back to article Door creaks and girl farts: computing in the real world

A few weeks ago I dissed the expensive new Apple MacBook Pro for trading a downgraded component spec in return for a pretty display and solid-state memory. In passing, I gave an example of this downgrade: the lack of a CD drive. Several readers helpfully commented that they hadn’t used CD media in ages and wouldn’t miss an …

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  1. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    You know...

    ... i started reading and I thought you were having a ridiculous moan, (some corporations remove CD/DVDs and switch off USB on machines to help stop viruses coming in) As I read on, I realised you do, however, have a point.

    Much of our networking and telephony equipment still falls back to a serial console cable should all else fail; and the hardware that is easiest to hulk around the site to take to the edge stacks is ... surprise surprise ... a laptop.

    Many machines don't come with serial ports any more and those that do, seem to have some form of crazy hardware implementation going on that causes XP to report that the port is already in use when you even try to use hyperterm; the same happens with some USB/serial converters as well, and yet other of these devices have caused the creation of a brand new COM port with every boot.

    With my CD drive dying in the car, I bought an SD/USB-FM player for a fiver, (saved me a three figure sum for a new stereo and a replacement face plate to fit a standard stereo in a non-standard car) but as long as CD/DVD/BluRay beats solid state for mass production costs, then disk is here to stay.

    I have had a number of pieces of equipment (most notably PDAs) that were rendered useless when COM ports vanished from laptops. You couldn't hulk a desktop around when you worked out of a suitcase in foreign hotels.

    There is only one solution to the problem that I have found ... which is that if the unit doesn't come with the features that you want ... then don't buy it. Spend your money with someone else instead and let the thoughtless manufacturers rot in hell.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: You know...

      USB serial port adapters are el cheapo these days. How much legacy crap do you want - why no token ring, what about this SCSI device I want to plug in??

      Windows XP - you make me laugh.

      Why not write to Tesco and complain as there is no water trough for your horse?

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: You know...

        Writing crap like that, no wonder you had to stay anonymous!

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: You know...

        You know, I sat and thought on your ridiculous response and thought... what the heck, even dippos like you deserve a response.

        Firstly, you failed to read teh part when the USB serial ports don't work, one of them even causing a fresh logical COM port to appear every time the machine rebooted.

        Secondly, if you have a spare seven figure sum in your bank account, then you can throw it my way to replace a networking and telephony system.

        Thirdly, even new switches come with COM ports for console.

        Fourth, we use what the business dictates we use. You're laughing at the wrong person and, if you happen to be a UK tax payer, then you can laugh at yourself, my friend.

        Fifth and finally, I have no reason to write to Tesco as I don't have a horse. When you made those stupid comments, it was clear that you were riding it out of Sanity Ville.

        Don't get saddle sore on the ride out.

        1. LinkOfHyrule
          Pint

          Windows XP - you make me laugh.

          I use windows XP on a 6 or 7 year old PC daily - you must be pissing your pants. I bet your desk chair stinks, the amount of urine that must pass through it on a daily basis when you laugh so hard at all your co-workers using their laughable computer systems.

        2. Richard 12 Silver badge
          Unhappy

          Re: You know...

          You need a better USB-Serial adapter then.

          The real problem with these USB serial ports is that most don't actually support all the signalling lines and 'standard' baud rates. It's really hard to tell whether or not a given one will work either.

          If your device needs 9600/8-N-1 and no flow control, you'll be fine. Anything else...

          The quality is also extremely variable - I've used some really great ones and some real dogs.

  2. Dave 126 Silver badge

    Some plusses:

    Infra-red: Intuitive line of sight, doesn't cause interference, starts instantly, fairly easy to set up, works with all the old kit.

    Optical: Resilient to drops, moisture, magnetic fields; was once ubiquitous, cheap media.

    I don't see the need on a new Retina Macbook, though- its OSX is onna stick, and any video professional who pays the asking price is going to use it with external redundant storage anyway.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Some plusses:

      Optical - CDs are pretty large now for the amount of data they hold - DVDs are not much better. All optical media can get dirty and scratched easily. Slow to read / write and access the data compared to USB devices.

