Microsoft to end Windows 8 discounts on January 31
Say what you will about Windows 8; at least the upgrade from Windows 7 is cheap. Or it is for now. After January 31 will be a different story. Ever since Windows 8's October 26, 2012 launch, Microsoft has been offering retail Windows 8 Pro upgrade DVDs for $69.99. Online upgrades have been even cheaper, at $39.99. And customers …
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Re: Upgrade to a more useful, sexier, *real* operating system. Linux
@IHateWearingATie - games are an incentive to use Windows - true, but for how much longer? Kickstarter is seen Linux consoles receiving a lot of funding - there is a demand.
Also Valve are pushing Linux games hard, with a Steam port and ports of games. There are rumours of other companies looking at Linux for games too. They are concerned about the Microsoft Windows 8 App Store - they do not like that at all. They are looking for alternatives and Linux is on their radar.
Games should run faster on Linux - so once some serious gamers move to Linux - then they will have an advantage.
Also Linux and Apple both use OpenGL - so games can be easily portable across Android, Linux and Mac. Windows with its proprietary DirectX starts to look a bit like the odd one out.
As windows market share continues to erode, games publishers will explore new markets.
Re: Upgrade to a more useful, sexier, *real* operating system. Linux
Damn, Eadon you beat me to it.
Yes Steam is the answer, and it's not vapourware it's here.
Unfortunately only on Ubuntu at the moment AFAIK.
And I'm not sure whether that includes Xubuntu, Kubuntu as well, 'cos if it doesn't then Valve might have picked the wrong distro given the momentum Mint has just now.
Re: Upgrade to a more useful, sexier, *real* operating system. Linux
"but everyone who believes that it will come without major issues will be disappointed."
I have used SUSE & OpenSUSE since the late 90's - I've NEVER had major issues.
I currently run OpenSUSE 11.4 on my low-powered, file/print/odds&sods dual core ATOM server, laptop, netbook and dual-core Intel at our holiday home. I run 12.2 on my two work stations ( AMD single & dual cores.) I've almost always used KDE.
I have no problems with graphics including hardware accelerated 1080p/50 video, 3G dongles, serial/USB converters, scanner/printer & printer. I can process RAW DSLR files at 16bits/colour, video edit 1080p/50 video and heaps more. I use SSH to my file server for proxy access to iPlayer, etc whilst I'm away. Skype, GoogleEarth all fine.
I do use Libre Office which I find sufficient for my needs - big spreadsheets are slower than Excel but otherwise....
On the other hand I've got a great selection of programming languages , of which I regularly use C and tcl/tk & shell scripts.
I don't recognize this picture you paint
Re: Upgrade to a more useful, sexier, *real* operating system. Linux
@nematoad - rest assured, you can bet folding money that geeks will port Steam to, and package it for, other distros ASAP, :-)
Valve are also working on a Linux console apparently - Steam Box.
@IHateWearingATie - Re: Upgrade to a more useful, sexier, *real* operating system. Linux
Wrote :-
"Show me battlefield 3 and world of tanks on Linux and I'll move. Until then, Linux has no place on my main desktop."
Simple, do what lots of us do, dual boot : Windows for playing tanks and Linux for browsing p0rn I mean everything else - it's bulletproof.
Re: Upgrade to a more useful, sexier, *real* operating system. Linux
@davidoff
"Yes, and GNOME sucks. It's the worst user interface ever"
Gnome 3 sucks, you mean, and I agree with you (though it does have some fans). The beauty of Linux is, just use Linux Mint with Gnome 2 based UI's, or if you're already using Linux then just use a different Windows manager.
"Right. Unfortunately these are not the only costs that come with a platform choice. And in many cases it's simply more economical to pay for Windows than to use free Linux."
- yes but the Windows TCO is also higher than that of Linux. (Ignoring those dodgy analyst reports MS pays for.)
"Linux got better, but still doesn't match the simple installation procedure of Windows 7 or Windows 8."
