Hey people MS have an "ecology" to support

Of trainers, marketers, hardware suppliers and re-sellers.

Their business model pretty much *demands* they break the *whole* UI every few years

And a regular set of incompatible changes to the Office file formats helps as well.

I some time wonder if companies *really* factored in the whole cost of these (and the *regularity* of them) if they might consider dumping MS wholesale and setting up 1 PC with Office scripted to load any files in a queue coming into the company to spit them out in ODF format.

The thing I can't get is that having spent *years* learning how to do proper multi-tasking rather than switching MS is going back to the put-it-to-sleep model. Is there *any* choice in this?

It's several steps back

I'm sorry but the new UI is just terrible. I went in willing to give it a shot (which I'm sure some of the zealots won't believe) but nothing is intuitive. I stumbled around and had to force several shutdowns before find how to switch apps or even worse how to safely power it down. The likes of OS X may seem prehistoric but I went from being a windows user to slipping into the likes of both OS X and Ubuntu with a few minor blips to do with more advanced stuff. I don't feel like I have a clue what I'm doing with Metro.

On top of that most of the Metro apps require signing into a Windows Live account. I don't do that crap on my day to day OSes and I'm not about to start now.

Snow Leopard user here as I wasn't exactly enamoured with Lion.

It could have been something really interesting but instead it's just a mess. I fail to see how new users are meant to simply pick it up (something I did with iOS as an example). Maybe it works better with a touch interface but don't make it a desktop OS then.

Metro meltdown

I've actually taken the plunge and dropped this on a rig unfortunate enough to be chosen for the test subject (because the last OpenSUSE Factory update rendered it unbootable).

Biggest mistake I've made so far.

Not only does certain more stubborn drivers refuse to install (I'm looking at you, HP, VIA and Creative!), the darn thing is just so broken that calling this a beta is an overstatement. For example, Firefox is extremely unstable with hardware acceleration on (and I am using the NVidia drivers as suggested by Nvidia themselves).

We're not talking about that tho, we're talking about how broken Metro is.

Ah, yes. Metro. It's so broken that some things just doesn't make sense. For example, if I choose to use a touchscreen, since I do have a nice Acer multitouch display around (one that was reviewed on El Reg two years ago no less), how do i call out the Metro UI from the desktop? Is there a gesture I can use? Tapping the bottom-left corner of the screen does nothing. Same goes for quitting a metro app- apparently the only way to initiate a quit is to reach for the keyboard and hit Alt-F4.

Also, how many people actually went out and buy a touchscreen like I did?

MS needs to take Win8 back to the drawing board. Certain places are impossible to use with a touchscreen, and certain places are impossible to use without. Heck, it seems that the best way to use Win8 is by good ol' keyboard.

I'm sure someones already said this

but it just looks like the Applications view on Gnome 3(except worse). Of course if I don't lke it, as a Debian user I can choose between many window managers & UI's. I'm sure you can do the same with Win8.... Oh sorry, you can't.

Small business users are going to love this....not

I've played with vista when it came out. I didn't like it. Slow loads, memory hog, constant busy icon. Windows 7 was a bit better. But again, memory hog. In all of this, I noticed that windows is degrading over time to "joe moron" mode. Things that were granular in windows 2K and XP now have become simple icons with basic on/off or yes/no features under vista and 7. Are users getting dumber as the years pass?

Great article

Great article. An island in an ocean of media insanity.

Seems that the media (and Microsoft) are still writing for a time when 80% of the people still had to get acqainted with computers.

Consistency?

I think all would be well if everything was more consistent.

There's 3 main bits of Windows 8 as far as I'm concerned;

Desktop

Start (metro home)

Apps <-- this needs to be easier to find and access

Have a universal toggle button to switch between modes, keep notifications on screen in the same place all the time (battery, wifi, battery etc) and keep common / open apps in a bar on the screen all the time - regardless of the mode (similar to task bar). Certainly don't hide everything - keep some stuff on the screen and make it consistent.

Unfortunately I think I've just described iOS or MacOS. And I'm not even an Apple fanboi.

There's still time to change, but I'll be passing on this as it stands

This review hits home for me. It's not how Metro looks, and it's not just that it's different. If this review is accurate, what I dislike is that it takes more motion/clicking/typing to do the same things. I can deal with that, here and there, but as a standard approach to the interface? No thanks.

