back to article Psst, wanna block nuisance calls? BT'll do it... for a price

BT's latest phone, the BT6500, can prevent spammers from getting through to the harassed householder, forwarding them to an integrated answerphone - so BT still gets paid, of course. The householder will have to check those messages regularly though, as any caller withholding their Caller ID could end up there too, along with …

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  1. Michael Hutchinson
    Thumb Down

    Some oversights in this approach

    If these automated calls go to an answering machine, that means that the scammer will know it's a real number with a valid recipient. Equivalent to replying to a spam email and confirming to the spammer that the email address has a valid recipient.

    1. Number6

      Re: Some oversights in this approach

      Provided they give a consistent caller ID they'll consistently get the answerphone. Or I'll add them to the blocked list and they'll get the Asterisk "Weasels" message and a dropped call instead.

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  2. BryanM

    Blame the Government

    It's all the Governments fault for forcing the banks to offer PPI refunds, and that stupid grant for cavity wall insullation. I've never taken out PPI with loans, and I don't want cavity wall insullation. There's aother piece of nonsense just been announced by the latest shambolic idiots in charge of the country and straight away you realise that it's just another excuse for the spammers to try and call you endlessly.

    Write to your MP and tell them to stop interfering. Any party will do, they're all shambolic idiots unfit to govern.

    1. graeme leggett Silver badge

      Re: Blame the Government

      PPI lot phoned the other day. Told me that 90% of people with credit cards were mis-sold PPI. I told them that means that 1 in 10 calls they make are to people who don't have a PPI case - and I'm that one. Still took a bit more time to shake them off.

  3. Jamie Kitson

    What's the point...

    if you have to listen to the answer phone messages anyway?

  4. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Premium rate numbers

    What they (telcos) should do is make it easier for end users (subscribers) to have premium rate numbers (not easy at the moment - i checked). I could then give this number out to all and sundry (and use it for all website that 'require' a phone number, etc) - safe in the knowledge that I would be earning money for every spam call - it would also block most cold calls as most normal companies have automatic blocks on outgoing premium rate numbers, so they wouldn't be able to call me. I would have a normal number too of course - for friends/family etc - this could be whitelist only, with a message to non-whitelisted IDs to call me back on the premium rate number.

    It is similar to having 2 (or 3) e-mail addresses, one for friends, and one dos one used to register with websites, etc - except that you would earn money if people used the second one.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Premium rate numbers

      Can you set the rate? If so, you just have to set it as high as the phone company's billing computer will go...and then you only have to get one call before you never need a phone again, ever.

  5. Nigel Whitfield.

    TPS are useless. So are Verizon UK

    I used to have an ISDN2 line, with a block of ten numbers; I ported those all to VoIP a few years back. But having ten sequential numbers, it's very obvious when a robo-dialler is attacking me. Call comes in on the business line first, silent. A short time later, on the ex directory line, silent, and then usually by the time it rings on the 'public' number there's someone there (and doubtless, the unused numbers in the gaps have been pestered too).

    All the numbers that ring are TPS registered; the vermin don't care, and lie when you ask them for their company name or address.

    A huge number (by which I mean almost all) of the UK caller IDs that are presented to my VoIP system turn out to have been allocated to Verizon UK. So as far as I'm concerned, they're facilitating law breakers, and are just as guilty. Perhaps if the phone companies themselves were fined, they'd make sure their customers behaved.

    Meanwhile, since everything is routed through 3CX, I have varying degrees of filtering. All incoming numbers are checked against a list of the common cold calling numbers, which are routed directly to a message reminding them they're calling a TPS registered line and breaking the law.

    Anonymous or unknown numbers go directly to voicemail.

    On the public number, an automated response tells people what number to press to speak to me, and warns them I'm not interested in sales and surveys, and will be very rude to them if they do press it.

    On the ex directory number, numbers for the more bewildered members of the family are whitelisted, while everyone else has to answer a maths question; press the right numbers and the call is connected.

    It works pretty well; but the fact that anyone has to go to these lengths to avoid harassment - seven cold calls in 10 minutes one day - shows just how feeble the TPS is; hardly surprising considering it's an offshoot of the Direct Marketing Association.

    Mandatory caller ID plus fines for both companies and the telcos that enable them, and in extremis the death penalty and confiscation of assets might finally stop these people.

  6. Arctic fox
    Happy

    The situation where I live (up the arse end of Arctic Nowhere) is rather different.

    Up here you only have to register your objection to cold calling and all the telesales etc companies get three months to comply. Thereafter the local telecom watchdog can (depending on the seriousness and scale of the breaches) do everything from fining them to shutting them down. Not saying the system is perfect but it has been several years since we have been bothered by those kinds of nuisance calls.

