back to article New nuclear fuel source would power human race until 5000AD

Since the Fukushima meltdown - as a result of which, not a single person is set to be measurably harmed by radiation - we know that nuclear power is safe. New discoveries by US scientists have now shown it's sustainable as well. That's because US government scientists have just announced research in which they've massively …

COMMENTS

This topic is closed for new posts.

Page:

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      "Fast breeder reactors the way to go. Generate more fissile material than they consume and can extract (in principle) all of the energy contained in Uranium (vs. the 1% extracted by current light water reactors). More expensive than LWRs, more technically challenging and potential Plutonium proliferation risk, but orders of magnitude less radioactive waste. Much of the research has already been done. Initiatives under way internationally, though not on huge scale. Solving any remaining problems likely to be far easier than solving fusion."

      Much more entertaining a post if you imagine it being said by mordin from mass effect.

      1. Midnight

        Or better yet, write it into the script of Time Bandits:

        "Robert, we must plan a new world together. This time we'll start it properly. Tell me about computers."

        "A computer is an automatic, electronic apparatus for making calculations. . .or coherent operations that are expressed in numerical or logical terms."

        "And fast breeder reactors?"

        "Ah! Fast breeder reactors use a fast fission process for the generation of fission isotopes."

        "Be quiet, Benson. Show me more, Benson. Show me, show me, subscriber trunk dialing. I must know everything."

      2. mr-tom
        Trollface

        Works if you Yoda-ise it too.

        Yoda would be a great advocate for nuclear power. He's both green and glowy.

  1. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Thorium cycle a strong option

    The alternative thorium cycle nuclear power system has an even more abundant fuel source, and generates less waste, with a much shorter half-life. China is investing heavily in this, and the US ought to as well.

    I suspect the heavily invested reactor companies are pushing an agenda to stay with Uranium, since they won't need to change much, and I suspect DoE goes along with that as being short-term pragmatic, and also they are heavily invested. Still, we need to look. It may make nuclear power more acceptable to the Greens.

    Nuclear power is the only way to go. Wind power is out. It's way too expensive, and subject to the weather. Coal and oil are out, because they'll run out (long before AWG fries us, incidentally). Fusion is still science fiction. And sun power doesn't work for Britain.

    1. NomNomNom

      Re: Thorium cycle a strong option

      I like wind turbines. Can't we compromise and have nuclear powered turbines? Or at least let the turbines power the grabber that picks up the fuel rods?

    2. Tom 35
      Trollface

      Re: Thorium cycle a strong option

      They just have to wait for China to get it working then they can buy a Chinese reactor at Walmart.

  2. David Webb

    Since the Fukushima meltdown - as a result of which, not a single person is set to be measurably harmed by radiation - we know that nuclear power is safe

    Is that the same reactor where the people in charge told the people working inside the plant after the incident to hide their radiation detection devices because otherwise the detector would go off pretty darn quickly and the workers would have to stop working? So not a single person? Really?

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-18936831 <-- workers covering detectors with lead

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-19245818 < -- butterflies with severe mutations caused by the radiation, insects were generally considered to be more resistant to radiation

    http://www.stanford.edu/group/efmh/jacobson/TenHoeveEES12.pdf < -- finally a scientific report stating the number of deaths from the incident will be between 15 and 1,350, including people who died during the evacuation as it was too strenuous for their bodies (old people, sick people etc.)

    So that figure for "not a single person", did you pull it at random to suit your article?

    1. NomNomNom

      You need to read more carefully. The article says "not a single person is set to be MEASURABLY harmed by radiation"

      Consider the middle one

      http://withfriendship.com/images/h/36248/Three-wise-monkeys-pic.jpg

    2. Aaron Em

      Between 15 and 1350? They couldn't inflate it any higher than that?

      All you need to do is read their abstract to see how many wild-assed guesses they're using to reach even the minimal estimate they're willing to put their names on. That paper does a great job of supporting Mr. Page's statement! -- if there had indeed been anyone measurably harmed as a result of the Fukushima radiation release, I should think these fellows wouldn't have to stretch as far as they do, to come up with an estimate which doesn't even approach the number of people killed in road accidents in the US over the course of a three-day holiday weekend!

      1. Destroy All Monsters Silver badge

        That Butterfly stuff is interesting indeed.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Screw fission....

          Its the irradiated mutant butterflies flapping their wings we've got to worry about now.

