US woman says Ubuntu can't access internet

Perfect

Wasnt able to use Linux and dropped out of technical college. Excactly what should be expected.

Help me! Drowning in Apple levels of smugness!

This highlights perfectly well the problem with Linux – most people who can help are extremely smug about it. I have tried various flavours of it on various machines and the new ones do work fairly simply and easily but when you run into a problem you end up wading through pages of forums filled with gurus who castigate you for not knowing a simple sudo this and get that and turning around three times at midnight looking at a westerly full moon will solve the problem! Compare this with Windoze where most numpties in the world have a fleeting idea of what the problem might be because they will have inevitably used it in the office and had to call helpdesk at least once to have them walk through testing the LAN connection and so on, and if not, know at least one mate who might have a better idea of it and might help out at a pinch… Even online help is simpler for both MS and Apple – go to site, pick product, go to help, search. Compared with – go to site for a particular distro, work out which release is installed, work out what interface you have, get a list of all the hardware present, then trawl through the gazillion arguments telling you to install someone else’s favourite distro! Now I agree that this particular method has helped me learn far more about Linux but without assured support and reliability I really just play with it on a sandpit machine that I can wipe and rebuild with no important data or apps on it.

I do agree that this lady doesn’t sound the most clued up, but to me the main indicator is when she let Dell talk her into keeping a machine she knew wasn’t suitable for her – plus why weren’t they more helpful in terms of talking her through the difference from Windows to Linux to at least get her started on her way? And for everyone who commentated that there are plenty of online help, please RTFA as she was having trouble connecting to this fabled repository of knowledge called the internet!! As for the comment on Technical Colleges, ever think that maybe other things in the world can be technical outside of IT? I know a “technician” who can’t find his way through Linux either, but I sure as hell can’t emulate his use of lasers for fiddling with genetic material at sub cellular level!!

Get a life people and realise that unlike most of us here, not everyone cares about the OS and how much “better” one apparently is to another!!

A computer is a means to an end

...and believe it or not, sometimes that end is not directly computer-related. You daft buggers who are taking a cheap shot would not expect to get the piss ripped out of you for not knowing how to use an opthalmoscope or a set of vernier calipers, so why the hell should everybody be as knowledgeable as you about computers?

I write software for a living, so it's no surprise that I know one end of emacs from the other, but that shouldn't mean that I expect everybody else to. For a lot of the normal people I know, I'd consider any knowledge they had of skeleton mode or dabbrevs to be a bit freaky :->

Computers should be like cars. You should hope to get good advice from the dealer (which she didn't get), good service from the garage (again, I doubt she did) and after that, it should get you from A to B. Sure, there are people who like tinker with the suspension settings or Barry up their Mum's Saxo with carbon-fiber effect sticky-backed plastic, but most people simply want an effing car, preferably one that just works.

What?

-- quote

Sorry chaps, but he's right. It doesn't matter how many times you claim Linux is ready for the big time, or repeat stories of your 101 year old granny using Ubuntu (and there's inevitably one of those every single time there's a story about Linux), it's just not as easy to use as Windows, and when something goes wrong it can be an absolute pain in the arse. I don't hate Linux or anything and I'd be quite happy to see a decent OS topple Windows, but that's just a fact. Sadly a lot of Linux fans suffer from this problem where they can't quite understand why delving into command lines and changing system files would be a problem, believing instead that it's just the user that is stupid.

--

This is simply not the case at all...

Windows is familiar to more people, and therefore "easier" for them to use because they are already familiar with it, and even then their familiarity is only on the surface level.

For someone who has never used a computer before, Linux (distributions like ubuntu) actually is easier. You don't have the hassle of keeping antivirus and such up to date, you get everything you're likely to need installed out of the box etc etc...

All of the people i have introduced linux to who had no preconceptions about what they think a computer should run got on better with it... One or two people hated it, and were given windows instead, only to find that they hated that more.

And the average user has absolutely no need for the command line... That is a common and ridiculous myth...

Pretty much everything an average user will ever need to do can be accomplished through the gui on windows osx and linux...

Many things can also be accomplished through the commandline, especially on linux and osx, but in all cases the commandline is optional and there for those who want it and know how to use it.

When you ask for help from someone technically competent they will usually try to do something in the most efficient or easiest to explain manner. Explaining a commandline is much easier than describing the elements of a gui, as it works more like a conversation and so long as the person can read and write you can use them to proxy your commands and their output back and forth. It's also easier to convey in textual form, as the command line itself is textual, trying to convey gui instructions graphically can be harder as colours, font sizes or icon positions could have changed.

