back to article How to destroy a brand-new Samsung laptop: Boot Linux on it

Linux users accidentally bricked their new Samsung laptops by booting their favourite open-source OS on the shiny computers. A kernel driver crashes on Sammy machines when users start up from an Ubuntu 12 USB key - although other distributions may be at risk - giving them the dreaded black screen of no activity whatsoever. …

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    1. hplasm
      Meh

      Yeah, I put diesel in my petrol tank ... guess what?

      You can't read?

    2. Annihilator
      Stop

      "Were there any stickers on those machines with "Designed For Linux" on them?"

      Probably not, were there any stickers on it that said "designed for Windows" on it? I've not seen them for some time. The only ones I see are "Windows 7", telling you what software is on it at shipping, or "certified for Windows 8". None of them say "Can only run Windows 7" which would be a strange thing to put on an x86-64 machine. Presumably your understanding would be that it can't run Windows Vista either?

      "Yeah, I put diesel in my petrol tank ... guess what?"

      No, the closest analogy is you put Shell petrol in a Ford Focus, when the sticker on the cap now says "Ford recommends BP"

    3. Anonymous Coward
      FAIL

      "Were there any stickers on those machines with "Designed For Linux" on them?"

      Were there any stickers saying "this is not a general purpose computer" on them?

      Yeah, I put Shell petrol in my petrol tank....turns out it expects Esso.

      1. Wang N Staines
        FAIL

        SO who should I scream at when I bricked my phone trying to upgrade it using a ROM from XDA?

        That's right, the bloody manufacturer for building a phone that I couldn't do to it as I wanted without bricking it.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          A phone isn't supposed to be a computer. A computer runs computer programs. An OS is just a computer program. A computer that breaks when you run some random program on it has a major design flaw.

  1. Longrod_von_Hugendong
    WTF?

    An Apple a day...

    keeps shite korean rubbish away.

    Also, for the windoze tards that cannot read (because of finger prints on the screen maybe?) / didnt bother to read the article, its a firmware issue, not an OS issue.

    1. Silverburn
      Thumb Down

      Re: An Apple a day...

      oooh, massive samsungtard downvote burn onroute to you in 3...2...1....

  2. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Does Samsung support Linux?

    No.

    Did Samsung write the Linux driver that crashes?

    No.

    Did Samsung install Linux?

    No.

    So why is Linux's crashy driver suddenly Samsung's problem? Their product works perfectly well with the OS provided. If you don't like that, buy a different product.

    1. Dazed and Confused

      Re: Does Samsung support Linux?

      So why is Linux's crashy driver suddenly Samsung's problem?

      Because the FW should not be able to be left in a state where it can't reboot. If you can't turn it back on, its a FW bug.

      In the same way that playing different moves in a chess game shouldn't be able to leave the OS unable to boot.

    2. pinch0salt
      Stop

      Re: Does Samsung support Linux?

      There's a difference between Linux plain failing on the hardware and the hardware plain failing when you run Linux!

    3. Phil W

      Re: Does Samsung support Linux?

      @AC Let me just fix that for you?

      Does Samsung support Linux?

      Yes, not specifically on this product but they contribute kernel code.

      Did Samsung write the Linux driver that crashes?

      The code used to compile the module came from Samsung.

      Did Samsung install Linux?

      No. But given they contribute code to the Linux Kernel to make it work with their laptops, perhaps they should of done so to test it?

      If this happened with when installing Windows XP on the laptop, because XP contained an old Samsung driver that broke the UEFI firmware would you be blaming Microsoft or Samsung?

      1. Silverburn
        Headmaster

        Re: Does Samsung support Linux?

        Does Samsung support Linux?

        Yes, not specifically on this product but they contribute kernel code.

        So...no.

        Did Samsung write the Linux driver that crashes?

        The code used to compile the module came from Samsung.

        And naturally Samsung had the massive vision to write code into this module for a product it probably never even knew it was going to build at the time, or even that it had Linux visions for.

