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back to article My top tip for Microsoft: Stop charging for Windows Phone 8

While Microsoft posted solid numbers for Windows 8, anyone paying attention to Intel's quarterly report can see that the writing is on the wall for desktop computing. Perhaps surprisingly, this is also true of the enterprise, generally not an early mover on technology trends. According to a new Appcelerator survey of enterprise …

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Re: Isn't that cute...BUT IT'S WRONG!

Agreed - and MS should not be encouraged to use the fat wedge that they have extorted via their monopoly positions in other markets to gain anything like a monopoly position in the mobile market.

Yes Google have spent quite a lot developing Android but Android is Open Source and a huge chunk of the work was already done in the form of the Linux kernel and other Open Source inputs. And yes Google are monopolistic in their own way but that is their search+ad+data slurp model, not mobile OS lock-in.

An attempt by MS to gain significant mobile market share by using WinPho8 as a loss-leader initially can only be on the premise of future monopoly per-device license fees in the future as that is almost the only significant business model they have. That would not be a good future for any of us apart from possibly MS (if they could make that succeed, which is questionable).

MS's failure to date is not that their mobile OS is too expensive, it's that it is not sufficiently superior to (or even as good as, some of us may argue...) the competition to justify the premium they need to charge to cover the cost of development and turn a profit.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Isn't that cute...BUT IT'S WRONG!

Google has a lock-in effect by deliberately hampering access to its services from Windows Phone, by not making their apps available on other devices other than iOS and Android.

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Re: Isn't that cute...BUT IT'S WRONG!

> deliberately hampering access to its services from Windows Phone, by not making their apps available on other devices other than iOS and Android.

It was Microsoft that recently, in the Novell-MS appeal, claimed that it had no requirement to assist its competitors.

In any case MS controls the app store and has already said that no alternate browsers will be allowed, so a Metro Chrome would not be accepted by MS. What Google apps do you think MS would accept ?

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Re: Isn't that cute...BUT IT'S WRONG!

Surely the main reason for MS to play in this sector is as a defensive play to prevent IOS and Android creating a diverse ecosystem which might bring *nix into the enterprise.

Permanent loss-leading to help OEMs in that area is reasonable to protect the lucrative desktop sector.

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Re: Isn't that cute...BUT IT'S WRONG!

@AC 18:44: it may have escaped your notice but Google actually only create a few apps for Android, the overwhelming majority are 3rd party creations. Should Google compel every developer who understandably wants to create apps for Android also make a version WinPho? Oh yeah...that's gonna happen!

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Re: There are no top tips for Windows Phone - it's a failed product, like Zune.

How can you sell a device that is

f) it's a closed system (closed app store)

g) it's not an open source system

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Ask Apple regarding these two points. I believe their closed source sysetem + app store managed to shift 47 million mobile phones last quarter alone.

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The criticism about a lack of apps is unfair too. There are more than enough of the most popular apps in the Windows Phone store. Yeah sure it doesn't have anywhere near as many as iOS or Android, but a lot of the apps in there mirror functionality or aren't worth installing anyway. All the important ones that would appeal to users are there in the Windows App store though like Facebook, Twitter, Instragram, Angry Birds, Spotify.

Of course though some people will deny that, but then you can't have a reasoned argument with some people on here when it comes to OS wars on phones. When articles are ran showing iOS has more apps than Android you get Android fans saying 'yeah but the majority of them are useless fart apps', but when it's Microsoft and their app store has fewer than Android suddenly the fart apps go out the window and it's suddenly important to have a massive amount of apps in the store......

I have a google nexus 4 by the way, so I'm not pro microsoft or anything like that I just like to see healthy competition which can only improve all platforms in the long run

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Horses for courses

If all you are interested in doing is a mindless 'tweet' or viewing some porn then a mobile is fine. If you are looking at doing some serious work then you need a decent screen, decent keyboard and decent applications. The desk top (/laptop) is far from dead.

The idea of giving something away is not plausible, no such thing as a free lunch and everyone has bills to pay. I don't know what the going rate for a licence for MS mobile stuff is, and I don't know how much they give in the way of back handers and support, but they will want to make money out of it at some point.

