First signs that the purity of census results may be swayed by internet campaigning emerged this week, as the Twittersphere declared itself opposed to Jediism. Elsewhere, Jewish organisations were urging people to put themselves down as Jewish, in order to increase pressure for more Jewish faith schools. Earlier this week, as …
The reason it matters is...
If there's lots of religious folk (regardless of jedi or not) then high ranking religious folks will be invited, and leave a large bill for the taxi payer. They just lump together all the religious folk.
Thankfully, things seem to be going in a good direction, the last large poll ran suggests less than 60% of the country is religious. 54% christian, of those christians, 36% said religion wasn't important to them :D.
We all donate to the largest religion in the UK anyway when we pay taxes. Or does everyone forget that part of our taxes go to the monarchy, and as such to the head of the Church of England?
Tempted to put Church of Discordia down this year...
Re; British people thinking and acting for themselves...
Yes, 'cos it's not like some organisations have a big old rule book, a big old set of rules and regulations, pillars, tenents or commandments if you will, that they're foisting upon people, is it?
I just went with
(I know, supposed to wait till the 27th, but I'll have more interesting things to do then and I was bored last night)
2 best choices are....<drum roll please>
Church of the Subgenius
Well I've decided...
The only thing that I find more tiresome than loudmouth god botherers banging on about their stupid beliefs are loudmouth "there is no god" botherers banging on about their lack of any.
Accordingly I'll be voting C of E, as they appear to be the only ones with the good grace to shut up for 15 seconds.
Anyone who has a problem with that...has a problem. Like I care...
Fair point. Funnily enough there were some Quakers on my Dad's side of the family...
RE: Well I've decided...
I guess you don't have a telly. Also I hope you get fined for lying on the census.
Just add another Yes/No question:
Tick the box, write it or whatever. The funny part is people who fill in Jedi are just informing their great, great grandchildren what complete pillocks their ancestors were when the census goes public 100 years hence.
It's a protest vote, dummy, because we object to the very fact the question is being asked: why do you find that so hard to grasp?
Well, it's not going to work, is it?
So I should stay in bed on election days? Because whatever I do won't make any difference? Maybe Emmeline Pankhurst shouldn't have bothered doing what she did. Gandhi should maybe have just carried on being a lawyer.
I can't stop laughing....
To equate having your religion recorded as "Other", when the fact that having a religion or not is likely what is being counted, on a voluntary question on a census to chaining yourself to a railing and risking a prison sentence is just too funny.
Refuse to fill in the form until they remove that question and then you may be in the same league...
I bet a lot of nuns will " tick 'Christian' out of habit".
Now there's a thought.
No box for me?
@AC 14.07 - Voting?
Have I misunderstood what the census is going to be used for?
"Other religion" is a vote for more faith schools
The massive increase in funding for faith schools in this country over the last decade has been justified entirely by the high proportion of people who picked a religion on the census. There are a lot of posts on here suggesting putting in "Scientist", "Atheist", "Pastafarian" or even "Smoker" in the other field, but bear in mind you'll be counted as a minority religion, and thus a vote for faith schools.
That's the reason for the BHAs campaign, and why it's important that atheists, agnostics, jedi and devout smokers all pick "No religion".
Atheism = No god
To say you're agnostic is a cop out. Everyone must be agnostic because you cannot possibly know whether a 'god' (whatever that may mean) exists or not. You either believe this stuff or you don't. Jedi is so last decade, so it's got to be 'no religion' this time. Atheism is not a religion - it's the absence of any religion.
Atheists believe that a god does not exist.
Those who are Agnostic do not believe that a god exists.
There is a difference. Atheism is a postitive belief. Agnosticism(?) is a lack of belief.
Please, Dr. Mouse,
read the comments that point out, over and over, that the definition of atheism you are using IS NOT CORRECT. Atheism is a lack of belief, not a belief in it's own right.
Re: Fix the questions
AC wrote: "Just ask when was the last time attended [place of religion] or worshipped."
No, that doesn't work. I've recently been to two church funerals out of compassion and respect for the surviving partners/relatives. That doesn't mean that I took part in the services to any greater extent than standing up and sitting down at the appropriate times. It is of course an emotional experience but not a spiritual one.
Re: Re: Fix the questions
You can be or feel spiritual without being religious, though...
