back to article LibreOffice 4.0 ships with new features, better looks

The Document Foundation has announced LibreOffice 4.0, the latest version of the free software competitor to Microsoft Office that spun off from the OpenOffice.org effort in 2010, describing it as nothing less than "the free office suite the community has been dreaming of since 2001." "LibreOffice 4.0 is the first release that …

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      1. AceRimmer

        Re: Being driven in droves to LibreOffice??

        It's not always been like that; The Office license used to allow installation on a desktop (primary computer) and a laptop (secondary computer).

        The current licensing strategy is going to hurt sales and revenue and Microsoft really need to look at releasing a low cost basic version.

        1. Test Man
          FAIL

          Re: Being driven in droves to LibreOffice??

          "The current licensing strategy is going to hurt sales and revenue and Microsoft really need to look at releasing a low cost basic version."

          Like Office Starter that comes with new PCs?

          Or like Office Web Apps which you can use online?

          1. AceRimmer
            FAIL

            Re: Being driven in droves to LibreOffice??

            Failing back at you

            Office starter is only available pre installed on new PCs, I can't go out and buy a copy. It exists purely to suck people into buying a proper version

            Office web apps is online only and doesn't even come close to being something that could be used every day

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Being driven in droves to LibreOffice??

      It doesnt say that at all. All it says it that it is licenced to one computer. If your Hard Disk borks, then you can simply reinstall it, and it will recognise the same hardware hash.

      If you go for the more sensible Office 365 option then you can also manage your 5 devices online:

      http://blogs.office.com/b/office-next/archive/2012/08/27/click-to-run-and-office-on-demand.aspx

      Rather a lot more powerful than any Install Tools for Linux!

      1. Anonymous Coward
        FAIL

        Re: Being driven in droves to LibreOffice??

        Hardware hash eh? That's why I used up all my online activations of Office 2010 on multi-boot? It checks for what OS you're running too. Upgrade OS and it requires reactivation, so no, it's not just a hardware hash.

        P.S. Use Linux and you can take your install with you wherever you go, as the DRM will see all machines as identical if you stick to one WINE version ;-)

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Being driven in droves to LibreOffice??

          Reinstall the same OS first then. It's not hard...

  1. Richard Wharram

    Am I the only one who likes the Ribbon interface?

    Also is LO4 available on the Ubuntu Software Centre or do I have to install manually?

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Am I the only one who likes the Ribbon interface?

      Yes.

    2. Norphy

      No, you're not. I like it too.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        No, you're not. I like it too.

        No you don't.

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      "Am I the only one who likes the Ribbon interface?"

      Yes.

    4. AceRimmer
      Mushroom

      Am I the only one who likes the Ribbon interface?

      I like it too, in fact I would hate to go back to the old menus now. The ribbon has everything a mouse click or two away and has functionality grouped in a sensible manner.

      One of the best things about it is that when I go and use someone else's PC I can actually find stuff. The old menus were far too easy to customise and made.

      Anyone who still finds it difficult after 5 years shouldn't be calling themselves an IT pro. Strangely enough though it is only "IT" types who I ever hear complaining about it. The rest of the world just seems to use it and get on with their lives

      1. I like noodles

        Re: Am I the only one who likes the Ribbon interface?

        Anyone who still finds it difficult after 5 years shouldn't be calling themselves an IT pro.

        Anything that takes 5 years to become less difficult shouldn't have been released in the first place.

        1. AceRimmer
          FAIL

          Re: Am I the only one who likes the Ribbon interface?

          I fail to see what's difficult about it

          1. I like noodles

            Re: Am I the only one who likes the Ribbon interface?

            I fail to see what's difficult about it

            I fail to see what was wrong with menus.

            1. Neil B

              Re: Am I the only one who likes the Ribbon interface?

              Nothing, to begin with. Everything, eventually.

        2. JDX Gold badge

          Re: Am I the only one who likes the Ribbon interface?

          >>Anything that takes 5 years to become less difficult shouldn't have been released in the first place.

          It doesn't. Except to the kind of person who finds menus difficult to start with.

        3. This post has been deleted by its author

        4. Tom Maddox Silver badge
          Trollface

          Re: Am I the only one who likes the Ribbon interface?

          Anything that takes 5 years to become less difficult shouldn't have been released in the first place.

          You mean like . . . Linux?

      2. Abot13

        Re: Am I the only one who likes the Ribbon interface?

        nowadays the ribbon can be customized too. And I still hate it.

        Also IT Pros tend to look further and are less bound by company dictated softwares like office. So most IT pros tend to have office only to read some office only formats. and use the alternatives for higher productivity or at least ease of use.

      3. Ken Hagan Gold badge

        Re: Am I the only one who likes the Ribbon interface?

