Reports: New Xbox could DOOM second-hand games market

Bit of plastic

You're talking about the bit of plastic they're using as a data cache to save you having to download it? Let's face it, that's all it is. I think that's how they should be officially defined. Buy games exclusively online, then buy a physical copy of the data cache if you have a crap network. You're free to sell on that data cache if you want, but you'll still have to buy the executables online. Nobody moans about not being able to resell xbox arcade games.

Surely, this means cheaper games?

Since the game devs will get more profit from resale of the games, then the initial prices should be lower. Of course, I can't see this happening.

The Future of Gaming?

I'd rather have a digital download service much like what Apple offers with much of their upgradeable software. No more collections of discs, movies or video games that clutter your shelves. The introduction of "digital media only downloads" is nothing new, but eventually will take over, creating a completely new universe for the everyday user. Eventually movies and video games will no longer be available in a blockbuster store for rental because the media used to produce the movie or game costs more money. Hence cheaper availability of titles. Expect games to be cheaper unless the manufacturers decide to set the same price providing that the additional fees incurred benefit the user. If Microsoft incurs additional fees on top of what I am already paying for a year membership for XBOX Live, sic sic; lasts years rumblings for additional costs for online usage, then I'd rather not shell out the money for a new system. But with devices becoming smaller and smaller, change will eventually occur for the better. A system in one with additional bells and whistles minus a disc drive because the game is already installed and paid for. No more opening the disc drive to change games, wave your arms and tell your XBOX One, dashboard, Halo 25? Go!

Look at Google, they have something called Google Glass, a pair of glasses for $1500 with really Sh*tty resolution specs, wait a couple of years and they will have the same resolution as your iPhone 5 that can record video at 1080p? The new XBOX isn't out yet, can't wait to see what it does and how it performs. Speculation by Playstation lovers doesn't help.

New Xbox could DOOM second-hand games market - should read "New Xbox doomed from the start due to alienating all but the wealthiest of gamers"

When Microsoft realise that the revenue from games has dropped because people will be buying less games if they have to pay a £35 fee to re-activate second hand games they will probably back track and drop the idea just like they have with the always on internet connection on the XBOX1 and the up and coming changes to allow the start menu back in Windows 8. My advise would be hold off 6 months from buying and see what Microsoft do.

Converting Value to Cash

It seems that companies these days are bent on converting every bit of surplus value to cash. The problem is that it is surplus value that the customer is used to getting so they are reducing the value of their goods to the customer.

That's a dangerous strategy.

Another dangerous strategy is courting advertisers. It compromises the focus on the end-user experience.

I can't understand why MS don't find their own strategy rather than trying to mimic Google and Apple. With so many Windows/xbox systems out there, use your console as a private cloud. Make a big play of not having spyware or adverts and allowing users to keep control of their stuff. Keep your email on your xbox and just offer the option for mirroring/backing up to the cloud. Sell adsl and cable cards for xbox so that they can host VPNs for access while out and about, or at least offer an option to terminate pppoe on it.

They need to make a good product and do some good marketing, not find some dodgy way to make money from unexpected means.

New Xbox could DOOM XBOX

Fixed.

SONY must be giggling like dizzy schoolgirls by now, as if the meh-launch of the One wasn't enough of a shot in the arm for them.

Last I read (this week) on PS4 is that SONY are leaving it to the publishers to destroy their own games via secondhand taxes rather than mandate anything themselves in the hardware/firmware. So the same as PS3, really. Wise.

The PS4 will have to have something seriously wrong with it or its feature set for me not to buy it and leave my XBOX experience behind with my dusty unused 360. In fact I know my last XBOX is a 360 already and this means that a cheap secondhand One is also no attraction as the games will be paywalled, even if the thing came with a hundred of them.

Just remains to see what this access to streamed pre-PS4 games thing is like. If SONY get that right and allow a physical disk to be a 'key' to online streaming of PS1, 2, 3 titles they've already won before anyone's even seen the console, IMHO.

All this talk of reselling games ignores another large area of the used game market - that of people who pass a game they have finished on to family and friends, for free.

Most of my relatives have Wii's and they constantly swap games around. A few relatives also have Xbox360's and again, games are passed around. I suspect this market is massively overlooked!

Introduce any charge at all, and this exchange is killed off. That won't mean more games are bought, more like less next-gen consoles are bought...

