Wales slams Amazon over lack of Kindle support A publisher has attacked Amazon over its failure to offer books in Welsh on the Kindle e-reading device. More than 1,500 people have also signed a petition demanding the all-conquering badboy of bookselling change its policy after the imprint attacked it in the Welsh press. Y Lolfa, a small publisher based near Aberystwyth, …
“Wnes i ddarllen hyn mewn 5 diwrnod, doeddwn i ddim yn gally rhoi hi lawr! Werth pob ceiniog a awr! Joia pobl!”According to Google Translate, this means: “I read this in 5 days and could possibly have wished I did not put her down! Worth every penny and now! Polite people" [That can't be right].
I'm rusty, but I'd say something like:
"I read this in 5 days, and couldn't put it down. Worth every penny and more.[word that is not welsh] people"
By the way, why so much Welsh negativity? I can take a joke as can most of my fellow sheep-shaggers, but there are some not very nice undertones in some of these posts... Klingon ffs
@Pen-Y-Gos, and JustaKos: Cheers for the clarifications!
Incidentally, I grew up in the very "English [language]" South Gower. I do not natively speak Welsh, and like others, had to do it for a few years in Comprehensive School.
Not interested at all in languages, but having to take at least ONE at 'O' level (showing my age) I chose Welsh over French and German, simply because I found it easier. As it was, I failed the O level.
Growing up in this "insular" society, as a kid, Welsh was this annoying language that confused road signs, and often stole from our choice of TV channels.
It wasn't until I went to Cardiff University that I started to pay attention, as alot of the (mostly English) students would ask me if I spoke Welsh.. At the end of my time at Cardiff I was virtually fluent, through no specific learning classes.
It's at times like these, when I read the majority of posts on this topic, that I tend to brush up on it :)
It is highly problematical that a large organisation that controls the biggest selling eBook format should have the right to determine what books are sold or not sold. The cost of making the book suitable for the Kindle format is borne by the publisher. What would it cost Amazon to sell this book for the Kindle, even if it didn't sell a single copy? I would hope this is just bureaucratic sloppiness rather than anything more sinister.
@Anonymous Coward 101:
It is highly problematical that a large organisation that controls the biggest selling eBook format should have the right to determine what books are sold or not sold
They can use their distribution system as they see fit - they're not running a charity.
Nothing's stopping you writing a book, setting up your own website and looking after billing and distribution...
You can get self-published crud on Kindle but you can't get Welsh language books from an established publisher? The size of the market is irrelevant. I can understand a small independent bookseller being reluctant to keep a lot of Welsh stock, but these are eBooks and Amazon has plenty of server space. The default view that everyone should just speak English is anti-free trade. If people want to buy Welsh books on Kindle (and plainly they do as they bought them last year) then they should be permitted to do so.
Bit of a red herring - written Welsh is far more standardised than the spoken dialects, and there is no serious difficulty in comprehension for speakers, wherever they come from. There are differences between the spoken dialects in various corners of our little land, but probably rather less than between heavy-duty Glaswegian, Essex-speak and rural Devonian (and home counties plum-in-the-mouth).
Anyway, as far as publishing books goes, the author writes what the author wants to write.
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What are you trying to achieve with that, exactly? I'm sure Pen Y Groes will be impressed (or miffed; I think he's normally the one who goes for "Make a Welsh pride point by writing a post most people on the forum won't understand" and you've beaten him to it. Reminiscent of the earlier comments about Welsh people doing it to spite the English. Clap. Clap. Clap.
I wonder if Amazon's problem is to do with complaint-handling; if there's a complaint about the content of a book (eg copyright, obscenity, libel), then they will want to check over the book to make sure that complaint is valid before pulling the book. If they don't have anyone who can read Welsh, then that's going to be a problem, whereas Amazon probably does have someone who can read Klingon - at least, well enough to be able to chuck out completely groundless complaints.
It seems crazy, but you may be right. I can't think of any other practical difficulty that they might be having.
So the question then is : why can't they employ one or maybe two people at the most to do this? Are they afraid of having employees involved in something other than distribution in the UK?
