A top NASA boffin has outlined ongoing lab experiments at the space agency aimed at first steps towards the building of a warp-drive spacecraft theoretically capable of travelling at 10 times the speed of light. The latest developments at the "Eagleworks" super-advanced space drive lab at NASA's Johnson Space Center were …
>>>it would require a minimum amount of energy equivalent to completely annihilating the mass of the planet Jupiter<<<
Halliburton are said to be looking into it.
>>>if it were mishandled - would explode with a force of some 17,000 megatons, equivalent to several global nuclear wars all in one<<<
With Enron as equal partner.
Warping and Relativity
"Though some scientifiction makes use of the fact that a starship crew going at close to lightspeed would personally experience a much shorter journey time than the decades or centuries that would pass in the universe outside the ship."
As this is using "warp drive" would this rule not be applied? Your not in the conventional physics model, as pointed out in your article. Therefore relativity would/should not apply or is changed to something completely different. Making the journey time the real time?
I in general have a very limited grasp on relativity so more knowledgeable people please comment to save my sanity. Of course this is still all theoretical.
Re: Warping and Relativity
Could be extremely painful. As your "relativity" is no longer connected to the rest of the universe, who is to say what will happen? Perhaps your entire ship ages at a billion times faster? Or perhaps all the atoms cease to move and you freeze to death? The fiction of the theory is too great for this one.
Re: Warping and Relativity
Read "Tau Zero" by Poul Anderson
Warp 2.15 thankyou
I see someone posted while I was calculating it
I'd still like to see us capable of the speed of light or greater during my lifetime. It would make getting around our solar system so much quicker. Besides, we need to get going on colonising Mars... I just kind of hope we're on the cusp of it all.
Travel within the solar system would probably still be limited to relativistic speeds.. Besides being relatively crowded , there's plenty of reasons why you most definitely do not want to activate an artificial gravity well within close proximity to the sun's gravity well.
Some sod will no doubt erect a speed camera just past Jupiter, enforcing a 0.40C speed limit to protect the unique patterns present in the asteroid belt....
So, just outside the Cardynge Limit then?
(Mine's the one with a pair of DeLameters in the pockets)
You have seen the speed of light (close to) already. But we can only send small particles in a giant accelerator ring. Or radio waves. As to greater than light, it's totally not possible (it means "to go past my future" so is self contradictory). :P
Only for taking the Tube...
Read the story and the comments
concluded I or the world had gone totally mad.
Taking rest of day off, intend to end up dead drunk
No matter how long it takes to get to the destination planet make sure you are NOT in the advance party to be beamed down there - it will end badly for you!
I'll make sure I only take yellow or blue t-shirts... if i leave the red ones in the washing, I'll be fine, right?
Red Shirts only applies to ENT & TOS
Security Dead-men-walking wear Yellow/Gold in NXT / DS9 / VOY
The latest research indicates that the safest attire for exploring alien worlds is some combination of cricket whites, a long scarf, leather jacket, bow tie and curly wig. If that's all too much effort, dressing gown and slippers have also performed well.
"Red Shirts only applies to ENT & TOS"
But seriously, only the original series counts.
Surely a Pith Helmet
an Inter-Solar Topee in this case
Einstein showed that the issue was around particles with mass having difficulty accelerating to the speed of light.
Slipstick Libby developed the inertialess drive, which turned the ship inertialess, thereby instantaneously travelling away at the speed of light. Acceleration becomes much easier without mass...
Heinlein had it right - don't try to accelerate to light speed, look at removing the effect of mass....
Mind you, the Long Earth suggests that all you need is a do-it-yourself box powered by a potato to reach the next planet....
Re: Weighty matters
> thereby instantaneously travelling away at the speed of light
Unfortunately in all directions at once.
Yes, there will be a ceremony at Arlington later today, brought to you by CNN/Interplan.
Re: Destroy All Monsters
Brings a new meaning to 'Brownian motion in the pants' when it FTL at the same time.
Using the Software route
It may seem silly now. However, within the next few decades mankind would be contemplating on the idea that this material universe is designed and maintained by something akin to a super software. Physical distances would just be a matter of numerical value in the Code View.