      2. Philip Lewis
        Boffin

        Re: Between 15 and 1350? They couldn't inflate it any higher than that?

        .. or the number of people drowned, crushed, electrocuted or otherwise terminated by the earthquake/tsunami combo that caused it all.

    3. peter_dtm
      FAIL

      duh - it werent the radiation wot killed them

      quote you Mr Webb

      http://www.stanford.edu/group/efmh/jacobson/TenHoeveEES12.pdf < -- finally a scientific report stating the number of deaths from the incident will be between 15 and 1,350, including people who died during the evacuation as it was too strenuous for their bodies (old people, sick people etc.)

      end quote

      lets look at that in slow motion ...

      including people who died

      ---->>>> during the evacuation as it was

      ---->>>>> too strenuous for their bodies (old people, sick people etc.)

      It was the needless evacuation that killed those people. Exmoor; Dartmoor and N Wales are more radioactive than the Fukushima area.

      XKCD radiation chart is mentioned above - go look at it

  3. BlinkenLights
    Mushroom

    Radioactive Oceans

    There's Uranium in the oceans!!! Why are they just telling us this now!

    The environmental and green groups are going to be up in arms demanding we clean it all up.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Radioactive Oceans

      It's time we started rounding up all the whales and putting them in aquariums for their own safety!

  4. Anonymous Coward
    FAIL

    "Anti-nuclear people have always argued that the something had better not be nuclear..."

    Well I don't know about other people, but dealing with the waste and the explosive risks of fission have always rated higher on my scale of worry.

    1. Ru

      "explosive risks"

      Eh? Fission reactions don't blow up power plants, steam pressure does. But that's pretty academic. The thing to worry about is fire because it produces lots of radioactive smoke that spreads downwind nicely. Look at Windscale; no explosions there.

      You'll get bigger explosions out of oil, gas and other refined fossil fuel storage facilities than you will out of a nuke plant.

  5. Aitor 1

    Errr wrong.

    Many plant workers have surpassed the maximum reasonable radiation levels. By far!!

    Therefore, many will die.

    Coal is way more dangerous (and radioactive), but nuclear power does have its problems.

    As for best energy source, I agree with you: go nuclear, and go breeder/thorium/heavy metal.

    1. itzman

      Re: Errr wrong.

      Er wrong. Only one worker has passed the legal annual limit for radiation. No one will die.

      'Maximum reasonable radiation' is probably about 10-100 times the legal maximum. In any case.

    2. HMB

      Re: Errr wrong.

      "Many plant workers have surpassed the maximum reasonable radiation levels. By far!!

      Therefore, many will die."

      You're just asserting this as the truth? Do you mean they exceeded the 100mSv?

      Do you know what the risk factors are from that?

  6. Ryan 7
    Coat

    There's plenty more fission the sea.

    /coat

    1. John Smith 19 Gold badge
      Thumb Up

      Re: There's plenty more fission the sea.

      +1 Excellent

  7. itzman

    Get the numbers right

    Select avg(nuclear)/avg(wind) from day;

    +------------------------+

    | avg(nuclear)/avg(wind) |

    +------------------------+

    | 6.03873279596952 |

    +------------------------+

    So nuclear power on average is 6 times higher than wind.

    select avg(nuclear)/avg(demand) from day;

    +--------------------------+

    | avg(nuclear)/avg(demand) |

    +--------------------------+

    | 0.201886008883179 |

    +--------------------------+

    and is exactly 20% of our average demand, over a year and a half of 5 minute samples

    htt[://gridwatch.templar.co.uk

    1. Aaron Em

      Re: Get the numbers right

      Damn that Gridwatch is nice. Wish we had something like it here in the States.

    2. PlacidCasual

      Re: Get the numbers right

      That grid watch link is some really nice data mining of the BM reports website. I've used BM reports for years now but that really clearly shows some of the more impenetrable data very very clearly. It's a shame they haven't reformatted the current and predicted electricity margin data because that is quite telling at times.

  8. roger stillick
    Joke

    Ural Mountains Nuclear Disaster

    Covering the Ocean with Magic Plastic Film will save the Earth for 5000 years ??

    and the plastic is made from petro-chemicals and burned to extract the Uranium...

    Google=Ural Mountains Nuclear Disaster

    1. Destroy All Monsters Silver badge
      Big Brother

      Re: Ural Mountains Nuclear Disaster

      We have these in the West at smaller scale. Directly behind the hopital, really.