You can't get easier or faster than a Linux Mint install. And having recently installed Windows 7 64 bit, I can tell you that you are wrong from first hand experience.
"And there still are too many cases where an installation will just fail and needs manual intervention on the command line."
That's not true for modern popular distro's - try Linux mint.
However for windows you do have to mess about with the registry quite often to fix things, plus muck about with all kinds of troubleshooting, again talking from first hand experience.
"Out of the box, Linux comes with a kernel, period. A Linux distribution may come with LibreOffice"
Yes, ok, I should have said Linux distro. And your point is?
"even some very simple things like a OS upgrade"
An OS upgrade is never simple. For Windows or for Linux.
"BTW: Windows 7 runs just fine on old hardware, and guess what, Windows 8 runs even better."
No it does not, that's why people put Linux on old hardware. Linux distros runs on older hardware than Win 7 or Win 8.
The other points you make are either entirely subjective, obviously incorrect / wild rants. We can agree to disagree but thanks for responding :)
Re: Upgrade to a more useful, sexier, *real* operating system. Linux
Linux is fine ... but you fail on one core point in your explanation:
Quote: * Secure (secure UNIX architecture). Unquote.
Yes, it's very secure, that is true, and it's not vulnerable to Windows malware. But, it does NOT actually have a UNIX architecture. Linux is not based upon, or built upon any variation of UNIX. Linux is a UNIX clone written from the ground up to work in a very similar way to UNIX.
Re: Upgrade to a more useful, sexier, *real* operating system. Linux
Oh Eadon, please be quiet until you understand the points you are actually making.
You are not doing the Linux fans any good with your parrot-style ramblings.
Re: Upgrade to a more useful, sexier, *real* operating system. Linux
@DJGM Yep, there used to be two 'main families' of unix - SYSv and BSD.
Linux has followed it's own rules.
It's true what they say: Unix is for people that like unix. Linux is for people who hate microsoft, Some of the linux changes make some of us oldtimers cringe, for the same reasons Eadon tried to blame microsoft for in an early post
Re: Upgrade to a more useful, sexier, *real* operating system. Linux
nematoad: "Yes Steam is the answer,... "
Oh, you are making my head hurt. It's like watching blind ducks paddling for land.
A lot of people go on about "Steam for Linux" and act like they won a long hard stand off. Well, if the stand off was about highly restricted content (what can you play where again?) and redundant security risks (how many login/passwords do you need?), then congratulations, you won!
Steam, you are turning into a privacy nightmare. So why Steam, do you port yourself to many more platforms? Oh that's right, Windows did you like they did Adobe.
Wouldn't it be nice if we could just keep corporate interests off of minors on Linux/GNU desktops? Do you all of you fuckers have a price?
Re: Upgrade to a more useful, sexier, *real* operating system. Linux
Steam beta working fine here on latest Minty goodness.
Re: Upgrade to a more useful, sexier, *real* operating system. Linux
@Jamie Jones "Linux is for people who hate microsoft"
Nonsense. - I think you'll find that Linux is favoured by those that understand computing, and who want the best OS. That some of Linux users happen to dislike Microsoft is mostly correlation, not causation. Microsoft has attacked Linux on many occasions, by funding SCO, and by bad-mouthing it and insinuating it violates Microsoft's software patents (but they refuse to say which ones).
So obviously MS have alienated themselves from Linux users. Windows users are long suffering, and many of them hate Microsoft, believe me.
@MyBackDoor (re: Steam Linux)
Please do one, troll.
Having Steam running natively on Linux with at least a significant percentage of its games library being compatible with Linux can only be a good thing. You can complain all you want about privacy or DRM, etc, but the simple response to that is not to use it; no-one is forcing it down your throat at gunpoint. The fact is that there are a large number of people out there (myself included) who would quite happily switch to Linux permanently if the support for games were much better. And don't tell me to go get a console either; I don't need or want outdated hardware, thanksverymuch.
Not to mention all the work that Valve are doing with regards to performance improvement on Linux for OpenGL and drivers... Just sayin'...
