back to article GNOME project picks JavaScript as sole app dev language

The GNOME project, developers of the GNOME desktop for Linux, has decided JavaScript will be the only “first class” language it will recommend for developers cooking up new apps for the platform. Developer Travis Reitter, who does some work on GNOME, has posted his account of a discussion at last weekend's GNOME Developer …

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FAIL

I'll stick to my Microsoft stack ...

I write business apps on the Microsoft technology stack (windows / .Net) and never worked / even heard of a business that has no Microsoft presence in it at some level.

This stuff just works and always has a tool for my next technical problem ready to help me which is why I use it.

Someone else had a point before ... build an API / Framework / Both and let the developer choose.

Do I fuss over pointers or every last CPU cycle ... no!

Do my apps work and deliver what the business needs in a timely fashion ... yes!

Do I really care what language the CPU speaks "at a ones and zero's level" ... no!

Do I have to regularly tell management "go fuck yourself" ... no!

Do I ever have to say "this is just plain stupid or cannot be done" ... no!

... and yet the linux app domain and everything that sits on it is still facing this common problem daily.

It's a case of "every tool has a job it was built for", you wouldn't hammer a nail with a bucket would you?

It's down to the developer to choose the tool that fits the job, most developers are therefore fluent in more than 1 language and any developer that tells you they only code in a single language is clearly either full of it or inexperienced.

In my experience:

When dealing with people that code for Linux / something that sits on it I am met with a very opinionated person, talented i'll admit but often too opinionated for me to want to deal with all the time (i'm not saying that's always the case just people i've met tend to be of this nature).

This reminds me of the crap Microsoft had to put up with when it launched .net with comments like ...

"JIT's just slow things down"

"C# is never going to be as fast as C++"

Since all that Microsoft consolidated .Net making it useful to solve almost any problem it's development community has so it's been a solid success and resulted in things like the Mono project.

That's what the gnome team need to focus on ... building something that solves any problem that it's developer base will have, if they don't solve that they are going to have to deal with angry developers constantly.

From what i've seen (not that I really follow gnome) they seem to consistently stick themselves in the line of fire over daft technical decisions, why don't they just stick to building a framework with a strong API and let the developer talk about languages instead of this constant "what can we do to piss off our developers this week" attitude?

I feel for you guys writing code for gnome but I only have 1 piece of advice ...

Move on if you don't like it, it's clear the solution aint coming fast enough and the guys over canonical seem to be doing ok.

Failing that ... there's always the Microsoft stack (much cleaner and hassle free in my opinion).

... and in true "Linux guy" fashion let the trolling begin ...

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Boffin

Re: I'll stick to my Microsoft stack ...

The "Microsoft stack" is mostly the Linux and/or Java stack, but just bastardized into going the Microsoft way:

Active Directory is LDAP as imagined by Microsoft: weird binary objects needed to change ACLs, non-standard password management/storage, non-standard hashes, forced RDN standards on objectclasses. Oh, and once you create an AttributeType or ObjectClass, you can't never, ever delete it!

.NET is the Java/JVM part, with byteco... um... "MSIL". They added more than one language to compile to this, though.

C# is pirated Java, except a lot of the classpath is actually a wrapper over the Win32 library. (This isn't bad, actually! But it sucks for portability outside Win32). MS didn't have the balls to kill their stupid language (VB) so instead they hacked it into having something "similar" to C# and called it "VB.net".

WebServices using weird stuff that can't be read by other platforms that arent .NET. I regularly had to build shell WebServices on Java just to get a WSDL that could be implemented in .NET and not make everyone else barf at it.

The Microsoft stack is OK as long as you have everything 100% MS.

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FAIL

Re: The Microsoft stack is OK as long as you have everything 100% MS.

Here is a better way to express that sentiment:

The Microsoft stack is OK as long as you don't mind being chained to the deck of the M$ Titanic, and you will gladly accept the consequences when (not IF) that ship sinks!!!

As my case in point, just refer to all of those poor bastards who chained themselves to IE6 and Active-X.

Fucked, aren't they????

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Anonymous Coward

Re: I'll stick to my Microsoft stack ...

C Sharpe .Net is a great language the problem is it just cost a lot of money. A person can go from writing a Windows Form app to a Web app very quickly. The API for crating TextBoxes and other Windows GUI components is similar to creating Web Forms.

Compare this with Java, Swing is vastly different from JSP. Furthermore even when using Swing it is very hard to create a great looking desktop application. The reason being Sun going down the AWT widget route.

Similarly SWT is not a perfect solution since the built application will look and behave slightly differently on each platforms. This could lead to problems which leaves an intelligent developer to make use of the QT framework.

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M$ Titanic?

Yeah I've probably only got 20 more years of milking that cow. At which point, I can simply switch to whatever has replaced it. Or retire on the $$$ I've made from M$.

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Trollface

Re: M$ Titanic?

>Yeah I've probably only got 20 more years of milking that cow. At which point, I can simply switch to whatever has replaced it. Or retire on the $$$ I've made from M$.

Wow thoughts of a 55 year old sad old parochial bastard Wally type praying to make it retirement before being replaced come to mind. In general if your skills only cover development on one platform no matter how big and dominant that platform is today (see Mainframe devs in mid 80s) you have f__ked up along the way.

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Pint

Could have been worse

I wonder how many votes PHP got?

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Devil

Javascript

Oh holy mother of god.

Cue rampaging hordes of hipsters coding entire apps exclusively in λ-functions.

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sigh. Nostalgia for K & R

'Look Dennis, we've got this PDP thing and its not hugely powerful, what do we want to do with it?'

'Brian: we ant to be able to program it quickly and efficiently. Both of us, at the same time'

'OK let's write a language that can do it and a microkernel that let's us'

And so Unix and C were born.

Ever since then computer scientists and geeks with celebrity envy have been claiming that they can in fact do better.

No one really ever has.

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Devil

Re: sigh. Nostalgia for K & R

warning: comparison between pointer and integer - line 10

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Anonymous Coward

Re: sigh. Nostalgia for K & R

warning: comparison between pointer and integer - line 10

What true K&R C compiler would even think to give you such a warning? (Hint: none.) In K&R C-land, such things were not only legal, there were in fact encouraged.

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Re: sigh. Nostalgia for K & R

"were in fact encouraged."

Still are. In the right hands, such shenanigans are powerful tools.

Unfortunately, you don't need to be licensed to use powerful tools. K&R C isn't inherently a bad language. It's the numpties using it that give it a bad name. Kinda like Subaru drivers here in California.

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Vic
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Does any of this matter?

The GNOME devs seem to have ignored the fact that the whole project is circling the drain anyway...

How many coders have we got here? Could we maintain a Gnome2 fork between us?

Something's got to be done before the GNOME project suddenly realises that Intercal is the Way of the Future(tm)...

Vic.

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Facepalm

Since lots of decent languages are available to code for Gnome, lets make the really shitty one official.

Must be because those sparse arrays are so compelling.

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What is the problem?

Why is everyone complaining, now we have more time to get coffee while our apps load.

Honestly, I'm hoping they do a last second quick switch from .js to Excel (I have stairs...things take time).

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Re: What is the problem?

Screw the stairs.. follow the Coffee HOW-TO and you can have a non-javascript controlled coffee machine hanging off the printer port.

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Thumb Up

Re: What is the problem?

"... you can have a non-javascript controlled coffee machine..."

True, but then I'm left with a lot of time to "do stuff".

I prefer a nice slow brew, I prefer Gnome with JavaScript. Ahhhhh, aged to perfection... aged for me!

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Next news story for Gnome

Gnome becomes most insecure OS...

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