Many of the congregation of the church I attend do no more, and havn't for the last sixty years... Though now I think about it, your participation may have been greater because you actually stood sometimes; some of our older congregants don't even do that any more...
Definitely rigged questions.
Surely the question should be along the lines of " do you consider yourself relifgious?"
"If yes please indicate which version you suffer from"
Do the scientologists get a box?
Or are they bundled in with various others in the 'miscellaneous cult' category?
Was that a knock at the door?
Better get my coat ...
What happened to the church of the flying spaghetti monster
Everyone knows the true atheist response is the church of the flying spaghetti monster.... I wish there was a box for that!
I TICK THE " E=MC2 " BOX
WHAT MORE, DO YOU WANT FROM ME, MONEY ?
Are you trying to imply then that the Theory of Relativity is just something you have to take on faith?
Thought shall not kill
Irish donkey wrote: "'Thought shall not kill' is religious law which under pins our Society"
Unfortunately having the wrong thoughts does kill in some religious societies.
If you put "No Religion", all that will happen is that there will be an equivalent proportion of secular schools. Far better, surely, to spoil their silly game by putting "Jedi" or, in my case, "Pastafarian". If enough of us do so, the game is disrupted because they'll have to provide Jedi faith schools. I think the BHA have got it wrong on this occasion.
More's the point, I'm torn as to whether to put "indigenous mzungu" for my ethnicity.
incidentally I cannot BELIEVE
that none of you has piped up
"I find your lack of faith disturbing."
It's not like you haven't had the opportunity. For shame.
I find the lack of faith-
Another census thing
I'm very impressed by the range of languages on offer.
One that caught my eye was 'Swedish' - partly because I wasn't aware of large Swedish ghettos in the UK, but also because is there any Swede who doesn't speak better English than the average Briton?
Bank holy day of obligation.
"I wasn't aware of large Swedish ghettos in the UK".
You mean to say you've never worshipped in the aisles of Ikea?
it (religion) should be an entirely personal matter and that is all. Not a matter that gets shoved in my / your / our faces all the bloody time. Not a matter that involves the brain washing of young minds (tantamount to abuse imho). Why should any child be stamped with the mark of its parents beliefs the second its born. Give the poor things a chance to live and learn about all the faiths and spiritualism there is in the world, then maybe ask them if they want to choose one in particular at say 14 or 16 years of age. Of course they would probably choose the same one as their mates, but at least they would have a choice, even if they changed it the next year cos they got different mates by then. They could even share and discuss it over the interwebs and get a broader sense of the way folk live and worship all over the world. Or, given the same choice, they could drop the whole idea. I really don't believe you need religion to teach a person right from wrong.
Trouble is humin beans is still tribal and love the herd instinct - maybe it gives them a place to run away to, instead of facing up to the fact that we,as a species, are very, very insignificant.
And what if (some of it) is true, would the deity in charge be particularly happy with what some of us do in his / her / its name !!! - I don't think so.
The continued intolerance towards each other on the basis of religious beliefs, contrary to what they each say, is what holds us back. Believe in what you want, but don't cry if I contradict you and allow me the right to contradict you, for I tolerate your beliefs so long as you don't push them in my face all the bleeding time and shape the society in which I am also living, GOT IT!
I conclude therefore, that it no place whatsoever on a census form.
A belief is a blief. Science like religion doesnt have all the answers so neither side should be trying to get one up on each other. What is interesting about this is that some people are extremely rude and nasty just because someone believes in something they cannot prove or have any evidence for.
Would you berate a child for believing in father christmas? no. Yet you still go out and buy presents for them at christmas time and say its from santa.
We are humans first so lets treat others like we would like to be treated and lets remember that Maths and engineering are much better platforms for a society.
How science works:
Someone makes a statement and finds some proof to back it up. This stands as truth until someone who has used agreed international standards to disprove this.
Maths however you cannot claim anthing until it is solidly proved by numbers otherwise its just philosophy.
Religion has a place in society to help guide people to aspire and to control people in times when we did not have the advanced technology we have now.
Maths is what will unravel the universe as Einstein said "God does not play dice"
You are correct that science doesn't have all the answers (and has acknowledged it never will - see Godel). However, unlike religion, it does have facts; I don't have to believe in the law of gravity for to affect me, I can see that an apple falls.