The commandline, especially on linux and osx is often a far more efficient way of getting a job done if you know how to do it...

So, when you get help from a geek he will use the most efficient method to explain (commandline) the most efficient way of doing something (commandline).. Doesn't mean that's the only way, just that it's the best way for the geek to help you.

They are less likely to recommend a commandline based method on windows, as the commandline interface itself is far less powerful and therefore less likely to either do what you need at all, or do it in an efficient manner.

Shame on you

This woman isn't the idiot. The real idiot is the nephew/brother/friend who told her to buy a computer with Ubuntu linux installed on it. You don't make that sort of mistake when purchasing a computer unless you're being instructed to deliberately avoid MS Windows. The same idiot who obviously abandoned her computing needs once she made the purchase, at the very least whoever told her to buy a system with Ubuntu preinstalled could have provided a beginner session for her and helped set up the basics...

As for every single one of you who scorn this woman, shame on you. Years ago I was described as an arrogant condescending twat. Years ago I was just like the majority of you, but thankfully not as extreme as those of you who saw this as an opportunity to ridicule someone simply because she does not have the product knowledge that we do. Years ago I did not make a point of publicly voicing my opinions of others' incompetence; instead I chose to help them where possible. I couldn't help being condescending, so I kept my mouth shut unless I was asked a question.

Aaaargh

The problem here is nothing to do with IT/computing/Operating Systems.

Many people buy diesel cars without realising it and then freak when the engine has to be cleaned because they've filled it with 95 octane petrol (gas, to the uninitiated over the pond!)

The teaching of comprehension and common sense by the education system is a thing of the past in the Western World.

Consequently, if one doesn't even know how to begin to ask about things you know nothing about, what can one expect!

One Answer - a civilisation of Paris's, Lindsay's and Dubya's!

Up the Penguins!

Why didn't she just buy a copy of Windows??

I don't get it. She could have just bought a copy of Windows and installed it on her system, or got someone else to. That way it wouldn't have been a wasted purchase and she wouldn't have had to drop out of college (though one has to question how long she would have lasted anyway). So the question is why did she throw away her dreams instead of spending $100 on a copy of Windows?

Sympathy = Zero

Insert title here...

Wouldn't class myself as a genius when it comes to PC's but I installed Ubuntu and XP as dual boot. I have found some problems and had to go online to get help (luckily I could boot into Win), but even if i hadn't had dual boot, i'm certain I know at least 500 people with access to the internet and could have gone to theirs to get help.

Someone pointed out that common sense and logic had evaded her, I agree totally.

As for fixing network connections, my partner has Vista and the wireless kept dropping off for no reason, try as I could all i could do was repqir and hope it worked. Eventually had to wire it to router. However , managed without a problem to change wired to wireless on Ubuntu (feisty fawn) and the sort out when I changed security to WPA-PSK, just by looking online.

Some people should just not be allowed near computers, believe me I know a few, but to blame Ubuntu for stopping you going onto web and dropping out of college is absolutley astounding...has the world become a windows botnet???

Its not Dells fault

She bought the wrong thing and turned down Dells offer of a change. Their futher advice that ubuntu could do what she needed it to was correct, how is Dell support supposed to know just how limited her knowledge is? Well done Dell is all I can say.

I don't think badly of this woman but I imagine that if she bought a car that took Diesel fuel rather than Petrol , we would be seeing a similar news story about her "not being able to drive to college due to her filling up her car with "regular gas" and it not working anymore".*

She really should have looked into using someone elses computer, or a library computer, or calling an engineer to get it to work like you would with a car, or your plumbing or, well, anything else. The "giving up" is entirely her fault.

*yes i know it was online and she wasnt driving, its an example ;)

The mighty dollar

I bet $1 (I have a $1 note kicking around somewhere) that the woman in question chose the Ubuntu option because it was cheaper than the Windows option, and now she got caught out she's blaming everyone else but herself.

Schools and Proprietary software.

My son is doing a HNC at our local Further Education College in the North West of England. Like me, he prefers to use a mac and Open Office.

But lo and behold, he has had to purchase that bloated pile of poo called MS Office to submit his work. The college will NOT accept Open Office docs saved in Word format. it has to be in Word. How backwards. No doubt, they saved themselves a fortune with free MS licences.

When the educators know no better, what chance the general public? I have no other axe to grind, I just wish our public services realised that a significant number of their users (not a majority) do not use Windows.

Even Paris knows that it takes all sorts to make a ......

Stupid?