My only gripe with it is that Steam Linux is currently x86 only, and I suspect that won't change any time soon.
Re: @MyBackDoor (re: Steam Linux)
"...happily switch to Linux permanently..." So, you are unhappily using an OS "temporarily"?
Can't lie, video games are fun. The more commercial "options" you praise for running on Linux, the more you welcome proprietary drivers and possible kernel mods. Kernel panic! Contact... Nvidia?
It really is all fun and games, until commercial vendors get what they want and walk away, leaving the place locked up. Depending on the kids and younger generations to ignore historical business patterns, is something that a lot of commercial software corporations have been counting on, and they have a solid count!
will be interesting
to see how steam being available.for.linux affects this. The rest of the games I play playonlinux does a great job!
I think they have figure that anyone that wanted to actually upgrade to Windows 8 probably had done so already and so they might as well crank the price up as sales had probably started to plateau anyway.
Win 9 is so bad ...
that the software copy shops in Ho Chi Minh City haven't sold ANY ... and it's only Dong30,000 - about USD$1.50 - a copy.
How embarrassing can that be?
Drat
Just as I was about to convert too, having been persuaded by all that marketing spend.
Apple OEM version?
The article compares cheap Apple's OS X with the retail price. Shouldn't it compare to the OEM/system builder price?
Wanna hear something amazing.
I actually found 2 windows 8 features I like:
The new copy dialogue. (It's actually usefull)
And the fact they finally built in mounting of iso's into the system.
(the rest is crap)
Hate:
Start menu with all the dumped files on the start screen.
Rdp'ing to it was dog slow.
Touch points..... Really!
Then it's just windows 7 (as long as you know short cuts, and can work out the changes where they have moved stuff, download a start menu replacement and ignore the front screen)
I love the comment about getting rid of aero because it was distracting. And then give your that stupid metro interface with live tiles (which will become malware/live adverts before you know it) which is REALLY distracting.
I also love the other comment: after you get used to it, it's intuitive! Lol where you you start on that. My 2 kids 1.5+3 use iPads etc and just got them. Adults get windows 8 and struggle.
I for 1 won't be buying it, ESP for the new prices. I think this is a very bad move for them. I bet apple/android markets are rubbing their hands in glee.
Modern island life or a tale of simple countryfolk
I live on a small island, population ~ 450.
The local PC builder guy gives you the choice of installing Linux for £60* less than with Windows on new builds.
It works out cheaper to have a locally built machine than having to send a broken one away to be fixed.
(They tend to get smashed on the way back and it becomes an endless task)
Consequently most people here are running LInux. I only know of one Mac user and he got pwned not long ago!
(300 miles to get a Mac mended!)
I've seen a few ipads around, mostly for children. A neighbour just got one and promptly regretted it, her actual words were "It's crap!".
Personally, I run Kubuntu 12.04 with XP in a VM. I won't be buying any more Microsoft products.
Anon to stop Google et al. tracking me down.
*The last time I asked him, about six months ago.
Re: Modern island life or a tale of simple countryfolk
Wrote :- "I live on a small island .... The local PC builder guy gives you the choice of installing Linux for £60* less than with Windows on new builds. It works out cheaper to have a locally built machine than having to send a broken one away to be fixed."
I'm curious - why can't the local builder repair the broken one? Not un-repairable throwaway Apple crap hardware of course, but ones built with a bit of sanity.
Re: Modern island life or a tale of simple countryfolk
"I'm curious - why can't the local builder repair the broken one? Not un-repairable throwaway Apple crap hardware of course, but ones built with a bit of sanity."
Because if you buy a Dell, say, you have to send it away to the approved repairers or whoever is stated in the guarantee. .
Re: Modern island life or a tale of simple countryfolk
"oh no, can't repair this. Has to be couriered to Dell. I'll build you a new one. I'll even dispose of the old one for you in an environmentally friendly way."
