back to article God particle may be within our grasp

Physicists working on the Large Hadron Collider will be announcing their latest batch of results at a seminar next week. It’s only been a day since CERN announced the seminar at which the ATLAS and CMS experiments would present the status of their search for the elusive God particle, but the blogosphere is already alight with …

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  1. This post has been deleted by its author

  2. Turtle

    This Will Be A Famous Victory For String Theory!

    This will be a famous victory for string theory: no matter what the results and conclusions are - string theory predicted it! Does Higgs exist? String theory predicted it! Does it not exist? String theory predicted that too!

    As Humpty-Dumpty would say, "That's glory for you!"

    SuSy is next!

    1. Scorchio!!
      Coat

      Re: his Will Be A Famous Victory For String Theory!

      "This will be a famous victory for string theory: no matter what the results and conclusions are - string theory predicted it! Does Higgs exist? String theory predicted it! Does it not exist? String theory predicted that too!"

      Ah yes. Over the decades, watching string theorists jump through theoretical hoops as they try to unify the forces I have often playfully thought that there should be one force to bind them all.

      Mine's the anorak.

    2. Fred Flintstone Gold badge

      Is that the Monty Python String theory?

      Ah, the memories. "Due to bad planning the string comes in 3 inch lengths. So it's not very useful"

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7qNj-QFZbew et al - it's actually audio only.

      1. Scorchio!!
        Happy

        Re: Is that the Monty Python String theory?

        Not as good as the secret service sketch; "Wait a minute!!! You're not Miss Jackson! Ah yes you are, jolly good disguise Miss Jackson."

        Prize idiocy with not too much damage. Thanks for the reminder. :-)

  3. alain williams Silver badge

    Eventual announcement

    If it is announced as found I trust that el reg will not cover it in a light and frivolous manner but in a style that reflect the true gravity of the discovery.

    1. Anonymous John

      You're new here, aren't you? Expect the words "boffin", boffinry", and "God-particle" to appear under one of Lester's legendary sexually suggestive alliterative headlines.

    2. oldredlion
      Happy

      "but in a style that reflect the true gravity"

      Hopefully, the historic moment will be captured in Lego.

      1. Graham Marsden
        Happy

        @oldredlion

        ITYM Playmobil!

    3. Gerhard den Hollander
      Boffin

      > I trust that el reg will not cover it in a light and frivolous manner but in a style that reflect the true gravity of the discovery.

      True gravity .. pun intended ?

  4. Joel 8
    Stop

    Quit Calling it the Effing 'God Particle'

    Higgs, the person mainly responsible for the theory of the Higgs Boson is an ATHEIST!

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Quit Calling it the Effing 'God Particle'

      They're just doing the groundwork for an upcoming series of Higg's-denialist articles, using the so-called "religious fervor" of "God particle acolytes" as a straw man to undermine the reputation of particle physicists. Not sure how they're going to get tax into the equation, but I suppose the LHC does cost a bit to run (and it's a European project! Oh noes!)

    2. Phil O'Sophical Silver badge

      God particle

      The story I heard was that Higgs called it the "goddammed particle", but his (American) publisher wasn't keen on that as a book title, and reckoned that "God particle" would sell better.

      1. Fred Flintstone Gold badge
        Joke

        Gawd particle, of course..

        If it was up to an *American* publisher it would be called the Gawd particle..

        Honestly, can't you tell English from American?

        :D

  5. Elmer Phud
    Boffin

    A whiff of Higgs

    They can maybe smell it but they also reckon it could be 2013 before they can once again run the LHC up to speed in order to actually try and net the little buggers.

  6. anadish

    Higgs field -- impossible!