  7. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    My favorite

    For all PPI callers, I say, since you already know my life hsitory AND how much I am owed, why dont you just deduct your comission and send me the rest of the money!

  8. xyz Silver badge
    Happy

    I'm registered with TPS and it is shite but...

    The nuisance calls I get are all from BT wanting to flog me their Infinity. The other week they phoned me a 9 o'clock at night to try and flog the thing. You know what the moron at the other end said when I mentioned this... "it's only 5 to 9." KABOOM! I don't think they'll call back again.

  9. wowfood

    Circumvention

    The Telephone Preference Service is supposed to take care of this - register one's number and UK companies promise not to call one up at all hours selling stuff - but these days the majority of such calls originate outside the UK and thus outside the jurisdiction of the TPS or Ofcom, making it all but impossible to control.

    That and even companies in the UK are getting around this by disguising their sales calls as surveys, which are still allowed. I've had plenty of calls from Eon energy

    "Hi I'm calling to conduct a survey for eon energy"

    "Yeah we're registered with the TPS, so please remove me from your registers"

    "Ah but this is a survey not a sales call"

    "Yeah, and after the survey you'll start telling me how much cheaper you are, cut the bullshit and remove me from your registers."

    Not to mention the number of companies offering cheap / free solar panels / insulation etc who use the disguise of

    "Oh this isn't a sales call, we're just gauging interest and letting you know that the offer is out there, if you are interested we can call you back some other time to talk in more detail."

    If I get to the phone first I tend to threaten them followed by verbally abusing them because frankly they piss me off. Sadly my mother tends to get the phone first and doesn't bother with the threats, so we keep getting the calls every few days until I manage to get there first.

  10. JaitcH
    Thumb Up

    DO NOT CALL lists Do Work - especially with a large FINE!

    Canada and the USA has been plagued with these nuisance calls for years,

    Now both countries have DO NOT CALL lists in operation which MUST, by law, be honoured. Those foolhardy enough to ignore the Lists can be fined and/or have their telephone service ordered withdrawn.

    These are called SIT (Special Information Tones) signal: Vacant Circuit (out of service or non-existent phone number). The can be sampled at: < http://www.artofhacking.com/files/sounds/live/aoh_sit-vc.htm >.

    I made one using a pair of dual 555 ic's and it plays twice when I go off-hook (pick up the handset), then the handset is connected to the line.

    It is very easy to make (for techies) see: < http://www.cisco.com/en/US/products/hw/switches/ps2246/products_configuration_guide_chapter09186a00800ea889.html >

    Name Description:

    NC1 - No circuit found

    First Tone Frequency - Duration

    (Hz) (ms)

    985.2 380

    Second Tone Frequency - Duration

    (Hz) (ms)

    1428.5 380

    Third Tone Frequency - Duration

    (Hz) (ms)

    1776.7 380

    Since most of these machines are of US manufacture, they often drop the calls (and record the fact the number is "out of service"!

    1. James O'Shea

      Re: DO NOT CALL lists Do Work - especially with a large FINE!

      No they don't. I put both my cell phones onto the do not call list. I still get lots of sales calls on them. Indeed, I just got a call from 720-315-7898 (hey, spammers, call them!) trying to sell me some kind of insurance. Yes, they know that the phone is on the DNC list. No, they don't care.

      Your little trick is highly unlikely to work with a cell phone.

    2. John Smith 19 Gold badge

      Re: DO NOT CALL lists Do Work - especially with a large FINE!

      Sweet.

    3. Robin Bradshaw
      Thumb Up

      Re: DO NOT CALL lists Do Work - especially with a large FINE!

      I am intrigued by this idea, i checked the BT specs for there special information tones and it appears the UK only has one (950Hz,1400Hz,1800Hz all ±50Hz) you can find the specs here: http://www.sinet.bt.com/350v1p3.pdf about half way down page 4.

      The tolerance in the frequency of ±50Hz means the US tones are within the specs for the UK tones too.

      I want to test this so I have just made an outrageous £10 purchase of a USB 56k modem to hook up to my raspberry pi, I had an idea i could script it to watch for it to report a ring then wait for the ringing to stop force it off hook then either play an audio file or i think AT+VTS=[985,,38],[1428,,38],[1776,,38] will do it if its supported then force it back on hook. With a possible upgrade to asterisk and a suitable hell menu if i ever feel like paying for caller id.

      Anyone got any better ideas?

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: DO NOT CALL lists Do Work - especially with a large FINE!

        There's already a Truecall-like setup for Linux which is known to work on Pies. May be helpful for what you're up to as well. Details can be found on the Raspberry Pi main forum.

        No need to pay for caller ID with either of the two UK main providers.

        For BT, sign up for BT Privacy at Home.