      IR - does not always work reliably in bright rooms and of course is only line of slight - I can control my Apple TV in the lounge from the kitchen (if I wanted to).

      1. Nigel 11
        Thumb Down

        Re: Some plusses:

        You could always buy 8cm mini-CDR and even mini-DVD-RW disks. Most drives can hack them. Smaller capacity, of course.

        Slower? Hardly. DVD 16x is 22 Mbytes/second. Most USB thumb-drives are slower, at least when writing. Kingston Data Traveller Hyper-X 16Gb is 16Mb/s write, 25Mb/s read, and that's a premium model. Cheap ones are often around 5Mb/s.

        1. Snafu 2

          Re: Some plusses:

          Plus only a few USB sticks come with read-only switches..

        2. Steve Todd
          Stop

          @Nigel 11

          You do realise that when a DVD drives says that is 16X, thats the PEAK speed. Depending where you are on the disk surface transfer speeds can fall to 1/2 of that.

          That aside, the real problem with DVDs for speed is the time they take to spin up and seek to the right piece of data. USB flash is almost instant. With DVD it can take more than 10 seconds to spin up and 0.1 to 0.2 seconds per seek.

        3. Mark 65

          Re: Some plusses:

          "Slower? Hardly. DVD 16x is 22 Mbytes/second. Most USB thumb-drives are slower, at least when writing."

          Nigel, Nigel, Nigel. Please navigate to the following link before issuing such statements...

          http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/charts/usb-thumb-drive-charts/Copy-Benchmark-Images-Write,2301.html

          The top drive on there has a 139MB/s write speed. Although that requires USB 3.0 you can be sure that it is capable of saturating a USB 2.0 port. In short, modern USB sticks shit all over optical media. Installing an OS from one is so much quicker. I don't even agree that cheap sticks are poor - you can easily get some that outperform the named brands. What is certain is that it can be a minefield if you don't research it first.

  3. Lallabalalla
    Thumb Up

    Oh yes

    I always carry a USB floppy drive around, just in case.

  4. Peter H. Coffin

    I consult. It is MY JOB to make things easier for clients. That means that yes, there is a USB DVD drive in my bag of kit. There's even a USB floppy drive in that bag of kit. Along with a couple USB 802.11a/b/g/n gizmos and a couple of spare card readers in case someone needs to show me something on a CF card. Instead of complaining about what modern hardware does without, I prepare to do with. Do I need that all the time? No. But when I do, I look like fasking GENIUS for having it along.

    1. Rampant Spaniel

      Sweet jesus, a consultant with common sense, I'm shocked the others haven't tried to off you yet.

      But seriously, you are entirely correct. The points made above about usb to serial adapters and network comms gear are valid, but for the vast majority of folks, especially those the retina is aimed at, they either won't miss the superdrive or will buy an external drive. For those bitching about the size of external drives, whilst you can get 5 1/4 inch sized external drives, you can also get ones that use laptop size format drives making them a lot smaller and usually powered from the usb.

    2. Nigel 11

      If you want a random client to upgrade you to demigod, also carry around a USB to SATA adapter and a stand-alone Linux distro with ddrescue on it. Then when you hear about someone who has lost data on a disk drive that's making clicking noises, ddrescue it. It doesn't always work, some drives die too quickly, but you sure gain a believer when it does work!

  5. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    The real world?

    Are we talking about computing in the working world or the retirement village? The tech world moves at a tremendous pace - you either change and adapt or drop out. I can't remember when I last saw data brought in on a CD/DVD; maybe 5-6 years ago? And only Microsoft still installs an OS or software from DVD (and that finally looks like changing too).

  6. ravenviz Silver badge
    Joke

    "People of Earth, the time has come to mature as a civilisaton"

    You've 'gort' to be kidding!

  7. Dr. Ellen
    Holmes

    Belt and suspenders

    I keep old stuff. Old media, old programs, old computers. I don't necessarily use the old stuff every day -- but I have a USB floppy drive and a USB DVD drive. (I gave up on the 5 1/4 inch drives some while ago, and have never messed with 8 inch drives.) So I can get away with a netbook, and still install programs from CD or DVD, or even read old floppies -- but I don't have to carry the drives around with me. For *that* I can use SD cards and thumbdrives.