"I wonder if Amazon's problem is to do with complaint-handling; if there's a complaint about the content of a book (eg copyright, obscenity, libel), then they will want to check over the book to make sure that complaint is valid before pulling the book. If they don't have anyone who can read Welsh, then that's going to be a problem, whereas Amazon probably does have someone who can read Klingon - at least, well enough to be able to chuck out completely groundless complaints."
A good point, however the Welsh assembly offer free translation services - I'm sure they'd also do free checks if there's a complaint, as you suggest.
There are already ties between Amazon and Wales with the HUGE distribution centre in Swansea... Ok, so it may be "just a big warehouse" but you can bet that channels were open between the Welsh assembly and amazon prior to this being built.
"There are already ties between Amazon and Wales with the HUGE distribution centre in Swansea... Ok, so it may be "just a big warehouse" but you can bet that channels were open between the Welsh assembly and amazon prior to this being built."
Yeah - if they're the same as in the North those ties were "Here - have a big grant to build a warehouse so you can employ our constituents for a lower wage than you would pay anywhere else in Britain."
I think it's closer to: "I read this in 5 days, couldn't put her down! Worth every penny and hour! Enjoy people!"
As many of the commenters have said, all the publishers want is a means of categorising their already existing e-books as Welsh, with just another category entry. Which Amazon say they're working on, splendid.
Currently there are Welsh publishers (including Y Lolfa, Gomer etc) who have Welsh language books in print. Many, many books. What they wish to do is offer these EXISTING Welsh books as ebooks on kindle, which is probably the most widely known epublishing platform, which they can't do since Amazon has stopped them submitting them as English titles, but not allowing them to be submitted as Welsh.
There's no call for a subsidy, no call for translating existing books or any of the other nonsense that some commentards have been complaining about. Simply access, at standard terms, to a publishing platform.
"There's no call for a subsidy, no call for translating existing books or any of the other nonsense that some commentards have been complaining about. Simply access, at standard terms, to a publishing platform."
Then they should set one up themselves. Apparently it's all the rage on the Internet, you know ... Actually, I'm surprised Cymdeithas Yr Iaith hasn't set something up for them, since they're recommending that Welsh authors move towards other platforms. But then Cymdeithas is probably too tied up putting their little stickers up wherever they see English in public life.
Other than the lawsuit/libel explanation given earlier I can see no reason why they can't add a new language option. So as an interim workaround why don't they publish the books as another non-English language?
E.g - Does amazon allow 'old english/anglo-saxon' language books (e.g. Beowulf)? If so what language are they classed as, and maybe Welsh could use that. If not then use Klingon.
Would Amazon know the difference? Would anybody know the difference (joke).
Just make sure that the title or cover has a clue to the fact that it is Welsh (discrete sheep/rugby ball/mt snowdon on the cover or a picture of the beautiful Pembrokeshire coastline)
They shouldn't have to do this though - sort it out Amazon
PS. I am not, never have been, and have no intention of ever being Welsh and.or speaking/reading Welsh - but support the protection of heritage (or more correctly I object to the blocking of the ability of Welsh to protect their own heritage)
... so that Cymraeg is treated in the same way as Breton or Catalan (or Manx or Kernowek).
Welsh is most certainly spoken in the Americas - think Thomas Jefferson/Pennsylvania, USA and Patagonia, Argentina.
The biggest irony is, of course, that Amazon have a major distribution centre located just off the M4 in Swansea/Abertawe - and I'm pretty sure there was a 'development grant' for them to do this from the WAG.
"Consistency would be appreciated
... so that Cymraeg is treated in the same way as Breton or Catalan (or Manx or Kernowek)."
Why do you use the Welsh name in an English sentence? That usage is more what I'd expect from the rabid types posting on Betsan's blog on the BBC News site, and goes against your own consistency request.
"The biggest irony is, of course, that Amazon have a major distribution centre located just off the M4 in Swansea/Abertawe - and I'm pretty sure there was a 'development grant' for them to do this from the WAG."
I made the "grant" point myself before reading your post, but there's no irony. Going by my dictionary, irony involves contradiction. All Amazon did was plonk down wherever they were given the highest bribe (factoring in what level of wages they could expect to pay), and there's nothing to contradict there.
