The hoarder's dilemma, or 'Why can't I throw anything away?'
I like my house zen. Unfortunately, I am a hoarder, so it’s not. My half-life wife has been trying to educate me by making me watch TV programmes with titles like Extreme Hoarders, I Can’t Stop Hoarding and Smelly Old Fat Bastards Who Don’t Wash And Won’t Throw Anything Away. To some extent, this does the trick. After each …
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Believe it or not
Some of us are still maintaining systems running NT or 98. Even 3.11 and MS-DOS 6.22 sometimes.
The usual scenario is that someone buys a piece of lab kit for £100,000 that came with a £1000 computer. The lab kit is still fine and dandy, and the computer interface works as well as it ever did. Up to the day that the computer expires. Sometimes, it's embedded so well they didn't even realize there's an ancient PC inside. (Screwed to metal brackets with self-tapping screws!)
At this point the manufacturer quotes you £100,000 for a new instrument that's so much better than your old one (but £98,000 more than you can afford). Or, £5000 for a "new" antique computer and an engineer to install it (plus labour and travelling time). That's if the manufacturer is still in business.
Cue a call to the IT geek, who hoards old computers ... with good reason. And yes, he's also hoarded a copy of the disk with the software installed on it. So easy these days ... 40Mb disk? 10Mb disk? But try finding a replacement disk small enough to replace it with!
Hoarders unite!
Being a relatively young (in IT lifetimes) 33 I can't compete with some collections but for utter uselessness I have a Spectrum 48k with plenty of old games. That isn't the utter uselessness part. At the time I acquired it, one Christmas where I was overjoyed, it also came with a Microdrive and cartridge but no way to connect the two. Needless to say I still have the Spectrum, the games, and the Microdrive.
In terms of PCs I have my first PC sitting in the corner of my room along with the first monitor I bought. Both are relatively new compared to the Spectrum, bought around 1999 I believe, but they haven't been used in almost a decade. They still work but it would be so slow I'd weep openly if I tried to use it for any purpose.
Re: Hoarders unite!
Pssh. I have two ZX Spectrums in my work-room. One's a 16K, one's a 48K. Both had bad memory chips and thus don't successfully boot. But I still have them, joysticks and bunch of tapes (all of which have already been TZX'd by the relevant Spectrum archives), not to mention every issue of "INPUT" by Marshall Cavendish (a programming weekly, which included Spectrum, Commodore, Tandy, Dragon and BBC listings in BASIC *and* machine code).
I also have a 6-ft long moving LED sign from a shop that the company stopped making in 1986 which has a faulty "storage chip" (really a cheap memory chip like the Spectrums with a circuit-board battery soldered to it which has been dead for about the last ten years) and no longer holds any messages you put on it.
And, somewhere, I have an Intel QX3 which I refuse to let go. But at least that works and you can still get (Linux) drivers for it!
Re: Hoarders unite!
"INPUT"
Nice, if I ever get our BBC micro working again I might ask for some scans of those just for shits and giggles.
Additionally if I find out what's wrong with it I might be back to this thread for spare parts, I have more games for it than you can shake a stick at (it also has a mod on the case for the Action Replay chip). I refuse to get rid of it, my wife knows she can throw it away when body is cold and long dead, hence I don't keep my life insurance paid up ;-)
Re: Hoarders unite!
I have two BBC Master 128 computers, a single 5.25inch disk drive, and twin Cumana disk drive. All my old 5.25" disks, several unopened boxes of 5.25" disks. AMX mouse, joystick. All fully functioning. Plus a BBC-style "cassette lead" (yes it does work to load programs off an mp3 player!).
If a BBC micro won't start, one of first things to try is to see how far the start-up beeps get - this is some diagnostic. Remove and re-seat the keyboard cable-connector. Possibly remove and re-seat the OS ROMs.
If you've got a mod, check the wiring for that - I carefully extracted a non-standard video mod from one of mine as that was causing trouble.
A BBC to PC RS232 adapter cable with 15 -> 5volt-dropper resistors wired inside the plug on the signal-lines from the PC...