And I think you meant "Unfortunately religion had a place ... to control people" although non-religious morals are not the same as technology.
Science is not a belief
Science has never claimed to have all the answers, in fact it revels in the knowledge that there is so much more to discover.
Religion says it has all the answers and doesn't allow any kind of debate to question it
Science is merely an explanation of observable evidence. Gravity for example doesn't care if you 'believe' in it or not it just carries on doing what it has always done.
Religion crumbles into nothingness without belief - who worships the ancient Egyptian or Roman Gods any more but the world didn't end, the Gods didn't get angry and destroy everything when people stopped believing and the world just moved on.
"Jedi" isn't the problem
I think the claims about problems with the Jedi response are overblown - for 2001, it was a good protest in itself, being a criticism with the question in itself (you can't do that if you answer No religion), as well as parodying the idea that beliefs should be respected simply if enough people believe in them.
Having said that, in 2001 there wasn't AFAIK a campaign push for "No religion". Now that there is, it's good to get everyone putting that one response.
But I still think the problem isn't a few people putting down Jedi. The problem is millions putting down that they are Christians simply because they were baptised, or identify as that culturally, even if they don't believe in it.
"In any case, the British people are quite capable of judging for themselves what box they should tick. They don't need to be told."
Sadly there's plenty of evidence that shows poll responses can depend heavily on the wording.
"If the Archbishop of Canterbury were to launch a campaign pleading for people to tick the Christian box, it would be rightly ridiculed as a sign of desperation."
Er, the Church of England still has plenty of power; has a privileged position as part of the Monarchy, and having seats in the House of Lords. Christian worship is still a legal requirement in all state schools.
If his point is to say that secular people are still in a more deperate situation than Christianity - er yes, that's the point.
To those ticking "Other"
During the previous census, the staff, employed to step-in when the OCR process (often) failed, were trained with the mantra, "If in doubt space it out". If they struggled to read your answer, it was discounted. In this instance you'd end up classified as "Religion - Other (Not specified)".
If Jesus came back he'd probably tick the "No religion" box too*.
* Based on the reasoning presented in Dogma.
As he was born into a Jewish Family, and undoubtedly grew up jewish, surely he'd tick the Jewish box?
Atheism IS a religion
Me and my fellow believers spend our Saturdays knocking on people's doors and trying to talk them into cancelling their subscriptions to The Watchtower.
Militant Agnostic* here.
*I don't know if there is a god AND NOR DO YOU!
Is there any beer in the fridge?
> Your problem here appears to be that you define Atheism as a lack of belief, which is not the case.
Yes, it is, literally. A theist is someone who believes in a god or gods, and an atheist is someone who lacks such belief.
> Atheism is a belief that there is no god.
Well, no, it's not. Lack of belief in the existence of X is not the same as a belief in the non-existence of X.
I don't believe there is beer in the fridge, since I see no evidence to support such a belief. That isn't the same as believing there is definitely no beer in the fridge. I may be mistaken, or the beer may be hiding behind the cheese. Maybe somebody hid it. People can be cruel. Nevertheless, the last time I looked, the fridge was completely devoid of beer, and I see no reason to believe that beer has magically appeared there, much as I would love to live in a universe where such things happened.
If you believe that the fridge contains beer, all you have to do to convince me is go and get me a beer. You're the one who believes in magic beer, not me.
> It would be all too possible for a group of Atheists to say, for example, "Anyone who follows a religion is stupid and must be killed", and launch a war on religion.
You're right, that is possible, though I'm not sure about the "all too possible". Are you trying to suggest that it's probable, or even likely? Again, I see no evidence that any such atheist conspiracy exists. If you have a reason to believe that is the case, I'd love to hear about it. Or you could just get me a beer.
It's not right to trivialize someone's firmly held beliefs like that. If a person says he's a member of the Jedi religion, he is. That's how religion works. It doesn't matter what others think about it.
- Geek's Guide to Britain INSIDE GCHQ: Welcome to Cheltenham's cottage industry
- Game Theory Is the next-gen console war already One?
- BBC suspends CTO after it wastes £100m on doomed IT system
- AT&T adds 61¢ 'Mobility Administrative Fee' for users
- Updated Reports: New Xbox could DOOM second-hand games market