> Why do you use the Welsh name in an English sentence? That usage is more what I'd expect from the rabid types posting on Betsan's blog on the BBC News site, and goes against your own consistency request.
Because he wanted to? Were you trying to make some kind of point?
It's bordering on the ad hom which, like sarcasm, is the tool of the ignorant.
Why is it that all their road signs are in Welsh too?
It's a diabolical plot to kill the evil saes!
there are loads of un gated level crossings in darkest wales - each of which is preceeded by the bilingual sign explaining what it is, and how it works and what to do in the case of an emergency. in welsh first!
now given welsh is an aincient tongue - so aincient indeed that words for new technologies have to be imported from other tongues - 'radio transistor' from the english (you have to say it with the accent) and fenester from the latin (i shit you not - welsh is older than windows, glass ones that is) so you can imagine the kind of essay you end up with trying to writh the level crossing warning.
consequently the saes never get as far as the bit they understand, and <hopefully> get hit by a train
Wosa an nowodhow da a-dro dhe'n kynsa lyver Kindle yn Kernewek, my a wayt Amazon a wra dalleth dyllo lyvrow yn lies yeth usyes le. Nyns eus travyth a wra Sowson dhe dhos ha bos serrys avel skoodhyans rag an yethow Keltek a Vreten Veur...
(After the good news about the first Kindle book in Cornish, I hope Amazon will start to publish books in many lesser-used languages. There is nothing that makes the English become angry like support for the Celtic languages of Great Britain...)
I know what you mean (I'm English) - but there are different things that make people angry. Some get angry at the expense of having to translate things into Welsh etc (government sites) for which they may have a point. But this is not about that, and no English should get angry about this other than anger with Amazon.
Even if Welsh died out as a living language there would still be a need for people to study it (as people today study old English or Latin). Printed books are being replaced with e-books so where will the documented material be in the future?.
Technology is not just a way to progress but also provides us with a better way to record history. If publishers start not allowing 'dead' languages in e-books (just by not having a section for them) then what will be used in the future for historical research? Where will students go to get the material? The library (if there are any left). And that is even if Welsh dies out - which it may or may not do.
So yes, I'm English and angry - but not with the Celtic language supporters in this case - but with Amazon.
Many years ago whilst living in Wales we had a party and a man recited a poem in Welsh.
Even though I could not understand it I felt that it was somehow moving. I asked what the poem was about and was told that it was a yearning for something so ancient that it had been forgotten what the yearning was for.
Quite magical, anyone know the name of the poem?
Not much to go on, and I'm no student of Welsh poetry, but the poem discussed here : ‘Cofio’ gan Waldo Williams; ‘Remembering’ seems to fit the bill.
could fail to appreciate all this whining and whinging about the electronic publication of the text of what is, above and beyond all else an aural language that has only been nailed to a page for 1500 years or so! (which is about 1/3 of it's history i think) - and then grievously fucked about to fit latin/english letter frequencies.
I don't even know what your point is? Only been nailed to a page for 1500 years? What? Do you mean it's too 'young'? What are you trying to say? Irony - where?
The version of English you are using, very badly by the way, in your comment has only been 'nailed to a page' for 600 years - and even since then it has gone through quite a substantial change - so this affects whether Amazon should have a section for it how, exactly?
The only irony is that you seem not to be able to use a modern language to clearly make a point about how useless old languages are. Perhaps you should try writing in Welsh to see if it's better.
"Why does the Welsh language attract such hatred from people (mainly English) who don't speak it?"
It's probably not the language as such, but the way that the Welsh speak about the English when it comes up. Doesn't matter what your attitude to the Welsh or the language is, you'll always be a bastad Sais and personally responsible for the Welsh being conquered. The English are simply responding in kind.
'Responding in kind', you say? Looking back over the comments there are plenty which are just gratuitously hostile (eg "Cast off your dribble-soaked language"), whereas the pro-Welsh comments tend to be civilised in the face of such nastiness.
This issue only matters to those who would like to be able to buy Welsh-language e-books from Amazon, and the cure to the problem would not affect anyone else. So why the hostility?
If you've had the misfortune to meet the sort of Welsh tosser who would see you only as a "bastad saes", then you have my sympathy. But we're not all like that, any more (I hope) than the examples present here represent all English.
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