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back to article Gnome cofounder: Desktop Linux is a CHERNOBYL of FAIL

Gnome project cofounder and current Xamarin CTO Miguel de Icaza says he's done wrestling with Linux on the desktop, and that he now uses Apple kit exclusively for all of his workstation needs. De Icaza is well known in the open source community for developing a number of client-side technologies for Linux, including the …

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  1. Destroy All Monsters Silver badge
    FAIL

    Guy leaves the rickety house he was instrumental in constructing, complains!

    Film at 11.

    Also, can he actually distinguish between "Three Miles Island" (the actual one, not the 'conspiracy, sky split, thousands and thousands dead') and "Chernobyl"? If not, time to get good with numbers.

    1 0
  2. cheveron

    As a Mac user I'm grateful for Linux

    I'm still using an 8-year-old Mac mini. Although it will run MacOS 10.5 I've stuck with 10.3 because it's not such a resource hog. However, I dual boot Debian. Most Linux distros seem to have downgraded PPC support, but Debian has not. Having Debian installed enables me to run modern software without having to buy new hardware.

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  3. Avatar of They
    Thumb Down

    Tool.

    So this article is by a man that helped create gnome which was good and is now pants. And then also complains linux doesn't work but helped create a lot of it.

    Surely then it is testament to him being crap at his job? We all have to suffer the poor iteration of Gnome because he prefers Apple?

    Wow, As CV's go I think I would avoid him based on past creations.

    Apple are bound to be better because they have the cash, it isn't open source and they are heavily limited to a hard ware platform. It is a no brainer, but then again you pay the earth and have to suck up the horrendous lock down.

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  4. goats in pajamas
    Mushroom

    Desktop Linux a failure?

    It is with shitheads like de Icaza on the scene.

    1 1
    1. Don Jefe
      Reply Icon

      Re: Desktop Linux a failure?

      Really? You didn't read all the posts above pointing out the real and significant issues that inhibit Desktop Linux? There's no reason to attack the man when the OS speaks for itself.

      2 7
  5. Miek
    Linux

    Well, it seems the Apple never falls that far from the tree after all.

    0 0
  6. shaolin cookie
    WTF?

    Mac

    I went rather the other way -- I was given a Mac at work, and tried to use that for development, somehow hoping that the Unix internals and Terminal would cut it. But for me it just doesn't. Try Python development on a Mac for example, such a pain of getting all the modules. So I promptly installed Kubuntu on it and happiness prevails. Apart from the crappy Apple mouse anyway.

    For generic desktop usage the Mac is fine, I suppose, although that depends on what you're used to. For me not being able to middle click to paste etc is a severe slow-down factor. But at least with virtual desktops and things that tend to actually work, Mac OS X is still miles ahead of Windows on desktop, albeit that's setting the bar pretty much as low as it gets.

    2 0
  7. g e
    Facepalm

    Perhaps he says this because

    He's still using Debian Sarge

    0 0
  8. TiddlyPom
    FAIL

    Miguel promotes proprietary software and should not be taken seriously by the FOSS world

    Considering that Miguel has been lauded by the .NET community and his company is selling development products for Mono (which is supposed to be cross platform) that won't even run on Linux or Free/OpenBSD I would not take any of his comments seriously. If he likes Apple Macs then good for him but I think his comments are irrelevent. I have developed on Windows (yes even including Windows 8), Apple OS/X (up to "Mountain Lion") and various Linux distributions (sorry BSD guys - I don't think your distros are any worse but just prefer Linux myself) and Ubuntu, Mint and RHEL/CentOS (which I use mostly) are excellent desktop operating systems to use on a daily basis. I am writing this on a Lenovo T410 running Ubuntu 12.04. Miguel just wants to put down the open source world and promote proprietary software which is what he is (mostly) involved with now.

    5 1
  9. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Hooray!

    Maybe he'll piss off and stop making a fucking mess of the Linux desktop forever. his comments here just underline how totally clueless he has been for as long as I can remember; he has no idea what users want in a desktop and thinks his own bafflement is a reflection of how baffled everyone else is when in fact it is only a reflection of how fucking stupid he is.

