Google formally recognises Palestine: Puts it on the virtual map Google has waded into the Middle East's most intractable conflict by recognising Palestine as an independent state. On 1 May, the advertising giant wiped the term Palestinian Territories from its localised search page, replacing it with Palestine. It follows a UN decision in October to name Palestine a non-member, observer …
"The last thing I would trust is a website that felt it had to call itself "factsandlogic", and I suspect the other two sites do not take what I would call a position of analytical examination of the issues from both sides." You may chose to not like their tone, but I note you are unable to counter the historic facts they base their arguments around.
".....No, there are other things I care to do than increase their page hits and discover which "historical facts" they have chosen to use to back up their opinion." So you only read websites that agree with your opinion. I suppose it's no surprise then that you remain so ignorant of the realities of both the history of the region or the current events.
"So you must know about the white phosphorus then." I know that white phosphorous has been used as a smoke-making material by forces across the World for decades and is not just some invention only used by the Eeeevvuuuuul Joooooooos. Its use as an incendiary by just about everyone is also well dcoumented. In fact, the Paras admitted they used it by choice for trench-clearing in the Falklands in 1982, when they were under instruction to only use it for smoke screens. But I suppose you are trying to suggest Israel has illegally used white phosphorous? Gee, you're upset by the possible use of phosphorous, but OK with suicide bombing pizza resteraunts or shooting rockets are civilians? Oh, those attacks are fine for you because they're aimed at killing Jews, right? Fail!
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Palestinian comes from the word Philistine (a people living in Canaan before Joshua and his interlopers barged in, according to the Holy Word in the Holy Bible), just as England is derived from Angeln (where the Angles came from). You do remember the Angles, Jutes, and Saxons?
"......England is derived from Angeln (where the Angles came from). You do remember the Angles, Jutes, and Saxons?" And not only can I pronounce it, I'm not using it to justify the ethnic cleansing of anyone from their historic homeland either!
I don't care that one faction claims the land is theirs because their great-to-the-nth granddaddy killed off the old tribe and was personally handed the land by God himself.
I don't care that the other faction claims the land is theirs because their people owned it more recently.
Just sort something out, and stop bothering me with all these incessant news stories about the latest rocket to go flying one way or drone to go flying the other. Get rid of all the annoying news columns asking 'Will Obama be loyal to Israel?' and questioning his theological commitment. Put an end to these mountain-from-molehill outrages every time someone decides to change their terminology a little.
I'm fed up. Please, make it all go away. Get the nukes out if you must. This has gone on long enough now.
Since people are throwing opinions and "facts" around at random anyway, I thought I'd supply my own: The number of casualties in the Palestine/Israel conflict in the past 20 years combined amount to ... the number of gun-related deaths in the US over a span of 4 months.
No, I don't see the relevance either. Just thought it was kinda interesting to observe in the light of recent events.
".....the number of gun-related deaths in the US over a span of 4 months....." Seeing as the population of the US is so much larger it's a bit of a silly comparison unless you're an anti-gun fanatic. In which case I suggest you consider how it probably also equates to the number of people in the US killed in road accidents in less than a month.
1) The truth is that Palestine is no more real than Never-Never Land. The first time the name was used was in 70 A.D. when the Romans committed genocide against the Jews, smashed the Temple and declared the land of Israel would be no more. From then on, the Romans promised, it would be known as Palestine.
The name was derived from the Philistines, a Goliathian people conquered by the Jews centuries earlier. It was a way for the Romans to add insult to injury ... Palestine has never existed – before or since – as an autonomous entity. It was ruled alternately by Rome, by Islamic and Christian crusaders, by the Ottoman Empire and, briefly, by the British after World War I. ... There is no language known as Palestinian. There is no distinct Palestinian culture. There has never been a land known as Palestine governed by Palestinians.
2) Israel did not seize Judea, Samaria, East Jerusalem and Gaza from the Palestinians; those were areas controlled by Jordan and Egypt until Israel won the Six Day War in 1967. All so-called Palestinians are really just Jordanians or Egyptians.