I'm not a "typical" computer user. I do lots of different things with my PCs, I frequently tinker with settings, and I like the things I do often to be simple, readily accessible and happen with minimal fuss. So far, the Metro approach looks set to fail me unless I'm checking Facebook or the like. Making basic things simpler is good. Making everything else more complicated at the same time is not so good.

Sadly, I see this sort of direction as an outgrowth of the buzz that suggests that smartphones and tablets are going the death of personal computing using full-on computers. That view seems to be creating a rush to "dumb down" *all* interfaces (not just at MS) to those appropriate to such devices. The issue is that those devices are oriented very strongly at content consumption. There are things about making content consumption simpler which are well and good - after all, that's how *most* people will do, and we certainly do consume things on PCs as well. But somewhere, someone needs to be building the content that those smartphones and tablets consume. Making the OS interfaces for such people be a pain in the derriere isn't a very compelling way to get them to produce goods for your OS or app store.

In his opinion pieces, Matt Asay likes to say how developers are the new king makers. It might be wise for folks like MS to build a castle the kingmakers will actually like to visit, lest they plant their kings somewhere else.

It shouldn't be a Desktop OS, that's what's wrong.

Microsoft are cheapskates. Windows 8 is a cellphone gui, and possibly (though not necessarily) suitable even for touch pad computing. For the desktop, its totally inappropriate. If they wanted a better Windows they should have written the very best they could do FOR THE DESKTOP. I hope they come unstuck over this, because they're taking the P out of the customers by trying to fob us off with rubbish!

Thanks for a sane review

I was downloading the preview and then I read your article and I realized the echo chamber was in action and cancelled it. That kind if interface for a PC is a step in the wrong direction for sure. I do hope they will strip out the fluff and call it Windows 7.5?

Bad bad bad bad bad...

You forgot to disable comments.

Or did you feel like it was safe on this one since most people would agree with you for once?

Really?

For sure there are problems with new Metro UI as there is with every single software out there. But I have a suggestion for you, before writing an article about such a huge software try to see if there a way to do the stuff you are compaining about.

I think you were despratly looking for some issues to complain about. The unwanted tiles? just remove them if you don't use them, were you using every icon on the start menu before?

You don't like the new way to switch between apps? fine use Alt+Tab, if you've watched the consumer preview conference you'd know that the new one is designed for tablets and navigating with thumbs. There's no bluetooth? That's because your laptop is not designed for windows 8 ask the OEM for drivers. Could you install windows 7 on a 2002 laptop without needing new drivers?

I don't think that I need to continue.

I want to like Windows 8, I really do. I'm a big windows fan, and would love to run the same OS on all my devices, PC's, laptops and especially tablets (but with a different UI obviously). But right now I agree with the people who say Win 7 will be the new XP and Win 8 the new Vista.

For me, the problem is not just the new UI, but the half baked overall product strategy.

We have an x86 version which uses the touch interface as default, despite the fact there is hardly any touch hardware in the market with the x86 architecture. So the "desktop version" is using the tablet UI which doesn't add much value (maybe it takes a bit away - full screen apps are useless on high res monitors). But at least we have the Legacy Desktop and the vast windows software ecosystem.

So basically this is traditional windows with some (perhaps needless) complexity on top. Limited incentive to upgrade.

Then there's windows on ARM which will run on the hardware that supports the Touch UI and let it shine, but it will not support any of the legacy applications, even recompiled - they must be rewritten as Metro apps, with all that entails. I think it's safe to say less than 5% of windows programs will be rewritten (of course new apps will come out).

So this is the new Tablet Windows but without the ecosystem it needs (heck without any ecosystem yet) to compete with iOS and Android. Hardly any incentive to buy!

Basically there's just one dream scenario for windows 8 which is: "Transformer type" x86 laptops with detachable touch screens that can run metro in tablet mode and desktop in "dock mode" (mouse & keyboard). Let's not forget these also need to have the performance of a core i5 with 4GB RAM (to make running windows apps productive) BUT combined with decent weight and amazing battery life by x86 standards.

You can expect these machines to hit the shelves in 2014. Maybe.

Until then, This is not the "single OS for every platform" that MS said they were aiming for.

It's two OS's that have an innovative UI but in practical terms offer the worst value for every platform they run on.