  8. HalfNice

    The past isn't dead. In fact, it isn't even past.

    I love rediscovering old CDs at boot sales (am I the only one with a shameful addiction to 80s & 90s music?) and ripping them to my PC for transfer to my phone. So, even though I am as cutting edge as the next geek, I still need a CD drive, thank you very much.

  9. TakeTheSkyRoad

    Things I need a CD drive for...

    Windows reinstalls : Yes you can boot from USB but my windows dics are CD/DVDs (no I don't want to use Linux)

    Backups : USB is great as a quick dirty method of shifting files but I've had enough fail to show it's not reliable. At this point someone will suggest backing up to the cloud but burning my photos to CD is FAR easier.

    Games : Sure there's Steam etc now but many games most come on disc (with nasty copy protection)

    Actually that's it but those are REALLY important.

    I have a Acer W500 windows tablet pc with no drive and it's a pain, the games I've bodged by making ISO images but that only works with the older games. Backups I can do with my main PC so that's fine but if I want to reinstall it one day I really hope it detects and boots from a USB Drive nicely.

    Maybe I'm slow to change since I still have a floppy drive fitted and I really haven't needed that in years, not since the windows install stopped needing to read the controller drivers on install.... it's nice to have it there though

    1. TakeTheSkyRoad

      Re: Things I need a CD drive for...

      I think much of my thinking is based around having many USB Drives fail on me so I just don't trust them. Also they are not a complete solution at the moment so one day I will completely retire my optical drive but not yet.

  10. Phil Endecott

    Backups

    I bet that the user who says they've not used a CD for a year has also not made a backup for a year.

    For me, CD/DVD is primarily a write-only archiving medium.

    1. drgonz0
      Meh

      Re: Backups

      How can anyone backup to CD? Get a simple network attached hard drive. Heck get 2 and keep one off site. Stop living in the past. I'd spend all day backing up to CD or DVD for that matter. I've got a sweet jazz drive if you want it you can back up to that. 2 whole gigs makes your CD look like a floppy.

  11. Captain Underpants
    Unhappy

    There's an awful lot of bellendery going on here that basically amounts to "I reckon Solution A is so awesome for all circumstances that I have no problem with Solution B being deprecated despite still being useful and having a different use case".

    Providing the option of a laptop or desktop with no integrated optical drive is one thing, insisting on its absence in the latest model for no real reason another thing entirely ("Oh, it's thinner" is not a feckin' compelling reason on a 15" laptop, especially one whose chassis design was already at the lightweight end of the spectrum). I'm amazed at the people suggesting that those who need them "just buy/use dongles" - the entire point of wanting integrated components is to not have to carry a load of annoying peripherals around! I'm not sure what's so hard about this.

    Oh, and for that matter - if the laptop costs the best part of two grand and has deprecated an onboard option that every other bloody vendor still has as an onboard option, then too %^&*ing right the vendor should throw it in as a freebie. Trying to go for the Ryanair "no-frills" sales pitch doesn't work when you're charging premium prices.

  12. Charlie Stross
    FAIL

    My Retina Macbook Pro so DOES have gigabit ethernet ...

    ... It came with a Thunderbolt to GigE adapter in the box. (Came in right handy for that very first 200Gb Time Machine backup ...)

    In addition, the rMBP works absolutely fine with the bog-standard Apple USB Superdrive they've been selling for yonks for the Macbook Air and Mac Mini (server model -- which has no internal optical drive, due to having a second hard disk).

    Shorter version: if you want a lighter 15" Macbook Pro AND all the girly-fart features, you need to carry a small bag of peripherals. Or you can travel light and use Bluetooth file transfer or DropBox or something.

    1. Captain Underpants
      Meh

      Re: My Retina Macbook Pro so DOES have gigabit ethernet ...

      @Charlie: I grudgingly concede that being able to shave a couple of pounds off a 15" MBP is worth it to some folks (not to me, but then I've managed to avoid re-calibrating my internal value for "heavy laptop" since the cheapy Dell I had years ago, whose weight was forgiven on the basis that it cost very very little indeed).