Probably every mobile phone I've ever owned (even though the first three I stopped using as they no-longer worked properly) - batteries and/or keyboard worn out.
I've got a JVC not-a-Walkman which sounds horribly tinny (capacitors expired?) and LCD screen (for clock/radio) long-since non-functioning... but it's the only thing left that will (sort-of) play tapes.
... and no end of other "rubbish".
Zen?
I'm not a Zen monk, nor do I play one on the Telly, but I believe you are spot on about your karmic state. There is more merit in creating an new thing than maintaining an old thing.
If hoarding == maintaining, then no merit for you.
Mine's the saffron robe.
I have 8 PCI-X SAS HBAs just sitting in anti static bags in a box in the corner of the room, and not a single motherboard with PCI-X. Occasionally I throw a blanket over the disaster area that is my tech dumping ground and pretend it's not really there..
I quite literally now have something (to do) for the weekend...
...as there's clearly no shortage worldwide of old bits of kit, I am going to stop holding on to what I do have.
ATA Hard Drives - to be hooked up, archived and wiped
Ethernet/Fast Ethernet hubs - to be skipped
Cables that look iffy - to be skipped
Power bricks - to be skipped
CD ROMs - to be skipped
CDRs - to be checked for data, skipped
Kettle plugs, figure of eight cables - one of each to be kept, others skipped
USB sticks under 1GB - to be checked for data, skipped
Old MCP training documents - to be recycled
Old books - to be offered to my staff
Old mice, keyboards, PCMCIA cards, Parallel cables... you can see where this is going.
Re: I quite literally now have something (to do) for the weekend...
Stick the USB keys and the ethernet hubs on fleabay.
The USB keys would be great (bundled in packs of 5) as semi-throwaway School ones.
An ethernet hub is just occasionally handy for sniffing ethernet traffic.
Yell when you do - me and 50 other people will be along shortly! :-)
Re: I quite literally now have something (to do) for the weekend...
Yeah good points.
It was the Ethernet/Fast Ethernet rather than Gig Ethernet that made them candidates for disposal.
As for USB keys, is it ethical to palm-off my old, severely under sized USB keys (some are only 16MB) to a school? Won't they have to do exactly what I was about to and skip them..?
(PS, by skip, I do of course mean carefully take them to the local recycling centre so that they can disposed of in line with WEEE regulations)
Re: I quite literally now have something (to do) for the weekend...
Don't knock it, a 16MB USB key can sometimes be invaluable for just getting a word document to a PC connected to a printer.
If you consider them expendable, then they sound ideal for giving small chunks of data (photos from a party, for example) to friends.
Re: I quite literally now have something (to do) for the weekend...
I had a bunch of old, small giveaway USB keys that my customers would be insulted if I gave to them nowadays, so I posted them on freegle/freecycle. Several people were interested. The guy who came to collect them said something about a model train group... I didn't bother to find out more!
And kettle leads and figure-of-eight leads are things I seem to use every couple of months. Figure-of-eight cables are useful for iPad chargers, particularly if they have a foreign plug -- I find they are less weight to carry on a short trip than a plug adapter, if I only need to be able to charge my phone and my iPad.
Re: I quite literally now have something (to do) for the weekend...
Never mind the school, try a University: as an undergrad we were told that we couldn't do one of the experiments as there was no way to get data off of the oscilloscope. The department ended up managing to find dinky 512MB ones, but they cost the earth, and god only knows if they're still available.
And it was only a few weeks ago I found myself having to clear a 1GB drive tthat once held manuals and drivers to do very much the same: anything larger ---even if partitioned/formatted smaller would be "too large" and not work in the scope.
And these aren't even very old machines, at least by lab scope standards: not even ten years old.
Mind you, don't get me started about hoarding old stuffs. The other scope has only HP-IB and a floppy disk drive. To use the floppy disks, I ended up bring in the USB floppy drive from home, that everyone called me mad for getting and then keeping. Right up to the point where my supervisor had to use it to get drivers off of a floppy disk for a rather expensive bit of kit that escapes me right now.