Lots of people saying she isn't stupid and computers aren't her thing!

You saw in the ad it had Ubuntu ( Windows-like O/S ) and you saw Windows. Well like anything else, would you not say to yourself, "Oh, why are there two types of Windows? What is the difference? Oh my gosh, I must ask some people or have a read in the library or ask in the local geek store for some opinions?". No you saw it was cheaper and you didn't think another thought! It was cheaper for a reason! You get nothing for nothing in this life, "Why was it cheaper?", you should have asked!

OK, well as registered geek bloke I know next to sweet FA about cars, football, putting in loft insulation and mixing a martini! Listen love, you know what I do when I have to deal with these things? I do two things that I was taught at a very young age, "ASK FOR HELP" and "READ UP ON IT".

Last year we, at home, decided we hated the kitchen, wanted to rip it out, quotes of £8k to £15k to put one in. I have never done any DIY other than put up a shelf or two, I spent 4 months reading up about how to buy the units, the tools I needed to do the plumbing and rewire the sockets, drill large holes, rip up floors. I then spent two weeks fitting the damn thing, total cost down to £3.5k and exactly what I wanted the way I wanted it.

Novel idea in this day and age I know but "I TOOK TIME TO LEARN HOW TO DO SOMETHING ON MY OWN!". When I got stuck, I went to several DIY stores and I asked everyone I could find what i should do about XYZ, looked up stuff online. I was so proud that I stepped outside my field of knowledge and learnt how to do something on my own for the first time since I learnt to walk probably! ( Plus the missus was over the moon that her geek husband was not a complete plank anymore, many points scored that fortnight! )

Jeez, some people just do not want to make an effort, some people are so feckless they think everyone else does their thinking for them so they no longer have to.

@TerryG

"but the thing is that's the target audience for Linux if it's ever going to make the breakthrough into the mass market desktop."

Linux isn't "trying" to get a breakthrough into mass market desktop.

It doesn't have to.

It is and will remain free. Even if only 5 people use it.

And windows wouldn't have worked for her either. Yet windows is still maintaining its breakthrough on the mass market desktop, so it's hardly a requirement to make it, is it.

Attitude Adjustment

@AC: "You all call this woman stupid (maybe she is)...but the average person still knows bugger all about computers."

Well, if they want to use one then they should f**king well learn! I don't know if she's stupid or not (although it seems fairly likely) but she damn well sure hasn't got the nous to enquire and seek out answers for herself, which means she will never, in common with the vast majority of other people, get the most that she could out of using a computer; or anything else for that matter.

Whilst I'm used to doing interface design - and don't think I'm too crappy at it whilst claiming no gold medals - there is a point at which "Helping make things intuitive for the user" has reached its limit and the only way users are going to learn more and get the full benefit of a piece of software is if they are prepared to read, experiment and find things out for themselves. I'll try and help anyone with stuff, from computers to life problems, once; maybe twice; but at the point it becomes obvious they're not prepared to help themselves then sod it, they're on their own. And that's the way it should be. Otherwise we're just encouraging the development of a race of morons.

Is everyone missing the point?

She tried to stick with Linux but it wasn't for her. She's no different from the 99% of humanity who really don't give a flying fuck what their OS is, as long as they get to check emails and save Word documents.

Linux is clearly not ready for the desktop.

And for the AC @ 03:16, just re-read what you wrote:

"So you just right-click and 'repair' in Windows, huh? And about 14% of the time it actually fixes the problem!

Really, Linux isn't that hard... you may have to search online for some answers if you don't know how to do something"

How can you go online if your internet connection isn't working??? This women isn't the only idiot around here

re: Let's just hold on a minute...

Yes, lets.

This is a plant. Look at it:

1) Bought a Dell with Ubuntu. Hard enough to do even if you know what the feck Ubuntu IS. Something rotten in the state of Denmark...

2) Contacted Dell support. Yeah, and God popped over and helped too.

3) (the big one), Dell saying "Nah, you don't want to put windows on it, you want to keep linux on". COME ON!!! Now we're in cloud cuckoo land. When would Dell EVER do that???

4) FIVE MONTHS LATER: "It doesn't work! Ubuntu did it!!!!"

It's a plant. It's so horrendously unlikely to happen it can't be true. Not even on a planet full of fools.

Missing the point

"Her Verizon internet wouldn't load. She couldn't install Microsoft Word" - this is making an excellent case for a layer of abstraction i.e. the OS should be irrelevant; if she likes MS Word then she should be able to use it regardless of the underlying OS.

