back to article Reg hack cops a licking from the bosun's cat

Reg readers are wonderful. Here's a mail exchange with a reader picking us up on our use of the expression "Casts anchor" in a supercomputer article. Phil the Reg reader: 'Casts' anchor? Could provide a reference for that expression, please? Moi: It's mundane I fear Philip. Since the supercomputer was described as a ship, …

COMMENTS

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  1. David Webb

    As an apt topic...

    " though scurvy landlubbers plainly still do"

    Wasn't it seamen that suffered from scurvy due to a lack of vitamin C? Some bloke introduced limes because he discovered it prevented scurvy (not knowing it was the vitamin C in it) hence why the yanks call us Limeys, because during the golden age of sailing we had teeth and they didn't?

    Merry Christmas :)

    1. Tom 260

      Lemon was the original fruit (juice) used to prevent scurvy, but limes were easier to obtain (I believe they mostly came from our Caribbean possessions), so we tended to use those instead, hence us brits being called limeys and not anyone else (as they sucked lemons!)

      Merry Christmas! :)

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Boffin

        Scurvy

        yes, originally lemons; limes are a very poor substitute.

        http://idlewords.com/2010/03/scott_and_scurvy.htm

        "Except for the nature of vitamin C, eighteenth century physicians knew this too. But in the second half of the nineteenth century, the cure for scurvy was lost. The story of how this happened is a striking demonstration of the problem of induction, and how progress in one field of study can lead to unintended steps backward in another. "

      2. david 12 Silver badge

        Limeys

        From 1795 -1840, the British Admiralty used Lemon juice, then drifted over to using Lime juice: From 1860 the admiralty contracted for supply with juice from limes from the West Indies rather than lemons from Europe. The lime juice (and the method of preparation) was less effective, and scurvy returned to the British Navy until abolished by shorter steam-powered trips. Scurvy remained a problem on long trips until it was better understood around 1920.

        There seems to have been two reasons for the switch from Lemons to Limes (1) There was not a clear distinction between Lemons and Limes. (2) There was no a clear understanding of the different antiscorbutic properties of different Lemon/Lime juices. Lacking scientific understanding, the 1860 contract was a political decision.

        1. Robert Carnegie Silver badge

          Also all the lemons were in the hands of Napoleon, I heard on "QI".

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Lacking scientific understanding, the 1860 contract was a political decision

          150-odd years later, it's good to see HM Government sticking to the traditional procurement process.

    2. stu_ekins

      How ironic that tanks now refer to "English teeth" in a derogatory sense.

      Merry Christmas.

      1. stu_ekins

        s/tanks/yanks/

        So much for "smart" phones.

        1. Gerry Doyle 1

          so much for 'smart' people

          From naval slang to rhyming slang might be a bit too much of a jump for some!

          Anyway - there is CANOE - the Campaign to Attribute Nautical Origins to Everything...

          1. jake Silver badge

            @Gerry Doyle 1

            Note that the correction was made by the original poster ... and that the actual slang word in use is "septic", not "tank". Perhaps your Subject^WTitle is more apt than you might think. Might want to use your loaf & read for comprehension ;-)

            1. Gerry Doyle 1

              Doh!

              Hoisted by my own petard, guilty as charged. Sorry stu!

              1. jake Silver badge
                Pint

                @Gerry Doyle 1

                That's "hoist by your own petard". Pet peeve. Look it up.

                Or "hoise by", if you're being archaic & petulant, just to remain on topic ;-)

                Let's split the remaining beer and call it all good. Happy Solstice season :-)

                1. Gerry Doyle 1

                  Probably not actually ironic

                  @jake - Had I been quoting from Hamlet you might have been right, but I wasn't. By the same token, if that's what you are referencing, then you might need to look it up yourself.

                  Mine's a pint of water with a dash of blackcurrant, thanks.

        2. AndrueC Silver badge
          FAIL

          >So much for "smart" phones

          The problem with smart phone spelling I've found lies with Android. It defaults to its suggestion rather than what you typed. My Nokia did the reverse. It offered corrections but what you'd typed was the default.

          So the problem it seems to me is that Android thinks it's smarter than the operator.

