back to article YES, Xbox One DOES need internet, DOES restrict game trading

Microsoft has finally confirmed that Xbox fans' worst fears are at least partially true: Although the new Xbox One gaming console won't need an always-on internet connection, that connection had better be on pretty often or you can forget about gaming. And don't assume you'll be able to sell or trade your old games, either. " …

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  1. MIc

    Calm down...

    I don't think all of the hysteria is warranted

    http://wmpoweruser.com/microsoft-no-restrictions-on-used-games-with-xbox-one/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+WmPowerUser+%28WMPowerUser%29

    1. Charles 9

      Re: Calm down...

      Actually, I think it's QUITE warranted.

      1. The control is being left to the publishers, and given the track records of the big guys like EA and UbiSoft, how do you think this will go?

      2. The model already exists with Valve and Steam.

      3. Given a recent patent application, I think Sony are actually going to go one worse than Microsoft on this and employ a system that can work even without Internet.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Calm down...

        "2. The model already exists with Valve and Steam."

        Steam has always had an "offline mode" for this reason. As someone who used to "admin" LAN parties from random borrowed buildings with no net, there was always a few who forgot to put steam into offline mode before coming and had to suffer the wrath of doing it over a GPRS connection.

        1. Scrumble

          Re: Calm down...

          I don't know what Valve claim about Steams offline mode, but from personal experience it isn't unlimited. You still have to go online every now and again.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Calm down...

            I've gone a couple of months without needing to go online, I tend to use offline mode on the laptop and just leave it offline for months at a time (the laptop doesn't get heavy use).

            But yeah at points it moans, I assume the cache of your details expires, but as long as it gets me past that "1 month to get a new internet connection" period when I move house or a couple of weeks in the cheapest hotel my company could find to stuff me in then there is little problem.

            24 hours isn't long enough, it needs to be about a month.

            Consoles really came into their own in the moving scenario as after you've shifted all your boxes about and unpacked a plate, kettle, some cutlery and, the coffee all you needed to do was plug in the console and the tv and you could play games amongst your cardboard empire. Little point in unpacking the PC as you can't browse the internets for another few weeks.

            Though I'm one to talk, I've only got a PS2, well used to have, now I've just got a ps2 emulator and all my games come from steam and gog all the issues the new consoles will face were played out in the pc market years ago and pc gaming got a hell of a lot cheaper after it all ended. Unless you buy release day ports of console games in which case you're a mug.

    2. Michael Habel
      FAIL

      Re: Calm down...

      Love how your link offers precious little in way of refuting any actual argument(s), and actually disallows any further discussion(s), on these/those matter(s). But, hay if you'll be a good enough shrill perhaps MicroSoft will give you a nice fresh Copy of Windows 8, a whole Year of Office365 and an XBONE for free....

  2. RAMChYLD
    Boffin

    Eighth generation

    They're all just glorified PCs now. X86 architecture, bog standard GPU and RAM...

    I just cannot fathom how they're better than PCs if they're just technically PCs.

    I'll skip on this and the PS4, thanks.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Eighth generation

      > I just cannot fathom how they're better than PCs if they're just technically PCs

      They never were "better than PCs", and not really designed to be. Consoles always have been relatively low spec machines (roughly equivalent to a mid-level gaming PC when they are introduced with obvious ranking-rot over 5 year lifespan). The £250 price point for the base version should have given away the fact that it isn't exactly a high spec machine ...

      Their main advantage is a fixed hardware spec so the game developers know exactly what they are targeting, and therefore what they are optimizing for. And because of "fixed spec" it usually "just works" for the technically inept (or kids) ...

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Eighth generation

        Can you get gddr5 ram for PCs yet? As I'm pretty sure I saw the ps4 was specced with 8gb of gddr5, but yeah, they are just pcs though, but on release they're not bad value. 8 cores, 8gb of memory, radeon 7790 (the two invariably have different boards and classes of bits an pieces but that's the base of the systems) so not to shabby for £400

        1. Destroy All Monsters Silver badge
          Devil

          Re: Eighth generation

          Sure you can. Not on the mainboard, but on the graphics engine:

          EVGA GeForce GTX 780 SuperClocked ACX, EUR 680.

          > 8gb of gddr5

          Not for the CPU.

          1. Blank Reg

            Re: Eighth generation

            That's right, not for the CPU and that's the key. The unified memory architecture will nearly eliminate copying data back and forth between CPU and GPU. Also a GPU with that amount of RAM would cost almost as much as a PS4+XB1.

  3. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    without complete offline....

    Why do i need a box anymore?

    Why do i need to spend hundreds of dollars on hardware, since if everything can come from "the cloud" how big a step is it going to be to play virtualised games over a net connection.