    Let me tell you why it is not possible for Higgs boson to be there, because there cannot be any fields in a realistic understanding of the natural world. Fields were devised in the times of Maxwell to comprehend pre quantum phenomena. Every event has to have a particle/wave explanation, no field would fill in the details where a postulation is weak. It's a non quantum sub ev world out there. Gravitation and mass are due to a very different form of particle or particles, no resemblance with Higgs. Look for DCE research in Sweden, if you want to see the shape of the things to come. Eventually STR will be marginalized and space and mass will be seen as interchangeable.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Fields

      But I have a field out the back of my house.. seems pretty natual to me.. it's got cows and everything in it..

      Just have to find out if they're very small or just far away now...

      1. Shakje
        Unhappy

        Re: Fields

        I miss Father Ted

        1. Scorchio!!
          Thumb Up

          RE: Re: Fields

          "I miss Father Ted"

          There's a Father Ted society list. I had the link somewhere. Anyhow, people get to dress up as vicars and what not, at some remote island on the Emerald Isle.

          I've just found the link: http://www.tedfest.org/

          Go in peace my child.

    2. ian 22

      @Anadish

      Good God (or Higgs Boson), man! You've garnered a dozen down votes, and I don't understand your post in the least. I suspect no one else does either and resent it, thus the down votes.

      Say what you mean, and mean what you say!

    3. No, I will not fix your computer
      Stop

      Re: Higgs field -- impossible!

      Well, so much for multi governmental research, you've destroyed decades of study and millions of hours of PhD time in one paragraph, hope they kept the receipt.

    4. Field Marshal Von Krakenfart
      Trollface

      @Anadish Kumar Pal, spot the troll

      I thought that "Look for DCE research in Sweden, if you want to see the shape of the things to come" would be a fairly unique string to search for on the interwebs, it is. It looks like you have posted nearly exactly the same comment on over 30 more-technical forums than elReg since 21st Nov 2011

      Given the number of negative comments you have received on other forums I would have thought you would have refined/developed your original post to include a little bit more information than your first post.

      Troll icon Anadish, you.

  7. Scott 2
    Black Helicopters

    Cue the Illuminati

    ....they'll be paying them a visit soon.

  8. Tom 7

    Sounds more like

    they've written it off conclusively in another mass range.

  9. Pete 2 Silver badge

    And then what?

    Once CERN does announce its discovery of the Higgs - either soon or at some time in the future, what do all the researchers do after that?

    Do all the physicists just pack up their bags, have the Big Bang of all leaving parties and wend their various ways, or do they scramble to come up with a new theory in order to secure future funding to keep themselves and their teams in employment.

    Discovering a new fundamental particle is all very nice: don't get me wrong. But this seems to be the final part of the Standard Model. After it's been caught I can just imagine all the non particle-physicists saying "OK, they'd got THE ANSWER, now we need loads of megabucks to continue our work in our field, since these guys have now finished doing their stuff."

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Not everyone is working on Higgs discovery analyses. There are loads more research activities at the LHC (SUSY, extra dimensions, black holes, quark-gluon plasma, precision B physics, 4th generation matter, ...) and elsewhere at CERN (those pesky neutrinos, kaons, ...) along with higher-level application of applied beams (biology, engineering, ...)

    2. This post has been deleted by its author

    3. mhoulden
      Devil

      Once they've found the God particle they can look for the less pious and far more entertaining Satan particle.

      1. Big-nosed Pengie

        While the God particle creates mass, the Satan particle creates sin. And snakes.

        1. Field Marshal Von Krakenfart
          Joke

          The devil is in the detail

          However, the two experiments are only seeing the god particles at 2.5 to 3.5 stigmata

          (the measure of deity statistical certainty).

    4. Peter Ford
      Go

      Once they have THE ANSWER...

      ... then they need to start looking for THE QUESTION, obviously.

    5. Pete the not so great
      Pint

      You won't say that when your're going to work via wormhole

  10. JeffyPooh
    Pint

    "...a mass in the range of prediction at 125 GeV..."

    When the value is finally nailed down, it'll turn out to be precisely 137.035999074 GeV. Why? Because God has a weird sense of humour...

