CIA rendition jet was waiting in Europe to SNATCH SNOWDEN As the whistleblowing NSA sysadmin Edward Snowden made his dramatic escape to Russia a year ago, a secret US government jet - previously employed in CIA "rendition" flights on which terror suspects disappeared into invisible "black" imprisonment - flew into Europe in a bid to spirit him back to America, the Register can reveal …
... about this extraordinary rendition aircraft, its purpose, how it was going to be used in Mr. Snowden's case, how it was not going to be used in Mr. Snowden's case, who was on board this aircraft, who wasn't on board this aircraft but should have been, NATO Treaty intricacies, subsequent amendments and their applicability as a matter of law, I move that we table this discussion and collectively express our gratitude for having someone as knowledgeable and enlightened as Matt Bryant willing to share some of his invaluable time and edumacate the rest of us.
Matt Bryant Knows Everything, ranging from finance to economics to central banking to interest-rate setting mechanisms, undercover intelligence gathering, inner workings of the NSA, SIGINT, international flight plan filing requirements, Copenhagen Airport, exact geographical location of Scotland, Vladimir Putin's thinking, Edward Snowden's thinking about Vladimir Putin's thinking, Solaris, SPARC, Itanium, you name it, Matty-Boy Knows It.
Someone at a bar told me that he can also walk on water, be physically present in several different places at the same time, operate in multiple N-dimensional spaces, bend the time-space continuum by focusing gravitational waves, cure cancer and bring about World Peace.
Matt Bryant Is Love.
We are truly blessed for having Matt Bryant here, amongst the undeserving rest of us.
".....edumacate the rest of us..." Well, some of you seem to be suffering from an excess of education from which you derived no knowledge.
"....ranging from finance to economics to central banking to interest-rate setting mechanisms...." Aw, you're not STILL sulking over the kicking you took in not being able to disprove my simple example of how someone earning 100k lives like a millionaire, are you? That 'illustrious' college degree you bleated on about should have included a module in getting over yourself.
Matt Bryant is an attention seeking troll, probably suffering from some form of autism.
The perpetual stream of condescending insults at anyone and everyone who disagrees with him is totally unacceptable and an abysmal failure by the moderators on this forum.
You can be sure that such bile directed against Orlowski would have been promptly removed and warnings issued, but obviously the same standards aren't applied when genuine contributors are verbally abused.
I would be extremely cautious to diagnose Matt Bryant as suffering from any form of autism spectrum disorder. Anger management issues perhaps; what is clear is that he expects to be able to disagree with other people, using insulting language, but he doesn't like it if anybody disagrees with him.
Only two of the Americans I've met over the years have resembled him in this; one was also a hard right Republican, and the other was a Vietnam vet who most likely was suffering from PTSD, though I don't think it was called that in those days, and again this isn't a diagnosis. Opinion polls have suggested that more than 90% of scientists in the US vote Democrat in national elections, and really I'm not surprised.
What is interesting about him is that he cannot resist personal insults and can't make his case without them. I've decided I don't mind. If he wants to call me "Arnaut the clueless" let him. P J O'Rourke constantly insults Harvard graduates and Jimmy Carter, but I don't notice any of them leaving suicide notes in which they state that his rudeness was the final straw.
[ ... ] he expects to be able to disagree with other people, using insulting language, but he doesn't like it if anybody disagrees with him. [ ... ]
[ ... ] Opinion polls have suggested that more than 90% of scientists in the US vote Democrat in national elections, and really I'm not surprised. [ ... ]
Link to the abstract of an interesting research article published in the Journal of Psychological Science:
http://pss.sagepub.com/content/23/2/187
"....Link to the abstract of an interesting research article published in the Journal of Psychological Science...." Of course, because there never were any racist or homophobic Lefties, right?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stalin%27s_antisemitism
You guys really need to realise bad science is just bad science, no matter how comforting you find it. Oh, and that's another sheeple post with SFA to do with the thread or the with any counter to the points I raised. Try again, only a lot harder, mmmkay?
Don't forget that the President of Bolivia had his plane diverted inside Europe when returning from a trip to Moscow. Apparently it was thought possible that he was smuggling the then "in limbo" Snowden to South America.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-23156360
If amateurs can track US planes on presumably pretty dark if not completely black missions, why wouldn't they turn off the transponder? (yeah, I know they're made to not be turned off, but that should be an afternoon's work for one engineer to put a switch on it)
Then they could turn on a transponder with a fake identify, so every time it flies it is a different plane. Sort of like James Bond's rotating license plates.