At the end of the day its the data and the application that allows manipulation of that data that matters not the underlying OS. All the Windows vs Linux vs UNIX vs any other OS arguments are just rubbish that whose only purpose is to take time away from real development.

re: Freedom to choose

And how well did it go getting a reactivation code from MS when you reinstalled XP?

Click to fix... Ha Ha Hahahahahahahaha

@Simon & AC 03:16

"So you just right-click and 'repair' in Windows, huh? And about 14% of the time it actually fixes the problem!"

WOW, 14% of the time!!!!! I've only got it to work...... let's see..... mumble mumble ..... carry the 1.... mumble mumble...... divide by the number of times it worked, Oops divide by ZERO error

What pisses me off though is the "Contact your network administrator" part of the message, and before anybody’s reminds me, ipconfig did not work either, its reach for the big red switch time again.

Seriously though, who is the bigger idiot, the 'merkin who bought the PC with the wrong OS, or the support idiot who said Ubuntu was cool, must have been 5 o'clock when she rang the DELL support desk, sorry.... I ment to say must have been 5 o'clock when she got through to the DELL support desk

Paris, 'cos she dosen't mind being FINGERed

or having her files TOUCHed

or GREPed

I’ll bet she’s a fan of open orifice as well

@Chris Hawkins

"One Answer - a civilisation of Paris's, Lindsay's and Dubya's!"

Paris's, Lindsay's and Dubya's what? I presume those apostophes were posessive?*

*Or should that be "apostrophe's"?

Network managers

XP and Ubuntu (8.04) are as bad as each other for this. Ubuntu Network Manager keeps losing settings and needed to be reset every startup with my belkin dongle (using ndiswrapper). Fix (permanent) - install wicd - works every time - why can't they just stick in a bit that works instead of the miserable failure that is Network Manager. (Maybe they have done this in 8.10?)

XP repair should be

1) release

2) cleararpcache

3) renew

But instead it appears to do 1,3, 2, phonehome so if 2 is the problem - tough luck cos it will never run that bit. Fix - pull out dongle (or disable), cmd netsh interface ip delete arpcache, push in dongle (or enable). Better still

open notepad

copy and paste

ipconfig release

netsh interface ip delete arpcache

ipconfig renew

Save to desktop as repair.bat. Right click>open whenever required. Haven't experienced the arpcache problem in ubuntu (yet).

No permanent fix for windows that I have found yet - probably would work by disabling automatic connection and running a batch file at startup to clear the cache and then connect

Still not working ? Switch off router, wait a minute, switch on router.

So you can get a permanent fix for Ubuntu without going near a terminal but with Windows you only get a temporary fix which requires the use of a command line.

Oh - and all this after you have checked that your router hasn't simply dropped the connection and neither Ubuntu nor Windows is going to tell you that even though it would be a simple thing to check if you were getting as far as your router and letting you know.

Neither xp nor ubuntu come out of this looking good but it's only the windows os that requires a command line fix.

Best homework/exam dodge excuse ever

It certainly beats the dog ate it. I'd have believed it though if she had said Windows Home Server ate my homework.

The sad thing is it shows just how ingorant the general public are, anyone who knows windows well enough (subjective threshold there) should be able to get around Ubuntu reasonably OK

something called windows

stops me using my hardware at full speed. and keeps letting these nasty worm things in. I've missed my youth and middle age through constantly being forced to re-install it...

Please...

...more people like this. How else am I to earn my beer money if all users are actually able to fix there own computers??

This is really a none story. Is it really that slow of a news day? "Clueless computer user clueless about computers - more on this story later..."

I like to evangelise Ubuntu as much as the next penguin-lover, but this is not a question of superior or inferior operating system, it's a case of massivly inferior tech support. Had there been someone knowledgeable around she could have achieved what she needed on any system. As it was, with no help, she was destined to failure, whether linux, windows or OS/2! (*Shudder*)

boyfriend is to blame

nuff said.

Is there really a discussion on who is to blame in this?

Aside from the obvious facts that Ubuntu is open source and a person can find anything they ever need, including Windows XP, Vista, whatever as an application they can download while still using Ubuntu as their main operating system, I agree with the point a few before me made. She was looking for ANYTHING else to blame but herself for being lazy and dropping out of 2 quarters of school. Too bad she picked something that people actually know about.

I can't imagine, even in a city that breeds minds like this, that their college does not have a computer lab or a coffee shop or an internet cafe or even a FRIEND for the occasional paper she'll have at this school.

Been a Windows user forever, 2 weeks old into using Ubuntu and I'm sickened by this article.