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    1. Don Jefe
      Reply Icon
      Meh

      Re: Hooray!

      Do you have any idea what users really want in a desktop OS? I think you are confusing what YOU want in desktop OS with what 'joe user' wants.

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      1. JEDIDIAH
        Reply Icon
        Linux

        Re: Hooray!

        > Do you have any idea what users really want in a desktop OS?

        Yes. Like many Linux users, I am the local unpaid PC support tech.

        Joe User more than anything doesn't want things to change. Joe User has finally gotten used to whatever it is that he has. He doesn't want Unity or Windows 8. He doesn't want MacOS either.

        MacOS isn't easier. It's just gratuitously different. It's also a little crippled.

        It's more of a departure than Linux while having nearly none of the stuff that runs on Windows.

        Been there. Done that.

        3 0
  10. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    "Computing-wise that three week vacation turned out to be very relaxing. Machine would suspend and resume without problem, WiFi just worked, audio did not stop working...."

    My windows machine also runs without issues...Machine would suspend and resume without problem, WiFi just worked, audio did not stop working.

    3 1
  11. J.G.Harston Silver badge
    Headmaster

    English language fail

    me ... had to use ...

    0 0
  12. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Insecurity?

    From the anger here I sense that some people are a bit insecure about their superior desktops.

    Anon, well I'm not fucking stupid

    0 2
    1. Destroy All Monsters Silver badge
      Reply Icon
      Trollface

      Re: Insecurity?

      Insecure about your name, anon?

      2 0
      1. Anonymous Coward
        Reply Icon
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Insecurity?

        Nope just can't be bothered with whinging bitches.

        BTW using Linux since 95, and the problem I have is it went from fast and small to bloated like a contestant on the Jeremy Kyle show (they are contestants aren't they)

        Still use Linux most days but usually as a VM, then again BSD and QNX (still) lurk in the background.

        Lets face it for most people Linux is NOT and not going to be their desktop OS, then again I would prefer not to choose Windows or OSX either as I don't really like them, just more tolerable than varying flavors of Linux, particularly when issues are encountered

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        1. Destroy All Monsters Silver badge
          Reply Icon

          Re: Insecurity?

          > bloated

          This can be changed by choosing an "unbloated" (by your standards) distro.

          The choice is yours.

          > Windows/OS X

          > more tolerable than varying flavors of Linux, particularly when issues are encountered

          Are you insane?

          1 0
  13. Steve Graham
    Go

    Me too

    My everyday computing experience is exactly like what de Icaza reports: "Machine would suspend and resume without problem, WiFi just worked, audio did not stop working, [...] without having to recompile the kernel to adjust this or that, nor fighting the video drivers, or deal with the bizarre and random speed degradation".

    That's Debian on... a Thinkpad.

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  14. John Smith 19 Gold badge
    Windows

    Lots of negative AC comments.

    <- Is he laying Astro turf ?

    1 0
    1. Destroy All Monsters Silver badge
      Reply Icon
      Trollface

      Re: Lots of negative AC comments.

      A wild RICHTO appears!

      2 0
  15. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Semi-tech

    My kids both have identical laptops. One stopped booting. Tried reinstalling Windows, hung mid process. Tried swapping hard drives, same error. Some sort of hardware fault that Windows couldn't deal with. So I tried Ubuntu, and it now works almost perfectly (no internal mic but meh). Love it.

    The trouble is there's too much choice. I'm not in a technical job, but my degree was engineering so I know a bit. However if I struggle with which distro might be best, and which might have all the relevant drivers, and how to set up parental controls etc etc, what's a complete novice going to feel?

    I've been using OS X since 2000, and it was great till about 2009 but it's now just bloatware. I'd love to switch to Linux but which one? And if I have trouble deciding, then the chap in the article is bang on.

    PS Please feel free to respond with suggestions of the best distro for a late 2011 MacBook Pro and also whether there is a slimmed down version of Ubuntu with all the same drivers which might speed up my daughter's laptop!!!