3) The Palestine Liberation Organization was established in 1964, three years before Israel secured the West Bank and Old Jerusalem. What was the PLO trying to "liberate" then? Clearly the pre-'67 state of Israel.
Why people still fall in the trap of the Arab mythmakers and try to make something where nothing exists is beyond me.
"Pretty much the same argument could be made about Great Britain....." Yawntasticly stupid fail. Great Britain is a sovereign state and exists through treaties binding the collective countries of England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland together. As individual countries, each of those has a distinct people and culture. There is no such thing as a Palestinian people and no individual Palestinian culture.
2) Israel did not seize Judea, Samaria, East Jerusalem and Gaza from the Palestinians; those were areas controlled by Jordan and Egypt until Israel won the Six Day War in 1967. All so-called Palestinians are really just Jordanians or Egyptians.
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So by the same argument, all those Israelis are actually Eropean and Russians, and thus equally have no claim to the land.
I love it when Israel backers cite "there wasn't a country called Palestine" argument, because not so long ago there wasn't an Israel, Syria, Iraq, Lebanon, Jordon and Turkey either.
There was sonething called the Ottoman Empire though, but they never seem to be in a rush to call for its reinstatement.
".....There was sonething called the Ottoman Empire though, but they never seem to be in a rush to call for its reinstatement." So you trumpet something you admit completely destroys the Fakeistinian farce but they deny that there was a Jewish homeland long before the Ottoman Empire existed? Indeed, it was there before the Roman Empire and long, long before the tragic mess called Europe. Your extremely shallow grasp of history seems to cover just about nothing.
"" So you trumpet something you admit completely destroys the Fakeistinian farce"
Err, no actually. Because there were palestinians living there at the time. Funny that.
As for the rest of your tirade, Shouldnt whats good for the goose, be good for the gander? If Isreal has a right to exist because of some similarly named historical kingdom 2000 years ago, does the Italian government, as the decendants of the Roman Empire, have the right to rule all of Western Europe?
Also, you might want to stop confusing "Being an absuive ass" with "making a reasonable and compelling point", you might actually sway some converts if you do... the way you're going, you're convincing more and more people than the Palestians are right, and the people on israel's side are completely unreasonable people who simply throw around insults to anyone who disagrees....
Acutally, no, wait I get it. You're smart enough to know that. Clearly you're a HAMAS agent posing as an Israel supporter in order to help blacken Israel's image. Good job.
"......Err, no actually. Because there were palestinians living there at the time...." Get it through your thick head - no such people as "Palestinains" ever, it is Arab propaganda. There were people living in the area that came to be called Palestine, but none of those groups identified themselves as "Palestinian" until the KGB and PLO dreamed up a little scam to try and imply only the Arabs from the area were the rightful owners of the land.
"....If Isreal has a right to exist because of some similarly named historical kingdom 2000 years ago....." Israel has the right to exist due to it being a recognised state by an act of the UN Security and General Councils. The Fakeistinians also had their chance to have similar recognition of their lands under the UN Partition Plan but chose instead to try and steal the lands of the Jews. So nothing to do with "historical kingdom", but very much to do with the continued Jewish presence in the area. The UN Partition Plan was based on finding which group was in the majority in an area, which meant there were also plenty of Jews that had lived for centuries in areas that the Israelis accepted would be under Arab control. The problem was the Arabs could not accept ANY Jewish homeland.
"....you might actually sway some converts if you do...." Why on Earth would I want to "convert" an idiot like you? Apart from the comedy value of reading your incredibly uninformed posts, it is not my responsibility to make up for your parents' failings. I'm quite happy for you to continue making an ass of yourself, it will have zero impact on the future of Israel or the Fakestinians if you remain clueless. Get over yourself, you're simply not that important, and I very much doubt your circle of equally dimwitted acquaintances extends to anyone of influence. Enjoy!
Oh Matt, stop it, I'm sure you HAMAS handlers are over the moon at the way you've made the average Israel supporter look like a complete prick. They must be so proud of the great work you're doing... You're clearly getting results they can only dream of!
I'd suggest you knock off and head to the pub, but you Muslims don't drink, do you? Well maybe you can have a glass of OJ or sonething.
