back to article There is life after the death of Microsoft’s Windows 8 Start button

The disappearance of the Start button in Microsoft’s new Windows has proved unsettling for users. “I want Start. Start I say,” said an early tester in a post entitled "Worst 60 minutes in my entire life". One year on, and the Start screen is still a contentious issue. “The advantage of the overlaid menu is that it preserves …

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      1. Anonymous Coward
        Windows

        @Andy

        No, the icons in the taskbar do not have jumplists. Jumplists were a feature explicitly tied to the start menu.

        "Yes, you can. (Aside from actual Metro apps, which never run elevated, by design)"

        Sorry, but you're wrong. You right click in the corner where you normally click to go to the TIFKAM start screen. So you're calling up a context menu from which you can select things such as "computer management", "disk management", etc.. You can't right click again here in order to raise your privileges.

        In the other example the same deal applies: you're in the charms section. You can't right click there to call up more options.

  1. Anonymous Coward
    FAIL

    It's all so "Gnome 3" though isn't it?

    "Gnome 3 isn't so bad. You can get around it's crapness by installing Cinnamon to get your desktop into a usable state." is what I keep hearing.

    Really, it's not a great testimonial to Windows 8 that you have to install some plugin additions to get what you have in Windows 7. What's the point?

  2. Leedos
    WTF?

    They just needed to put it a "Start Slice"....

    Like many others, I have no problem with the new Start screen. Searching for the app I need by pressing a few letters works well. I like using the keyboard.

    My problem is with the way you are required to move the mouse to the corner, then click on start. The desktop slice on the right of the taskbar works as it did in Windows 7. Why didn't they just put in a "Start Slice?" There is now a chunk of the taskbar on the left side that is completely useless. They just left a gap there that doesn't do anything. All people want is the ability to click something where the start button was. If you have used Windows since 1995, you would think you should be able to click something in that gap, but clicking there does absolutely nothing at all. I don't see how moving the mouse to the bottom left corner, then clicking Start is more production than just being able to click on the slice to accomplish the same thing. This becomes more of an issue when RDP-ing into a Window 8 / Server 2012 box that is not running full screen.

    With Server 2012 and Windows 8 already RTM'd our only hope to correct this flaw is that maybe they will come to their senses and issue a "Shell Update". Just like they did when IE 4 came out and added some great new features to the Windows shell. While they are at it, go ahead and add the Shutdown command to the new Start button's right-click menu. Done.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: They just needed to put it a "Start Slice"....

      Why click anyway? I find it infinitely more efficient to use the Windows key or the Windows key + Q. Presuming your keyboard has them of course.

      1. Leedos

        Re: They just needed to put it a "Start Slice"....

        I use the Windows key all the time. Like I said, it's more of a problem when using RDP to connect. The windows button on my keyboard is not mapped to the remote machine, unless I'm running in full screen. Sure that can be changed in the remote desktop client, but you are missing the point. Why is there dead space on the left of the task bar that has no use?

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: They just needed to put it a "Start Slice"....

          What dead space? There is the same size margin to the side of the left most icon as there is to the right of the clock. Hover over them and you will see how big the "dead space" actually is.

          1. Leedos
            Megaphone

            Re: They just needed to put it a "Start Slice"....

            "What dead space? There is the same size margin to the side of the left most icon as there is to the right of the clock. Hover over them and you will see how big the "dead space" actually is."

            The difference is that the space on the right has a function, the one to the left doesn't. You click the space on the right and the desktop is shown. If you try the same thing with the space on the left and nothing happens. Get it now?

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: They just needed to put it a "Start Slice"....

              Yes but if that ~16 pixel wide block was not there then it would look uneven.

  3. mark l 2 Silver badge

    I am sure microsoft will re-enable with start menu with Windows 8 SP1 when they realise that Stardock is the top selling program on the windows 8 app store

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      What would be the point? That in its self will prove that people don't mind enough about the start menu "issue" to stop them buying Windows 8.

      1. Len Goddard

        People don't buy windows 8

        I doubt that many people will rush out and buy a copy of win8 to upgrade an existing machine. Most copies will be sold with new hardware, particularly once MS puts the screws on vendors to stop them installing win 7.

        I'm actually having a hard time remembering when I last upgraded a copy of windows on existing hardware. I think it was when I went from 3.1 to Win 95. Not a happy experience. M$ does not have a good record for allowing upgrade-in-place, preserving installed apps and configuration options. Unlike my work Ubuntu system, which was upgraded every six months from 5.10 to 11.10 with more or less no problems.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: People don't buy windows 8

          Last time I tried to update Ubuntu it locked up mid-install due to there being a known serious bug on systems with my (very common) particular graphics card. Alas the bug was found after the code freeze (but before release) so they decided to let it go out without even a note on the download page.

          People have differing experiences.

          1. This post has been deleted by its author

  4. MissingSecurity

    I've been using it off an on with VMware.

    In all honesty, I don't think this is a revolutionary change for the good but I think people will get over it. It basically feels like my desktop PC has become this horrid system designed for cloud based environments, you know where everything is throw into the void and some NOSQL-like system is used to sort out irrelevant information.and all I'm suppose to do is click on web based buttons so it feels like functionality exists.