    1 1
    1. Uncle Slacky Silver badge
      Reply Icon
      Linux

      Re: Semi-tech

      Slimmed-down *buntus include Xubuntu, Lubuntu, Peppermint and Bodhi. Not sure which is best for the Pro, but Bodhi is probably the best for memory usage and power saving.

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    2. Vic
      Reply Icon

      Re: Semi-tech

      > However if I struggle with which distro might be best

      You don't need the "best" distro[1]. You need the one you like. If you've got something that works in the way you want it to, you've no need to change.

      If you *choose* to try other distros, there are plenty around with both proponents and detractors. Almost all of them can be tested without even having to install anything on your machine. If you find one you like better than the one you're using, change to it. If you don't want to be bothered trying out alternatives, don't.

      Vic.

      [1] Arguably, there cannot be such a thing, since we all have different preferences. Many will tell you that Ubuntu is the dog's danglies, but personally, I hate it with a passion. And we're all right, because we're all interested in slightly different things...

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  16. Fenton

    Consitency

    It all comes down to needs.

    I for one am glad that Linux has not won out on the desktop.

    I move from customer to customer. The one thing that is consistent is the desktop operating system I have to use. Either XP or Windows 7. If I had to deal with a different Linux distro every time, I'd waste alot of time getting to grips with the environment.

    Thankfully SuSE or Redhat have become the defacto Linux at the server end.

    I tried Linux at home using my family as my test subject. They didn't like the look and feel and my son couldn't play the games he likes to play. My daughter uses office at school and regularly has to do her homework in office. He hated Libre/openoffice. Also reliability was an issue, which was not the case with XP on the same machine.

    Now we also have a Mac. Yes we have the same problem with the games, but we have MS office on the Mac so daughter is happy. My wife likes the Mac (because it's shiny) and intuative and is more stable than either windows or the Linux distribution.

    I know people will say. You should have used, gnome or KDE or ........ Or you should have spent longer getting linux to work, tweaking the desktop. That is exactly what I don't want to do with a home machine.

    I want a consistent look and feel whereever I go. I deal with the differences between Unixes/Linux on the server end everyday.

    2 4
    1. JEDIDIAH
      Reply Icon
      Linux

      Re: Consitency

      > If I had to deal with a different Linux distro every time, I'd waste alot of time getting to grips with the environment.

      ...which would be GNOME or KDE on top and standard GNU userland underneath.

      Underneath it is so standardized that not only you can move from one Linux to another but from one Unix to another with very few inconsistencies to worry about.

      That's also handy for when MacOS doesn't live up to it's hype.

      2 0
  17. MacGyver
    Trollface

    Or said another way..

    "It's easier to make coffee in my coffee-maker than on the stove with a saucepan."

    Duh, Doy! Try making soup in your coffee-maker and see how that goes, or a cake for that matter.

    If all you ever do is eat-out and drink coffee than yes a coffee-maker is a better choice than a stove, for you, the rest of us have to cook our meals or maybe like tea.

    2 0
    1. JEDIDIAH
      Reply Icon
      Linux

      Re: Or said another way..

      > "It's easier to make coffee in my coffee-maker than on the stove with a saucepan."

      You will probably get a better result in the saucepan though. If you care about the result, you will go to the extra effort. That even applies to the coffee-maker and making sure that you use fresh beans and only grind them when you're actually ready to use them.

      Coffee is a perfect example of something that can be quickly destroyed by cutting corners.

      0 0
  18. Wilseus
    Facepalm

    What?

    I run Linux on a variety of machines both at home and at work and have rarely come across any problems of hardware not working and I don't recall ever having to recompile my kernel (not that doing so is remotely hard.)

    3 1
  19. HereWeGoAgain
    FAIL

    The thing is, he is right

    I've used Linux for about 15 years. I am used to a simple desktop. Long ago I had to recompile the kernel to get the sound card working. I have seen 1FPS refresh rates.

