back to article FROM MY COLD, DEAD HANDS: Microsoft faces prising XP from Big Biz

Windows versions are a bit like Star Trek movies – every other one tends to be a bit duff. It happened with ME, then XP impressed everyone, then it happened with Vista, then Windows 7 came along – and now we're at Windows 8.1. So far, adoption rates of Microsoft's latest hope for cross-device domination haven't been great. …

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      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Upgrade, don't upgrade, meh

        While this link claims to represent something quite old, http://www.etsy.com/listing/154166645/vintage-italian-expresso-coffee-maker , the fact of the matter is that these are still made, and I have several sizes.

        Damned fine espresso, and all one ever needs. Visit any Italian home, and you will find one of these (or perhaps a slightly funkier, newer design version).

  1. Charlie Clark Silver badge

    Paid support still available

    The ISS runs a special version of Windows XP (Service Pack 6) which Microsoft will continue to support. Same is true for any company prepared to pay the associated costs.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Paid support still available

      And a lucrative racket it will be for those providing the support, I'm sure. Just look at the mainframe world for an example of software vendors milking a captive audience...

      1. Not That Andrew

        Re: Paid support still available

        Wouldn't surprise me If those patches trickle through to the general public. It also wouldn't surprise me if an open source project reverse engineeering patches for XP sprung up. I imagine ReactOS is also going to gain more interest and maybe support.

        1. Pookietoo

          Re: ReactOS

          That's been in Alpha forever (OK maybe not as long as Hurd).

    2. xehpuk

      Re: Paid support still available

      http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/05/10/iss_linux_debian_deployment/

  2. bigfoot780

    cut off

    XP needs to go. Its 12 years old. UAC does actually make the os more secure. The biggest problem is a) cost, win 7 licencing etc. B) support for older equipment / software. For most orgs linux is not a viable option as they need to run autocad, photoshop etc. There has to be cut off at some point.

    1. Not That Andrew

      Re: cut off

      UAC isn't in XP and the point of UAC was not security, it was to annoy users so they would nag vendors to get off their arses and rewrite their shitty software to properly support a multi user environment.

      1. Ross K Silver badge
        Windows

        Re: cut off

        UAC isn't in XP...

        I think that's the point the guy before you was making...

        ...it was to annoy users

        Hardly. You can spend five seconds in the Control Panel turning it off and it won't "annoy" you again.

      2. dajames
        Boffin

        Re: cut off

        ... the point of UAC was not security ...

        The point of UAC most certainly was security. UAC was introduced at the same time as user account creation was changed so that new users would, by default, not have Administrator privileges.

        Can you imagine what would have happened had UAC not been introduced at that time? Millions of home users working for the first time without Administrator privileges would have discovered that they couldn't install software (because they'd never heard of "Run as ...") and the support lines would have been buzzing. Microsoft introduced UAC to make the switch to limited user accounts manageable for those without an in-house IT department.

        UAC is very definitely a security mechanism, even though what it actually does is not to increase security, but to reduce it in a controlled way. Using a non-admin account doesincrease security -- and UAC makes that a viable proposition for home users.

        1. Not That Andrew

          Re: cut off

          You make a good point, I had forgotten that aspect.

  3. Trollslayer

    A major flaw

    in the whole idea of OS marketing.

    You want to pay a modest price for the OS but you want free protection from bad guys forever.

    How long can the supplier afford to do this when there is no income?

    How about a lower up front cost and a low annual cost (£2?) so they can afford to continue to protect the product? This isn't about their failures but you pay for anti virus and anti malware software so why should OS security be different?

    We are killing the golden goose here.

    Now add to the mix that, for example, Excel is an extremely important business tool What are you going to run it on? I find it remarkably versatile and wish there was a Linux compatible equivalent but give the 18 month support cycle for Ubuntu it's not worth someone's bother putting that much effort into a product.

    Open source has it's place but I can't find really good desktop applications for business that compare with commercial ones.

    1. Trevor_Pott Gold badge

      Re: A major flaw

      Nobody in this thread has said "we won't pay Microsoft to support Windows XP." We have said "fuck Windows 8" and "fuck the Windows 7-era VDI licensing" and even "there's lots of XP out there that can't be updated."

      Ding me $100/installation/year and I'll gladly pay for the support costs. Just give me the fucking choice. Don't try forcing me onto the "new" version with the lie that "newer is better." If you want to sell me on "better' then prove it with facts and figures applicable to my situation. And that of my clients.