          Fail because technology hasn't yet reached the point where it is consistently (or even partially) more intelligent than me.

          1. Tom Maddox Silver badge
            FAIL

            Ahem

            "The problem with smart phone spelling I've found lies with Android."

            http://damnyouautocorrect.com would beg to disagree.

    3. DF118
      Coat

      Continuing the theme

      Surely that should be "on the same topic", "continuing the theme" or somesuch phrase rather than "as an apt topic" which comes very close to (but crucially does not actually) mean what you intended it to, given that the topic itself has not changed?

      Mine's the one with the well-thumbed, all-weather copy of Fowler's.

      1. David Webb

        It should be, but it's not because the topic is anchors and whether or not anchors weigh anything, or maybe I mis-read the entire article but I'm sure it was to do with Anchorage, or cats, or using cats as anchors, would that even work?

  2. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    So that's cleared up then

    ex-mariners really are the most pedantic people on Earth

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Ex-mariner

      Anyone checked with Mr Page? Surely he would have personal experience of dropping or casting anchors during his time in the Senior Service?

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re:Ex-mariner

        Or searching for the golden rivet.

  3. mike 32

    At first I thought "cast" was apt...

    but now I'm not sure. I defn know "weigh anchor", would assume "cast anchor" would be to drop it, in general use.

    Tsk. Pedants.

  4. Tim Worstal

    Hmmm

    "warmer than a jan dockie's starboard oggie pocket"

    Trying to find the derivation of this there are three Google references. This article and an earlier El Reg one in two versions.

    Is this jackspeak only in the confines of Mr. Page's head?

    1. SkippyBing

      I'm assuming he means Janner, not Jan dockie, in which case it makes perfect sense.

      A Janner is from Plymouth and an Oggie is a pasty, the rest I leave as an exercise for the reader.

      1. RCL

        The expression is indeed; 'Jan dockie'. A Dockie is a dockyard worker. A Plymouth dockyard worker is a Jan dockie.

  5. Anonymous Coward
    Thumb Up

    New Keyboard please...

    Just laughed Bread sauce over my keyboard, I do believe in that sort of circumstance the Reg owes me a new one.

    Happy Christmas everyone!

  6. FrankAlphaXII
    IT Angle

    Sooo...

    There isnt much of an IT angle here, but if the Navy and Marines get an article about their slang, then those of us of the Military land lubber variety need one too. We have alot of weird IT related words, like directly IT (and also to a lesser extent Technical Intelligence) related.

    Id be happy to write it, because I used to be a Soldier like them, before I took an arrow in the knee.

    1. Field Marshal Von Krakenfart
      IT Angle

      Might I suggest

      Stan Kelly-Bootle's The Devil's DP Dictionary and its 2nd ed, The Computer Contradictionary

  7. William Boyle
    Thumb Up

    I wonder

    I have to wonder what my good mate Popeye would make of all this bilge... :-)

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Joke

      Popeye singing the Sex Pistols song "friggin in the riggin" would be the response I'd imagine from all this, but given he looks like he went downhill and started shooting up causing his arm to swell up leading him to have a stroke, does make it somewhat hard to be sure what he's saying about anything regarding this Sciencemass anchour article.

  8. VeganVegan
    Pirate

    swinging on the anchor

    We were anchored off of San Clemente once, to dodge a bit of weather. As the sea bed fell off rapidly, and our boat's anchor chain is of limited length, we were anchored rather close to the rocky shoreline. (Our boat was a 80-foot tuna fishing vessel converted to a trawler).

    As the most junior member on board (by far), I got the mid watch (midnight to 4 am). San Clemente is famous for its squid population, so we did not run any lights. The squid are attracted by light, and can swarm up around the boat, to block its bilge pump outlets. If that happens, the boat takes on water and cannot pump it back out. Not a good thing.

    My main job was to try to make out the line of surf and make sure that the boat does not end up on the rocks as the turning tide and currents swing the boat around the anchor. It was not easy to see the surf, as it was a cloudy night with no moon.