    GNOME and KDE are bloated, but that does not make them good. I know about dozens of other windows managers that "I can try", and have tried. None of them make Linux a pleasure to use on the desktop.

    apt is a pile of junk for a new user. apt-cache is a joke. Let's say I am a newLinux user and I want to install Firefox, if it is not already installed. I find out about apt-cache (no easy thing in the first place) and do a search for firefox. This is the crap I get:

    herewegoagain@craplinuxbox1:~$ apt-cache search firefox

    aptlinex - Web browser addon to install Debian packages with a click

    bookmarkbridge - tool to synchronize bookmarks between browsers

    firefox-sage - lightweight RSS and Atom feed reader for Firefox

    gnash-common-opengl - free SWF movie player - common files/libraries

    gnash-common - free SWF movie player - common files/libraries

    gnash-cygnal - free SWF movie player - Media server

    gnash-opengl - free SWF movie player

    gnash-tools - free SWF movie player - Command-line Tools

    gnash - free SWF movie player

    klash-opengl - free SWF movie player - standalone player for KDE

    klash - free SWF movie player - standalone player for KDE

    konqueror-plugin-gnash - free SWF movie player - Plugin for Konqueror

    mozilla-plugin-gnash - free SWF movie player - Plugin for Mozilla and derivatives

    gnome-do-plugins - Extra functionality for GNOME-Do launcher

    gnome-do - Quickly perform actions on your desktop

    gnome-launch-box - An application launcher for GNOME

    gplanarity - simple puzzle game involving untangling planar graphs

    gtkcookie - Editor for cookie files

    iceweasel-linky - iceweasel extension to handle web and image links

    iceweasel - lightweight web browser based on Mozilla

    mozilla-imagezoom - Mozilla context menu option to zoom current image

    iceweasel-itsalltext - Iceweasel extension to edit textareas using an external editor

    kerry - Beagle desktop search daemon frontend for KDE

    latex-xft-fonts - Xft-compatible versions of some LaTeX fonts

    libhtml-widgets-selectlayers-perl - Perl extension for selectable HTML layers

    mozilla-firefox-adblock - AdBlock extension for the Iceweasel and Iceape web browsers

    openoffice.org - OpenOffice.org Office suite

    pcmanfm-nohal - an extremely fast and lightweight file manager for X

    pcmanfm - an extremely fast and lightweight file manager for X

    peercast-handlers - P2P audio and video streaming handlers

    iceweasel-scrapbook - Iceweasel extension to save and manage Web pages

    squareness - suite of skins for different applications

    tinymce - platform independent web based Javascript/HTML WYSIWYG editor

    tinymce2 - platform independent web based Javascript/HTML WYSIWYG editor

    mozilla-plugin-vlc - multimedia plugin for web browsers based on VLC

    libmozjs-dev - Development files for the Mozilla SpiderMonkey JavaScript library

    libmozjs1d-dbg - Development files for the Mozilla SpiderMonkey JavaScript library

    libmozjs1d - The Mozilla SpiderMonkey JavaScript library

    xulrunner-1.9-dbg - Development files for the Gecko engine library

    xulrunner-1.9 - XUL + XPCOM application runner

    xulrunner-dev - Development files for the Gecko engine library

    Do I need all this crap? There's not even an application called firefox! Is it p

    art of Openoffice? You tell me.

    I use Linux and UNIX at work because that is what I do. I use a Mac for personal

    reasons, because that is my choice.

    1 7
    1. M Gale
      Reply Icon

      Re: The thing is, he is right

      Alternatively, start up synaptic or your favourite GUI package manager and search for "Firefox". That's if it doesn't come as the default browser for your distribution anyway.

      A "new user" isn't going to be using the terminal, are they? Or does a new Windows user start to learn how to do things via cmd.exe and regedit?

      8 0
    2. Anonymous Coward
      Reply Icon
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: The thing is, he is right

      this is ridiculous misrepresentation - first, find a linux distro that doesn't have firefox. If you need it and it isn't there, it's in the distro repository, so click on install software, and pick internet. Then click on firefox. Click on install.