Way back there was talk of making money from 'mobile services' but to be honest I don't see that is likely to ever really happen, if a service is popular then someone is going to undercut or replace it with an application... so the model is basically flawed.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Horses for courses

Ugly? Android is ugly my friend. Using Windows Phone is like browsing a nice slick magazine. You've obviously never used it.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: A slick magazine

Are some of your pages stuck together?

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Re: Horses for courses

Like browsing a nice, slick magazine?

You may be right, I haven't browsed a nice, slick magazine in years, because they're all are overpriced, lack content, and are always outdated by the time they're on the shelves.

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FAIL

Windows 8 PC - only $1, few takers

In Ho Chi Minh City copy shops sell CDs and DVDs of copy software for USD$1/each.

I was buying software a week or so ago and I asked how many Win 8 they had sold and the assistant said, with a wry smile, none!

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Windows 8 PC - only $1, few takers

Ah, well in that case, an unverifiable anecdote from a poster with anti-MS post history has persuaded me that I should uninstall Windows 8 as there is obviously no point in evaluating it for myself.

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Anonymous Coward

My top tip for Microsoft.

Make Windows Phone into something that consumers ACTUALLY want (rather than trying to brainwash them with gimmicks like the 920 Pureview).

My top tip for Nokia.

Ditch Elop and make Android, it's the only way to survive.

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FAIL

Re: My top tip for Microsoft.

Yes, because the world needs yet another Android manufacturer. Samsung is the only one making a comfortable profit selling Android

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Anonymous Coward

Re: My top tip for Microsoft.

According to some random website...

Plenty of manufacturers are making profit from Android. Sony, ZTE, Asus, LG to name a few. They wouldn't be doing it if they weren't.

And as to why nobody wants Windows 8:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=WTYet-qf1jo#!

It's a bit long, but sums up comprehensively why Windows 8 fails on so many levels.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: My top tip for Microsoft.

@Eadon - Cite sources.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: My top tip for Microsoft.

Pureview isn't a gimmick, it is worth three stops in low light. If you are a photographer you'll know what three f-stops are worth.

They are going to do a new 808 type device this year built around Windows Phone, which will be even better still.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: My top tip for Microsoft.

Eadon, you're obviously a student or unemployed. In the real world nobody really uses Linux and open source on corporate desktops. In all my years as a software developer I've never seen a Linux machine used in an office other than for a server OS.

I've developed on Solaris and Windows but never Linux.

Windows is on 90+% of corporate desktops and Windows servers are everywhere.

Linux is massive in embedded, but that is stuck inside little boxes where you don't "see" the software as such. It just serves DHTML.

I've done the whole "Windows" rebellion thing and run Linux for a few years. But it has no decent tools for music production and just generally shitty quality software. Ask anyone for help and you get the usual line of "It is open source, fix it yourself".

Grow up and realise that Linux isn't a success on the desktop and it is only because of Google sticking their name on it and giving the software away that Android is a success.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: My top tip for Microsoft.

Eadon - can you tell me how "come back when you know what you are talking about" is any more or less personal abuse than "grow up".

And cite sources means that you cite them not waffle about well I said it - you can't cite yourself, especially if you've not cited the things your citing.

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Black Helicopters

Re: My top tip for Microsoft.

It is a bit odd that most of your haters are anonymous.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: My top tip for Microsoft.

Windows phone 7 doubled Microsoft mobile market sales.

Windows 8 has sold as well as Windows 7 did - and that's pretty impressive when you remember that Windows 7 replaced Vista...

Windows Phone 8 has quadrupled Microsoft's Windows phone sales...

Personally speaking I normally only attack your stupid and invented claims which never have any supporting references... However I'm happy to make an exception:

More technical - lol - that's very funny having seen many of your claims that show a complete absence of any understanding of the subject matter - or of reality. You mean like 2nd Technician Arnold Rimmer technical I think....Bottom of the pile and going nowhere...

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Re: My top tip for Microsoft.

Re: My top tip for Microsoft.