      Otherwise, I'll spend the money I would have spent paying Microsoft support buying third party applications and hardware to defend my now out-of-support Windows XP installations.

      Paying a reasonable amount simply isn't the issue. Paying an unreasonable amount it. Being forced to upgrade is. Are you capable of understanding the difference?

    2. Chemist

      Re: A major flaw

      "but give the 18 month support cycle for Ubuntu "

      Ubuntu != Linux

  4. J.G.Harston Silver badge

    I drive a 16-year-old car. It just ***ing works. There is no reason to spend money replacing something that still just ***ing works. Yes, it's dropped from 35mpg to 32mpg in that time, and at some point I need to replace the fuse on the central locking, but there is absolutely no need for me to spend a magnitude more than my annual costs - money I don't have - replacing something that still just ***ing works.

    s/car/XP/

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      your car just ***ing works?

      Then why the acute frustration leading you to need expletives to express yourself? Or is your command of English not up to it?

      1. Trevor_Pott Gold badge

        @AC

        Why are you a douche canoe? Is it a disease? Some terrible genetic disorder beyond your control?

        Enquiring minds want to know...

  5. MalPearce

    Corporate desktop reimaging...

    Nice to hear how easy it is for all those one man band shops where people use their fondleslabs for email, web and a bit of occasional word processing. Everywhere I've seen XP corporate in a rollout, the PC is a workhorse with industry-specific apps. Any of the following can apply-

    1. a highly restricted locked down environment on prescribed hardware, IE6, "internal systems", bespoke apps

    2. a smorgasbord of builds for different makes and models of PC, perhaps with some app management on top

    3. preinstalled OEM Windows desktops that users have filled with crap over the last ten years

    I've seen XP in critical business areas running on PCs that have never been rebooted - because people are so scared that if they did reboot the PC and the last 7 years' worth of Windows Updates got applied, it'd never come back up again!

    Compared to all of that, Windows 7 has definite advantages particularly in scenarios 2 and 3, and in scenario 1 where there'll be more need to interact with other organisations that are using Office 2013 and have IE10 compliant websites than enforced compliance for the puposes of running a mission-critical app on Deck 9 of the Engineering department.

    I personally find Win8 really easy to use, very manageable, faster than Win7 and a piece of piss to deploy... but then, I'm using it as a Thin Client operating system for remoting onto a VDI setup.

  6. xehpuk

    When you switch a company to next OS a lot of applications needs to be updated also. Make sure to favour applications that are multi platform! That way they will last you much longer and you avoid the lock in in case Win9 gets even worse than Win8.

  7. Unicornpiss

    The phenomenon of the beater laptop

    I'm sure that Facebook like most organizations still has a few PCs on XP. But the laptop shown in the photo is what.. a Dell D600 or D610 maybe by the looks of it? A 7-9 year old laptop with a single-core processor? I suspect that it's one of the many throwaway beater laptops that pretty much every IT department keeps around for compatibility with some favorite utility or to pull out of a drawer when some logging or other task that doesn't need to tie up a more powerful machine comes up. A machine that beat the odds by not being recycled some years ago because it was still in great shape and someone rescued it.

    You can't surmise that Facebook has very many machines at all still on XP from the photo.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: The phenomenon of the beater laptop

      Has farcebook even existed 7-9 years?

      1. ecofeco Silver badge

        Re: The phenomenon of the beater laptop

        "Has farcebook even existed 7-9 years?"

        February 2004 in its first incarnation.

        1. ecofeco Silver badge
          Trollface

          Re: The phenomenon of the beater laptop

          A thumb down for stating a fact?

          Still peeved about my cloud comments, are you? Tut, tut.

    2. ecofeco Silver badge
      Pint

      Re: The phenomenon of the beater laptop

      OMG, you're right. It IS an old 600 series Dell.

      How funny. Good catch!

      And your surmise would be correct. That's exactly what we used them for as well. Low priority beaters or "We're all out of the good loaners, here's all we have left", loaner.

  8. Martin Maloney
    Boffin

    Stop bashing Vista

    MS marketing insisted on Vista's being released before it was ready. That's ancient history.

    With two Service Packs under its belt, plus the monthly updates, Vista no longer deserves to be viewed with contempt. The operational differences between Vista and Win7 are insignificant.