        But given they contribute code to the Linux Kernel to make it work with their laptops, perhaps they should of done so to test it?

        Newsflash: Contributing to the kernel != automatic, full support for all Linux builds on all products.

        If this happened with when installing Windows XP on the laptop, because XP contained an old Samsung driver that broke the UEFI firmware would you be blaming Microsoft or Samsung?

        Neither. XP isn't supported either, from what I understand.

        At the end of the day...regardless of what Samsung does on the Linux front, if it says LINUX is not supported on this hardware (or alternatively *only* OS xxxx is), then the risk is entirely yours.

        1. Jordan Davenport

          Re: Does Samsung support Linux?

          At the end of the day...regardless of what Samsung does on the Linux front, if it says LINUX is not supported on this hardware (or alternatively *only* OS xxxx is), then the risk is entirely yours.

          So... What you're saying is... it's still Samsung's fault.

  3. Jay Holmes

    Where is Eadon to tell us how this is all MS's fault??

    Apart from the title. Is there no way of reflashing the chip? And if there is surely it would be in Samsungs best interest to provide this help.

    Customer service seems to be dead these days, with most companies only interested in taking your money there and then. Surely it would make more sense to give continued support/advise so that customer comes back and buys their next product from you. Or is this wishful thinking.

    Final thing where is the rest of the story, we have comments from a Senior Ubunto developer, an Intel developer, but where is the comment from Samsung??

    Quoting an Ubunto developer about what someone, somewhere else who spoke to someone, somewhere at Samsung told him isnt really getting the Samsung story is it??

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Where is Eadon to tell us how this is all MS's fault??

      Why should Samsung do anything? It's not their code, it's not an OS they support and they sell the computers with a perfectly good OS pre-installed.

      What next? WAH! My laptop broke when I used is scuba diving. WAH! Samsung must make it waterproof. FOR FREE! WAH!

      Get a grip, feeetards. YOUR code broke it, YOU have to fix and you should pay for a new laptop.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        My laptop broke when I used is scuba diving

        Not such a good comparison. Better would be that your aqualung broke because you swam in one sea instead of another.

        The big, screaming problem that SAMSUNG (yes, the supplier) has is that it has now created a laptop that can be totally bricked by software alone. Given that the OS it normally supports it's Windows, it can't take long before virus infections appear that will use that vulnerability to screw over even a Windows install.

        There is no way you can start blaming users for wanting to install Linux. Given that users have done this for as long as Linux exists, there is a de facto recovery strategy called "reboot" that Samsung has now broken. If Samsung wants to prevent warranty claims it should fit a VERY large sticker on the machine stating "DOES NOT SUPPORT LINUX"..

        Personally, I would not touch this laptop with a 10 foot pole.

      2. tom dial Silver badge
        FAIL

        Re: Where is Eadon to tell us how this is all MS's fault??

        It is doubtful that Samsung "support" Windows in any meaningful sense beyond putting it on the disk.

        UEFI secure boot, I thought, was intended to prevent corruption of the boot process in addition, of course, to the primary goal of preventing installation of alternative operating systems.

      3. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        AC@13:34 Re: Where is Eadon to tell us how this is all MS's fault??

        "Why should Samsung do anything? It's not their code, it's not an OS they support and they sell the computers with a perfectly good OS pre-installed."

        Soerry you didn't manage to read the comments before writing your bollocks about not being their code.

        I know they sell their computers with an operating system) because UNLESS you pay over the odds or build your own (DIY laptops) we have to pay for the shite that's sold with it.

        Whether or not is is 'perfectly good' is something only an MS user (I use the word 'user' advisedly) would claim.

  4. Gio Ciampa
    FAIL

    Ubuntu 12 ???

    Never heard of it...

    Oh.. you mean (from the article) Precise Pangolin 12.04 - where the 12 stands for the year...

  5. Destroy All Monsters Silver badge
    Windows

    EFI crap...