        "Anyone who still finds it difficult after 5 years shouldn't be calling themselves an IT pro."

        Nobody is suggesting that they've spent the last 5 years trying it out. The point was that it threatened to transform an entire generation of power users into unskilled noobs overnight. In response, the vast majority stuck with what they knew and remained productive. They're not paid to "use Microsoft software". They are paid to get a job done. To judge from Windows 8, Microsoft *still* don't understand this point.

        These people still don't like the ribbon because it still doesn't work for them and they are still paid to get a job done. There's really no reason why they should ever "upgrade" to a "modern" version of Office.

        The amazing thing is that *anyone* responded to that slap in the face by "sitting down and re-training themselves".

        1. Fred Flintstone Gold badge

          Re: Am I the only one who likes the Ribbon interface?

          The point was that it threatened to transform an entire generation of power users into unskilled noobs overnight. In response, the vast majority stuck with what they knew and remained productive. They're not paid to "use Microsoft software". They are paid to get a job done

          Thank you, couldn't have said it better myself. There is a process with power users: they mine for more features that make their life easier and become even faster and more proficient with the package. In other words, they are the happy few that derive more value from the software than the average user (for instance, they also use keyboard shortcuts instead of the mouse).

          I have spent a good 20 years writing documentation, the last part more on repairing the stuff others cooked up (ironically, by using OpenOffice - Word has a *serious* problem when it comes to cut & paste if you accidentally drag formatting commands along). Astonishingly, I am NOT a touch typer, but I was *seriously* fast in repairing documents - until those idiots in Redmond came up with this ribbon rubbish.

          I have effectively stopped using Word after that - I now mostly work in OpenOffice (didn't get on with LibreOffice for some reason - will test the v4 release shortly) and only load in a doc into Word for finishing. Otherwise I don't touch it, although I could really, really do with the "return to last cursor position Shift-F5" feature in Word, but the feature request is still sitting there untouched. As a matter of fact, the Navigator in OOo beats the living crap out of the Document Map in Word - it's FAR more flexible - so for larger documents it's simply easier, also because it doesn't crash so often. And it doesn't matter what I use as base platform, Windows, OSX or Linux, which helps too.

          Oh, and Excel? I stopped using that years ago because I work a lot with languages, and when I stopped using it they were still stupid enough not to tokenise formulas. That means a cell containing the German "=SUMME(A2:A6)" would not work in my English version which was expeting "=SUM(A2:A6)". I'm not sure from what planet the fools were who dreamt that one up, but they should never be left near anything more complex than a blackboard and chalk ever again.

          Of course, YMMV, but for me, MS lost the plot quite some time ago.

          1. Dan 55 Silver badge
            Mushroom

            Re: Am I the only one who likes the Ribbon interface?

            Don't forget the separator changing in CSV files depending on the locale.

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Mushroom

          Re: Am I the only one who likes the Ribbon interface?

          Anyone who can't use the keyboard shortcuts to operate MS office doesn't deserve to be called competent in using any version of office, period.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Am I the only one who likes the Ribbon interface?

            some of us are paid by the hour.

            keyboard shortcuts? What are they?

      4. Roland6 Silver badge

        Re: Am I the only one who likes the Ribbon interface?

        >The ribbon has everything a mouse click or two away and has functionality grouped in a sensible manner.

        Sorry while I roll round the floor laughing!

        My daughter (age 8) frequently asks questions about where is such and such a function, which I (and any normal person) would expect to be on the ribbon and find that no it's not and because the Ribbon can't be customised in the same way as the old menu's (okay buy the developer kit etc. etc.) I can't alter it to help her.

        Similarly with my parents (age ~80) ...

        So yes the ribbon could of been really good, but instead ...

        1. AceRimmer
          WTF?

          Re: Am I the only one who likes the Ribbon interface?

          My daughter (age 8) frequently asks questions about where is such and such a function

          Name one

          1. Michael Wojcik Silver badge

            Re: Am I the only one who likes the Ribbon interface?

            Name one [function that's not on the Ribbon]

            Here's one I had to locate today: Office 2007, view all the SMTP headers for a message (something any competent email client does automatically, or with at most one obvious operation). I had to look this up in the help, as there's no indication whatsoever in the UI of how you'd do this.

            In the Ribbon, go to the Options section (why Options?) and click[1] on the "open dialog" icon - the completely unintuitive, almost unnoticeable decoration that looks like a capital gamma with an arrow inside it.

            That's not on the Ribbon - you use the Ribbon to get to it, but it and many other functions in the dialogs are not on the Ribbon proper. You have to hunt through the dialogs (SMTP headers are in the Options dialog?!!) , which you have to know to look for in the first place. Sure, the help tells you about them. How many users read the help? Why should I have to search the help in the first place, for straightforward functions like this?