    I have two circa-2007 laptops -- a Compaq and a Gateway, each of which came with Vista. HP released Win7 drivers, so I upgraded to Win7. Gateway didn't, so I stayed with Vista.

    What Vista has going for it over Win7 is that its desktop layout -- Start button, Launch bar, Taskbar and Tray -- is identical to that of XP. Its familiarity is comfortable. The only real learning curve is the menu system, which takes all of two seconds, before the user enthuses, "Wow! Neat!" Vista will continue to be supported until April, 2017.

    Next spring, when it is time for clients to upgrade from XP, I will show them my two laptops and let them decide on which Windows version that they prefer.

    1. Trevor_Pott Gold badge

      Re: Stop bashing Vista

      As someone who uses both Windows XP and Windows 7 heavily, going back to Vista (or in my case Server 2008) is still a fucking nightmare. While the OS may be "usable" now (for "fuck Windows Serach" values of "usable") the UI is pants. It's all the worst parts of Windows 7 and all the worst parts of Windows XP mashed together into a clusterfuck of horror.

      Windows 7's UI is superior in (most) ways to Windows XP. You need Classic Shell to get a good menu (and to get back your up arrow) as well as networktray to get a per-NIC indicator and quick link to network adapters. Beyond that, you're good...and those two changes are free (beer and speech) and can be scripted into your installs.

      Vista just has so many little niggly things that even two patches in the UI feels unfinished. Using it for any legnth of time makes me wonder how people dogfooded this thing without going stark raving mad.

      A lot like my feelings about Windows 8, funnily enough...

    2. phil8192
      Thumb Down

      Re: Stop bashing Vista

      I had Vista on a Compaq Presario laptop, a warranty replacement for its immediate predecessor that came with Windows XP. I was forced to take it, although I asked HP to ship it with XP. It was absolutely horrible: It ran slow and HOT; the CPU fan ran at top speed almost constantly, so I "downgraded" the machine to XP and it's been fine. There are good reasons to bash Vista.

  9. regadpellagru

    Microsoft has just stopped improving products

    I think the real problem is MS has stopped to improve their products to the point where it has any value to upgrade at all, except the fear, and fear is subjective.

    I've been with XP+Office 2003 in 2010, then XP+Office 2007, then Win7+Office 2010 now, and I really hope to the gods this didn't cost to my employer.

    Office: from 2003 to 2010, let's see:

    Powerpoint:

    plus: animations panels has been enhanced, indeed.

    minus: meaningless changes of GUI, loosing productivity

    overall: this is a draw to me.

    Excel:

    plus: hmmm, let me see. No, I can't think of anything.

    minus: why the <bip> does "format cells" take 10 s or more to come up ???? Why ?

    overall: Excel 2010 is worse than 2003 or 2007

    Word:

    plus: well, possibly a better TOC management system if I recall.

    minus: meaningless changes of GUI, loosing productivity

    overall: this is a draw to me.

    Now, Windows, lets see between XP (SP2 patched) vs. 7:

    plus: sorry, can't name anything. There is something better ????

    minus: is different, for the apparent sole purpose of being different from a GUI point of view. Same shit behind of course. BTW, fuck you MS, for replacing the "run command" menu by "shutdown". No fun here. Also, same apparent "boot slower" syndrom each time of boot.

    overall: Win 7 is worse than XP

    Overall, as many have commented, there is no value to upgrade to 7, and probably to 8 either. It's only a matter of how people are scared not to ... And if what I read of licensing is true (this is not really my thing, my employer pays for it), there HAS to be some value to be put against the cost incurred.

    Also, for those claiming Office is necessary vs. OpenOffice or LibreOffice, I really don't agree. The LibreOffice Word and Excel are better than Office now and can even do things MS Office can't do ...

  10. Black Rat

    Embrace the inner Trekkie

    Let's face it, few people are going to be happy with a touch screen interface until it looks (& works) like LCARS.

    1. Trevor_Pott Gold badge

      Re: Embrace the inner Trekkie

      LCARS doesn't use space efficiently and - frankly - seems to have a lot of buttons that do fuck all. Why would I want that?

  11. The Grump
    Pint

    My 2 cents

    First, I'm not a IT guy - I'm just a Windows user since the days of DOS. I couldn't program a VCR - so I needed an OS that just WORKED for my home PC. Been through the wringer with MS: 95 - good, 98 - meh, 2000 - balls, XP - liked it as much as 95, vista - balls for different reason. XP remembered where the window was placed for every program, and reopened them in the same place. Vista, W7 - windows forgets window placement - EVERY - SINGLE - TIME. I have to rearrange my windows every time. Spent many hours trying to get Vista to remember window placement - before I found out that MS sees it as a feature instead of a bug. I'd still be using XP if I didn't need the extra memory and CPU cycles to play the latest and greatest games.