    An xbox is good but its something i buy out of choice not need and in this case, i probably just wont buy one.

    1. Scrumble

      Re: without complete offline....

      A teeny tiny step. Onlive.com already exists

    2. Yag

      Re: without complete offline....

      Unless you have a RJ45 in your forehead to allow for a direct brain/internet interface, you'll always need some kind of box...

      The main issue for a very dumb box is the required low latency - FPS players knows what I mean - and very high speed connection - sending high resolution/high refresh rate pictures in almost real time is not as simple as a bufferized broadcast TV.

      You'll pay more for such a connection than by buying a high end console every couple of years...

      "The cloud" is an interesting solution to a few problems (mostly linked to scalability), but is not THE answer - everyone knows it's 42. And about the promises made, don't forget that clouds are mostly made of vapor.

  4. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    1) "The main benefit of this is that your games can now follow you wherever you are. You can login with your account on your friend's Xbox and play all of your games there. You can even share your games with up to ten members of your family, and they'll be able to play them wherever they go, too."

    The can accomplish that without the need for your machine to be on (even in a hibernated state) or have a constant Internet connection. Microsoft also had this to say:

    2) "When you install a game for the console, a copy of it is automatically associated with your online account, no matter whether you bought it online through Xbox Live or picked it up on physical disc at a store."

    If the copy is associated with your online account, then you should be able to do everything in paragraph 1 as that data should be cached in the Microsoft servers. So it shouldn't have to contact the actual Xbox at all. Go to a friends house and it sees you have such and such games, you can play them; there is absolutely no reason it needs to access your Xbox. As usual Microsoft just does things the stupid way.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Yeah, but

      I've been able to do that with Steam for years, and they have an offline mode.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Stop

      PS3 Store Games

      Excluding Singstar you can have your account on upto 5 PS3's and download all of the PS3 games onto those consoles. So how is this new?

  5. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    The new consoles are a hard sell

    Steam has an off-line mode that works (I know, I've tried it). The PC is backwards compatible with games like Half Life (released 2004), Doom (released 1993) and Myst (released 1993), and can be upgraded while still maintaining compatibility. Steam regularly has sales that offer discounts of up to 95%. The PC games market has free mods like Black Mesa, Minerva and Cry of Fear. There are also free new levels for games like Portal and Left4Dead 2, as well as additions to games like the Elder Scrolls and Fallout series (e.g. Project Brazil). There is a much greater variety of Indie games and MMOS.

    I already have a PC, and for the price of a new console I can upgrade it with a high end graphics card, which will also speed up some of my non-gaming software.

    I think I'll give the new consoles a miss.

    1. TheVogon
      Mushroom

      Re: The new consoles are a hard sell

      The Pirate Bay provides an offline mode too....

    2. Greg J Preece

      Re: The new consoles are a hard sell

      Half Life (released 2004)

      1998, you mean. :-p HL2 was 2004.

  6. Greg J Preece

    The main benefit of this is that your games can now follow you wherever you are.

    Couldn't they do that before? I mean, I would pick up the game disc, and walk off with it, and play it at my friend's house. Or I would log in on his system, download my game, and play there. (Admittedly, we run PS3s.) What am I missing here?

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      "Or I would log in on his system, download my game, and play there"

      Let me fix that for you:

      "Or I would log in on his system, wait several hours to download my game, and play there"

      1. Greg J Preece

        "Or I would log in on his system, wait several hours to download my game, and play there"

        Depending on the game, sure, though the Playstation Store servers do tend to fare much better than other services I've used when it comes to download speed.

  7. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    I don't mind it

    In exchange for DRM, they give up to 10 householders the ability to play ALL of the household's games simultaneously on their friend's machines.

    You can also loan the game to a friend still.

    More flexible than the physical alternative.

    1. Yag
      Trollface

      Re: I don't mind it

      Read the fine print.

      I'm pretty sure there's a sentence saying "Multi-user and loaning functionality is at game publisher's discretion".

      The use of the weasely "up to" is a giveaway.

  8. Greg J Preece

    So I'm wandering how long we'll be into the next faltering console generation before GabeN turns up to announce the Steam Box's release date.

  9. Eguro
    Unhappy

    10 years from now?

    So what happens to my game collection when the Xbox one 2 comes out?

    Not backwards compatible I'm sure. So all my games are now useless because the servers needed to authenticate my Xbone are gone. I can be like the end of A.I. and play for one last day, before it's gone forever.

    1. Zot

      Re: 10 years from now?