  9. brainwrong
    Facepalm

    Processing seawater

    Is it possible to process 1.3 billion cubic kilometers of seawater in 6500 years?

    Thats 22.8 km^3 per hour, how much power needed to pump that through the extraction plants?

    Also, where do you put the depleted seawater so as not to dilute the remaining water even more?

    I wouldn't be surprised if even the natural ocean currents take longer than that to circulate most of the water.

    If only we could stop trying to apply capitalism to everything we try to do then maybe we could do nuclear properly, with real security, over-engineering, breeder reactors, research, open international co-operation for the benefit of all, and probably lots of other stuff needed too. But that's all expensive and politically unpaletable, and it'll be a long time before we're in enough shit for that to change.

    Yeah, I know I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one. see first bit of comment.

    1. perlcat
      Black Helicopters

      Re: Processing seawater

      Argh. More fundamental misunderstanding of capitalism.

      Capitalism is descriptive. "I value X more than Y, so I am willing to pay more for X." Capitalism exists even in the deepest darkest socialist economies. (AKA Black Market).

      If we as a society value keeping lights on more than having them off, we will find a way. We may not anticipate the exact way, but eventually someone will find a way, and allowing them to get filthy rich is actually a small cost in comparison to the benefit. Punishing people for coming up with clever solutions is not effective in the long run, which is why socialism tends to be less successful than a society that encourages capitalism.

      Good example IRL. I know somebody that knows where a mineral is. It is in the control of a socialist economy. If he tells them they have it, and where it is, they may give him $30,000/year as a worker bee. He says "Screw it. Why bother? If the mineral yield is expensive/poorer than anticipated, they'll be after my hide, and if it works, I get a paltry sum." I agree.

      You are thinking in terms of the technology you "know", and not of the drive to develop a new technology when you throw out your "it'll never work because the numbers are too big" argument. The failure to develop profound new technologies is endemic to socialist economies, by the way, as they all devolve into bureaucracies, and there is no better way to smother growth than to have 10,000 GS-5's go after innovation because it challenges their place in the hierarchy of things...

      Just as an example, assuming they set up the filter using a small portion of the Gulf Stream flow, your entire argument sequence falls apart. (I'm not saying that's the best plan -- wouldn't want to screw up the climate changes the Gulf Stream brings to northern Europe, for just one thing)

      1. Charles 9

        Re: Processing seawater

        But that last sentence is exactly where capitalism goes rampant. In pursuit of the edge, especially in markets where potential advantages are few, people become willing to go outside the rules of civilized behavior to get that edge. It is rampant, even predatory, capitalism that is at least partly to blame for today's financial difficulties. Somewhere along the way, you need someone to call out, "Wait a minute!" and keep the system within the bounds of civilized behavior.

        As for innovations, I recall a number of technological innovations and successful firms coming from Scandinavia: countries well-reputed for their strong socialist systems. How is that possible? Is it because they're not as socialist as people believe or that socialist countries can produce some good stuff with the right motivation (even the Soviets in their day came up with things--especially military things--that garnered a reputation even in the west).

        1. perlcat
          Black Helicopters

          Re: Processing seawater

          "Somewhere along the way, you need someone to call out, "Wait a minute!" and keep the system within the bounds of civilized behavior."

          This is what governments are for. They bridge the gap between what is most economic and what we as a society want. That is why we don't resolve liability issues with weregild.

          However, to say that you should have all of one or the other is like building an airplane that is all wing, or all engine. Either way, it won't fly.

          I'm not saying that socialist economies cannot come up with any innovation -- just that they tend to kill it off more than a country that acknowledges capitalism and leverages it. We *are* after all, flying into space on Russian rockets.

          1. Vic

            Re: Processing seawater

            > This is what governments are for.

            Eh?

            It's those bastards that don't seem to understand what civilised behaviour is :-(

            Vic.

        2. Destroy All Monsters Silver badge
          FAIL

          Re: Processing seawater

          Hello?

          "Even the Soviets in their day came up with things--especially military things--that garnered a reputation even in the west"

          I would hope so. Unfortunately, produced by slave labor. And only for one market: the state.

          I don't know why people are complaining about capitalism, then pointing to Soviet or National Socialist Reality with > 80 million dead people and burned down economies as something to emulate. Jesus.

          "It is rampant, even predatory, capitalism that is at least partly to blame for today's financial difficulties."

