiary to be sniffing around if there's hardware involved. IIRC Lockheed Martin have some involvement in this sort of stuff as well. As full service govt con-tractors no trough goes without their snout getting into it.

    Can you say NP complete?

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: so how difficutlt is it to get a log of an internet users activity in the UK.

      Expect an upsurge in SSL traffic to some godforsaken former Soviet republic full of iffy VPN services.

  25. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Tor

    Has anyone noticed that Tor is a lot faster on Canadian sites lately?

  26. SYNTAX__ERROR
    Headmaster

    "giving ... authorities access to internet user’s online history"

    Whoa, hang on, hang on

    Which internet user are we talking about here?

    Or are you suggesting there is only one person in Canada who uses the Internet?

    1. John Smith 19 Gold badge
      Happy

      Re: "giving ... authorities access to internet user’s online history"

      "Which internet user are we talking about here?

      Or are you suggesting there is only one person in Canada who uses the Internet?"

      Well if it's Henry Spencer you won't like the result.

  27. Winkypop Silver badge
    Big Brother

    RE: Re: Latex moose grooming

    A thinly disguised piece of control that leads to the tin edge of the surveillance wedge.

  28. John Smith 19 Gold badge
    Big Brother

    "Protecting Children from Internet Preditors"

    Nice piece of NewSpeak..

    You can bet the language of the bill itself will have *no* such limits.

  29. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Tell Vic Everything protest

    You can make your views hear by filling his twitter feed with all the details he doesn't want to know about your life. See the protest here: http://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/story/2012/02/16/pol-twitter-tell-vic-everything.html

    anon obviously

  30. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    "The Protecting Children from Internet Predators Act"

    Excuse me?! Why not just call it the "ill informed tosspots panicking over next to nothing as usual in rather childish way to get attention but pissing off all sane people act"!

  31. Semaj
    Thumb Up

    Good to see that the Canadians are giving this moron (with his stupid idea shared by so many across the western world) the contempt he deserves and have not fallen for the old "rename the bill to something no one would oppose" trick.

    Still though - they were (one of) the first to have the stupid anti-cartoon porn laws so they don't pick up on everything. I'm guessing the government were sneaky with that one too.

  32. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Just a thinly veiled attempt to legalize the snooping system that is already in place

    The FBI already has a tracking system installed at many ISP's called Echelon. They stop at the ISP's office unannounced with the box in hand and tell the owner that they either agree to install the box or face an audit, false acusations of harboring kiddie porn sites, or WORSE etc, etc, etc.

    No warrant or other legal documents are provided. The RCMP have their own version as do other departments.

    They need this legislation to pass so that these "intelligence agencies" can continue to listen to and record internet traffic even though this practice is patently unconstitutional and illegal in most Western Countries.

  33. Anonymous Noel Coward
    Childcatcher

    Two can play at this game...

    If you vote for Conservative, you're voting for PEDOPHILIA!

    Just a friendly reminder from your friends in the <name> party!

  34. Bill Gould
    WTF?

    Maple Leaf Act

    It's taken us longer than the normal 5 years to follow the US and adopt a Homeland Security Act of our own. I am surprised. I guess I'll just use an ISP that allows me to encrypt all traffic.

  35. JustWondering

    Good idea!

    From the Twitterverse: "I want someone to introduce a bill called the 'Protecting Babysitters from Conservative Predators Act #DontToewsMeBro"

  36. JustWondering

    The babysitter bonker replies:

    The old goat sent a letter to his constituents:

    http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/breakingnews/Toews-speaks-out-on-Twitter-turmoil-in-letter-to-constituents-139573018.html

  37. Randy
    Big Brother

    UPDATE

    I live in Canada. I am employed by one of these ISPs. Here's an update:

    http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/story/2012/02/18/pol-thehouse-vic-toews.html

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