Seriously, the product strategy guy should be fired. Now.

Actually, I quite like it.

I was disorientated at first, but I'm loving it. Installed on my G73 laptop. No touchscreen. Got all my shortcuts sorted, Learned a few hotkeys.

Finding apps is just as easy. It's not like I ever actually scrolled down the list of "all programs anyway"...I simply type a few letters...exactly the same as you can now do on the metro desktop, it brings up search and a list of matches.

initial impressions

i have to say, some of the FUD thats going around about how bad this is it quite amazing, some of the issues that have been reported are just not there unless you actively go out of your way to make it like that. which is a little odd way of doing things if you ask me.

So far ive not had any issues on a desktop with old and new programs, there are a lot of metro app issues that need sorted out but hopefully that will come with development.

As it stands, is it useable? absolutely providing you take in to account a couple of things, i dont like the lack of start button in desktop mode, and for the life of me i cant see why they couldnt enable that start menu on desktop, it is after all decades of development on previous versions, Im still finding it hard getting around the OS but that should come with time. They have taken the People Hub from Windows phone and made a right mess out of it, but again, ive passed that feedback back and how it can be improved so hopefully if others do the same rather than uninstall it after 10 min and give nothing back, this may get fixed.

I honestly cant see anything that makes it unusable, but lack of start menu and thus desktop clutter will get to me on desktop mode.There are also some driver issues which isnt really Microsofts fault

You can customize the tiles quite well, but i want people groups like in WP7.

Music, pics and vids all integrated very well, tried a few apps on the app store which installed without issue and they look pretty funky. My programs from Win 7 have all installed without any issues at all. Which isnt supprising given that windows IS STILL THERE!

The only thing that i can see is definitely going to piss some folk off is the lack of start menu in desktop mode, everything else is all there and better / quicker than before! you dont need to leave desktop if you dont want too and metro is there if you need it for a snap shot of your live tiles.

Im going to hazard a guess that many of the folk complaining about this havent used it, or removed it before they gave it a chance.

One thing i will say is that this is going to create a lot of training issues in the workplace, it is all there but its not always easy to work it out when you first start, this i can see being a big issue

So there you have it, several small issues and 2 big ones.

If it had media centre on it id continue to use it everyday but alas it doesnt so that isnt an option but i shall continue to use this as much as possible because i think thats the only way to get used to it, and once again, IF its like WP7, once i do get the hang of it i will probably end up liking it

use the feedback option folks, dont just moan about it, actually contribute something and be the beta tester that you ASKED to be :)

ftw!

in the beginning change is a pain but it has to change and i think it has changed for the better only. how about using windows 8 on tv with kinect!

I like the idea of live metro tiles on the desktop but after playing with both releases I feel this is going to be a disaster, usability has plummeted and without a switch to return to classic start menu, the majority of users will be returning new machines or pre-ordering them with Windows 7.

Windows 8 is looking like the new Vista - And if the rumours are true about Google creating a desktop mode for Android 5.0 Jellybean (by killing and blending Chrome OS) then Microsoft are going to be in real trouble.

Even Apple

who are notorious for their control freakery allow you to turn off the crap you don't like on Lion - such as unnatural scrolling et. al.

And normally so do Microsoft - you could even set Windows 7 so it looked like an old XP installation. However, it seems that in W8 they're forcing you to stay in the Metro UI without tinkering under the hood to find an obscure registry entry.

It really is a recipe for disaster for Microsoft. They *really* need to put a very obvious way to turn off the Metro UI and make it look like a start menu (i.e. make it optional rather than imposing it onto the unwary user) otherwise I know most corporates just won't roll it out - the retraining costs for W7 is bad enough - this will be way too much of a change and a step too far for most large corporates to stomach. (Hell - that's why most of us are still on XP!)

In a time when corporate IT training budgets are lower than the budget for tea bags, it's something that will just be sidelined.

It could even be a serious blessing in disguise for Apple, as it will sadly give the serial IT-Dept bothering wannabe Mac Adopters more ammunition to justify the shiny shiny Macbook Air they so crave.

Let sleeping Apps lie?

Apss don't have a natural way of being shut down. Right click produces no response and there are no close buttons. Apparently Microsoft feels that the apps should simply be left sleeping.

With all their files locked ...