It's the suppliers fault
I have a box of bits too. But the majority of the items are , what you might call, left overs.
Let me explain: You get a new router/modem/super hub etc. it comes with a length of CAT5, whatever the length supplied it is always too short so I end up with using the one I already have and the supplied one goes in the box. I loose a screw/bolt/fastener etc. I only need ONE! but the pack contains 4 and the 3 spares go in the box. The other day I needed a radiator bleed key and they come in packs of 2!!! Why the hell would I need 2 these!!! and so it goes on. Buy a PC and it comes with a mouse and keyboard. I already have an excellent mouse and keyboard. HELP!!
Re: It's the suppliers fault
"The other day I needed a radiator bleed key and they come in packs of 2!!! Why the hell would I need 2 these!!!"
One downstairs, one upstairs? You would be amazed how many people have an upstairs and a downstairs vacuum cleaner, to save carting their sole one up and down the stairs. Usually they are called Henry or Hetty.
Re: It's the suppliers fault
Well yes, 2 vacuum cleaners I can understand but radiator bleed keys are quite small and light and live in my tool box. If your house is like mine there is only one radiator that ever needs bleeding and that is at the end of the run in the bathroom.
Re: It's the suppliers fault
I don't like those multipacks of button cells ('watch batteries') containing a variety of sizes... I only want one size, and that's for my LED keyring! Who the hell needs 4 units each of 5 different sizes at the same time?
Radiator bleed key
You checked they were both exactly the same?
I'd have guessed one was for modern Metric radiators and the other was for old Imperial ones. Like the connectors and converters in your plumbing kit, for 3/4 inch to 22mm (to six inches of 22mm pipe and back to 3/4, because nobody ever thought to hoard 3/4 inch pipe).
What?
No plumbing kit??
A pipe hoarder???
Ditto
I have to throw my lot in with you all as well. Having recently moved and all this has come to the surface, more precisely all this junk is covering a lot of surfaces in the garage. I pretended to be ruthless by throwing some stuff out knowing full well I had more of it stashed elsewhere in other boxes, this did gain a lot of brownie points with the missus though.
I did find some antique cine cameras I forgot I had as well, one of them so antique I'm actually looking for someone to get it appraised, if it amounts to more than a couple of hundred quid you can bet your last pound I will be dining out on it for years to come with the missus.
Equally bought a load of plastic storage boxes, found a load of electronic copies of comics and vacuum packed the real ones up into the loft, well they could be worth something in years to come surely?
Anon, just in case Mrs Anon stumbles across this post.
None left here
A few weeks ago, I took my box of assorted bits to work, added them to the pile waiting for the secure recycling van, and went to my office.
And I don't regret a thing - the only spares I have now are a few SATA drives, a few cables - usb, firewire, displayport - and that's it.
I have a large amount of space in my attic, and I'm wondering what /new/ crap I can fill it with.
Hoarding = don't leave the house often
Junk is junk. Is it taking up lots of space? No? fine, stash it somewhere. The Sony Walkman can be put in a drawer. It's filling up the attic/basement? Garbage.
You have one Commodore 64, a few drives, monitor. Fine. Each and every variety/color of Commodore that ever came out and drives stacked to the ceiling? Get help. You're one step away from being found dead in a house with 50 cats, some feasting on your corpse and garbage piled to the ceiling.
Beer icon because quite frankly, you need to get out of the house more often.
Freebay
I 'warehoused' my spare room, entirely shelved it for stacking crates, so I'm what others would call a classic hoarder. I'm not. Well only partly. Like others I simply cannot bear the thought of knowing I'm throwing away something I am pretty sure is still useful and someone else is likely to want. Hate the idea of landfill when there's a welcoming home for it out there, somewhere. It doesn't help knowing that the minute I do skip something I either need it or someone asks if I have one. Of course, until someone needs it, it is 'valueless junk'.