Seems like it would be easy to avoid this type of amateur tracking if they wished, so given that they didn't, that means they didn't care in this instance if they were tracked. When they're on a mission that isn't already splattered over the world press, they might be a bit more subtle.
I imagine that every use of obfuscating procedues exposes them to discovery. And so they are used only when necessary so as to prolong their lifetime.
I don't think this flight qualifies as a 'black op'. The World knew Snowden was a target of US law enforcement and intelligence agencies. So having people see the plane coming for him was not really a surprise. On the other hand, if this knowledge would have resulted in a flash mob showing up to block the runway (had ES been apprehended and loaded onboard), the DoJ might start cloaking their ops. Then, we might see some interesting cat and mouse games involving amateur tracking.
why wouldn't they turn off the transponder? (yeah, I know they're made to not be turned off
On the contrary, they *are* designed to be turned off.
Here's a picture of one of the units I use - note the "on", "off" and "stby" buttons in the circle. Another type (similar to one I use, but not quite the same) can be found here. Again, note the "off" position on the switch...
Then they could turn on a transponder with a fake identify
Not all transponders have any knowledge of the aircraft identity (although I suspect this one would have).
Seems like it would be easy to avoid this type of amateur tracking if they wished, so given that they didn't, that means they didn't care in this instance if they were tracked.
I suspect it's more along the lines of flying a jet at high speed is significantly safer if you have a mode S transponder active, and the risks of being tracked are nothing like the risks of flying into something because you haven't seen it in time. I don't know the capabilty of this particular aircraft, but an indicated airspeed of 400 knots at 45,000 ft comes out as a true airspeed of 760 knots. That's bloody fast in anyone's language (although I'm pretty sure the aircraft won't achieve this, at it would be supersonic at that altitude).
Vic.
Transponders usually have a selector switch, which can be set to "off", "standby" , "on", and "alt". The last one being the mode it would be in during your regular cruise flight.
So, just turning it to "off", does exactly that. It turns of the transponder.
I think people get a bit confused with the only thing that pilots cannot turn off, which is the Flight Data Recorder. It turns on when all the avionics are activated (or like when the beacon lights are turned on), or when the wheels leave the ground, until wheels touch ground again and avionics are turned off.
Having said that, it will disappear you from secondary radar, but not from primary radar (the conventional radio bounce thing). I think most countries will frown upon aircraft turning up on radar into controlled airspace, without identification on secondary (unless you fly around Vietnam, Thailand, Malaysia, or Indonesia, apparently). Not sure if radio communication with ATC alone is enough...
Come on .. the CIA was just trying to be courteous towards one of a US Citizen in need of assistance .. they were to take him on a personalised tour so he could relax at one of the world most famous hotels and enjoy superb dining in Cuba . Really people .. you should stop seeing conspiracies and evil where there's none .. The cheerfull lads at the CIA have , haven't and never do any wrong or anything illegal. Nothing but good intentions.
( Note : this comment was written with a cheerfull CIA operative pointing a silenced .45 at my temple .. nothing to see here , it's for my security .. or so i'm told ...
This post has been deleted by its author
"..... the coveted Silver Badge status....." Aw, what a laughable little popularist troll you are! I take it you think you need the adulation of your fellow sheeple to be 'a success' to have 'achieved something'? Would you stick your head in an oven if they offered to upvote you for it because it sounds like you would. As I have pointed out before, I really couldn't give a jot whether you sheeple get your panties in a bunch. When the forums started the badges, I posted that there should also be a black badge for achieving a certain number of down votes, it would at least show independent thought.
".....But does El Reg count downvotes towards removal of said status?" LOL, to really upsets you, does it? So amusing! Oh, and again, nothing at all to do with the thread. You sheeple really do hate a dissenting voice, don't you.
I'm just saying that because I'm sure I've already been on their watch lists ever since I accidentally typed the big dick Cheney. So much trouble for forgetting to capitalize a "d" and a certain lack of humor?
War crimes? Damn good thing Iraqi lives are worthless, even in the 10s or 100s of thousands. Dare I say a million? Or actually, shouldn't we just say the big dick's books are still open? You know, it's like a pitcher who left a couple of men on base and still gets their runs added to his ERA. Or maybe we should use the joke about the outfielder who messed up so badly that no one can play center field now.
Kind of makes me laugh at my naivete. When Dubya snuck into the White House in 2000, I had no capacity to imagine the mess he would leave behind. Then in 2008 I actually had a delusion that President Obama could clean it up. You know what they say: "Fool me once, shame on... You can't get fooled again." Hey, thank goodness you can't fool me any more. My vote has been cancelled to zero!