    Manufacters haven't managed to issue adequate BIOS code for over 20 years (bad, slow, crap, user-unfriendly and unfit for purpose are just some adjectives)

    They decide to up the complexity.

    Guess what happens...

    This is just the beginning!

    1. Christian Berger

      Particularly considering what already existed

      I mean they could have gone for "Open Firmware" which would have given them things like CPU architecture independent drivers and a powerful shell.

      EFI is really a huge step backwards from the state of the art.

  6. Daniel B.

    My god it's full of shills

    MS astroturfing. Nice.

    Now let's see, what would these shills say if a virus were to reweite the Win8 EFI loader, taking advantage of this particular bug and brick the Samsung laptops when booting Win8?

    I'm old enough to remember the Chernobyl/CIH virus. Motherboard designs were changed after that, so why should Samsung dismiss this as "freetard tinkering"?

  7. Phil W

    Perspective

    I've posted a few replies so far, but I wanted to summarise in a post of my own.

    The code for linux kernel module that causes this was supplied by Samsung.

    This could just as easily have happened when installing a different edition Windows than the one supplied, if there were drivers included from Samsung from a previous product that broke a current one.

    Apart from in a small number of circumstances, driver software should not be able to break hardware. Not because of the driver code but because the design of the firmware.

    A few years back there was a similar incident with Intel network cards that used the e1000e module, again code from the manufacturer.

    1. pPPPP

      Re: Perspective

      You're talking far too much sense for this comments page.

      Yes, there should be a way to update firmware using a booted operating system of some sort. Ideally booting from the firmware itself should be the only way.

      The Linux haters seem to have their daft opinions, but there's no reason why an MS driver couldn't have done this, or malware for that matter. Someone at Samsung needs to rethink their implementation.

      The Linux haters in this case are idiots. They're no better than the Linux lovers and Apple bitches who can't see through their own prejudice and insist that malware and bugs are only found on Windows.

      The problem's the firmware. It will be fixed.

      1. Bob Camp

        Re: Perspective

        I don't generally like Linux (jack of all trades, master of none), but I generally agree with what's in your post. Note that the driver was written by someone on the Linux kernel team based on code from Samsung (see post #3): http://forums.opensuse.org/english/get-technical-help-here/install-boot-login/482848-booting-linux-uefi-bricks-samsung-laptops-how-do-i-get-around.html . So now it's a game of finger pointing.

        But I can't help but think this problem would have been caught in testing and immediately fixed had Samsung fully supported Linux. Samsung would have tested and caught this bug if it was happening in Windows. That's what "supported OS" means. It's highly doubtful that a released MS driver would have done this -- this bug is so obvious that any test would have caught it.

        I think everyone is shocked because the idea that you can try out Linux (or any other non-supported OS) on your PC without harming anything just went out the window.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Perspective

          @Bob Camp

          Surely the manufacturers of the various components in a Samsung computer (including Samsung) send drivers to MS for testing.

    2. Andy ORourke
      Pint

      Re: Perspective

      Come on Phil, You've been round here long enough to know that the Anti-linux crowd on El Reg would have read these words from the article "Linux...... Bricked.......... Laptop" and that would have been enough, no need to read the whole thing to find out what I call "The facts"

      I wish we could all just get along, why cant we all just be nice to each other?

      Have a beer on me

    3. TeeCee Gold badge
      Meh

      Re: Perspective

      An obvious point here is that, if cacked firmware permanently screws the device, what happens when the thing glitches in the midst of a firmware update?

      As I said, if it's updateable at all in software, a recovery process for when that inevitably goes titsup is a must have.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        WTF?

        Re: Perspective

        This is why most laptop BIOS updaters insist on high battery charge and AC supply to perform an update, they are doing everything they can to avoid a power glitch at an inappropriate moment.

        Old Intel PC motherboards used to come with a jumper that could put you into BIOS recovery mode with an 8K read-only part of the flash chip that could boot to the point where it could reload the BIOS image from a floppy. Not sure why there isn't some emergency mode available to allow a reflash of Samsung's laptop firmware.