Matt, I know you might not have many friends the way you act with so much abrasiveness and with the way you throw around insults... But I just have to let you know, a few replies doesn't make us buddies... I would appreciate it however if you stopped avoiding the question.
By the way, how much does Hamas pay you to embarras yourself like this?
"Matt, I know you might not have many friends the way you act....." Hate to break it to you but I have no problem getting on with intelligent people not trying to force-feed me their agenda. I just must hang out with people a lot smarter than the sheeple you spend time dribbling with.
".....so much abrasiveness and with the way you throw around insults...." Puh-lease, going by the idiocy in your posts, I find it very unlikely that you aren't called a fool on a daily basis! If you can't stand the heat (and you obviously can't supply any arguments to back up your "ideals"), then get out of the kitchen and go back to the kiddie websites, at least until you've grown up and learned enough to be able to participate like an educated adult.
".....By the way, how much does Hamas pay you to embarras yourself like this?" Is that tragic effort the best you can make towards a contribution to the thread? I pity you, I really do, that you somehow think that was either topical or humourous.
I think you'll find Hamas would be unlikely to pay me to expose the delusions of people like you, though they would probably enjoy the next bit. You see, unlike the PLO, Hamas haven't had forty years to develop a massive and illegal income ("..... In 1993 and 1994, the British National Criminal Intelligence Services estimated the total to be about $10 billion, with an annual income of $1.5 – $2 billion....." http://www.eufunding.org/terror/FundingEvil.pdf). Instead, they are spending the funds they should be using for developing Gaza on buying rockets and sending their fighters to train in Iran (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/israel/4127074/Hamas-fighters-now-a-well-organised-force.html). How long Iran is happy to fund them is also in question, now, given events in Syria.
Indeed, Hamas is a bit short of cash, and the Hamas fighters have been moonlighting as mercenaries for the Sunni Gulf peinces in Syria (http://breakingnews.sy/en/article/10056.html?m=0). You'd think the latter would be an embarassment for the Hamas leadership after they spent so many years hiding behind Assad's apron in Damascus, but once again it can be explained by the old Sunni-Shia schism - when they're not all hating Jews together, Muslims are quite happy to kill each other (http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/02/24/us-syria-palestinians-idUSTRE81N1CC20120224).
I suspect that - unless the Gulf princes start making me an offer - I'll just have to keep exposing your idiocy for free! Enjoy!
"......you've made the average Israel supporter look like a complete prick......" It seems your definition of "a prick" is someone that can provide verifiable facts in rebuttal to propaganda, myths and lies. I suppose it must be very disheartening for you when people don't give up reason and education just because you think you're so special that all you have to do is call them "a prick" to make them instantly and completely realign their views to your blinkered and naive outlook. Seriously, get over yourself. Yes, I am laughing at you.
Ladies and Gentlemen,
Welcome to Thunder Dome! Tonight for your viewing pleasure we have "Arab Biased Anonymous Coward" and "Jewish Biased Matt Byant".
We will let the "Dome" determine what thousands of years of war has not...who gets the area formerly known as "Palestine"!?
Guys, I was 11 years old in 1967 watching the tanks roll in the Six Day War and every year it's the same BS. Threats, intimidation, shelling, funerals, pictures of bombed out buildings, burnt flags and effigies, more lies and prevarications, bogus peace talks, more useless US aid to arsholes on both side we can ill afford.
As the Special Forces boys are wont to say...Fuck'em all and let God sort it out. Both sides act like spoiled brats that need a good asswhuppin. Both side deliberately self sabotage each and every decent solution that is put forth. Please let them both have what they deserve.
There will be no peace in the Middle East until each and everyone on BOTH sides are dead as they are both completely batshit crazy and will NEVER see reason or logic, EVER.
Push the button and get it over with please. The sooner we get to start over the better. Used to be we'd just have a nice plague or flood to keep the idiots in line but that's not kosher anymore.