          Actually not. It's mainly due to unsound money and economic intervention of the stupid sort.

  10. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    we know that nuclear power is safe

    http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn20305-caesium-fallout-from-fukushima-rivals-chernobyl.html

    "The bigger worry concerns caesium-137, which has a half-life of 30 years and could pose a health threat for far longer"

  11. Anonymous Coward
    Thumb Up

    everything other than nuclear is SAFE !!!!!

    and people don't die of lung disease due to the particulates that come of of diesil fumes,

    and the vehicles full of petrol , kerosene never burst into flames and burn their occupants.

    crossing the road is safe, no one ever dies crossing the road.

    and aeroplanes never drop out of the sky, killing all their occupants..

    but nuclear power , well that has killed MILLIONS .

    okay , I might just be a little bit sarcastic above .

    Now seriously from what I can tell the general populace is really crap about measuring risk.

    Otherwise why would you have people who will not get into an aeroplane, yet will still happily cross the road ?

    Last time I looked, a lot of people die getting run over , or in car crashes. Way more than ever die in plane crashes.

    What is my point. well nuclear power has some downsides, but it also if it is done properly it has a lot of upsides, and anything with controllable risks that gets our dependence off very finite oil and gas supplies and doesn't leave us in energy poverty like wind power will is quite probably a good idea.

    Also , all the people who live near granite rock , well you better move coz you're getting lungfuls of radon gas EVERY day.

    1. asdf

      Re: everything other than nuclear is SAFE !!!!!

      Man made diesel more than likely won't be around to kill life a million years after we are gone though.

      1. Destroy All Monsters Silver badge

        Re: everything other than nuclear is SAFE !!!!!

        But asteroids will, as well as black holes and supernovae.

      2. Aaron Em

        "won't be around to kill life a million years after we are gone"

        Yep. Just like there's no wildlife within thirty kilometers of Pripyat -- oh, wait...

  12. This post has been deleted by its author

  13. asdf
    FAIL

    preach on brother beavis

    Lewis's energy opinion pieces are rarely worth reading but I do enjoy reading the comments as his congregation gather and build their beloved echo chamber.

    1. Fibbles
      FAIL

      Re: preach on brother beavis

      An echo chamber of well researched arguments? Come back when you've actually got a counter argument that works.

    2. asdf

      Re: preach on brother beavis

      > Come back when you've actually got a counter argument that works.

      Why? Its like trying to tell a born again how silly it is to worship a 2000 year old Jewish zombie. A complete waste of breath.

      1. asdf

        Re: preach on brother beavis

        And you if you drew a venn diagram in the west between the two you would find a remarkable overlap among the two groups.

  14. Mick Russom
    WTF?

    Huh? we know that nuclear power is safe

    " we know that nuclear power is safe"

    Yeah, the world is black and white. Give me a break. Everyone sleep tight, Lewis Page says nuclear power is safe, and the exclusion zone in the chernobyl area is safe to grow food in now.

    1. asdf

      Re: Huh? we know that nuclear power is safe

      >and the exclusion zone in the chernobyl area is safe to grow food in now.

      Ukrainian officials estimate the area will not be safe for human life again for another 20,000 years.

      I know who I would trust if deciding on building a house in the area.

  15. Boyd Crow

    Stanford study contests "harmlessness" of Fukishima

    A Stanford study has found that, contrary to the findings of a U.N. study group, more than 1000 people can expect to die prematurely due to exposure to radiation from Fukishima. Since some of the workers at the plant did not even HAVE dosimeters, the threats to their health cannot be determined. Let's not celebrate just yet.

  16. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

    We need cheaper steel

    The limit on building nuclear power plants is the application process and accompanying paperwork.

    The mass of paperwork needed to build a plant is larger than the mass of the final plant, the mass of paper clips and staples in the paper work is larger than the mass of fuel it will use during it's life.

    If we can reduce the cost of the steel used in the paperclips and staples we can make nuclear power profitable again !

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: We need cheaper steel

      The limit on building power plants in the U.S. for the last ten years is the inability to find insurance companies who will provide coverage at what builders consider "reasonable rates". The insurance companies have facts and figures from nuclear plants and liability suits from around the world. They tend to be conservative, shouldn't we be conservative, also?

  17. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Quick political question

    Will this energy be available to everyone?

    Say - Iran and North Korea?

  18. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Oh God, it's Page again.

Page:

This topic is closed for new posts.