    Fortunately, a little bit of geometry, regarding the length of the anchor chain, and the likely depth of where the anchor lay, convinced me that we would never come close enough to the shore to present a hazard. That is, unless we dragged the anchor, that would be very bad indeed.

    Fortunate for me, the watch passed uneventfully. (Unlike several other occasions that this very junior member of the crew thoroughly embarrassed himself).

    Happy Holidays!

  9. Anonymous Coward
    Joke

    In further news

    A anti whaling boat named the Steve Erwin has used a `milatary like`(technical term for a remote AV with a camera and no armements) drone to locate a japanese whaling boat. The name of the japanese whaling boat is currently unknown though the hope is that the boat that fires sharp pointing things is not called stingray.

    Now back to the turkey.

  10. Thing

    Websters?

    There's your mistake right there! As a .co.uk site I think we have the right to insist on the Oxford English.

    ... bloody colonials

  11. Wile E. Veteran
    Boffin

    To add to the confusion...

    In teaching small-craft safety classes for new sailors and power boaters, we DO note that for small craft (a small craft is any vessel whose LOA is less than 20 meters/65 feet) it IS actually the flukes that do the holding. The anchor chain, which is usually under 3 meters/10 feet in length, exists to assist the anchor flukes to dig in to the bottom through its weight The rest of the rode is usually Dacron line of a suitable diameter for the weight of the boat. The most popular anchor type for small craft is of the Danforth type which relies solely on its flukes to hold the vessel. We do *strongly* recommend the scope (ratio of rode length to water depth) never be less than 5:1, is normally 7:1 and should be 10:1 in heavier weather. Small craft should never be out in heavy weather in any event!

    As far as "station" goes, a small-craft station is a circle whose radius is the rode length and the vessel will assume any orientation along the circumference of that circle depending on wind direction and current direction.

    Few, if any, of these considerations apply to ships (vessels > 20meters LOA) although many define a "ship" as a vessel greater than 30 meters/100 feet in length/

    Bill Meahan - Boating Safety Instructor, United States Coast Guard Auxiliary

    1. I. Aproveofitspendingonspecificprojects
      Boffin

      Ships and boats

      I was wondering if someone was going to make a distinction between ships and boats. I was thinking the anchor pictured would be a boat anchor or for a very small ship. One off from a trwler then?

      It looks about 6 feet long and I'm guessing weighs half a ton or just under.

      If it was cast once it must have also been wrought. It would never have been cast from a boat as it is too heavy for two men to handle safely and not from a ship as it would be hanging off the sharp end, out of reach to most.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Must do things different over there

      I've never seen a Danforth or anchor rope on anything over about 22 ft - it's always a CQR / Plough anchor and a locker full of chain from what I've seen in UK/Europe/Oz. Good thing too, at least until your winch packs up when you're anchored in 18m.

      Arrrr.

    3. Wile E. Veteran
      Boffin

      OOPS!

      Should never post a comment while full of the Christmas Spirit(s) :-)

      Anchor lines usually are made of braided NYLON, not Dacron. Nylon is somewhat elastic and the elasticity serves as a shock absorber as waves hit the bow.

      The station radius is shorter than the rode length. Actually, the radius of the station begins at an imaginary point directly above the anchor and the rode forms the hypotenuse of a right triangle one of whose sides is the water depth and the other side is the "real" station radius.

      if S is the station radius, R is the rode length and D is the water depth, S = sqrt( R ** 2 - D ** 2)

      If being a pedant, better to be an accurate pedant. :-)

      One more point about small-craft anchoring: the primary anchor is ALWAYS attached to the bow, NEVER to the stern! If attached to the stern, the vessel is in genuine danger of being pooped. That is, larger waves will come in over the transom and swamp the boat. A couple of (American-style) football players were drowned a couple of years back when they anchored from the stern of the boat they were fishing from, a wind came up and the boat was pooped and swamped. The boat was too small to be that far out, anyway, but if the anchor had been attached to the bow, the boat would have simply rode over the incoming waves.

      Bill Meahan - Boating Safety Instructor, United States Coast Guard Auxiliary

      1. The First Dave
        Boffin

        That is _still_ an approximation - the anchor chain will never usually form a straight line.