I'm not sure if I have this right

So - if I have a new Xbox1 - and have a couple of games for it - is this article saying that I can NOT take the game around to my friend's house and play it on his Xbox1?

Seriously? If that's the case then providing Sony don't do something as dumb then I think the console war is over and the PS4 will be the new standard.

The biggest flaw I can see with the scheme from Microsoft's perspective, is with games tied so closely to accounts, and with a product aimed at security unaware teenagers and young adults, there's going to be a vast rise in account "theft" between mates. Without some form of lending library mechanism built in, this will end up costing Microsoft a lot more in man-hours dealing with the complaints, or if they don't, from lost sales from bad press

Not to mention the jailbreakers are going to have a field day getting around the DRM restrictions and selling on their hacks.

high street hackers..

I think if this goes ahead we'll be back to the days where you can walk into a store and get your console modded.

Microsoft is already declaring war on the retail market with this, and while all the game stores have been sucking up to the big names over the last decade in order to get larger stock of the hottest new games they'll be quickly switching their business model around if they have any sense.

If modding of a console becomes primarily a method to play games you bought (albeit second hand) then the arguments used to crush it and get lawmakers on-side "it's only used for piracy!!!" will quickly lose all worth and the practice will become the norm again because let's face it, while there are a lot of us out there who do enjoy legitimate homebrew on our systems the current reason for modding is usually piracy.

If a game store can show an entire shelf of 100% legitimate game titles for sale second hand, and offer a £30 service to modify your console to be able to play them (with the warning that you'll lose online functionality) then I expect it to happen.

This could be a game changer and not in the way Microsoft planned.

Love the passion here but I'm not going to get my panties in a twist over something that's not officially confirmed by anyone not to mention that we really don't know all that much about the ps4 either do we? Did Sony even show a working prototype yet?

I'm really disgusted with the greed of Microsoft, so much so I'm considering flogging my 360.

Whilst I rarely buy second hand games, last was SSX for a few days fun over Christmas, my youth was spent buying second hand, trading in old games for new, and swapping games with friends. The inability to loan a game is huge enough. It's certainly going to dent new game sales as much as it restricts second hand... People have budgets. Absolutely ridiculous time to go about this considering the financial climate.

I've not heard anything from Sony yet... I know they patented a RFID system for disks. Did that make it into the PS4. If so they'll earn my ire also.

Luxury product

Games are a luxury product. If you can't afford the product you have no human right to get it by installing from media you obtained without paying the original content creators.

Why should a whole ecosystem exist to allow people to play games without paying the content creators a penny?

All well and good, except...

The problem is that companies, inevitably, will do there darndest to find ways to slither past the spirit of the law. Take MMOs (such as, e.g., World of Warcraft or Guild Wars 2) - where the various terms and conditions and EULAs routinely purport to deny the user the right to sell their game *account*. Sure, you can sell your copy of the game *software*, but the game software alone won't let someone else play the game. To do that you need to a registered account on the game servers (which is created, for example, using the unique key that came with a hard copy of the game, and which, once registered, won't be accepted again). If the game supplier refuses to recognise your right to transfer your *account*, you effectively can't transfer ownership of your copy of the game. I strongly suspect that this, too, is in breach of EU law - but until someone takes it to court and gets a decision in their favour (and some sort of order to enforce it) all the power remains in the hands of the big guys over the little ones. Don't be surprised if Microsoft do something very similar, therefore.

Locking software to an account is nothing new...

I can't sell on my Apple iPhone apps even though I no longer use it.

I can't get money back for all my Android apps I now have.

I can quite happily pass them from device to device as they're locked to my accounts.

What's so different about locking console games to an account?

A move caused by rip-off game retailers

The only reason this is happening is because for decades now, companies like Game and others have been taking a massive slice of publishing profits by reselling games without paying any royalties to the developers.

I buy a game for £40 new release.

I play it and complete it.

I trade it in to Game and get £10 for it (If I am very lucky)

Game promptly resells it for £30 second hand.

Game makes £20 profit.

Developer, publishing house, etc, receive nothing, but lose the sale of a full price first-hand game.

Yes there is the old argument that "I wouldn't have bought it first-hand anyway" but it's not as strong an argument in this case, because chances are we would have bought the game at some point, even if it was a year later when it was on sale.

If there had been a reasonable system implemented over a decade ago where a percentage of profit from resales went to the publishers, this would never have come about. As it was, those companies were basically riding on those sales and raking in what they could. It's now lead to this.