            Oh, just remembered another one: you can't turn "check spelling as I type" on and off in Word using the Ribbon. You have to go through Word Options - several levels of dialog madness. I nearly always leave that crap off, but once in a while it's useful.

            [1] It is possible to do this with the keyboard, though it requires faffing about with the cursor keys, as far as I can tell.

          2. Roland6 Silver badge

            Re: Am I the only one who likes the Ribbon interface?

            >Name one

            1. Print

            and practically everything that was originally on the File menu tab. (This also catches the parents out).

            2. Crop a picture - the 'crop' on the ribbon re-sizes the image it doesn't crop it.

      5. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Am I the only one who likes the Ribbon interface?

        'Strangely enough though it is only "IT" types who I ever hear complaining about it. The rest of the world just seems to use it and get on with their lives...'

        Maybe that's because "IT types" have some notion of efficiency and how to lay out a helpful user interface. Whereas "the rest of the world" has been brainwashed into thinking that there is only Microsoft's way or the highway. (Indeed, in many organizations that is literally true).

        'Strangely enough though it is only doctors who I ever hear complaining about [smoking, excessive alcohol, lack of exercise...]. The rest of the world just seems to use it and get on with their lives'

        1. JDX Gold badge

          Re: Am I the only one who likes the Ribbon interface?

          >>Maybe that's because "IT types" have some notion of efficiency and how to lay out a helpful user interface.

          No they really don't. The last person you want developing a user interface is a software developer... that leads to "well just learn these 100 keyboard shortcuts and then it's easy". Crap UX is one of the only real failings of traditional FOSS offerings... Blender, GIMP, Vi, etc.

          1. AJ MacLeod

            Re: Am I the only one who likes the Ribbon interface?

            Except that VI's user interface is actually very logical and efficient, if not intuitive (use gvim if you need menus, it's been around for decades now). I never did find GIMP particularly difficult to use, and have always found it vastly easier than Photoshop...

            Blender's UI , on the other hand, I cannot defend - I have tried and tried and completely failed to ever get comfortable with it despite having learned to use many other 3d modelling and CAD programs over the years. It even drove me to actually paying for closed-source software for the first time in fifteen years (AC3D... at least it's cross-platform) - somewhat ironically, for work being contributed to an open source project!

            LibreOffice's interface is quite OK in my experience, and so much better than any post-2003 MS Office UI. If you're looking for a rarely-used feature, you will already have a good idea of which menu it should live on and just have to look for its name - pictorial ribbon-type interfaces will never work logically because they often have to depict physically functions or actions which have no physical form.

          2. Michael Wojcik Silver badge

            Re: Am I the only one who likes the Ribbon interface?

            The last person you want developing a user interface is a software developer... that leads to "well just learn these 100 keyboard shortcuts and then it's easy". Crap UX is one of the only real failings of traditional FOSS offerings... Blender, GIMP, Vi, etc.

            No, the last person I want developing a UI is someone who makes wild, unfounded generalizations about "crap UX", with no acknowledgement that different users have different requirements, preferences, and expectations.

            And yes, I've studied UI/UIM/UX design, done user research, blah blah blah.

      6. JDX Gold badge

        Re: Am I the only one who likes the Ribbon interface?

        I don't know if I like it but I have no problem with it... it appeared and within a week I was happy using it. Sometimes I have to google where to find a specific feature I haven't used before or for a long time, but I don't think that's different than the old system.

        The wife loves Ribbon, says it's way better.

      7. Dazed and Confused

        Re: Am I the only one who likes the Ribbon interface?

        Strangely enough though it is only "IT" types who I ever hear complaining about it.

        Well perhaps you should try either washing your ears out, or talking to so non IT types then.

        Plenty of people complain about.

    5. JDC
      Thumb Up

      No, I like it too.

      I run Ubuntu at home, and on the odd occasion I have to do some kind of editing... having to fire up LO fills me with dread - that clunky, fugly interface. Pasting an image into the document and that bloody ship anchor thing showing up - but no image! Poking around the menus trying to find the option...

    6. Neil B
      Thumb Up

      No. It's excellent. The problem is that it favours inexperienced users over "power" users (whatever the f**k that actually means), and it's the latter that love to post on forums like this, about how their oh-so-wondrous productivity is reduced to naught by the "hated" ribbon.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        No. It's excellent. The problem is that it favours inexperienced users over "power" users (whatever the f**k that actually means), and it's the latter that love to post on forums like this, about how their oh-so-wondrous productivity is reduced to naught by the "hated" ribbon.

        You're missing something. The ribbon reduces *all* to novice users - AND KEEPS THEM THAT WAY.