    After an MS update, I discovered that my Search functionality in the folder view had stopped working. The Search function off the Start menu worked, but not in folder view. It took me two weeks of trial, error, giving up, coming back, more trial and error before I chanced on the problem, and managed to correct it (something had cleared some of the file types in MS's deservedly maligned "search indexing"). I don't have the luxury of an IT department - just me, and my mini-frig full of beer.

    So I figure, what's to stop MS from a final MS "Update" for Win XP, containing instructions to disable key functionalities of XP (and if they're smart, disable them after a set time period, so the malfunction will not be easily linked with the MS update). This would force XP users to update, whether they wanted to or not. And no, when you deal with MS, this is not paranoia - it's a very real possibility. I would turn off MS updates NOW, just to be on the safe side.

    As for WIN 8 - eh - let's just say that touch screen OS's and fried chicken don't go together well. MS should man up, grow a pair, and admit that Win 8 isn't the greatest idea they ever had. Now, licensing Win XP support for a fee - that is a good idea. Requiring users change to incompatible OS's every few years - bad idea. That's my 2 cents. And beer because, well, because I'm a Windows user. Gotta have something to dull the pain.

  12. Number6

    Nuclear Power

    How many people have seen the level of technology in the computers controlling the old Magnox (I think there's still one running) and AGR nuclear power stations in the UK? They never upgraded, they stuck with what had been tried and tested.

  13. JohnMcL

    Why go to Windows 8 ...

    ... when it's pretty obviously aimed at the "social media" morons who think everyone hangs on their Facebook and Twitter utterances. Windows 8.1 seems to be an attempt to put lipstick on a pig.

    Windows 7 allowed people to get actual work done, and earlier than that Windows XP offered even more freedom from the Borg's diktats about how work was to be accomplished.

  14. Magnus_Pym

    So in conclusion

    Significant numbers of XP machines are tied to devices or process that are incapable of change. These will continue to be XP whatever Microsoft do until the device of process becomes obsolete.

    Significant numbers of XP machines are tied to organisational units that require a lot of planning and effort to change. These will continue to use XP until the cost/gain balance swings massively to the other side.

    Significant numbers of XP machines are tied to devices or process that are difficult to change. These will continue to use XP until the cost/gain balance swings a little further to the other side.

    Some XP machines could easily be changed but the administrator has yet to be convinced of the gain vs cost equation.

    Give the type and size of the first two sets of users and the kind of commercial credibility required for their working practices it's only a matter of time until some major user group or industry sector forces Microsoft to offer XP some kind of XP lifeline.

  15. Tank boy

    Two cents from a home user

    I liked XP, it was a truck. Granted it needed maintenance from time to time, but what OS doesn't? When I heard that MS was going to basically send XP to the bone yard, I started flirting with Linux for my old desktop, and it's been hit or miss, but mostly positive. Our laptops run Win7, and they work great, no complaints, but I do miss XP. Not quite sure why MS decided to fix what wasn't broken (although I suspect it was about $), they really did a disservice to folks that rely on it for actual real work, not just fucking around on the internet.

  16. phil8192
    Big Brother

    Why is Microsoft so determined to get people to stop using Windows XP? As Microsoft operating systems go, it's not all that bad. Heck, I'm still using Windows 98SE on a couple of machines, as well as MS-DOS 6, and I still frequently run DOS programs in the DOSBox emulator on Linux!!

  17. ecofeco Silver badge
    Windows

    Shocked

    I am shocked at the number of reactionaries posting here.

    No, no, go ahead and keep XP. Go right ahead. The rope is plenty long. So is the pier.

  18. mgouker

    One thing to remember about the machine in the facebook testing section

    It is absolutely necessary for QA in Facebook to test every platform until it is no longer maintained. If a user has an issue that can only be reproduced on XP, the only alternative would be to scrub the machine and install it. That actually happens a lot too (especially for unsupported OS versions), but it can be a waste of time.

    I'm a happy Mac user and I use Windows 7 and Windows 8 for software development. Both Windows work as well as Windows ever has.

    Good luck!

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