      However, when you're having to re-introduce something like wired ethernet (where real-world wireless transfer rates are still orders of magnitude slower than real-world gig-e transfer rates) with a dongle, it means the vendor's done something a bit silly. It was silly but kind of understandable with the Air, but with the rMBP it just seems daft. It's a bit cheeky to say "Device X has function Y" when what you actually mean is "Device X plus peripheral Z has function Y".

      It should be taken as a given that I feel very much like a luddite right now for disagreeing with Charles Stross in a comment thread...between this and Andrew Orlowski using the term "disruptive technology" with a straight face the other day, I think I may have ended up in the Twilight Zone somehow... o_O

  13. Jeremy Chappell
    Mushroom

    Taken away?!

    Err, his is escaped your notice that Apple still make MacBook Pros that have an optical drive, ethernet port, Firewire 800, Audio In etc... ? Nobody is "taking it away". You can still buy that, IF you need it. You want the new "thin, light, Retina Display"? Fine, then you've got to lose something. Where will the optical drive go? How will the ports attach? (If you take a look inside the new MacBook Pro with Retina Display you'll see that most of the space it taken up by battery, and there just isn't room on the board for more ports)

    You want to "have your cake, and eat it". There is no space to put the things you're asking for. So you have to have a bigger, heavier system and you don't want to add the Retina Display to that because it'll need a bigger battery to drive it and the thing will be really heavy and bulky.

    So you have a choice, thin/light with Retina Display or larger/heavier with optical drive and legacy ports.

    Now shut your potty-mouth, grow up and make a choice like an adult.

  14. johnwerneken
    Meh

    It's called marketing

    It's called marketing. Neither hardware nor software can be sold at a real profit anymore; if money is to be made it's got to be one or more of services, innovation, or sizzle. Hardware devices heterogeneity tends to disappear as margins shrink; this does it, not F'n'g Gorts. (BTW wtf is a Gort?)

    Reminds me of one of the few true features of Windows, the myriad ways of launching a single task. A PITA when trying to teach or learn, but it is how Redmond adds new bells and whistles without (at least immediately) taking away the ones I am used to and rely upon.

    1. Mike Flex

      Re: It's called marketing

      > (BTW wtf is a Gort?)

      Cousin of Robbie.

  15. Sean Timarco Baggaley

    You can't please all of the people, all of the time...

    ... so every manufacturer worth its salt only aims to please some of the people, all of the time. This is why they distinguish between different markets.

    I have no sympathy for Mr. Dabbs, whose article boils down to a very long straw-man that even manages to contradict itself.

    Annoyingly, as this article and many of the posts in this forum thread prove, many of the people these manufacturers DELIBERATELY do not target PERSIST in shoving their tiresome and utterly worthless opinions in everyone else's faces, as if THEIR particularly tiny slice of a market was the only one that mattered. Got news for you: it doesn't. If you think your market really is that big, you've just told us how many gaps there are in it to fill, so get filling and earning those millions you clearly believe the likes of Apple, Dell and HP are missing out on.

    Or, you could just find a manufacturer who makes the product you need, and buy that. Problem solved.

    No need to go pissing and moaning around the internet about how unfair it is that you have to go out of your way to buy computer kit that can support 20-year-old overpriced obsolete shite. Yes, governments can often impose idiotic requirements, but maybe it'd be in ALL our best interests if you explained why they should update their requirements every five years or so, if only to save us taxpayers a bit of money!

    Or you could just nod your head, smugly, while gouging the rest of us for millions instead. I think I can guess which direction your moral compass is pointing in given your actions so far.

    And the best solutions for developing countries are education and development, not handouts of toxic second-hand tat. Try calling the likes of Foxconn in China and asking them to build you a big batch of cheap Android-based tablets with USB sockets and cheap USB keyboards. Given that they're selling cheap Android slabs to the West for well under $100 already, there's really no need to rely on the like of OLPC and their misguided ilk. The Chinese also do a good line in cheap(-ish) solar panels.

    A little less tribalism and religious extremism, and a little more cooperation, would also go a long way.

  16. Charlie Clark Silver badge

    Computers

    What terrible nightmares of the future!

    Any fule no that there is only one real supercomputer: the mighty Orac.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orac_(Blake's_7)

    Blinking lights and pedantic!

