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back to article Anti-religious campaigners smack down census Jedis

First signs that the purity of census results may be swayed by internet campaigning emerged this week, as the Twittersphere declared itself opposed to Jediism. Elsewhere, Jewish organisations were urging people to put themselves down as Jewish, in order to increase pressure for more Jewish faith schools. Earlier this week, as …

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  1. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Something has always bugged me about religion

    and that is the idea of Heaven. The idea being that if you follow whatever arbitrary set of rules the priests tell you then you will achieve eternal life. Now just think about that in context:

    Eternity by definition never ends which would give you the time to do absolutely everything that it is possible to do, learn everything it is possible to learn, meet everyone you ever wanted to meet and explore the whole of space and time from beginning to end. As you no longer have a physical body the options are truly staggering - swimming in a supernova anyone?

    But then what?

    After you have done everything for the Nth time and you already know everything what is left? You still have no end to your eternal life. I would imagine that the attraction of living forever would wear off once you have been doing the same things over and over again for a few hundred millennia. Even the most exciting of pastimes becomes normal, even boring if you do them often enough how bored will you get when there is literally nothing left that you haven't done and you know it will never end? No wonder that people used to think the Gods played games with the lives of men; it was to stave off the boredom for a little while.

    As I'm here, this whole 'God loves you' bit bothers me as well. As a parent, if my child disobeys my rules my thoughts have never once turned to casting them into a pit of flames to suffer indescribable pain and torment for all eternity to teach them a lesson. Bit harsh isn't it? Even in the old Gods stories, those who banished their children for whatever reason would relent after a while and invite them back to Olympus or Valhalla or wherever and embrace them as a parent.

    Maybe you religious types should really have a long hard think about what you want to happen after you die. Which is better? A never ending existence worshipping God and telling him how great he is or accepting that there should be a time where you have to end. Before you blindly just think heaven actually try to understand the concept of eternity, really think about all that time stretching out before you with no possibility of an end.

    Before you think I am a pessimist just looking forward to death, I love life. I live it to the full and plan on clinging to it for as long as possible. I feel grateful that a random sequence of events managed to put me here to enjoy everything and the Earth is truly an amazing place. However, wanting to live an incredibly long time and wanting eternity are entirely two different things. Eternity just sounds like Hell.

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    1. Scott Broukell
      Reply Icon

      Rather Ironically ...

      I thought that science predicted the distinct possibility of eternity as well. Not eternity in the manner of a human souls continuity as outlined above. But rather that entropy would finally result in all the matter in the universe one day turning into an absolutely uniform particle soup, with no obvious beginning or end and consisting of only one uniform particle type. Of course the matter / energy that constitutes our physical presence in the here and now would form part of that soup. So, in a sense, you have an eternity.

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  2. John F***ing Stepp

    Linux vs Microsoft vs Macintosh.

    Oh God, not this bullsh*t again.

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  3. Anonymous Coward
    Coat

    It's all just....

    ...people arguing over who has the better imaginary friend.

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  4. Clive Galway
    Stop

    I can't believe with over 100 posts no-one has said this...

    But surely putting down "Jedi" or even "Non Religeous" is not describing many people's views.

    As someone who is not only atheist but also has a major problem with the indoctrination of our children in faith schools and other such issues with our allegedly "Secular" society, then the correct answer is "Secular Humanist".

    If you don't know what that is, I suggest you visit http://www.secularhumanism.org/, or the site of one of it's most vocal proponents, http://richarddawkins.net/

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    1. No, I will not fix your computer
      Reply Icon
      Stop

      Re: I can't believe with over 100 posts no-one has said this...

      Because it's missing the point? Because people read the article?

      If you put "Secular Humanist" in answer to the question "what is your religion?", then this distorts the figures in the same way as puting "Jedi", it will look as if people have a religion, when they do not, if the question was "What is your belief system?" then you might have a point, the question is not asking a view, it's asking what religion, and if you artificially over-inflate the numbers by claiming that secular humanism is a religion then you are just telling the government that it's OK to continue to fund religions, because most people are religious.