        The ribbon is like a big fat sign in front of a new shiny motorway of speed that says DO NOT ENTER, and forces everyone, even those competent to move at high speed, down the muddy single file track that runs next to that motorway. It sucks in so many ways it's worth patenting as a "method to avoid productivity". Maybe that's its real purpose: hoping it get pirated by other nations and so nuke their competitive productivity.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        @Neil B 12:12

        In my experience, "power user" is a term used by people with hubris to describe themselves. Don't get into a discussion with a someone who calls themselves a power user (though in their minds it's probably Power User) - if you don't agree with them you're a stupid noob. Apparently 4Chan had a good way of putting it - "You can't win an argument with a f***tard."

        1. Fred Flintstone Gold badge

          Re: @Neil B 12:12

          In my experience, "power user" is a term used by people with hubris to describe themselves.

          I disagree. To me, the definition of a power user is someone who keeps an eye on how they work, and actively and continuously seek ways to improve it. A good example of that is keyboard shortcuts: if you do something often, finding a quicker way aggregates in a considerable time saving. They may even (*gasp*) read the documentation..

    7. Sooty

      "Am I the only one who likes the Ribbon interface?"

      No wij you're not

      I like it as well, it's a good replacement for the toolbar. The only problem I have with it is that they took away the menu bar too.

      1. dajames
        Pint

        Ribbon interface ...

        I like it as well, it's a good replacement for the toolbar.

        No it isn't. The toolbar can be edited, it doesn't waste as much vertical screen space, and -- most importantly -- toolbars can be docked against the side of a window rather than just the top, so they can use the excess screen width resulting from the stupidly wide-screen monitors that seem all the rage without wasting any screen height.

        The only problem I have with it is that they took away the menu bar too.

        Not really ... the ribbon is akin to a menu (drawn differently, and camouflaged with pictures). It's the toolbar they took away.

        It was unnecessary, and I wish they'd left well alone.

        Beer, because ...

      2. Richard Wharram

        D'oh

        Forgive my memory but Sooty is who from somewhere else? :)

  2. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    It's a pretty sophisticated editor

    that's about all I got to say. There's no need for a paid office suite and this thing just gets better as people add to it with problems they face and overcome with solutions.

    The battle vs Microsoft office is already won. It's just that we do not control the fake commercial media.

  3. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    The more MS pushes people to rent their software

    The more people will realise what a stupid idea that is and move to something they can actually own.

    1. TheVogon
      Mushroom

      Re: The more MS pushes people to rent their software

      Just like how unpopular car leasing isnt?

      1. sabroni Silver badge

        Re: The more MS pushes people to rent their software

        No, like how unpopular cheese leasing is.

        1. JDX Gold badge

          Re: The more MS pushes people to rent their software

          So you admit you can't come up with a good counter argument then? You eat cheese and it's gone... you use software and it's still there.

          Most of the world's software is going service-based implicitly simply by going web-based after all... gmail, dropbox, Jira, github, etc - the question is only if you pay for them or not.

          1. sabroni Silver badge
            Happy

            Re: The more MS pushes people to rent their software

            No, I can come up with plenty of counter arguments thanks. I was merely pointing out that while car leasing is successful that doesn't really bear any relevance on the discussion. If the fact cheese gets eaten negates this argument please feel free to substitute any of the other things that aren't normally leased for the cheese. There are plenty to pick from. Everything except cars really.....

          2. Dan 55 Silver badge
            Stop

            Re: The more MS pushes people to rent their software

            If you want an analogy, renting Office is like renting a set of shelves and fixing them up in your house, it's a bit silly.

            Dropbox, gmail, github, Jira, and so on offer one or a combination of sharing, collaboration, and online storage. You use basic services for free or pay for enhanced services and when you're finished you can take your ball and go home. Bolting these services on to Office for home users as an excuse to charge them rent that is nonsensical. Office needs sharing, collaboration and online storage as much as Photoshop or Notepad do.

            Ensentially Office is finished (as in completed) and Microsoft has been unable to develop other new products or enter new markets to bring in the cash so they're leaning on the only two crutches they know (Office and Windows). After spending a couple of versions flailing around with Office's UI, file formats, and licensing conditions as justification for making customers go out and get the latest version, Microsoft finally come out and admit that it's about making their customers rent their software.

            Home users can get by fine with Office 2003, 2000 or dare I say 97. If MS carry on down this path it's probable that within a couple of years you'll only be able to rent Office from Microsoft, at least in the west. Imagine if this were the only option in 2003 and imagine how much it'd have costed home users to rent Office for the last ten years, all because they wanted to do their home finances in Excel and write a couple of letters a month.

            MS does need paying for its software but average users don't have to upgrade to every new version. However everything else they try has failed which is why they're reduced to renting Office instead of selling it.

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