  12. jake Silver badge

    Have none of all y'all ...

    ... ever gone fishing? I cast a line this morning to catch part of Christmas Dinner. Likewise, one of the horses cast a shoe the other day ...

    Happy Solstice[1] from Sunny Sonoma, California :-)

    [1] No, I'm not Pagan (or any other religion), I just celebrate the fact that the days are getting longer now.

    1. This post has been deleted by its author

    2. I. Aproveofitspendingonspecificprojects

      Correctio (I think)

      The nights are getting shorter and the days will be getting longer soon. (I think that's right.)

      1. This post has been deleted by its author

      2. jake Silver badge

        @I. Aproveofitspendingonspecificprojects

        Winter solstice was on the 22nd of this month, at 05:30 UTC. Winter is here, and Spring is on the way. If you're in Oz, your mileage may vary :-)

        1. Chemist

          Re : @I. Aproveofitspendingonspecificprojects → #

          You are both sort of correct.

          Winter solstice was indeed 22 nd Dec when the day length was shortest.

          However sunset and sunrise move in phase but with a lead/lag so sunset here is getting later and has been since ~Dec 14th but sunrise is still around its latest and it'll be early January before it becomes earlier.

  13. Lars Silver badge
    Coat

    Cast anchor

    Must be a fairly common expression. In Swedish the term is "kasta ankare" also "förankra" which would be to anchor. I bet the cast anchor is used in many languages.

    No body would rely only on the weight of the chain. The longer the chain/rope the less strain is put on the anchor and that is not only because of the weight but because of the angle of the tension.

    Happy New Year

    1. Literate

      Ignorance no excuse

      You're quite wrong, shipmate. For ships, it IS the weight of the anchor cable. With many sea bottoms, there is only silt and thus the fluke will have little to grip. You should seek the advice of those who know before issuing definitive statements. "I would have thought" is acceptable, but not "Nobody would .... "

  14. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Boat Anchor

    Is what we used to call a recently retired supercomputer... or even a brand new IBM-architecture super.

    1. I. Aproveofitspendingonspecificprojects
      Holmes

      When they appear on the MetO North Atlantic SSP charts (produced by the supercomputer that they have now got running, I am led to believe) boat anchors forecast volcanic activity.

    2. Wile E. Veteran
      Happy

      Boatanchor

      Is also the term used in the electronics/amateur radio community to describe tube (valve) equipment, particularly old communications receivers and transmitters which typically weighed in the neighborhood of 100 lbs.

  15. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Websters! Haha

    There's your mistake, right there.

    Websters is a dictionary of YANKLISH, not English.

    1. Tom Pittman
      Thumb Up

      Ahh...

      I'm glad our lingo is finally being recognized.

  16. All names Taken

    There seems to be a lot of mariner type terms on the go no?

    'net

    web

    trawl

  17. Daedalus
    Pint

    You missed one!

    You're pursuing this topic right to the bitter end!

    (look it up).

  18. cordwainer 1
    Boffin

    cast on, cast off

    English wrings every meaning it can from some words, to wit (from The Concise OED):

    cast, v.t. & i. (cast). Throw (poet, or archaic exc. in spec, uses, as : c. dice ; c. a vote, give or deposit it ; c. lots ; c. ashore ; c. net, hook, fly ; casting-net, one thrown & at once drawn in ; c. the lead l , in sounding ; c. anchor ; c. in one's teeth, reproach him with, that ; c. an eye, glance, look ; c. a spell on, bewitch ; c. light, a shadow, on; c. blame, one's cares, upon ; c. into prison) ; overthrow in a lawsuit ; throw off, get rid of, lose, (c. not a clout till May be out ; c. aside, give up using, abandon ; horse casts shoe ; snake, deer, c. slough, horns ; cow, tree, c. calf, fruit, drop prematurely; c. soldier, policeman, horse, dismiss, reject ; c. loose, de- tach, detach oneself) ; reckon, calculate, (c. accounts, do sums ; c. a column of figures &c, add up ; c. a horoscope or nativity) ; arrange (c. facts into such a shape ; c. actors for parts, parts to actors) ; form, found, (molten metal) into some shape, (figure &c.) of metal, whence