  17. rbryanh

    Get Real

    "Let me tell you about this ‘real world’ place…"

    Thank you, Oh Arbiter of The Real, for your pretension and presumption, which provide a reliable indicator of where to stop reading whatever righteous, narcissistic nonsense you're ranting on any given day.

    Welcome to the 21st century, where journalism is first and foremost about the writer's feelings, and emotional bias is the scarf he pins to his helm when galloping off to joust with himself. It's a marvelous thing to observe… the sublime self assurance of the almost-smart.

    Everyone masturbates. Might Mr. Dabbs be persuaded to do so in private?

    1. Alistair Dabbs

      Re: Get Real

      Don't take it so seriously, mbryanh. It's not supposed to be Pulitzer-prize-winning investigative journalism. It's just a light-hearted opinion piece for Friday afternoons, with an open invitation for readers to express their contrary opinions here in the comments. There's really no need to call me a wanker.

      1. Aaron Em

        Re: Get Real

        'Troll', on the other hand...

  18. Paul Crawford Silver badge

    F'in caps lock key?

    Please will somebody realise that caps lock is of little use, and for most non-perfect typists just a source of hassle when you accidentally touch it going for 'A' or similar.

    If dropping anything that is "no longer needed" please get rid of caps lock!

  19. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Retire the old crap

    So should Apple add a 3.5" disk drive to their MacBooks, or 5.25" disks, or a cassette tape interface, or maybe a punched card reader?

    Retiring the old crap is part of progress.

  20. Orv Silver badge
    FAIL

    You actually got IR to work?

    IRDA sounded like such a good idea. I never, in practice, got it to work reliably. I could occasionally get my laptop to sync to my Palm via IRDA, but most of the time it would fail halfway through and I'd end up digging out the cable. Another fun experience was having someone walk between your IR-enabled laptop and your IR-enabled printer, resulting in the printing of gibberish.

    Where I work we still have some electronic door locks that are programmed via IR from a PocketPC, and I get that to work about one try out of three. Any slight misalignment and it gives up, locking the PocketPC and forcing a hard reset.

    1. Soruk

      Re: You actually got IR to work?

      Back in 1999-2002 I used IR to tether my laptop (using a serial IR dongle) to my mobile for internet access, long before tethering was heard of let alone fashionable. Of course it helped a lot that 0845 was inclusive on Everyday 50!

      As for the bright light problem, that was very easily remedied using the cardboard core from a loo roll.

  21. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Forbidden Planet

    Thank you for reminding me of Forbidden Planet. Follow the link to see what Leslie Nielsen looked like when he was young (and alive): http://www.imdb.com/media/rm2261287936/tt0049223

  22. AdamWill
    FAIL

    sigh.

    "I, on the other hand, live in the real world."

    Stopped reading there. People who declare they 'live in the real world' are, without exception, saying 'my experience is the only one that counts and yours is just wrong'.

    The people who buy laptops without optical drives also live in the real world. In their real world, they don't need optical drives. In yours, you do. Neither is invalid; please don't attempt to treat either as such.

    1. ElReg!comments!Pierre
      Holmes

      Re: sigh.

      > "I, on the other hand, live in the real world."

      > Stopped reading there.

      Obviously not.

      1. AdamWill

        Re: sigh.

        Wherever you hid the camera, it must be on the blink, cos really, I did.

  23. Marcus Fil

    DEFINE PROGRESS

    Yes, I was shouting. According to the dictionary on my SuperDrive equipped MBP (cmd C, cmd V):"advance or development toward a better, more complete, or more modern condition". Optional optical media then for those that have to move data across air gaps, because data sticks can't be trusted and wifi would set off alarms (no, really it would). I am taking to Apple to the small claims court for my son's less than durable MBA (cracked screen, of course). The measure of progress is that it replaced his ownership of an ageing PowerBook with a screen that had taken a direct hit from a 5.56 mm cartridge case fresh out of a brand new M4. Now the Geniuses at the 'Bar' (its a long counter, not an optic in sight, sadly) recommend customers buy nice translucent hard shells to protect the effete 'object d'art' that Apple call laptops. What is the point of making it so thin, light and shiny if I must add weight and bulk to aid its survival outside of its designer shipping box? I want a well engineered laptop that runs MacOS, Linux, Unix and Windows at push. Once upon a time Apple made them - until some lotus-eating aesthete decided he/she knew better.