      I guess that's too complex for you guys, but I can cope with the arcane complexities of it

      1 0
    3. MacGyver
      Reply Icon
      Holmes

      Re: The thing is, he is right

      Easy fix for devs (assuming you're not on some seldom used mirror), just add a # of times downloaded, and give the option to sort by popular. Leverage the crowd.

      You could fix the problem of each mirror having it's own stats, by asking mirrors to upload their stats to a central repository or have the repository pull those stats daily (they may already do this, I have no idea).

      That's the greatness of OpenSource, you don't have to wait until program manager finally fixes a problem, you can pull down the source and do it yourself if you're so inclined.

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      1. M Gale
        Reply Icon

        Re: The thing is, he is right

        "Easy fix for devs (assuming you're not on some seldom used mirror), just add a # of times downloaded, and give the option to sort by popular. Leverage the crowd."

        What would also be nice would be two flags on each package. One for "program", one for "library", and packages can be one, the other or both. Right now, searching (for instance) for games in Linux brings up a whole load of supporting libraries as well. It's a little like doing a search in the Windows 8 store and coming up with stuff like direct3d.dll all mixed up with the games themselves. If I'm developing something I might be interested in downloading lib-something-whatever-devel, but otherwise, let the end-products decide which dependencies to download and hide them from the user unless requested.

        Oh my word, did I just criticize the Holy PenguinOS? How unlike me (according to some).

        1 0
  20. Carl

    Its all about familiarity

    Ive been using Linux since 1996 and I currently use Xubuntu12 and Suse12.

    I find the desktop fine to use and so do my many friends who I have installed Xubuntu for when they finally reached the end of their ropes with Windows.

    Whenever I've used MacOSX my personal view has been that its a mountain of suck.

    Each to their own.

    5 0
  21. Anonymous Coward
    FAIL

    Once a troll

    Always a troll. Linux users don't care what a Microsoft employed shill has to say, about anything, let alone Linux.

    3 1
  22. Ian Johnston Silver badge
    Thumb Down

    Talking of desktop clusterfucks

    Which project was it which decided to dump an established and generally well-like user interface just for the lulz and the fun of writing Yet Another Crappy Almost Tablet Interface (YACATI)? Why, that would be Gnome, that would.

    3 0
  23. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Apples version of "I'm going to Disney Land" pitch

    This guy comes off as a tool whose unable to get any Linux OS running.

    I guess Apple's thrown some money his way or the guys looking for a job.

    I've used Ubuntu and have had zero problems setting it up or using it. I do use Windows regularly myself, just because it's what I use for work.

    3 0
    1. Anonymous Coward
      Reply Icon
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Apples version of "I'm going to Disney Land" pitch

      I guess Apple's thrown some money his way or the guys looking for a job.

      Looking for a job I guess. MicroSoft have shitcanned .NET and Silverlight, so his incomplete clone isn't gonig to find any takers, and Novell have probably made it clear they see point in funding it any longer.

      4 0
  24. zanshin

    So commercial interfaces don't change, eh?

    I don't want to ride this too hard, but I'm pretty curious about some of the complaints about how Linux distros apparently constantly change paradigms like how to copy/paste, drag and drop and the "File" menu bar. If you're talking about a user who struggles with mapping those things across new OS variants, surely you're not using that as a defense of commercial OSes? Yes, their change cycle is a lot slower than that of Linux in general, but Apple has radically changed their OS's user interface several times. They're also mildly notorious for making new OS versions incompatible with software from previous versions. Microsoft has tended to be more stable in terms of both interface and software backwards compatibility, but they aren't completely unknown for interface shifts that are crippling to folks who struggle with basic computer operations. Windows 8's interface-formerly-known-as-Metro is a wild departure for folks who know how to use Windows XP or 7 based mostly on rote. And even before that, things like the Office Ribbon interface was severely disruptive to non-computer-savvy folks I know. (Hell, it was disruptive to savvy folks, too.)

    If you're dealing with folks like this, you don't change their OS unless you absolutely have to. Odds are, they aren't installing their own OS regardless - they're getting it shipped on a PC or having friends or family do it for them. That means the glut of variants of Linux and the deep vagaries of configuring the OS (any OS, not just Linux) are basically non-issues. If it breaks, someone else is likely going to fix it anyhow.