The problem is matching-up giver and receiver. I don't want want profit nor to lose money; charity shops don't want the stuff, Freecycle (or whatever it's called these days) is usually mailing list based and too localised, and eBay charges. We need some kind soul to come up with a decent, eBay-like, no-charge, "pay the postage and it's yours", service. I'd do it myself but I'm not the entrepreneur type, don't have the skills. Must be plenty of El Reg readers who do ...
+1 for everything everyone has said above...(even the comments from my wife)
I have those boxes filled with cables; old DVD drives that still work and get used for diagnosing dodgy modern drives; 'proper modem' cards; 60Gb hard drives (for that emergency mythtv frontend); 12v power bricks...it's all there. Even complete P4s (those HP 530 machines REFUSE to die).
And a 1.2Mb 5.25 in drive...(anyone got an edge connector for those?)
There is some hope; I've ditched all but one of the 3.5in drives pulled from REALLY old machines (they read damaged disks where newe drives won't); all the 3.5in disks (unreadable now) ; all the 10baseT cards..All the (broken) CRT monitors)
The newer LCD monitors are being reused as TV replacements as my LCD TV's die (Ha!... MythTv again)
The *spare* IBM Model M keyboard is staying...obviously
Re: +1 for everything everyone has said above...(even the comments from my wife)
"And a 1.2Mb 5.25 in drive...(anyone got an edge connector for those?)"
Have one of those - and also a low density one as some 5.25 floppies can be incompatible with high density drives. Another reason for retaining a couple of AT PCs for the occasion when someone finds they have their first novel archived on 5.25 media. A modern motherboard might support a floppy - but the bios/OS might not handle 5.25 floppy formats.
I have every PC Zone cover CD up to around 2003.
Why? I don't know.
Re: I have every PC Zone cover CD up to around 2003.
DOSBox. Even available for Android now.
babies and hoarding dont mix
I had a great room for junk....sorry spares. It was full of old towers, and hard drives, and i had the best cable box i have ever seen. then we had a baby. apparantly babies cant live in cable boxes. so i had to get rid of it all.
i still miss my cable box. i loved sitting trying to untangle a usb cable only to discover there was an ancient MS joystick on the otherside.
Not impressed...
Of course, my attic contains 3 crates full of cabling, a lot of different tape devices, and almost complete Iomega collection(internal and externals of different size and ports), a Jaz, Clik! and lots of accessories. Even a bunch of Bernoully disks, but not the drive...
There's 'big iron' corner, where the SUN SparcStation 5 and the UltraSparc 5 is stacked together with the SGI Indigo 2. There's a portable based on the SUN... An old HP 16bit workstation from the 80s...
Home computers occupy another area... Oric 1, Commodores, Sinclairs (ZX-81, ZX Spectrum 48 and 128+2, QL and 3 Cambridge Z88), Ataris, Amigas... Even a BBC B.
Games consoles. No Xbox, but I have a Nintendo VirtualBoy and an Atmark Pippin among the 20 or so stored there.
Portables... Dear God, I'm afraid to go into that corner...
PDAs in boxes, in crates, in heaps...
I even have a few different versions of the Canon BJ10sx inkjet printer with different manufacturers' logo on them...
How many can name all the consoles on this picture:
http://anthony-lion.livejournal.com/pics/catalog/2561/10006
I fear we are kindred spirits... I have a huge collection of old consoles, including most of those in your (very impressive) picture and an old SPARC Station 5... has to throw out the old Sun 20" CRT when I last moved (it was enormous and very heavy) so it goes unused, my dreams of having a fanless *Ux firewall/server dashed, when I could never get the Wyse serial terminal to work with it (I still have that, green on black).. and I never did find a connector to convert the Sun 15D3 or whatever it was video port to VGA...
I love the internal design of the SS5, so clean and minimalistic and functional...
Also got about 5 old PC boxes (I left 10 I'd acquired behind as well when I moved), 3 boxes of cables, a 386 compaq laptop (runs and boots still! Has the weird trackball built into the lid)...
The video adapter... Yeah, that one was a bit of an annoyance... Until I found one on eBay...
Probably shouldn't mention the Orange card in my SS 5... Yeah, a PC emulator card.