"n the real world nobody really uses Linux and open source on corporate desktops"

Absolute rubbish - I was in a group of 200 who had high powered Linux workstations years ago( 8+) , academics, CGI groups and engineers all use it. It may well be a small percentage but it's a very high-powered influential percentage. In my own area software tends to be ONLY written for Unix, Linux and maybe Macs

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Anonymous Coward

Re: My top tip for Microsoft.

Eadon: "I am more technical than 99.9% of posters here"

If that's the case, then it is unfortunately tempered by you being more of an arse than 90% of the posters here.

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Re: My top tip for Microsoft.

@Eadon: "many millions of users take the trouble to install it"

See, if you could just grasp the concept that there are hundreds of *billions* of PCs out there, you might start to grasp the concept that a few million users is barely a blip on the radar. You perception of the world is so far off the mark, it's laughable.

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Meh

Re: My top tip for Microsoft.

"I've developed on Solaris and Windows but never Linux."

Hardly a catalogue of success, are you?

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Re: My top tip for Microsoft.

"if you could just grasp the concept that there are hundreds of *billions* of PCs"

So several dozen for each person on the planet then.

hint : population of planet ~7 billion

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Re: My top tip for Microsoft.

I AM the source

Everything I have predicted on this site and others has come to pass. I predicted that win pho 7 would fail. It did. I predicted that Win 8 would fail. It did. I predicted Win Pho 8 would fail. It did. I predicted Surface ... well you get the idea.

And now, Eadon would like you to drink this Kool-Aid.

He really just keeps getting better and better, doesn't he? "I AM the source" indeed! For some reason I am reminded of Box from Logan's Run: "Fish, and plankton, and sea greens and protein from the sea! Am I not magnificent?".

Yes, Eadon, yes you are magnificent. Though when the echoes die down, you may find your audience has quietly slipped out the back.

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Re: My top tip for Microsoft.

I am more technical than 99.9% of posters here

Now the light dawns - Eadon is a chatbot, and thus indeed "more technical" than us fleshy types.

("Protein from the sea!")

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WTF?

MSFT posted *what* about W8...?

"While Microsoft posted solid numbers for Windows 8,"

You mean that 60M number that their CFO/CMO (yes, it sound like a joke but I'm NOT joking, she is also the Chief Marketing Officer while holding the CFO title - so much for credibility!) trotted out as "sales", subsequently admitting it's nothing but the number of licenses they've sold to manufacturers, it has nothing to do with actual adoption?

Matt, please, stop eating the dogfood press junk MSFT offers up and do at least basic due diligence.

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Anonymous Coward

Can someone explain to me...

... How my guys with four screens and 20 different apps open at the same time will translate this to a tablet?

Is there some kind of JuggleQuicktime<sup>TM</sup> manoeuvre that will be invented?

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Unhappy

Re: Can someone explain to me...

I feel inferior now :( 3 screens and a dozen apps now seems just soooo pedestrian - wahhhhh

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Gimp

You left out...

Your first chart is 33.2 percentage points shy of 100. Given that the question was "which of these 5 is showing mobile leadership", and that BYOD started because of iPad & iPhone, I'd guess the #1 answer was pretty much "none of these 5" for whatever reason

The report also showed ~80% were "very interested" in developing for iPhone & iPad. Android devices did place second, at 64% for phones and 52% for tablet, but being the first to mass-market mobile devices and flood into IT, Apple remains at the top of the heap, at least for 2013 (according to this survey).

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Re: You left out...

"being the first to mass-market mobile devices and flood into IT, Apple"

First to mass market? 2007 was late. And if you mean first to sell more than a certain amount, check out the history of smartphone sales - iphone was never number one (before Android, it was Symbian), and indeed didn't sell much until 2010-2011 anyway.

I don't know why companies are so keen to cater only for the minority of Apple users, when it's never been the number one platform; for consumers this ignorance of the state of the market is damaging (Android reaches 75%, and still we have every other advert advertising about get-it-on-your-iphone, or ads for fisherman with ipads who watch Sky).

(And I suspect that first for BOYD is yet another mythical first.)

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Re: You left out...

Do be quiet Mark. Some facts. Android was first for absolutely zip. Nada. Rien. NOTHING. While Android the kernel may have reached 75% saturation, the fragmentation headache for us devs is still very real. The abuse one gets for producing for iOS only just beats the abuse for daring to charge for an app. Piracy and malware is rife too. You are an absolutely ridiculous fanboy.