  24. Oninoshiko

    optical media

    I dont have much complaint at loseing optical media, because AS THE AUTHOR POINTED OUT I have all kinds of high-speed access to support me, which does as good (if not better) of a job. The few times I have actually needed optical media, I can just go to the shelf and pull one of the 10 or so USB DVD-ROMs we keep there and use it.

    That said, physical network is something I *DO* use oftain and when I'm out of the office at conferences (hotel wifi useually sucks). This failing makes many recent APPL machines completely worthless.

  25. Richard Cartledge

    You sound like one of those who complains the iphone can't attempt to send a photo with bluetooth.

    1. M Gale

      He's not alone.

      And "just send it as an email attachment" is not a solution, at least not outside the USS Dipshit with its perfectly functioning terabit-level 3-million-G coverage.

      Yes, let's send a bunch of pictures and MP3 files halfway around the world and back again, via spotty 2G/3G will-it-won't-it coverage, to my friend sat 3 feet away from me. Think Different? Yeah, I'm sure a lot of the kids on the short bus think different too.

      Fuxache Apple, support OBEX already. Bluetooth's main uses on a phone is earpieces and file transfers.. unless you have an iPhone, where bluetooth is about half as useful as with everybody else. For no good reason.

  26. saundby

    A Socket 1155 Mobo with Parallel and Serial Ports

    ASUS P8P67-M PRO

    They need to be brought out from IDC headers, but they're there.

    Good for CNC, at least (Gecko G540)

    Personally, I'm looking forward to market bifurcation that sends the consumers out of the real computer market. The low prices on hardware have been nice, but not worth hassles like having hardware "standards" become non-standard after a couple rapid release cycles and hardware product lifetimes shorter than a mayfly's.

    Bring on the fondleslabs for consumers, leave computers to those that compute.

  27. Boris the Cockroach Silver badge
    Unhappy

    Get to the 21st

    century, retire the old crap.

    Great, except some of our trusty robots dont have things like USB, network connections, because industrial equipment has 2 drawbacks to today's modern world of computing

    1. they are fucking expensive... how does £125 000 for a cheapy 5 axis CNC sound? comes complete with an ancient PII pc to run it because the thing is a proven(ish) design and as for upgrading it, the licence that comes with the machine says "No compensation will be paid if the machine throws a wobbley after you install a windows upgrade patch".

    2. they are designed to last.... no 3 year lifespan for these machines, if they dont last at least 12 years, then people wont buy them.

    So you get your new laptop and stick the RS232 cable in the machine and oh, so you buy a RS232-USB cable and find out the machine manufacturer has included custom timings on the port that the USB-232 cable cannot cope with.

    You see there are 2 different areas of the market for Apple et al to cope with, and thats the office/industrial people who want something stable and works, and the normal mass consumer who wants the latest bright shiny thing

    And it seems the bright shiny thing people are winning

  28. Infernoz Bronze badge
    Meh

    USB DVDs, Apple bleeding expensive tech, so use USB sticks

    The trouble with IR is it was serial port slow, needed hardware support, driver support, and just adds hard to justify cost to mass produced portable devices; if you need it on laptops or desktops, you can still get USB IRDA versions.

    The trouble with CD/DVD drives is they run hot, so become an unreliable extra expense, and are completely pointless now that USB versions are available.

    If I need to use CDs/DVDs, the first time I use a USB DVD drive; if I will keep using the disk, I rip an ISO image file and put the ISO on a 2.5" hard drive in special external USB case which can emulate a CD/DVD drive for one of many stored ISO image files.

    Apple are just not practical, dropping Ethernet was damned stupid because WiFi is at best half the speed of even sluggish 100Mbps Ethernet and pitiful compared to 1Gbps Ethernet! The newer higher speed interface is not a decent substitute because the cables are still a way expensive specialist item, as is the hub to bridge to Ethernet.

    Most of the time I use USB sticks; they are tiny, MUCH faster, and can hold many DVDs of data.

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