As to there being live elsewhere, I was once told by a person who seemed to be connecting to some supernatural intelligence that currently there are 35 planets in this universe, with MANKIND living there, not just life. He did also mention that within 300 years man will be travelling to the distant stars, within seconds, so to say.
Re: Using the Software route
While I don't subscribe to it being software, it would appear that locality could be virtual or at least an illusion. It's less that somewhere is far away physically, but that it is a certain amount of effort or time away. Perhaps it could be said that all points are very close, they just take longer to communicate.
Fly in the ointment
If you put a magic warp field generator on your spaceship, the warp field has to move faster than the speed of light through unwarped space or your spaceship will overtake it. To use a magical warp field generator to get to Alpha Centauri at ten times the speed of light, you switch on you field generator and project a beam of warped space towards Alpha Centauri for 3.93 years. You then jump into the beam and switch it off. You ride the beam for 159 days (Earth time) and arrive at Alpha Centauri at the same time as the leading edge of the beam. Calculating the size of the lens needed to keep a beam of gravitation waves focussed to the size of a space ship 4.37 light years away is left as an exercise for the reader.
Thanks For The Update Lewis !
Now back to my copy of Greg Bear's Eon, which would make a great movie.
I don’t think we need FtL to colonise the galaxy, considering there’s no rush.
Start mining the asteroids, shipping the proceeds to Earth.
Start trading amongst the miners – no gravity well so it’s cheaper.
Asteroids declare independence.
Mining happens further and further out.
Eventually realise all you need is mass, and not that dot of a Sun.
Start to leave the solar system.
Hundreds of years later hit the Alpha Century system.
Thousands of years after that hit other solar systems.
Do the same again.
At that point humanity is probably several dozen clades and might bump into FtL Earth ships near habitable planets – but they would never bother living in a gravity well anyway.
Where can you get Exotic Matter from?
I hear that it's very hard stuff to come by.
Re: Where can you get Exotic Matter from?
It's called Unobtainium :-)
Re: Where can you get Exotic Matter from?
Go to tesco. Look for the meat counter.
In the year of thirty-nine...
Assembled here the volunteers
In the days when lands were few
Here the ship sailed out into the blue and sunny morn
The sweetest sight ever seen
And the night followed day
And the story tellers say
That the score brave souls inside
For many a lonely day
Sailed across the milky seas
Ne'er looked back never feared never cried
Don't you hear my call
Though you're many years away
Don't you hear me calling you
Write your letters in the sand
For the day I'll take your hand
In the land that our grand-children knew
...surely just finding a stable worm-hole would be easier?
Now we know
why the observed FTL neutrinos were ascribed to a timing bug or other mundane cause. THEY wanted this discovery for themselves, THEY couldn't hush it up any longer so THEY played it down.
There is a small amount in earth orbit (antiprotons held there by our magnetic field) as seen by the PAMELA satellite.
If we are lucky there might be more in Jupiter's orbit (large magnetic field there too).
There is really nothing special about antimatter. It's as amazing as a clock ticking backwards... it just has the battery in the wrong way!
I'd really like to see what the job descriptions and recruitment ads for the Eagleworks super-advanced space drive lab look like.
I imagine that the applicants consist of 1% brilliant, highly-qualified scientists and 99% raving lunatics.
Nah - regular blokes
I've known them for almost 15 years. We're all part of the "alternate propulsion" crowd who go to conferences like STAIF and propose out-of-the-box physics. The difference is that Sonny White gets paid to do it. Now *that* is smart.
An aside about trip times. Given sufficient energy, you could e.g. cross the entire 100,000 light year extent of our galaxy in mere seconds of ship time without breaking light speed. That's standard 1905 Einstein special relativity. The problem is that kajillions of generations would have passed back on Earth by the time you returned. An Alcubierre-style drive like the one described here doesn't suffer from this drawback.
We have a little time. Our demise will come either from the collision of Andromeda with our Milky Way, or from our sun ballooning into a red giant and BBQ'ing Earth. We have at least a couple of billion years to figure this stuff out.