        1. Dave 126 Silver badge

          Re: Perspective

          Though not a laptop, my mate's recent Gigabyte motherboard boasts two BIOSs, one at least is UEFI (don't know what the backup BIOS is, we haven't had need of it).

          [As if to take a pop at the Koreans, the motherboard has written on it "Japanese Capacitors"- reassuring, since the aged Dell Optiplex it replaced died of blown MB capacitors, allegedly the result of incomplete industrial espionage]

  8. Herbert Meyer
    Linux

    other distributions

    I bought a new Samsung 305 laptop to replace a 2003 Dell with a lowgrade Nvidia graphics controller that can run neither recent Ubuntu nor Fedora desktops (except for XFCE).

    I installed Fedora 18, after pushing the Win7 installed on it out of the way. No problems so far (2 days), but UEFI is not turned on or needed. I even found good artwork for the desktop, a spherical cow at the origin, from Berkley.

    Anybody want a old Dell, runs XP real well ?

  9. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Even though it may be unlikely...

    Consider that a Windows 9 could have the same problem. If Samsung didn't lock out the BIOS from an OS incursion, then your re-install disc/usb drive could cause problems because all of the hdd's are imaged and there is always the possibility that the original could have problems if the BIOS were ever updated. Would updating the BIOS negate an older version of the OS that came with the machine and require an install of an SP version?

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      1. NukEvil
        FAIL

        You want to know something?

        You talk too much.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        FAIL

        Re: Hardly a shock

        What did you expect?? A raft of sympathetic applause?

        You post some dubious statement with no supporting evidence then bitch when downvoted.

        Have another...

  11. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Ubuntu

    getting more like windows every day

  12. billium
    Happy

    The ACs got alot of bites from this thread. If any of them are serious, I hope they are not in technical jobs.

    Wonder how long before the Chernobyl/CIH/Sammy strikes?

  13. Richard 120

    Closed

    I'm surprised how many people are so willing to accept this Closed ecosystem, the Walled Garden as I have heard it termed.

    Peronally I blame Apple, and to a slighly lesser extent Microsoft, oh and Sony too.

    I remember when you bought hardware and you had to either boot off a floppy, or install the OS yourself to a 10Mb hard disk, you might have been supplied with an OS, but you could pick which one you wanted.

    A lot of people here expect that when you buy a computer that you have to use the OS which is supplied at the time and that if it bricks when you try a different OS then it's your fault, my mind screams WTF?

    What happened to standards, interoperability and choice for the consumer, what has happened with the Samsung product seems to me to be a mistake and a bug in the firmware yet there are a lot of people who seem to think that you shouldn't be able to run a different OS on the laptop and should you attempt to do so then it's acceptable for the motherboard to be damaged.

    The OS won't be overwriting the firmware, just trying to call it's functions, it shouldn't be possible to brick it like that, the firmware should balk at self harm.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Closed

      "What happened to standards, interoperability and choice for the consumer [?]"

      Profit. It's much more profitable not to give any choice, and brainwash uneducated consumers into thinking it's not possible. Better still, try to make them think there is nothing but Windows.

    2. Dana W

      Re: Closed

      Don't blame us, Linux work's great on Macs.

  14. Anonymous Coward
    Flame

    It's Amazing...

    Especially given that this is a technical site, with a technical audience, it's amazing how many people completely fail to understand what is expected by many purchasers of a PC, be it desktop or laptop.

    Believe it or not, you guys, one of those things is the freedom to run a different OS. Yes, that is a reasonable expectation, because more than enough people want to, and do, just that. It might not work. We all know that laptops come with devices that might not be supported --- but it should not kill it. And it certainly should not affect the warranty, because this is a computer, and hey, that's what computers are for.