Alquaeda was the child and invention of the CIA and a direct result of arming the Mujahadeen in Afganistan by the US to harrass the Russians. No big surprise then when the Mujahadeen having seen off one bunch of invaders turned their freely supplied weaponry on to the next invader, the USA.
In all the ensuing mess that followed, not once has the USA or the UK had the guts to point the finger at the main supplier of terrorists, Saudi Arabia and Qatar. Both countries being customers of the benevolent USA arms industry. Wouldn't wish to impact on the profits of the arms dealers would we? after all there is little profit in sacrificing young men and spilling their blood, just a few days uncomfortable headlines, while our glorious leaders 1,000s of miles from the war zone or any risk to their cowardly bodies, stand to attention and proudly watch the result of their craven behaviour consigned to gun salutes, declared heroes and being wrapped in the flag. Absolutely sickening and hypocritical. The really sad thing is some of us still fall for it.
"....the Mujahadeen having seen off one bunch of invaders turned their freely supplied weaponry on to the next invader, the USA....." Actually, you I'll-educated moron, the Taliban turned on their fellow Afghanis, aided by AQ. On the other side of the border, they turned on the Pakistanis. Both happened long before the US invasion. The Northern Alliance, which represented the MAJORITY of Afghans, was all in favour of the US removing the Taliban from power, especially after AQ murdered their leader. Try a bit of reading before bleating thoughtless propaganda pieces, mmmkay?
We're going to face all those SAMs we sold to the Iraqis over the last decade -- now in the hands of ISIS.
Was wondering today if we gave Iraq any M-60's or M-1's? Not to worry. Maybe the Iranians could take them out with what's left of those old TOW missiles sold to them during the Iran-Contra "arms for hostages" swaps.
Every time one of the war hawks in Congress starts blathering about sending more weapons to that part of the world someone should remind them that they don't come with safeties to prevent their being turned back on our own troops. Morons.
"....all those SAMs we sold to the Iraqis over the last decade....." And which SAMs would that be? As far as I can discern, none have been sold to the Iraqis since the invasion. I believe the US has agreed the sale of tanks, artillery and some F-16s, but no SAMs. Any other SAMs will have come from Russia, China or Iran, and will be as much use against the USN as they weren't in Libya.
"....-- now in the hands of ISIS....." The majority of US arms haven't even shipped! If ISIS have captured any American arms from the police and security troops they have met so far it is more likely to be EU-supplied Glock pistols and the odd M4 carbine, not M1 tanks or SAMs. They may have captured a few HUMVEEs but that's not exactly much of a problem to even a Hellfire-equipped Predator, let alone an USN F/A-18.
".....Was wondering today if we gave Iraq any M-60's or M-1's?....Maybe the Iranians could take them out with what's left of those old TOW missiles....." As shown again by the Libyan events, knocking out tanks when you have air-superiority is no too big a problem, even the Fwench managed it.
"....Every time one of the war hawks in Congress starts blathering about sending more weapons to that part of the world someone should remind them that they don't come with safeties to prevent their being turned back on our own troops...." Agreed, only the current weapons being shipped to Iraq were agreed by Obambi and his chums, not the 'war hawks'. And the variants of the high-tech kit the US would send to places like Iraq will be down-graded compared to front-line US kit, if only to stop the Iraqis giving it to Iran. So, much less of a problem than you want to make out.
That jet has been used in criminal enterprise and no nation should allow it landing rights. Any country that does should be reported to the UN and the Court of International Justice. Any use of assets to kidnap individuals off the streets of other nations should be subject to confiscation and forfeiture to the nation that bore the attack on its laws and civil peace.
The photo in the teaser link on the Register web pages shows an SR-71 Blackbird spy plane - long retired from service, although it routinely did photo recon for the CIA - and not the humble corporate Gulfstream jet shown in the photos in the body of the story. Not that it really matters, but, one more or less expects the Register to get such things right. I suppose that all news sources use hype in their teasers, to get people to watch or click on them. Still, I'm amused and slightly disappointed in El Reg for such a silly inconsistency. I mean, why not show a jumbo jet, or an F14 Tomcat, or a British Harrier, as long as we're being absurdly fanciful in the photos? Oh well... either way, it went back empty.
Have to wonder what Snowden would have done if they'd actually offered him a ride on an SR-71?
That's the problem with these guys. Too stupid or lazy to "know thy enemy".
Personally I might have gone for it. At least there would have been an interesting story to tell out in the prison exercise yard.
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