      So, tick the 'no religion' box [like me] and have a voice, don't throw it away.

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      1. Anonymous Coward
        Reply Icon
        Anonymous Coward

        Religion is still missing the point...

        Asking the question "what is your religion?" is not the right question. I know an awful lot of people who would answer with one particular religion. The problem there being that those people don't really practice that religion (other than occasionally calling on their deity when stub their toe) they were just vaguely brought up with reference to that religion. Having sung religous songs and said prayers in school assemblies forty years ago does not make you a practicing member of a religion. And while I know that you don't have to visit a place of worship to practice most religions it's a good starting point.

        So it might be better to ask the question: "Do you visit a place of worship to practice a religion or do you otherwise regularly practice a religion. If so what is your religion? (If you do not regularly practice a religion please tick the box marked NO RELIGION". If they were to ask that question I think the answers would be a bit different. The problem is that the question is pretty much based on the assumption that most people practice a religion.

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  5. Anonymous Coward
    Coat

    I would like to propose....

    That in these trying economic times the Brit Census should add a box titled "no possessions and no religion too". John Lennon would have wanted it that way....

    Mine's the Nehru jacket hanging on the peg over there.

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  6. tumbleworld
    FAIL

    Oh, come _on_, all ye faithful.

    Despite the righteously indignant frothing of all our devout Atheist chums here, claiming Jedi-hood absolutely does _not_ bolster the ranks of the religious.

    This is directly from the notes of the 2001 census's Religious Populations analysis, posted back in 2004:

    "No religion includes people who ticked 'None' at the religion question plus those who wrote in Jedi Knight, Agnostic, Atheist and Heathen and those who ticked 'Other' but did not write in any religion."

    So to be absolutely clear: atheists, agnostics, Jedis and unreadable Others are all in exactly the same category. So please, stop the damned ranting, and if people want to play Jedi Knights with the gubmint, let them be childish in peace.

    The details of the census data also note that: "... many people chose to write in their own religion. _Some_ of these religions were reassigned to one of the main religions offered" (my emphasis). Also, "151,000 people belonged to religious groups which did not fall into any of the main religions. The largest of these were Spiritualists (32,000) and Pagans (31,000), followed by Jain (15,000), Wicca (7,000), Rastafarian (5,000), Bahà'ì (5,000) and Zoroastrian (4,000)."

    I'm a bit depressed to see Voudessaints, Cthulhu Cultists and Discordians so poorly represented, but hey, you can't have everything.

    The data can be studied here:

    http://www.statistics.gov.uk/cci/nugget.asp?id=954

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  7. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    fun da mental atheism

    fundamental atheists are as preachy as any fundamental religious believer. Why berate someone for having faith in something you don't believe in? every fundamentalist believes their ideals are the best, and have no time for anyone who says otherwise. why can't we all just get along?

    I don't believe in a god, but I would never think to say people that do are ignorant or backwards as a large amount of 'fundamental' atheists choose to do.

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    1. No, I will not fix your computer
      Reply Icon
      Grenade

      Atheism is a response

      Not an end in it's own right, "fundamental atheists are as preachy as any fundamental religious believer", not really, or at least not at the moment, nobody stands up and says "I don't believe in X" unless someone else is already saying "X is the truth, and the only truth".

      Creationists are having a damaging effect on science, it's OK to respond, religions that enforce various social exclusion, physical mutilation, sexism, abuse shoul dbe spoken up against.

      Once Atheists are found picketing the local church with banners and bull horns on a sunday when all people want to do is have a nice sing song, a pray, tea and cakes, then you have a point, but until then, either stand up against the injustice, or shut up, just don't try and stop people responding to something wrong.

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  8. T J
    FAIL

    Jedi = No Religion here in Oz

    I was reading that the Beaureu of Stats here in Oz - who are absolute little hitler a-holes by the way - treat 'Jedi' as 'No religion'.

    Yes, their reckoning will come, and it will come HARD, and it wont be a Rain Of Frogs, it will be Budget Reviews.