      Gone are the days of selling the gaming system in the paper to an appreciative family somewhere who were looking for something on a budget. You can't tell them the transfer cost as every game publisher will have different prices. Not to mention the admin time dealing with it all, they'll spend all day putting in 32 character registration numbers with the joystick. ; )

  10. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    just a silly thought

    with the kinnect camera always on and the target audience being minors. will ms be prosecuted if a kid uses their xbox nude with possessing child porn?

    didn't end well for the american school that installed spyware on their students laptops without their permission.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: just a silly thought

      Its not always on, MS have stated that on their website. It can be switched off completely or put into a low power mode, when in low power mode the Kinect is only listening out for "Xbox On". It also goes through the privacy settings with you and does not transmit any data unless you give it your explicit permission.

      1. Lordbrummie
        Alert

        Re: just a silly thought

        If it's "on" only listening for the "Xbox on" verbal command then it's on all the time, listening to EVERYTHING being said, processing EVERYTHING that is being said, using processing power until the "Xbox on" verbal command is recognised by the console.

        How is this not intrusive?

        Someone with decent network skills and nefarious desires could basically create 1984. With Microsoft's record on security this has got to be a hackers wet dream.

        Maybe I'm getting old but this will mean no console in my home when the existing xbox packs up, which to be fair, shouldn't be too long.

        Added to the simple fact my son cannot afford to buy 6 AAA games a year without selling the ones he has finished with, why is the software industry so blinkered, I sell my car 2nd hand does the manufacturer get a cut? NO.

        I sell anything outside of games, DVD's and music, the original manufacturer gets nothing, why should these guys be any different, I bought it, I own it, I'm not copying it, I'm reselling something I no longer want and guess what, I use that cash to but MORE ORIGINAL games, DVD's and music.

        MSFT is cutting it's own throat, but what do you expect from a business that is led by a guy who said "the iphone will never take off".... yes MSFT really listens to its customers.

        1. Zot

          Re: just a silly thought

          Another silly thought - MS does a TV advert with some shiny toothed loon saying "XBOX ON" really loudly, and everybody's console will blink into action!! It'll be like a terrible Dr Who episode.

        2. TheVogon
          Mushroom

          Re: just a silly thought

          "With Microsoft's record on security this has got to be a hackers wet dream."

          Microsoft have a much better record than Sony in this field....

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: just a silly thought

      >didn't end well for the american school that installed spyware on their students laptops without their permission.

      no-one lost their job, no criminal charges were brought and almost all of the legal costs were covered by insurance...pretty good result for the school really.

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Will ms be prosecuted if a kid uses their xbox nude with possessing child porn?

      Of course not!

      Thanks to the laws in the UK, and precedents set by kids taking selfies, it would be the child itself that would be prosecuted for the production and distribution.

  11. Captain DaFt
    Facepalm

    It's a pity

    I was actually leaning toward getting an Xbone up until they announced their plans for it.

    As for PS4... well all they've got to show so far is a controller, a fuzzy rectangle, and some video mock-ups of games it might have.

    Wii U? Nope, why would I want a game system tethered to a tablet with lousy battery life? Not to mention, the only reason I have a Wii ws that it played the games I wanted, and the Wii U doesn't. (I know, I know; "Coming soon", but they said that for months with the 3DS, and then.. "Japanese market only."

    So what's left? Steam?

    Conclusion: None of the new systems look appealing, my PC is getting long in the tooth, so the obvious choice is to find a decent desktop running Win 7. Any recommendations? (Eadon need not apply)

    1. Charles 9

      Re: It's a pity

      Roll your own is my recommendation. Gaming requirements have hit a plateau lately, meaning you can get some decent hardware for a modest investment. Though given your PC's age (in comparison, mine's about 4 years old), it'll probably have to be built from scratch if you don't have an empty case lying around. Pick and choose your parts.

      You can go middle-of-the-road (like a Core i5 or something from AMD) without much trouble since most of the grunt work goes to the GPU, and there you have plenty of options (budget $200-300 for something with comfortable performance; choose nVidia or AMD to suit your taste).

      Measure how much you put on your hard drive(s) to determine what's best for you. If you put a lot of stuff in it, you'll probably want to stick with traditional drives at least as a secondary. Getting a solid-state drive for the boot drive does help with performance, but the price premium means you need to choose the device carefully depending on your storage and performance needs as well as you budget.

      Memory generally isn't a big problem these days, especially with 64-bit OS's. Try to get at least 8GB of memory to give yourself some headroom, but check for the ideal clock settings and always buy in matched sets to maximize the performance on your motherboard (check your motherboard's specs for details on ideal arrangements). Getting more may not be needed right away, but as an option it doesn't really hurt on a 64-bit OS.