One day I'll get one of my SUNs to boot. (Crapped out drives)
The picture is a bit of a trap... Theres a couple of items that aren't what they look to be.
Bonus points to those who recognise the small figurine at the top shelf...
Ah. The SparcStation 5. My main computer for many years, until She Who Must Be Obeyed made me get rid of it. Worse even than trying to find a VGA to 13W3 adapter was getting a printer lead. £120 from Sun themselves, but at least it was about five metres long. Shame the printer was sat right next to the computer ...
Re: Toxic!
Kev O'Neill off the leash!
I loved the bit where all the senile old super heroes decide to fly off the roof and instead hit the ground like heroic lemmings.
Re: Toxic!
I have always hated superhero comics. This is why I loved, and continue have an enduring admiration for, Marshal Law.
I was right to keep my old Tungsten T3
Still works, and my youngest (8) loves playing with it.
See, I knew there was a reason.
Glad I am not the only one
My IT clutter was at it's very best in 2006. All the old useful bits from my failed business, all the donations from my customers and friends. Sometimes you have to ask yourself if you actually need 13 network cards. In 2007 I moved counties and was able to give the kit of yesteryear to a mate who also was a dumping ground for obsolete kit.
Fast forward to 2012, hows my clutter?
erm... 5 laptops, several routers, seemingly hundreds of USB gadgets and more 40GB drives than I want to think about. And that's just the stuff I know about.
*fail icon, because I assured the wifey that it would all go.
Recycling
It's what stops me. I'm an altruistic hoarder: I keep it because it might be useful to someone else so I don't want simply to throw it out. We're allowed to simply dump consumer electronics but I just can't bring myself to do it.
For most old electronics I've given up, so I take them apart, take out the metal, throw out the plastic and hoard all the old motherboards with a hope that I can find an e-waste place later that can deal with all the toxic stuff.
I have two old desktop PCs and an old laptop. I like low-power devices so I wouldn't want to use them now anyway for a server or anything. Maybe I can wipe, wipe, wipe, wipe, wipe, wipe, wipe, wipe the disks and donate the computers to one of those re-purposing companies.
I may simply need to do the Free-on-a-sheet (and we also have some unused non-100% cotton sheets, since I'm picky) thing on the front lawn and hope some real hoarders come and take most of the old crap that works.
Or maybe I'll do a thing-a-week (weekly collections here) and find one thing to dump. That way I might get rid of all the crap by 2020.
Electronic Detritus
My own collection of electronic detritus! I could ditch it all, free up precious space in my cupboard, and live an uncluttered minimalist existence, but my inbuilt hoarding instinct is too powerful.
https://twitter.com/TonyPatterson/status/259276603115331584/photo/1
Agonizing over my TV
It's a 1985 25" Philips Vacuum-tube model that still works perfectly (connected by SCART to a PVR, since digital TV hadn't been invented when they made it).
I really ought to replace it with a modern flat screen except
1. 25" 4:3 aspect ratio fits in my living room perfectly. A flat-wide-screen that fitted would either give me a distorted picture, or a smaller one with black strips down the edges. (Movies excluded ... but I'm not a TV or movie junkie).
2. I have huge respect for a piece of hardware containing 25kV and complex analogue circuitry, that still works perfectly 27 years later, and I can't bear the thought of throwing it away for no good reason.
Help!
PS At work there's a 25 inch Iiyama vacuum-tube monitor that prpbably also still works perfecty, but that hasn't been thrown out for a different reason. It took four people to get it up the twisty narrow stairs, and it would take at least three to get it down again for disposal. Easier to just let it lie in the bottom of a cupboard that no-one ever uses, until they decide to demolish the building.
Re: Agonizing over my TV
That seems by far the best strategy. However tidy we would like to be, entropy is bound to catch up with us. There's no escaping it, and very little point putting much effort into the attempt.
Besides, computer cases, old cardboard boxes, lumps of polystyrene, piles of manuals and crackling Fergusons or Pyes act very well as insulation and cut down on draughts, which helps us discharge our obligations to the wider environment. In that sense, hoarding is a duty rather than a problem.