    I just keep putting 'Jedi', its a matter of slamming them over the head enough times.

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  9. mike_anderson25
    Happy

    Religious by own right?

    I think it's important to differentiate spiritual from religious as a few have already pointed out. Until there is a definitive understanding of atheism and the term's literal definition (that everyone can agree on) I'm reluctant to label myself anything whether it be atheist, gnostic atheist, agnostic or otherwise. My beliefs are my own, are of no concern to anyone else because I don't make it their concern.

    Atheism isn't (I believe) a religion or belief. But some sure do treat as one.

    Eg. "YOU MUST READ THIS BOOK!"

    A phrase used by atheists and chrisians alike.

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    1. OrsonX
      Reply Icon
      WTF?

      YOU MUST READ THIS BOOK

      Yes, but...

      Believer: here's a ficticious book about fairies in the sky, I want you to believe in the fairies, no questions asked, mkay?

      Atheist: here's a copy of On the Origin of Species, it's based on observations backed up with evidence, if you disagree with the observations made then feel free to make your own observations backed up with evidence and let us know, we'd be really excited to hear what you have to say!

      Spot the difference!

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  10. Whitefort
    Unhappy

    Help! Help! I'm being repressed!!!

    Help me, Obi-Wan Kenobi! The nasty anthiest peoples shouted at me!!

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  11. david 63

    @Irish Donkey

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1364629/Millions-closet-Spanish-nuns-tax-dodge-probe-THEY-report-robbery-1-3m-cash-cupboard-convent.html

    Deceit is the cornerstone of religeon...

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  12. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    More likely to be agnostic than atheist

    it may be the case, but I don't know

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  13. deadlockvictim

    The Church of Adams

    I far prefer the Church of Adams.

    I believe that the mice ordered the Magratheans to build the Earth to find the Question to the Answer to Life, the Universe and Everything.

    His holy tomes explain so much. They validate the Intelligent Designer argument (see, the great State of Kansas is correct). It explains where we come from (I'm from a long line of proud telephone sanitisers) and it explains the apocalypse (damn psychiatrists).

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  14. Winkypop Silver badge
    Joke

    So how do you become God?

    I didn't vote for him...

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  15. Anonymous Coward
    Jobs Halo

    May the Farce be with you

    Jed for me again

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  16. Bernard M. Orwell

    Thou Shalt Not Kill

    So, a though experiment for you.....

    Imagine, if you will, that you are a believer in god. You attend the church of your choice regularly and you believe the written word of your religion is an excellent guide to moral questions and you apply them in your every day life. You accept that all things were made by God and are in His purpose and plan.

    You are also homosexual and a surgeon. (both of these things are ordained by the same god that you worship, as all things are within his creation etc. despite homosexuality being against the tenants of your chosen religion, lets say.) You've clearly struggled with your own desires and the morality of your faith, but so far you have maintained abstinence and you are a good <insert religious noun>.

    Then, one day, you meet the partner of your dreams and in a drunken moment your morality slips and you partake in your desires. Oh Dear.

    Next day in work, you are presented with conjoined twins and a decision...

    If you do not seperate them, they will both die. If you do seperate them then one will die and one will live. Your religion states thou shalt not kill, yet either way you will be resonsible for death, through either action or inaction.

    Now, Choose. Whats it to be?

    Thou Shalt Not Kill is NOT a valid rule for any moral system. Sometimes killing is neccessary in order to save others. What if you could kill one person to save millions? Would you NOT do it?

    Oh...why the homosexuality? Because clearly the fact that the following day you had to make this decision is a punishment from God for your waywardness the night before. No? Oh, well that must mean that NOT everything is within his power and plan.

    On another note, a good scientist would never say, absolutely, that there is no god, only that there is no evidence for the existence of god. They may even be willing, time and motivation permitting, to help look for such evidence. After all, looking for something that we can't be sure is or isn't there is what cutting edge science does, isn't it? Higgs Bosun particle anyone?

    Oh, and for the record, I renounce the holy spirit and all his works. (This is the only unforgiveable sin, according to the Gospel according to Matthew. - See "The God who Wasn't There".)