And if that ever happens, do you think that Israel lift the economic embargo and return all the encroached and settled land, I wonder ? But, the point is moot. Looking at Israel's strategic position it seems much more probable that peace (of a sort) will only come when American support for Israel wavers and all its hostile neighbors kick the door down. It wouldn't be pretty and I wouldn't be pleased to see it. When you have regained your composure a bit, Matt, I am still genuinely interested in your thoughts on this point. An ounce of practical strategic advantage is worth a tonne of moral justification, but this thread doesn't seem to have got past the moral justification.
Seriously, what are you smoking, rolled pages of the Koran? After Germany launched two aggressive wars against her neighbours the Germans were punished, their borders changed and land given to the victors. After six decades of aggressive wars against Israel you want to give the Arabs an extra country, shedloads of aid money, and tell them it was "right"?
"......return all the encroached and settled land....." This just shows the disconnect far too prevalent in certain circles. Firstly, seeing as there is no legal country that Israel is "encroaching" on - the Arabs passed on their chance for legal recognition in 1948 - any and all land in the West Bank is up for negotiation. If the Arabs don't want to negotiate, and Abbas has done all he can to avoid negotiations, then Israel can do as it pleases. Secondly, no-one is insisting that the Arabs return any land they are "encroaching" on or stop any "settlement" building activity in the West Bank, despite any are of it being up for negotiations. Yeah, spot the double standard!
"..... all its hostile neighbors kick the door down...." Oops, looks like you forget the history of the last sixty years! The neighbours tried plenty of times, going right back to 1948, and they got beaten every time. But what really exposes that old Fakeistinian and Pan-Arab pipe dream is the modern reality of the Middle East - all those neighbours are too busy fighting each other. Just look at Syria and Iraq, where open warfare is going on between Shia and Sunni sects, then look at the Gulf States and their current problems with Iran stirring up their Shia communities, and even Saudi and their extremist problems and their involvement in Yemen. The Lebanon is lining up for another civil war and Jordan is one step away from one with the Fakeistinians (who have tried twice to take over the country). The truth is the neighbours are all too busy sorting out the decades of their own despotic dictatorships to rally behind the Islamic flag for another go at Israel. And the majority of those countries mentioned are dependent on the US for their continued security, which means they will never openly attack Israel again, so you can kiss your Pan-Arab pipe dream goodbye, it ain't going to happen. The old backers of the Arab dictators, Soviet Russia and Communist China, are now too busy trying to export to the West to meddle too much in the Middle East. individually, none of those neighbours has the military might to seriously threaten Israel beyond the usual terrorist attacks. So take that strategic perspective and sit on it.
Thankyou, I am reading your comments with interest, whilst picking my way through all the rather unnecessary and uncalled for insults, which do not make a positive impression, BTW. What would be the harm in keeping it civil ? Just FYI I am a non-practicing christian. I have no personal stake in the war, and I have less than zero personal affiliation with Islamist politics. I have an interest in history and current affairs, and naturally I have opinions, which I can express and defend robustly. But my opinions are not fixed in stone, which is why I am interested in what you have to say. Your assessment of Israel's strategic position is interesting. I would only like to take issue with your comment that "The Arabs passed on their chance for legal recognition in 1948" This is an extremely weak argument. Political history is in constant flux and states routinely split and merge to form new states.
".... I would only like to take issue with your comment that "The Arabs passed on their chance for legal recognition in 1948" This is an extremely weak argument....." What, weak as in completely destroys the Fakeistinian charade weak you mean? The Arabs refused to accept the UN Partition Plan in 1948, a plan unanimously accepted by the UN General Council except for members of the Arab League. Instead they launched a war of aggression against the new State of Israel. They lost and then spent another thirty years trying the same stupidity time and time again, until Egypt decided the Pan-Arab pipe dream of erasing Israel simply wasn't worth holding back Egypt's development for anymore. The Arabs are the only group of countries that has mounted not one but three major wars of aggression, lost all three, and still insisted they should get what they want.
BTW, as a "lapsed" Christian, please do tell how you feel about the continued decline of the Christian community in the former Palestine Mandate? Please do try and pretend it's due to Israel, but I feel forced to point out in advance that Israel is the only country in the Middle East with a growing Christian population.
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