It's also our right. We're all paying council tax, or the equivalent, and a swift house clearance at the end of it is part of the deal, whether someone off the telly likes it or not. Does it really matter if we or our possessions get recycled now or in a few years' time? In the great scheme of things, it's unlikely.
Recently went to see the parents and mother decided it was the day to clear out my "computer stuff" cupboard from when i lived at home. (I thought it had all gone in a skip a decade ago) I then discovered I am a hoarder...
2x 28k modems
1x 56k modem
1x 56k v90 modem
Too many new / unused telephone - modem cables
Too many serial / paralell leadss
2x paralell spllitters (marked color / b&w / scanner / zip drive - shudder)
Pretty much every bit of Palm ever made and sold in a box (uncle worked at palm)
Bluetooth OCR devices for palm pilots
Windows 3.11 discs
Windows 95 discs
Windows 98 SE Disc
Windows ME box (discs all burnt and melted into one useful blob)
Various Encarta and Office discs
Borland learn c++ in 7 days (unopened)
Various GFX Cards
Various CDs labelled, DRIVERS DONT LOSE!!
Various Digital Cameras probably with resolutions lower than my front facing phone camera
Various SoundBlaster LIVE! cards and front panels
And a device that looks like some sort of media apparatus with a PS2 port on the end.
All seems completely useless in todays world, did i throw ALL OF IT out? Nope.
Hey, you never know when you might need a PS2 colon inspection device!
If "she who must be obeyed" knew about any of this, it would be in the skip before i could blink, so it stays safely in the garage for another 10 years of being forgotten
Walkman
For the benefit of the younger readers you explained what a Walkman is/was, but neglected to explain your explanation by saying what an audio tape cassette is....sadly I think there could be some younger readers still saying "what??"
I, however, am content to be an old codger with not only >1 tape player but many, many cassettes.....and a whole heap of other electronic bits'n'bobs of hoardage
Re: Walkman
I recently heard a piece on the radio where someone brought a C60 cassette into a class full of 9 year olds and asked them if they knew what it was. Not a clue. What's a Walkman? "A man who walks around a lot?"
Finally, one kid remembered seeing a cassette player in a car.
When asked what the C60 label might mean, one kid piped up "60 megabytes?"
Just to be different ....
..... we are storing an Atari 520 STFM complete with cables, software, worn out joysticks and other accessories, because ** my wife ** won't part with it for sentimental reasons.
I recently admitted I could have no possible use for a Franklin Rex, and nor could anyone else, so that went to the tip. However, while clearing out some stuff left behind by nest-fleaing son, I found a Casio SF-4000 Digital Diary, which with some new batteries can, I'm sure, be brought back to life.
I put some ram on ebay and someone bought it, but didn't pay. Relisted, next buyer obviously a dealer, also didn't pay. Finally sold it by requiring immediate payment.
Re: Just to be different ....
I remember the Atari ST lived on well past its sell-by date in musician's studios... integrated MIDI ports.
Re: Just to be different ....
> I remember the Atari ST lived on well past its sell-by date in musician's studios
I know someone still using one for exactly that purpose. And you will have heard his music[1], even if you don't know his name.
He was *delighted* when I showed him a HD floppy could be used in a low-density drive if you formatted it. He'd been paying £10 each before that...
Vic.
[1] When you hear something introduced as "$this_weeks_face's new single", it's extremely unlikely to be "their" single at all. They might have sung some bits of it. Or sometimes not.
Support
Hearing all the stories makes me wonder how many of us worked in IT supporting old systems or moving customers onto new kit and trying to maintain their business legacy capability?
The history of IT is littered with frequent changes in hardware or O/S specs - while the customer business had a much longer life-cycle. Virtual Machines were supposed to be the panacea - but not sure the potential has been realised.
I just know I'm going to need a serial mouse or a 5 pin DIN plug keyboard again some day.
And why would I throw away an original 3Com Palm Pilot? It does still work!
etc
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