    1. Anonymous Coward
      FAIL

      To the clot-head that downvoted the parent

      To the clot-head that downvoted the parent: you should learn a bit about physics before expressing your opinion on it. The joke is that 137.035999074 is (roughly) the fine structure constant, relating mass and charge (to anybody who has a clue: forgive the babytalk, but realize what this post is addressed to).

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Thanks

        for explaining it... I was just about to hit teh intarwebs to work out what the number represented! :D

      2. Fred Flintstone Gold badge
        Facepalm

        I downvoted it..

        .. because I hate fractions. So there.

        (not really, but I figured you could do with some ribbing).

      3. Field Marshal Von Krakenfart
        Headmaster

        @David D. Hagood

        The current recommended value of the fine structure constant is 7.2973525698(24)×10−3 = 1/137.035999074(44).

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          @Field Marshall....

          Like I said, "baby talk". I didn't want to confuse the poor thing with the concept of fractions.

    2. fch
      Thumb Up

      Like, one over alpha ?

      There's enough evidence out there in the world that indicates God (existence assumed) likes to laugh (at) himself ;-)

    3. Red Bren
      Coat

      I don't want to start any blasphemous rumours

      I thought God had a sick* sense of humour?

      * This is not a good thing kids!

      1. Alpha Tony

        Well..

        ..He does spend his weekends burying fake giant lizard skeletons just to fuck with us. That's pretty messed up.

  11. Flugal

    'God particle'

    The name 'God particle' must be one of the biggest misnomers since 'Lord Adonis'.

    As many religious types like to believe almost anything is 'proof' of there being a super space fairy, no doubt finding this particle will be used to support the same theory, and the press perpetuating this misnomer doesn't help.

    1. Trainee grumpy old ****
      Unhappy

      RE: 'God particle'

      And the depressing thing is some eedjit somewhere is going to either:

      a) Use it as proof of "my imaginary friend is more powerful than your imaginary friend" OR

      b) Demand with extreme menace that it be named after his particular brand of imaginary friend.

      1. hplasm
        Coat

        That would make them...

        Higgs Bozos?

      2. Sir Runcible Spoon

        Sir

        The trouble with this reality is that the only thing you can bank on in terms of true meaning is self belief, the logical extension of 'I am, therefore I think'.

        The problem with this is that when people postulate increasingly insane theories to explain 'things', someone dingbat is likely to listen because they can't be arsed to do their own thinking.

        Everything in the known universe seems to be able to be expressed as some form of energy. Perhaps people project onto this sense of energy (there are obviously types and expressions of energy with which we are not yet familiar) with their sense of powerlessness and loneliness to create some form of being that 'is' this energy.

        We could all be arguing about the same thing, just perceived through the varying prisms of our own experience and delusions.

        Well, that's my delusion anyway :)

  12. LarsG

    GOD PARTICLE?

    Do you really want to p**s him off by finding it. Maybe its hidden for a reason?

  13. Max Sang
    Pint

    Splendid news

    Two bumps at the same mass from the two experiments is much more exciting than anything from one alone. A combined significance of 4 sigma or above is where particle physicists start to get properly excited, and the rumours are it may get somewhere close.

    And no, if it's there at about 125GeV then it's completely compatible with lots of supersymmetric theories, which may or may not start to show up when they analyse more data. Not to mention actually measuring the properties of the Higgs, and looking for it in other decay channels.

  14. Pirate Dave Silver badge
    Pirate

    Journalistic skills

    I realize I am American, but I thought I could read your English website until today. The first sentence begins with "Physicists". What are "physicists"? I take it they are some sort of sage researchers, but are they like witch-doctors? Or are they more like boffins? And no sign of the phrase "God particle-botherers"?

    I must admit I am at a loss to understand this story because of the highly unusual vocabulary it contains.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Journalistic skills

      We do like to keep you readers on your toes.

  15. Andus McCoatover
    Windows

    Lego?? Shurely you mean Playmobil.