        For Virgin, call customer service, you want caller ID for free like BT offer, and escalate to retentions if refused first time.

    4. Doctor Evil

      Re: DO NOT CALL lists Do Work - especially with a large FINE!

      Ah ha ha, I see you missed the headlines in Canada last year when it came out that overseas spammers were actually scooping the entire DNC database and using that as their call list -- because the contents are pretty much all guaranteed to be live numbers. And there's not a thing the CRTC could then or can now do about that; they're rather toothless outside of Canada.

      We are still plagued by these nuisance calls in Canada -- but you're much better off NOT registering your number on the national DNC list.

  11. Andy Fletcher

    Silence is golden

    Tried Spam Block on my Android mobile and set it up with such aggressive settings I got no calls at all. The wife wasn't impresssed, nor the office. For me...nirvana.

  12. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Hospices withhold their numbers

    I've had a friend in a hospice intermittently the last few weeks.

    The hospice's outgoing calls are number withheld, so for the last few weeks I've been reluctantly answering calls which normally I'd ignore.

    Can you imagine how it feels when some spammer calls me?

    I don't have to imagine.

    I can imagine the hell into which I would send the people who run these companies, and the companies who knowingly profit (as intermediaries) from them.

  13. billium
    Pint

    AC dribble

    Does any genuine person know what the few ACs mean by most calls don't touch the BT network? Is it something to do with BT wholesale not being BT or something?

    Have a good weekend all.

    1. Graham Cobb Silver badge

      Re: AC dribble

      No, the point is that BT are one of hundreds of licensed operators nowadays, most of whom are in the international call business and many of whom are focused on business users.

      Most businesses who make a lot of calls find that other operators are a lot cheaper than BT. That applies both to UK callers and to international callers. So, most of these calls originate outside the BT network. If you don't have a BT line the call won't touch the BT network at all. Even if you do have a BT line, the regulations require BT to accept the call and to believe what the other licensed operator tells it. BT can only impose its own rules when the call originates on BT or when they are the international carrier. Both are unlikely to be the case for these sorts of spammers.

      That said, I think actual forgery of UK CLIs is quite rare in the UK. It is illegal and it is much, much easier to (legally) withhold CLI or provide a presentation number (a different number but which is required to be dialable, not premium rate, and get back to the calling company). Most spam I receive with UK numbers is using 08-series numbers, which will be legally compliant presentation numbers.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: AC dribble

      No - it's not to do with BT / BT Wholesale.

      Other companies aside from BT own what in the olden days would have been called 'international exchanges'. Arbinet and Tata are probably the best known but are not the only ones. UK telcos can sign up with those companies, or if they're big enough they have their own switches and routes. Telcos who aren't BT avoid using BT because they're - relatively - expensive. International traffic using BT's network is therefore in the minority.

      An international call to a TalkTalk customer in the UK from an SFR customer in France will have used alternate routes. Companies with spare international capacity on leased lines will hook them up to Arbinet or whoever and sell minutes to the other users of that exchange, often using an auction-like process. Someone in SFR will have the job of choosing which option to take for their calls to the UK and they might make that choice weekly or daily or even in real-time using trading algorithms.

      An inbound international call might then enter the BT network at the last possible point, at which point all the BT switch knows is that the call is being handed to it from another UK operator. It doesn't know where it came from or who the origination operator was, it only knows dialled number, originating number and what operator is on the end of that interconnect. If the customer is on Virgin or C&W or any of the other operators with their own switches and local network (very common amongst businesses with ISDN or SIP trunks) then the call won't hit BT's switched network at all. An ISDN-30 or SIP trunk from Colt might use a BT Openreach last mile, but it never connects to a BT telephone switch. It arrives in the UK at the Arbinet exchange, might get carried up to Manchester on Nine's wholesale network, then gets handed over to C&W who then deliver the call to their customer.

      The PSTN isn't like the Internet in terms of having an originating IP address or a device MAC address - all an exchange sees is originating CLI and the destination number, and who is on the end of any given interconnect. If I take a call from Spectrum Telecom and it has 01234-567890 as the destination and 01273-222222 as the origination, that's all I know. I don't know if it originated on Spectrum's network or not, what country it really came from, how many operators it's been through - none of that. I have those three pieces of data and nothing else.

      1. Graham Cobb Silver badge

        Re: AC dribble

        I realise you were trying to simplify, for the purpose of this discussion, but actually BT gets two separate pieces of information about the originator when the call is handed over from another UK operator: the calling party number and the CLI are separate (and may be different, for several legitimate reasons). All BT is permitted to tell the user is the CLI. It can't change that (there used to be an exception that if it didn't trust that the originator was following the CLI rules it could replace the CLI with UNAVAILABLE, but that was all, and I am not sure if that still exists).