    2. gregthecanuck
      Meh

      Re: It's a pity

      Wii U - there is a larger rechargable battery coming soon for the tablet. It has been shown in Japan.

      So far to me the Wii U is the better product - no funky XBone DRM. I expect Sony to have similar restrictions now that MS has broken the ice on that front. Also no rental possibility for games? We use RedBox to try out new games and only buy ones we feel are worth it. And some games you can finish in less than a day! Latest Laura Croft title for example. Very bad $ value.

      I suspect the Wii U will get a boost due to:

      - no funky DRM issues

      - supports rentals

      - supports used game market

      - less expensive than XBone

      IMO the graphics on the Wii U are "good enough". As others have mentioned it's all about gameplay. There are some awesome titles on the Wii such as Xenoblade that are as good as anything on Xbox. Next-gen Xenoblade from Wii U likely to be shown at E3 soon.

      1. Greg J Preece

        Re: It's a pity

        IMO the graphics on the Wii U are "good enough". As others have mentioned it's all about gameplay. There are some awesome titles on the Wii such as Xenoblade that are as good as anything on Xbox. Next-gen Xenoblade from Wii U likely to be shown at E3 soon.

        Couldn't give a toss about the graphics, but the U has everything that annoyed me about the Wii: not enough good games, too much shovelware, too many gimmicks. The 'motes were annoying enough because they barely worked, and the tablet can just sod off.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: It's a pity

        A game that would really help Wii U out would be Madden football. Peole could enter their own plays or pick presets on the tablet, that wouldn't show on the main screen.

        1. TheVogon
          Mushroom

          Re: It's a pity

          "A game that would really help Wii U out would be Madden football"

          A real Football game like FIFA maybe. Hardly anyone plays Madden - niche market.

      3. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: It's a pity

        I suspect the Wii U will get a boost due to:

        - no funky DRM issues

        - supports rentals

        - supports used game market

        - less expensive than XBone"

        You are forgetting that it is relatively crap and major game publishers have effectviely dumped it. Who wants a last gen console with few games when Next Gen is out....

        And you certainly can rent games on Xbox One. You don't even need a disk to do so!

    3. Tom 260

      Re: It's a pity

      I can see Sony announcing a similar system to the Xbone, there's already been a clue in EA withdrawing from developing for the Wii U, if they're happy (and DRM is EA's wet dream) with the Xbone's system, they'll have to be happy with the PS4's restrictions too.

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    1. Charles 9

      Re: Ever reliable...

      Then explain why Steam is taking off. Why can't Microsoft do things Steam is doing like demos and sample periods? Wouldn't that and online reviews take the place of word of mouth?

      1. Piro Silver badge

        Re: Ever reliable...

        The console market ≠ PC gaming.

        Console gamers don't generally put up with crap, and they bought a console so they could toss a disk in and play a game. Swap the games with their friends, sell it off when they're done with it.

        The system has always been like that. Simple and easy.

        Steam's advantage is that they have compelling offers that are often ultra-cheap. Also, Valve, simply put, aren't dicks. Yes, it's a form of DRM, but they have been actively trying to provide Steam on multiple OSes (Windows, Linux, OS X) to provide best coverage possible, so you're not locked to a platform.

        There's an offline mode. Just to re-iterate it again - the sales are so incredible that almost none of the downsides matter. You can get legitimate games at prices that make you feel like you stole the game.

        New games are always more expensive on consoles because of the licencing costs of being on the platform.

        Then you have the small matter of the fact that on console - you PAY FOR THE CONSOLE. Steam does not get a cut of your machine. Your machine that you already have and that can be used for every purpose. Not a console which is from one company, for one purpose.

      2. TheVogon
        Mushroom

        Re: Ever reliable...

        Microsoft already do offer demos on XBL. The new changes enables even more flexible use of games - e.g per hour rental would be possible...

  13. mIRCat
    Terminator

    I see.

    "Offline gaming is not possible after these prescribed times until you re-establish a connection, but you can still watch live TV and enjoy Blu-ray and DVD movies."

    Doesn't sound like this X-Box will be connecting from my house. Ever.

  14. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    So.....

    A friend is playing games on my XBox1. He likes the games and goes and buys one but I can't lend him any of my older games until he's been my "friend" for more than 30 days.

    Frankly this is as barking mad ad Garth Brooks demanding that he should get royalties on second hand CDs because they don't wear out....

    1. TheVogon
      Mushroom

      Re: So.....

      "A friend is playing games on my XBox1. He likes the games and goes and buys one but I can't lend him any of my older games until he's been my "friend" for more than 30 days."

      Wrong - you cant GIVE him the game for 30 days. You can lend him games as soon as he is your friend.

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