    To all the ignorant people who love to rant about freetards, and invite flames in return, here's mine: I hope all your linux devices fail today. You'll probably be shocked to discover just how much of a freetard you are. At least it will educate you. Assuming that's possible. Perhaps your brains no longer actually process anythinng that is not said by a consultant or a microsoft salesman. Perhaps you are consultants or MS salesmen.

    Perhaps you'd also all like to consider that all of your "freetards" buying a machine like this have paid for the Microsoft operating system that comes on the machine. Whether they want it or not. Not so "freetarded," eh?

    1. DiBosco
      Linux

      Re: It's Amazing...

      It's also amazing how many of the people calling Linux users Freetards do not understand that the Free we embrace is free as in freedom, not free as in free beer. Quite how that makes you retarded is beyond me.

      If you look at the Humble Indie games takings, the biggest payers are the Linux users, a pretty good indication that Linux users are not cheapskates. I contribute to KDE and my distros of choice and many others do too because I am incredibly grateful that I have an operating system where there is no chance of hiding spyware, no crappy licences and I have the freeDOM to with it what I want.

      1. Christian Berger

        @DiBosco

        This seems to follow a general trend.

        If you ask people why they use Windows, you typically don't get very good answers. The best you get is that they want to "rely on a strong partner", or that they are vendor locked. In many cases you even get the verbal equivalent of flung shit. There are quite a few people proud of never having seen anything else than the last few versions of Windows.

        Linux people usually have more in depth reasons. For example the higher quality of open source software, the longer commitment to maintenance, or at least the lower cost. For technical people Linux has become the default solution. If in doubt install Linux, it'll do the job. Most Linux people also have more knowledge about Windows than most Windows people, even though they usually claim that they just have a very basic understanding of Windows.

        Of course I'm generalizing here, there are also probably Linux fanbois flinging around shit, and Windows geeks who actually love their system for good reasons.

        1. Destroy All Monsters Silver badge
          Gimp

          Re: @DiBosco

          One "relies on a strong partner" when in jail.

          Not earlier.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: @DiBosco

            I haven't met many proud Windows users - either they aren't that technical, and Windows is just what their computer comes with, and they use in their workplace - or they use Windows because the software they use isn't readily available for Linux. Most Windows users i know who are interested enough to actually talk about their OS can recount a thousand frustrations - from bugs to poor design choices.

            I started using PCs when they were still 'IBM compatibles' not 'Windows Machines' and back then you got used to things not working just because they felt like it. Windows has usually improved over different versions- so I guess with each new version us Win users hope that "maybe this MS have nailed it". Oh well.

            I have dabbled in desktop Linux and have found it is not without its issues either, though.

            Here's a thought- if all OSs were fast, reliable, secure and ran all software the user wanted- the main differentiation would be the GUI.

  15. Bill Gould
    Joke

    Samsung

    Samsung makes laptops?

  16. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    @Bill Gould

    "Samsung makes laptops?"

    Apparently not working ones.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: @Bill Gould

      My Core i7 quad core sammy laptop runs just fine thanks. You know, before you slate something, you could at least give it a try or check the figures for failure before spouting crap.

      Want a shitty poorly made laptop, you are spoiled for choice, there's HP, Acer and Asus...

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Linux

        Re My ... sammy laptop runs just fine

        There is no doubt at all that Samung makes some good stuff. I've been sitting in front of a Samsung monitor for the past three years. I have Samsung Air Conditioning machines which, in this tropical part of the world are considered mid-priced, mid-market, but, with the occasional (well, ok, annual, but they are about six years old) repair they work fine.

        Judges may not think Samsung phones are "cool," but I certainly have nothing against them. I don't own one, but wouldn't mind. There are a vast number of people who prefer them (and/or find them more affordable) over the "cool" phone.

        Given their size as parts and screen manufacturers, probably most people have at least a bit of Samsung in their lives.

        I have nothing against Samsung. In this instance, they have appear to have screwed up. They deserve stick for that, and they are getting it. Nobody is vowing to never buy Samsung again. The fact that they are sharing code with linux developers is, in itself, points.

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