    And if they're actually more capable computer users than that, major distro Linux installs from, say, 2008 and on are not that different from the one you get with Windows, and for the last few years they actually come with good device drivers for mainstream video and sound devices.

    Is Linux awesome for "normal users", if such a thing exists? Probably not. Are the major distros nearly as bad as some commentators here seem to suggest? Not by a long shot.

    1 0
    1. W.O.Frobozz
      Reply Icon

      Re: So commercial interfaces don't change, eh?

      Ahh but this ignores one major thing: It was Miguel's GNOME project that decided to COMPLETELY ignore 30+ years of unwritten UNIX GUI setups.

      You see, in most cases, UNIX GUI stuff had always had "File..." blah blah blah. No it wasn't a written standard and yes, there were rival toolkits like Athena that looked different. And then came Motif, which was the closes thing to a "style guide" UNIX had. By and large the Motif way of doing it had been around FOR EVER. YES it was like Microsoft, but in actuality it was Microsoft conforming to the CUA interface standard...and Motif conformed to it as well. In UNIX-land it was, by and large, a "OK, Cancel" world.

      But that wasn't GOOD enough for Miguel and his group. They created a dripping love letter to Jef Raskin in the form of the "GNOME HIG" which basically specified the exact opposite of everything that was "almost standard" on UNIX everywhere. "OK, Cancel" was flipped around to be exactly Mac-like. "Preferences" items were moved under "File" and so on. It wouldn't have been so bad if it was confined to GNOME, but the GTK+ people decided to make the GNOME HIG their default as well. So then you had the REALLY FUN experience of KDE/Qt apps giving you "OK, Cancel" and GNOME/Gtk crap doing the exact opposite.

      And so there you have the reason why the usual Linux desktops are a FUCKING MESS: Miguel and the GNOME project.

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      1. JEDIDIAH
        Reply Icon
        Linux

        Re: So commercial interfaces don't change, eh?

        > And so there you have the reason why the usual Linux desktops are a FUCKING MESS: Miguel and the GNOME project.

        JWZ is the same way. His interfaces are the sort of train wreck he likes to complain about.

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  25. marcus777
    Meh

    Miguel is biased obviously

    Miguel's obvious bias makes this a non-news item. He has some sour grapes, and I'm not saying I blame him, but he is not what you would call a primary source here.

    When folks claim that the linux desktop is a failure they mean many things, not one of which is that it is REALLY failing. Millions of people use it daily to do all kinds of work... myself included. The linux desktop is a grand success on a veritable plethora of distos.

    What most folks mean is that they have not (as yet) figured out how to leverage huge $$$ from the desktop, or they mean that they have not (as yet) learned how to control linux users from their desktops, or they mean that (in Miguel's case) they aren't getting their way at the moment considering the linux desktop.

    For the record, I'm also using the evil FreeBSD derivative (mas OSX) for some of my work... I like it, really. But, I also use my linux machines (many of them, by the way) to do most of my work. I like linux too. The problem with Miguel (and his opinion) is that he didn't get his way and he's in a pout. Big deal.

    Frankly, I don't believe him. He's just not believable on this one.

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  26. Daniel B.

    Icaza has a point.

    A couple of years ago, one of my hardcore Linux friends switched back to Windows for the same reasons: hacking around for WiFi, graphics card, sound, and well that mucking with Office files with OpenOffice will fuck up the format.

    And then, I had the same issue this December; I needed a work lap, but also MS Office, OmniGraffle, Merlin and those are Win/Mac or Mac only. Of course, I went for Mac as any other lap would pay the MS tax which I didn't want to do.

    I do acknowledge that Linux has been user-friendly for quite some time, and even user-install-friendly as of late, with WiFi finally being supported out of the box. But it still gets hobbled by stupidity, like "no mp3 playback" and Adobe has recently stated they're no longer going to upgrade the Linux Flash plugin. I've demoted Linux to VM status on my Mac, though my main PC at home still has Linux and does a lot of the geeky stuff I want it to do. But as a desktop OS? Maybe, if I were to work in a 100% Linux shop. And even in some of those, I've seen people have windows as a VM...