    ca'stING i(2) n. ; c. about, go this way & that in search, devise means, (for, to do, how); c. away, reject, (pass., of ship) be wrecked ; c. back, revert ; c. down, depress ; c. in one's lot with, share fortunes of; c. off, abandon, (Knitting) close loops & make selvedge ; c. up, calculate, [f. ON kasta perh. cogn. w. L gerere gest- ; it displaced OE weorpan, & has been displaced in ordinary literal use by throw]

    cast 2 , n. Throw of missile &c, distance so attained, (archaic) ; throw, number thrown, at dice, whence chance or try; throw of net, sounding-lead, or fishing-line (also in fishing the fly with hook & gut; & good, bad, &c. place for casting) ; casual lift in cart &c. ; un- digested food thrown up by hawk, owl, &c. ; calculation, adding of columns in account; set of actors taking the parts in play, or the distribution among them ; form into which any work is thrown ; model made by running molten metal or pressing soft material into mould (also the negative mould itself) ; twist, inclination, (c. in eye, slight squint) ; tinge- shade, of colour; type, quality, (esp. c. Oj features, c. of mind), [f. prec]

    p.s.

    a'nehor 1 (-k-), n. Heavy iron, composed of long shank, with ring at one end to which cable is fastened, and at other end two barbed arms, used for mooring ship to bottom of water ; sheet, bower, hedge, -a., (largest, middle, smallest size) ; (fig.) source of confidence ; **cast, weigh, a., let down, take up, a. ;** at a., anchored ; come to (an) a., anchor; a.-plate, heavy piece of timber or metal serving as point of support for cables of suspension-bridge &c. ; a.-watch, watch set while ship lies at anchor. [OE ancor f. L ancora (not anch-) perh. cogn. w. or adop- tion of Gk agkura (st. agk- hook)]

    1. Field Marshal Von Krakenfart
      Joke

      Cast on, knit 1, Purl 1, Cast off

      Sounds like knitting to me

  19. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Makes no bloody difference

    Whether it's dropped or cast, as soon as some East European sees it hanging loose they'll nick it and sell it for scrap quicker than a scouser can de-wheel a Mercedes.</DMMode>

  20. GeordiePorker

    As a current seagoing Naval-type, all I can say is "love it" - especially the re-use of the term warmer than jan-dockies starboard oggie pocket...classic.

    Keep it up El Reg! :)

  21. Simon Palmer
    FAIL

    Ye Heathens!!

    Read your Bible!

    http://bible.cc/acts/27-30.htm

    And as the shipmen were about to flee out of the ship, when they had let down the boat into the sea, under colour as though they would have cast anchors out of the foreship,

    1. I. Aproveofitspendingonspecificprojects
      Alert

      In the middle of the night. I go wallowing in the deep.

      Wearing a couple of boat anchors. Though the waves are so steep.

      Shipmen got in the non ship type floatation device and pretended to be taking the spare anchor out to some unspecified location to unspecifically help the ship ride the waves better in some way. Just like any man jack of them would do in such circumstances.

  22. btone
    Facepalm

    is this a lolca(s)t?

  23. Will Godfrey Silver badge
    Happy

    Never mind all that. What's really important is that we have our snowy banner (unlike last year)

  24. Robert Carnegie Silver badge

    Then the bowsprit got mixed with the rudder sometimes.

  25. jjnet
    Trollface

    While it's pronounced "bosun", spelling is "boatswain".

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      have they discovered the Higgs Boatswain yet?

      1. Field Marshal Von Krakenfart
        Paris Hilton

        Or the Higgins boat boatswain

        Paris, who is nothing like the Titanic (they know how many people went down on the Titanic)

  26. Rambo 1

    Some folks will argue about the most arcane shit, I swear. I want my 3 minutes back I wasted reading that. I suppose the minute I lost posting about it is on me though.

  27. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    tl

    dr

  28. Sam 15

    It's all nonsense anyway.

    They didn't cast anchors.

    Too brittle.

    Wrought Iron was far more suitable..