        Even if BT was allowed to use it, the calling party number may not be useful to the called party. It might not be a valid, callable, number -- it might not even be a sequence of digits. It's main use is for reconciliation in case of inter-carrier billing queries or fault handling.

  14. This post has been deleted by its author

  15. Nathan 13

    100% sucessful solution

    Just screen all calls, family/friends/genuine callers will speak after the tone, all sales calls will hang up before the greeting is finished.

    Although sometimes I like to pick up the phone and have some fun :)

  16. ted frater

    I pick up the ringing phone, if its a live caller and a sales droid, i start to bark!!.

    then in a high pitched voice tell my doggie to stop picking up the phone and answering it.

    More barking! then in the high pitchedvoice I have a long conversation with my dog with him answering as tho he understands.

    great fun.

  17. pacmantoo

    the simple solution

    my simple solution: sorry if already discussed: unless you know the caller (needs caller display on the line & a handset with a display) just leave it to the answer phone. The diallers recognise it's an answerphone &just call off. TPS helps but doesn't stop the cheats working their way through the phone book or international calls. Our other trick: the BT phone book entry is in the wife's name - different my surname - so when they ask for Mr X I honestly say 'No one here with that name' That shuts them up!

  18. RonWheeler
    Flame

    Double nightmare here

    The wife is German and gets a lot of landline calls from there. We would have bought a programmable call blocker-device ages ago to use on our Virgin line, but can't risk blocking international calls. And we're getting about 5 of these cals a day now even though on TPS.

    I don't buy the whole 'at least they're working' argument. They're unsolicited call making scum, just as bad as the IT-sales cold-calling scum who phone me at work.

  19. graeme leggett Silver badge

    Another way to spot the foreign call centre

    They can't pronounce my name correctly. "gruh-ay-me" and "ledge-it" are probably the commonest variations.

  20. Spiny_Norman
    Go

    Easy solution. Use TPS - it's free and will stop the 'legit' telesales dross. Second layer of defence is *all* incoming calls go to an answerphone (unless we are expecting a call within a few minutes). It's surprising how many calls terminate as soon as the message cuts it. Legitimate calls either quote the password (Hello it's me...) or leave a message and once I've heard "Hi it's x from whatever" as if by magic we answer the call. It's worked really well for us for over 20 years.

  21. Ray Merrall
    Megaphone

    Nuisance Phone Calls

    As I understand it,the BT phones will block certain calls, international, no access to phone number etc. and up to 10 pest call numbers.

    Sorry, doesn't make the grade even at half the price of Truecall.

    Ok, I am biased to Truecall, but then I have had one one working for over a year and I have the data results to prove it already works one heck of a lot better than BT's guilt attempt.

    When first fitted the Truecall unit was blocking over 10 nuisance calls per day, it is now down to around 2 per day. (Don't tell me that the spammers don't keep live lists of active numbers to annoy.)

    The unit now has nearly 100 supposed UK phone numbers blocked with over 30 with access, Just checked up to 1000 numbers can be kept. You can check on the phone numbers, just in case, every week or so, check on unknown numbers easily to confirm spam or not, (Zap or Star for future calls) take voice mail, record calls in and out (so long as it is for your own use (as in your evidence in a legal dispute) you do not have to inform the other end), and lastly, block all calls at night unless the caller has a code or is recognised.

    And as to £69 for a second phone, Truecall has all the line phones in the house covered included in the price.

    As for mobile phones, there are a number of call blockers with similar to Truecall tools available for android (can't say about IOS, but suspect similar) which work brilliantly, while Skype, (yep, have had a couple of spammers calling) can block calls as well.

    Now why doesn't BT and the politicians do something about this problem? Heaven forfend that money should be involved. But, I suspect that whoever owns the lines gets paid for what goes though them some how and with the number of junk calls going through the lines, some one is making a lot of money out of allowing their own customers to get very annoyed.

    PS: Recently, had to take the unit off line to be able to allow a lot of calls through for family reasons, and I have had fun with the spammers by telling them were calling a crime scene and I wanted their names, company names and addresses to allow a police officer to visit and confirm their innocence or otherwise in calling. Most just quietly put the phone down while a couple gave all, plus some that I couldn't resist asking for, information requested. Er! I may have implied that I was a Police officer, but I didn't say I was, in case anyone is worried and since they were already breaking the "law" by calling a TPS number, I felt no guilt in returning the favour of their call.

  22. David Hickson (Silent Calls Victim)

    Comment from the fair telecoms campaign

    See comment from the fair telecoms campaign.

    New BT Phone - not the answer to nuisance calls - http://tiny.cc/ftmr_bt6500.

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