    Oh, and the irony: Miguel de Icaza was the Mexican champion on IT circles. A lot of Mexicans started doing Linux just because a prominent Mexican had got into the international limelight, and he was doing some stuff for Linux...

    1 5
  27. W.O.Frobozz

    Kindly piss off, Miguel

    The "linux desktop" is a mess precisely because of YOU, MIGUEL. I still remember the fucking mess that you and RedHat made with your godawful Gnome desktop back in the early days. In your desperate effort to "catch up" to KDE the 0.33 version of GNOME jumped magically overnight to "1.0"...and we all should remember what an unstable bloated mess that was.

    But typical of your A.D.D. nature, you couldn't even stick with one thing. You jumped from GNOME to Evolution, and then dumping that to run off to play copycat with Microsoft's Java ripoff. Have you actually seen ANYTHING through to the end? Don't expect the Mac world to embrace you with open arms.

    It's funny that for an asshat who made the most noise about Qt's license he spends most of his time openly admiring the worst offender when it comes to licensing and "intellectual property": Microsoft.

    And the FSF doesn't get off unscathed either. Prior to Miguel's KDE ripoff, the FSF had declared WindowMaker + GNUstep to be their "official desktop." Imagine if all the effort that went into Gnome had instead gone into GNUstep. We could have anticipated the future and had easy cross-compatibility with Mac OS X (nee NeXTStep) and really given Microsoft a run for their money. Stallmen might call Miguel a "traitor" but he needs to remember stabbing GNUstep in the back.

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  28. exanime
    WTF?

    WHAT????

    I've been using Linux for about 6 years (last year I even convinced my boss to let me try it at work so now I work 100% on Linux at home and work) with various Debian friendly distros (debian, ubuntu, mint) and several desktops (lxde, xfce, unity, cinnamon, MATE, etc)... and I have NEVER experienced the crap this guy is talking about... (and I haven't even tried the absolute rock solid distros out there that more experienced Linux people rave about)

    I have found maybe once or twice a wireless card that won't work but if it works it works, never intermittent connectivity, never problems suspending/resuming (as I use to in Windows), never losing audio, never weird slowness... I run a file, media, upnp, mpd server at home... when my "office" pc died I decided to spawn a virtual machine (ubuntu server host, kubuntu desktop) which I access from my chinese knock-off andriod tablet or my TV whenever I need to use a full desktop and I have NEVER experience any "weird" behavior... when things don't work it is because I failed so set something up or because some hardware died...

    I am a normal, perhaps mid-level computer dude (no wizard but not a total noob either) so I find it extremely hard to believe I find my Linux Desktop experience satisfying while this more involved, presumably more skilled dev was struggling... I have even convinced my less experienced friends to switch, some of them still don't know what Linux is and they often thank me for "fixing" their computers

    ...maybe this guy is fishing for a job at Apple now that he has been laid off

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    1. ecofeco Silver badge
      Reply Icon

      Re: WHAT????

      Same here.

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  29. another alepot
    Thumb Down

    Macs are a rich man's toy

    Macs are fine if you're either rich or prepared to be a (software) thief. I'm neither, so I'll stick with linux, thanks very much, like i have done since I ditched Windows about 10 years ago,.

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    1. Anonymous Coward
      Reply Icon
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Macs are a rich man's toy

      The thriving resale market for Macs makes them arguably less expensive to own than PCs with much lower initial purchase prices. I have owned many Macs and PCs... it's very easy to get half or more of a Mac's MSRP back when reselling it, whereas with PCs, you're lucky to get anything at all.

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      1. JEDIDIAH
        Reply Icon
        Linux

        Re: Macs are a rich man's toy

        I expect to use a PC until it's obsolete.

        At that point, I would feel GUILTY getting a kings ransom for it when it really isn't warranted.

        I would be EMBARRASED at the idea you are describing.

        If you're starting in with "resale value" then you've completely lost the argument.

        I am not a trivium merchant.

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