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Windows Phone 8 is free (beer) already... just about

Due to platform support payments from MS to Nokia, WP licenses for Nokia phones are effectively paid for by Microsoft. I'm not sure how that will change as the number of phones sold by Nokia goes up or down, but as Nokia produces the vast majority of WP phones, the average Windows phone has a free OS.

Once the tablet sales breakdown - Surface vs. the others - becomes available it will be possible to determine whether the average Windows RT tablet also has a free OS (i.e. MS hardware effectively has a free OS, even if it is paid for by internal funny money).

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Facepalm

"Cheaper than free."

Look I've said it before and I'll say it again, slowly this time.

iOS. Is. Not. Free.

We have no idea what the cost per unit of iOS is, as it's only sold bundled with an expensive Apple device and they're not saying how that price breaks down into hardware, software, third-party licenses, etc.

Put it this way. If WinPho 8 were only available on phones made by MS and those phones cost what the current crop of Nokia, Samsung, etc devices do with no seperate software charge on the bill when you bought one, would that mean it was suddenly "free"?

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Anonymous Coward

Desktops Not Finished

The guys posting desktop computing is finished clearly don't know what there talking about.

Can you imagine a call center employee using a tablet to record a conversation with a customer.

Businesses still require desktop computers. A laptop can be a replacement but most companies prefer locked down desktop computers. A desktop is less likely to be stolen because of its size. The chance of it falling on the floor and breaking is very small. Furthermore if they do break repairing them is easy since the parts are easily interchangeable. Whereas if a laptop screen breaks you have to find the exact model screen to repair it.

It will be difficult for Microsoft to charge for its mobile OS since Android is quite good. What Microsoft needs to do is leverage its installed base of corporate software. E.g. Exchange server and Office communicator. Many organizations ban employees from using Skype and Yahoo Messenger and encourage employees to use Office communicator for security reasons.

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Mushroom

Re: Desktops Not Finished

You can already do this with a tablet running Microsoft Lync and record the conversation (and use a Bluetooth Headset if you wanted)

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Go

I'll just pile in to agree....

That unless you are running very graphics-intensive sofware or maybe hardcore statistical analysis, then your 4-5 year old corporate desktop/laptop will be just fine for running enterprise apps (namely, office productivity).

Mobile apps? Eh, good idea, but your average mobile device UI really does limit serious productivity.

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FAIL

The writing is on the wall for Matt Assay

For the rest of us it is on our monitors. Desktop monitors.

Nothing to see here... Move along...

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Anonymous Coward

Given the investment in VDI/Citrix/Remote desktop infrastructure where I work, it's radically changed the speed of the desktop migration project, as existing hardware can be sweated longer to reduce the costs of platform upgrades.

Only management use Good Technology to check email, and secure browse on BYO devices, real workers still use BBs and desktops.

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Anonymous Coward

No one pays for a mobile OS?

"For years Google has subsidized Android adoption, paying handset vendors and others to deploy the OS .. It's cute and quaint that Microsoft is still trying to sell a mobile OS in a market where no one pays for a mobile OS. It's also stupid".

Aren't a lot of hardware manufacturers paying Microsoft for putting Android on their own hardware, so technically speaking Google is subsidising Microsoft.

"Microsoft’s anti-Android, cross-licensing strategy"

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no more license fee for WP8

Microsoft..... you really should think about it. I think it's a good idea. Anything that can help get a larger install base for Windows Phone 8, and thereby increase the likelihood that developers will write apps for it is a good idea.

I am running Windows Phone 7.5 right now. I bought it to help increase the WP share and I was irritated with crashes I was having on Froyo (at the time I was on Virgin Mobile). I have found Windows Phone to MUCH MORE STABLE and I really like it. However there’s a number of programs that are either not on WP, or are not as capable on WP. The Best Buy app for example, under android you can actually use it to buy items, under WP not. Another example, there is no official WP version of Red Box.

MS, you need a larger install base. Take one for the team, either reduce or remove your license fee. Give OEM’s more of an incentive and I would hope the reduction in cost would be also shared with the end user…..

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