    When the Large Hardon Collider does reproduce reliably, You can bet Lester will get his toys out from under the bed again!

  16. Blofeld's Cat
    Facepalm

    Shush

    I'd got a Higgs as a Christmas present for somebody, and now you've gone and let the cat out of the box.

    http://www.katzphur.co.uk/stories/hadron

  17. Grave

    dog particle

    should be called uber or epic particle or particle king or better yet:

    "One Particle to rule them all, One Particle to find them,

    One Particle to bring them all and in the darkness bind them"

    løl

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Brilliant..

      I was wondering what dyslexic scientists worked on..

      (I'm intermitted dyslexic myself, compensated by an approach to reading that is pattern based - kinda crap for learning new words but great for speed scanning).

  18. phuzz Silver badge
    Boffin

    The physicist in me is currently running around in circles going WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

    It's actually more exciting than christmas!

    1. M man

      really....

      im slightly disapointed. I was hoping they couldnt find it...just think of all the whcked out theories would be fighting for mainstream.

      this just means we are on the right path but somthings not quite right.

      personally the current theory just fails the occrims razor test for me.

      well they havent ACTULLY found it yet.

  19. Poeteye

    FEARFUL SYMMETRY

    (from Songs Of Experiments)

    -- James Ph. Kotsybar

    Beyond notice, out of sight

    in dimensions curled up tight,

    shall only weakened gravity

    suggest your supersymmetry?

    Do you match, sine qua non,

    boson to a fermion?

    Will you ever edify

    how the forces unify?

    In what quanta, small or large

    will we find your mass and charge?

    In what membranes do you roam?

    Which dimensions call you home?

    In magnetic chambers narrow,

    will you tell us of time’s arrow?

    Have you broken, in the past?

    How long do your components last?

    Quarks from gluons will divide

    when we make hadrons collide:

    Will this show us where you hide

    or leave us still unsatisfied?

    Beyond notice, out of site

    in dimensions curled up tight,

    will only highest energy

    reveal your supersymmetry?

  20. Poeteye

    UNPUBLISHED FINDINGS

    -- James Ph. Kotsybar

    They granulate the universe

    to pulp

    crashing particles only newly found.

    They figure their trajectories

    and gulp,

    “So much data upon which to expound!”

    Their energies

    unbound by quantum course,

    they separate the world

    we think we know.

    They rip particles into force

    by force.

    Unification’s where they say they’ll go.

    When, at last,

    they prove life is illusion,

    where do you think they’ll publish the result?

    They may just ascend beyond confusion

    and leave us in the lurch of the occult,

    for once that testimony’s imparted,

    expostulation just seems false-hearted.

  21. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    The Fox News headline:

    "God particle located"

    ergo:

    "Proof that god exists"

    1. Poeteye
      Happy

      This is very nearly a haiku.

  22. JeffyPooh
    Pint

    137.035999074 (or ...084?) derived from first principles:

    http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_GqLiIYV1FnA/TIr8eWeZgrI/AAAAAAAAB6U/RIiNR60WdvQ/s1600/HHGTTFSC.jpg

    Seriously.

  23. ottokrog

    What is sigma

    I would like to comment on the probability of a scientific discovery tuesday.

    Scientists measure their experiments by a term called sigma.

    There is no scientific discovery about a sigma 2.5 or 3.00 as probably will be the case on tuesday. Maybe even lower.

    If Newton were sitting under his appletree and made 100 observations, and in one instance the apple didn't hit him in the head, it is a sigma 2.5. A sigma 5.o is EVERY time that the apple falls down, and that includes doing it a million times and more.

    THAT is a scientific discovery.

    At sigma 3 the apple fals wrong one out of every 370 times you do the experiment. That is not a scientific discovery either.

    My prediction is that the Higgs particle never will reach close to a sigma 5.

    Behind the prediction there is a theory, if you are interested.

    Google crestroyer theory and find it or visit directly at

    http://crestroyertheory.com/the-theory/

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