*puts everything into new case
*replaces motherboard
*scrapes hdd for possibly interesting media
*installs ubuntu
"Here you go sir, I've built you a brand new computer!"
Re: Modern island life or a tale of simple countryfolk
""oh no, can't repair this. Has to be couriered to Dell. I'll build you a new one. I'll even dispose of the old one for you in an environmentally friendly way.""
You don't really understand life in a remote community, do you. Get caught at this sort of thing and you'd end up inside a wicker man with someone with a lit torch about to reprimand you.
Re Upgrade pricing for the UK, Europe, and other regions was not available as The Reg went to press.
£1 = $1. Sorted.
...
Thieving b**tards. It'd probably be more if the EU fined them again.
And "customers who bought new PCs or laptops with Windows 7 preloaded got the best deal of all"
Yes, because with their deal they got Win 7 and not 8.
Re: And "customers who bought new PCs or laptops with Windows 7 preloaded got the best deal of all"
That's why, when I bought my new laptop a couple of weeks before Christmas, I deliberately chose the "older" model that still came pre-installed with Win7, rather than the latest model with Win 8. As an added bonus, it was reduced by £150 because it was 'end-of-line'... :o)
I do not intend to upgrade to Win 8, despite the £15 upgrade offer, since it doesn't have a touchscreen (where, incidentally, I see the whole Win 8 thing is moving towards).
My theory is that MS are using Win 8 to get users to become accustomed to the 'tiles' metaphor, and keep the 'old-style' desktop for legacy apps. In Win 9, we will probably see the latter disappear in favour of a windowed, VM-like desktop, so that legacy applications can still be run, in a similar way that Windows 95 removed the necessity to run Windows on top of DOS, but still providing a DOS-like CLI in a window.
Perhaps...
...Microsoft should give up trying to make Windows all things to all people, and ending up with what it more and more reflecting in the UI the horrible kludge that the underlying code always has been, and instead market two distinct versions: one for those who want computing as an appliance---those who have no interest in what goes on under the hood; and another for folks who like to tinker or who actually need to get serious work done and so be in control of the stuff they use to get that work done.
Re: Perhaps...
@Adair
I mostly agree with your post, if I may nit-pick,
"Microsoft should give up trying to make Windows all things to all people"
- I don't think that it is with Win 8. MS is foisting a Tablet / Mobile UI (Metro) on desktop users in the hope of making that Metro UI popular with users through familiarity. Also it is trying to force people to use Metro Apps so it can profit from its new Microsoft metro App Store or whatever it is called. This is giving developers nightmares by the way :)
I would upgrade but...
The upgrade assistant tells me there are problems. USB3 won't work, my Bluetooth stack won't work, and I have 5 Microsoft tools that won't work and have no updates. This on a 2012 notebook.
Why do I suspect the problems will all suddenly be fixed after 31st Jan 2013?
Re: I would upgrade but...
I think the upgrade assistant is confused.
Your USB3 will work but not with whatever drivers/tools you have installed now, Windows 8 has native USB3 so will provide its own drivers.
If you have a bluetooth stack I'm guessing your laptop is Toshiba if that's the case you'll find the Windows 7 one works fine but you'll probably need to uninstall it and then reinstall after the upgrade. Your MS tools will also be fine. I haven't found anything that runs under 7 that won't run under 8. Also there is compatibility mode for really troublesome apps.
Of course the best thing to do is not to actually upgrade but run a clean install.
whatever
Sorry to sound like Eadon but you would have to be f***ing mad to buy Windows 8.
Come on, this is the 21st. century. You don't need this shit.
Upgrade
I won't be upgrading Windows 7 to Windows 8 at all.
I will wait and see what Windows 9 will be like.
Thats if Microsoft has seen the errors of it's ways and separate the Windows interface and TIFKAM into separate OSes.
It occurs to me…
Windows has for a long time lived off their market share. A lot of people use windows because they always have: that's what they learnt in school/used at work. Try to redesign windows and suddenly these users can't make the easy transition. Why, when your business is largely built on historical market share, would you give users that otherwise don't really care reason to shop around!? Apparently M$ are trying to copy all the cool kids with their profitable app stores, but they don't seem to have the marketing bluster to pull it off.