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  17. Anonymous Coward
    Troll

    going to the dark side

    This is what the sith want you to do and denounce the relgion of JEDI. You've seen the films the damn dark side is winning!!! The Jedi's will feel this after teh census is complete. Personally my religion is Alcholism. i worship the pint daily. Long live the beer and crisp flavoured burps.

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  18. Sil_W
    IT Angle

    Single Standards Only, Please

    I'm not going to bother reading through over 200 comments on yet another religion item on this here IT site - I'll take all the fairytale, Santa Claus/Easter Bunny, pink unicorn, spaghetti monster sniping as read.

    I'll just point out that according to neo-atheist doctrine, it's *religious* people who're supposed to interfere in other people's private lives. That's why we're evil. Might be a good idea, as suggested, if the Humanist Association credit their fellow atheists with enough sense to fill in a form without being nursed through the process.

    Besides, there's a nice clear "no religion" box. If people judge it more important to joke than represent themselves honestly there's not much to be done.

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  19. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Census

    The census form and the completely unnecessary TV ads for it tell me that the results will be used to help government to make decisions. So the very presence of a religion section is a little disturbing.

    The form also states that it will be declassified in just 100 years, so the very presence of any section is a little disturbing.

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  20. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Jedi?

    I'm an atheist or a humanist or whatever you want to call me so I think that all religion is fiction. However it really disturbs me that there are people out there who really think that they are Jedi. While all religion is based on a fiction, Jedi-ism is a fictional religion.

    Believing yourself to be a Jedi is no different than believing the characters from a soap are real people. Religion is a delusion and to claim to be a Jedi is to pile one delusion on top of another.

    And to those who claimed that they only answered Jedi because they thought it was a bit of fun getting it recognised as a real religion. The story that getting so many people to answer Jedi would get it recognised as a real religion wasn't even true. All it would mean is that with enough answers it would crop up in the statistics output from the census, but that would not make it an officially recognised religion as far as the government were concerned.

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  21. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Agnostic

    Is there a box for agnostics to tick or do they put a faint mark in all the boxes they're undecided about?

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  22. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    The state shouldn't be concerned with religion

    Cory Doctorow is still wrong, even after his correction.

    It's not a matter of ticking the "no religion" box: it's a matter of striking out the entire set of questions in that section: the state should not be involved with or asking about religion in the first place.

    It's well past time to disestablish ALL religion in this country.

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    1. No, I will not fix your computer
      Reply Icon
      Jobs Horns

      Re: The state shouldn't be concerned with religion

      That may be true, but government and its people are like steering a tanker, it's a slow process, and historically, the UK (or England, depending on your viewpoint) is officially a Christian country, while we have an innefectual monarchy, we still have one, and the same is true for religious influence, once we have voiced our opinion then the government should listen, but they can't just scrap religion because they think we should, we have to scrap religion because we think we should.

      It will be impossible to justify funding faith schools once the country has no faith, but at the moment lots of people have faith.

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  23. theregister@mariegriffiths.co.uk
    Pirate

    deCSS

    I can't find a field long enough to put the deCSS algorithm into the Census form.

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  24. Colin Bain

    Most people don't need.....

    Actually most people do need, at the very least, to be reminded of laws in order to behave decently. And it doesn't equate with intelligence/knowledge either. Law breakers of all types, as well as those who deliberately break moral boundaries need all kinds of reminders. To look outside your door and simply empirically observe society is proof of this. And perhaps, if we were honest, we wouldn't need to to look out side of our own doors (mine included) to find such evidence.

    It seems to me that (having once been inclined to the evolutionary side of things, but having found things that don't quite add up) either side of this debates requires a particular lens or glass to look through. My conclusion is that this lens or glass is very dark indeed and reflects the condition of our souls.

    And to the one who commented and implied that religion had the corner on child abuse, might just want to wonder if there are other power structures, nonreligious in nature, that have been overlooked so far. Human nature being what it is from either side, would easily generate a conclusion that there is more to come from both extremes.

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