  29. Chris Sake

    No cock-billing please

    <quote>"Possibly our sub editors, who produced the casting anchor idea, had the idea that casting anchor was something mariners did before setting sail..."</quote>

    'Casting' is a different term than 'to cast anchor'.

    'Casting' is turning the ship into the desired direction before weighing (raising) anchor. Necessary to avoid sailing off into the land or another ship.

    'To cast anchor' is a term no longer needed by the RN, unless the cuts become too much and HMS Victory returns to active service.

    It refers to one method of laying out an anchor, as per "Seamanship in the Age of Sail" by John H. Harland:

    "Laying out an Anchor

    "Terminology: A small "kedge anchor" and hawser were user to 'warp' the ship, in certain circumstances. 'Kedge' derives from Middle English caggen, 'to draw, or fasten'; both the French term ancre a jet, and Dutch werpanker, have the connotation 'throw-anchor', and presumably are related to the small craft practice of throwing a grapnel out ahead, and hauling up to it. English 'warp', for that matter, also has the basic meaning of 'to throw', although in this particular sense, it probably came into English from Dutch werfen. The same basic thought underlies the traditional phrase 'to cast anchor', which is synonymous with 'to anchor'."

  30. Pennsyjohn
    Holmes

    Casting the anchor

    Let's go back to when men first started sailing.

    Back then, anchors were rocks with lines wrapped around them to hold the boat in place. They later evolved to rocks with a hole in it for making sure the rope didn't slip.

    These were carried on deck, and when you went to use them you threw them over the side. You would want to throw (or cast) them over the side so as to not have the rock hit the side of the ship and damage it. Hence, casing anchor.

    The first fluked anchor stopped the rocks and were hung over the side at the cathead.

    Fun looking that up.

    Enjoy, my British cousins

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      "When men first started sailing"...

      The English language did not exist, therefore the correct nautical term to describe the action of lobbing roped boulders over the side was not the modern English, "cast anchor".

  31. big_D Silver badge

    Cast away

    When I was sailing (dinghies and yachts), we used casting the anchor - good, that was in the 70s and 80s, when I were a nipper.

  32. MrJP
    Thumb Up

    Totes Hilare!

  33. Anonymous Coward
    Paris Hilton

    Last Year I got Bored

    Because The Reg took a holiday. This year, it seems that things have improved, and I can still have my daily dose!

    To alternate the complements with the brickbats: You /have/ sub-editors?

    Delighted to know, though that nautical usage is safe in the hands of an ex-sailor editor, but let me remind him of one thing: It may be that comparatively few Brits sail for a living, but very many do as a hobby, pastime, or even lifetime if lucky enough. And they do actually 'sail' (wind, sails, all that). And, if you think that grammar nazzis are bad, just try suggesting to a British sailor that he might "ship his oars," when they are already in place in the rollocks and he is rowing happily.

    There are two kinds of sea-based sayings in your language: the real and the fake. The real, eg, "being taken aback," are not even understood, despite common usage. The fake, like "any port in a storm..." Well, the last thing any sane sailor wants to do is to enter an unknown port in bad weather.

    Paris. The face that launched ...Oh, never mind...

    Happy New Year :)

  34. DufferAlert

    You cast off line when leaving the dock

    .. which is probably where the confusion arises.

    Of cause, casting off your anchor line would generally be a bad thing to do. Saw it done earlier this year when we were anchored watching the AC45 racing off Drake's Island off that Jannerville. Some idiotic posh womann helming a 50' Bavaria tried to park up too close between our two rafted boats and and another yacht (flying an RNLI banner). She managed to foul the other yachts anchor line with her anchor and then get her line under their boat while having to be pushed off the long bowsprit on my friends old gaffer fishing smack. The other yacht got out their bolt croppers and threatened to cut the anchor line, which convinced the idiot boat to put a buoy on the end of their anchor and CAST IT OFF. Not so.mething to do in a hurry

  35. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Anchors are heavy. Casting them is therefore difficult. As you generally want them to go in a downward direction, it is also pointless, as gravity will do the work for you. Personally, with next to no nautical experience, I can honestly say I've not heard the phrase, "casts anchor" before now.

This topic is closed for new posts.