And then what about apps that have a limited number of concurrent logins?

I guess Win8 isn't destined for the business market. I just cannot see any corporate, even Microsoft, rolling this out as it stands.

I probably should have guessed that when I saw metro. Imagine a someone capturing a 200 page document from a touch screen, or running Development Studio via a touch screen.

Metro should be optional

I couldn't agree more with the article.

I love Metro on my WP7.5 HTC.

It doesn't work on the desktop of working users. Microsoft hasn't proved at all that Metro is better than classic desktop and indeed as the article shows it seems quite inadequate.

Either MS develops use-cases that truly benefit from Metro or please let us deactivate Metro or use it in a surf-the-web-eat-potato-chips-profile.

Metro as a gimmick on Windows to help sell WinPhones is ok but there's a limit to inconvenience.

It's sh*t. It's Vista all over again!

I hate the new UI. Why do I need the entire screen to turn into a jumbled wall of tiles?

Why can't I press the Windows key and start typing the name of the app or executable and then press enter to run it? Give me the Win7 Start menu any day.

The UI is massively disappointing and unproductive for power users. This is another Vista in the making. I pay anually for Windows licenses and there's no way I'll be "upgrading" any of my machines.

It's sh*t. It's Vista all over again!

Yup, it's change for the sake of change, (and vendor lock-in). WinMe3 is on it's way! (Many of Win7's best "improvements" were Vista "features" disabled.) Some of the nuts and bolts have been improved - but... meh. The server side file system has another layer of features bolted on, defragging is STILL required, etc..., more useless Window dressing, (Under Dressing this time - though it's early), - unless all you really want is a tablet, or a phone with near absolute vendor lock-in, (and fees), and enough substantive changes to require MAJOR rewrites by Win9.

Even my 81 year old Mother prefers something stable and easy to use like Debian/KDE based MEPIS. I couldn't drag her back to Windows - and won't bother to try!

Metro UI, why? It's the money money money

Why is Metro UI forced in Win8? For a similar reason it is the new interface on Xbox 360.

On 360 it's all about the advertising, and an additional revenue stream from all those Xbox gamers' eyeballs. It's the money.

On Win8 Metro programs can only be purchased from Microsoft's app store, and Microsoft take 30% of price. This doesn't affect "desktop" programs (yet), but certainly does affect tablets that are Metro only and those users who will buy things like 'Cut the Rope'. Again, it's the money.

I am amazed that El Reg readers aren't more vocal about Metro apps only being available from Microsoft's store.

the new logo too

Actually, while we're at it, I've suddenly realized that I hate the new Windows logo too.

The old one, like the old UI, was fine. Maybe even "great".

The new one would be good for a company just starting out, and could only afford one for $5.

What is going on there in Redmond ? Is there something in the water over there ?

So true.....

I spent half a day this weekend trying this POS.

First problem. It's come up with a 4:3 1024x768 resolution in the VM I put it in and won't let me change it to any widescreen resolutions. Bit of a bitch that, seeing as the UI is quite obviously built for 16:9 and is a total dog in 4:3.

Second problem. How the fuck are you supposed to find anything? To call Metro "Byzantine" would credit the Byzantines with levels of unneccessary complexity they never posessed. Simple in presentation, but if you want to get at anything underneath it's like the whole O/S is screaming "Fuck Off" at you while you attempt to navigate it.

So you can get the standard desktop up, so far so good. Unfortunately it lacks a start menu. Well done MS! You have successfully taken the "one legged man in an arse-kicking contest" concept and made it into a UI!

How can the same company that was responsible for the intuitive miracle of Se7en produce this?

Look MS. I'm not bothered by your app store, I don't give a rat's arse about Facebum or Tw@tter and you can stick Windows Live where the sun shineth not. In the light of that, please explain what the fucking point of the new desktop is?

I'll persist with it, but I remember when Se7en was at the same stage it actually did produce the odd "Wow" when I tried it. Best 8 has managed so far is 30 seconds between "WTF?"s.....

don't worry

Me and my non IT friends who have played with and seen this are very impressed.

Maybe the critics should take a step back from what they're used to. All feedback is useful though, if expressed in a helpful and constructive, rather than 'WTF' way. Pretty much demonstrates the emotional reaction of someone, rather than an objective one.

Go for it Microsoft - innovate. We like it.