So NASA is catching up?
I mean the Austrians have been there in 1992.
But be careful weird things happen there.
L. Krauss wrote an interesting book covering some problems that would need to be worked out before we could use warp drives for human travel.
Personally, I'd like to see someone go 'plaid'.
Warp 10 TOS and NG
In TOS, the warp scale was the warp number cubed equaled the number of times the speed of light so warp ten would be 1000 times the speed of light. (I think, it's been a while since I cracked open the technical reference). In Next Generation the warp scale was recalibrated to where warp 10 was how long it would take to cross the galaxy edge to edge in 1 year. Obviously Scriptwriters are notorious for playing fast and loose with the rules if the rules get in the way of a story. (i.e Paris' warp 10 journey through every point of the quadrant)
I'm sure there's a table out there somewhere in the internets that someone has put on a webpage.
It's like I keep saying; just get to Mars find the archive (and a certain element) and the Galaxy is open to us...
As an incentive: first group to the bar on Omega get free beer ;)
Personal time experience wont slow down as expected
If you are warping space to achieve FTL then the personal experience of time wont slow down as expected.
Personal time only slows down significantly if the people in the craft were approaching light speed in the traditional sense of acceleration.
However, warping space time means that the time around the craft is modified so the craft is not really travelling anywhere near light speed at all.
Ummm...traveling at the speed of light and taking several lifetimes to get to another planet outside our solar system. How many lifetimes to reach our nearest star. Let's see....our closest star is 1000 years divided by the average lifespan of 70 years..but wait, only about 45-50 workable years? That's aproximately 20 workable lifetimes! Add to that the fact radio transmissions travel a little slower than the speed of light, it could take 1000 years just for the transmissions to reach earth or 2000 years to send one and get a response back . What good is that? With 1000 years before they may even reach any place coupled with 2000 years, or a total of 3000 years to even learn anything about the place when they get there this looks like another useless program. I like the space program as much as anyone and loved growing up with it but why are we wasting tax payers money on this impracticle useless program???
This may come as a surprise to you, but...
The nearest planets are a bit closer than that...
(Not a clue as to where the closest habitable planet is, though)
And the nearest other star is 4 lightyears away, not 1000.
The 20 workable lifetimes doesn't work out, either.
(This assumes that the next generation is just ready to take over when the previous is dead or too decrepit to work any longer)
You need to calculate in generations, which used to be anything from 15 to 20 years but are now probably closer to 25 in European countries.
Bzzt! It doesn't work like that (see my other post). As for The Interstellar Postal Service, it might be back to a souped-up version of those hydraulic tubes we used to have (I'm old enough to remember them vaguely). Substitute warp pipe for air pipe and you're in biz.
Or use quantum teleportation plus 3D printing over a warp pipe. Instant solid instagram! How was the trip, Granny?
"Add to that the fact radio transmissions travel a little slower than the speed of light"
I think I'd alert a physicist about that !
currently the theory states that the closer you get the speed of light, the greater your mass increases, and the more power you need to keep moving until you reach a point where you need infinite power to move infinite mass.
However, what if this is actually incorrect, and at a certain point there is actually a loss of mass, so after a certain point you actually require less power to increse to even faster speeds?
Perhaps after a certain point, if you can change your mass in relation to the rest of the universe, this is the breakthrough we need?
There is a loss of amass past a certain point. It's called "annihilation through impact of galactic matter". IE you hit something and explode!
Mines the one with 1000km of Lead plating...
"what if this is actually incorrect"
There is the problem. You can't start by postulating magic stuff.
The quantum thingamabob drive presentation is of the same caliber: "Here is what I would do if a had a magic space drive not needing any reaction mass!". Unfortunately it doesn't explain the magic space drive not needing any reaction mass.
It needs to be repeated.
WARP 10 IS NOT TEN TIMES THE SPEED OF LIGHT!
FIX IT! FIX IT! FIX IT! FIX IT! FIX IT! FIX IT!
FIX IT! FIX IT! FIX IT!
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