Metaphorically speaking, pretty much all of Microsoft's recent 'development' is autopedophobic machine-gunning!
Just as a thought
Are there actually any valid figures on how many windows sales are actual upgrades to existing systems as opposed to direct OEM installations? I suppose Redmond might consider that commercially sensitive...
My guess would be that the vast majority of people simply buy a new computer from time to time and run whatever comes on it. At best, they'll do the SP upgrade, if they think about it. But I reckon only the homebuilders and speed freaks ever buy an OS directly...
Re: Just as a thought
A further complication is the number of corporate buyers who will get a new PC (with the OEM Win8 on it, because the majority of OEMs still don't give you a choice) and then just slap on the corporate volume-licensed image (either Win7 or XP). These people have technically bought Win8, but would have preferred not to and aren't using it.
I'm sure *that* figure is commercially sensitive, but MS must have a pretty good estimate because anyone with a volume licence for XP or Win7 but not one for Win8 is almost certainly doing exactly this.
I just bought a laptop for my new employee and it came with Windows 8. What a horrible OS, how on earth did they manage to screw up a near perfect OS (i.e. Windows 7)? It makes absolutely no sense for devices that do not have touch screens and even then you then have to combat the switching between a 2d and 3d world with their weird new start menu, everything just seems harder and more complex. I definitely won't be upgrading any of my existing PCs!
I still think....
...that "Windows 9" sounds very German, and quite appropriate...
Bought my copy
Foolish to think they would suddenly change their entire pricing model to mirror Apple's, but I'd forgotten how much full versions cost so buying ahead in case I need it seemed sensible... , maybe I'll dual-boot it on my Mac as my main PC probably needs replacing soonish and can live with W7 until then.
Or get a chromebook
I bought one of Google's $249 chromebooks for evaluation. If I was a diligent IT manager, I'd be very tempted to buy everyone one and finally ditch MS - along with all the SQL, Outlook and Sharepoint servers, Office licences, virus defences and backup facilities. Users would be happy to get a sexy new laptop, and it would decimate support costs.
But most IT managers will rail against Chromebooks, because their departments, budgets and influence will shrink.
Win-does or win-suck
OS's are a horrible topic at the moment. Windows is changing their look/feel further and losing sight of the desktop user for a more integrated experience across devices. This might work or it might fail. Microsofts record of irritating mistakes and major fails are beaten back by a consistent interface and almost hassle-less installation of tools/programs. 98 sucked until release 2, same with xp and vista never worked. The footprint increases and the security slowly tightens but improvements often get in the way of users.
Personally I have windows 7 but I prefer XP. My requirement for a good 64bit windows was the problem. This system exists to play games on and thats all. I have a fedora linux partition and have almost instantly found myself moving over.
But all is not rosy. Linux is fragmented by distributions but thats not really much of a concern. Recently we had the move to Gnome3 interface which I kinda like but it gets in the way too. I have tried Unity and found people united by their hate for it, with fair reason. I run a mint distro with cinnamon which I think is the best of the lot which is easy to use and still more secure than windows. However a rare glitch has stopped me using it on my desktop.
Linux is the better OS if you know how to use a computer and dont need windows specific software. However most users like the bliss of ignorance because they dont want to know what they are doing, they want a system to do what they know. So for these people they are trapped. Either they will like or dislike the new OS but their understandable desire to just use the computer with minimum fuss will keep them trapped with windows. Some will complain, some will like it. But change is more difficult than complaining.
I am shocked at the excessive pricing of microsoft products. I expect they will be priced out of the market at some point. Especially with google and apple squeezing the market. And linux will likely remain in the domain of the geek. But thats a good thing. Look at the trouble ubuntu is getting while they try to go mainstream
I have a better idea for Microsoft
Stop developing, selling and supporting Windows(TM) at all and users will crawl to you begging...
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