    In reality though the back end isn't much different than Win 7 and I think if they just would have put the tiles to basic functionality such as Computer, Control Panel, etc. Thing would make a little more sense. Though they seem to want to challenge users into finding out that you need to right click, select all programs, than find your application, than manual pin the things.

    I can relate the "Start" menu for use with launching applications and such, but what is really going to be a pain is if non metro app won't launch from the start screen and if you need to manage two separate task bars. I know Linux has already gone through the wave of disappointing GUI "improvements", but I would ask, if everyone's doing it, why not go with them?

  5. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    It's less of an issue if you...

    Just install Linux or Mac OSX. Neither of them are susceptible to hacking, Viruses or Trojans like M$ is.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: It's less of an issue if you...

      Troll or drastically misinformed?

      3...2....1...

      VOTE!

  6. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Windows 8 is pretty good....

    ... if you use something like Classic Shell. I've got Classic Shell set to go straight to the desktop, add the start menu and turn off those bloody annoying corner hotspots.

    Once you do this, Windows 8 is pretty good.

    It's a bit like an old girlfriend of mine. Great back end and performs rather well but in need of a lot of cosmetic attention to make the face acceptable. Classic Shell provides a full coating of Maybelline to cover up the blemishes.

    1. John M. Drescher

      Re: Windows 8 is pretty good....

      I do that but this does not take care of all the ugly square windows. They may now call Aero cheesy but to me removing it is very frustrating.

  7. John 104
    FAIL

    Windows 3?

    Seems to me that this is just windows 3 all over again. We have a bunch of icons on the desktop with bigger borders around them and in order to do any systems work, you have to dig to get to things. Fail.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Windows 3?

      Try pressing the first letter of the application you want. You don't even have to open the start menu yourself.

  8. William Hinshaw

    The fuss is licensing for the enterprise these tools. While free to the general user that isn't typically true for the enterprise.

    So yeah still no sale on Win 8

  9. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Application support...

    My issue is with some applications still remaining incompatible with Windows 7 as there was a quick succession of OS'. More mainstream applications have caught up, but i keep XP on a partition for the apps that only function on that platform. With the roll out of a 3rd OS in 6 years, developers are going to begin to adjust to the incumbent OS and drop support for redundant ones.

    1. El Andy

      Re: Application support...

      If your applications don't work on anything newer than Windows XP, maybe it's time to go out and get new applications. It's clear you're dealing with (effectively) abandonware at this point and you'll probably be much better off getting software that's being actively developed (and security patched!) Don't give your business to developers who clearly don't care about their users.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Application support...

        Not as simple as "go out and get new applications". Again these are niche applications and as I stated, most mainstream ones operate without bugs. I take your point on poor development. However most of my incompatible apps are freeware with no better alternative.

        I wouldn't be so concerned if the end of support for XP wasn't imminent, resulting in a complete migration to Win 7, which still isn't completely ironed out. XP has it's issues, but for compatibility it's second to none.

  10. arrbee
    Facepalm

    looks familiar

    I've been looking at that start screen trying to think what it reminded me of - its Lotus Notes.

  11. johnwerneken

    startmenux - startbuttonx

    StartmenuX and startbuttonX from Ordinarysoft do the job well, for win8 DP CP RP and RTM. http://www.startmenux.com/ or http://www.ordinarysoft.com/

  12. Anonymous Coward
    Megaphone

    Or...

    ... you can stick with windows 7 and use other operating systems, such as Linux or MacOSx :)

    Unless your going to use the touch aspect of windows 8, I can see little to no point in the upgrade right now.

    Windows XP, after a decade, has only recently been overtaken by Windows 7 in terms of desktop market share.

    Short of windows 8 offering a significant speed boost over windows 7, why bother?

    There's some history here too:

    win95 - reasonable

    win98 - terrible, took win98se to improve core os

    winXP, based on 2k - excellent

    windows Vista - terrible

    windows 7 - excellent

    windows 8 - ??

    Completely bullshit view, I'll admit, but I can see a pattern - every other microsoft release is a bit of a dog.

    ... Or ...

    You can just downvote this post and tell me I'm talking out my ass...

    1. Ambivalous Crowboard
      Paris Hilton

      TIFI

      Win95 - reasonable

      Win98 - great

      Win98 SE - superior

      WinME - awful

      Win2k - reasonable

      WinXP - great

      WinXP SP2 - superior

      WinVista - awful

      Win7 - reasonable

      Win7 SP1 - great

      Win8 - no, wait, that doesn't work...

    2. mechBgon
      Meh

      Re: Or...

      They do have some good security advancements under the hood that Win7 isn't likely to get. High-entropy ASLR and declarative permissions for apps, for example. Enhanced Protected Mode on IE also looks promising.

      I don't like the new I-can't-make-up-my-mind UI, but if I can use one of the utilities mentioned in the article to get a fair approximation of the traditional Windows UI, then I'm interested. I think Microsoft will eventually recognize their two-faced UI as the Mother Of All Goof-ups, and trot out an option pack that basically does what these third-party fixes do: let the customer decide for themselves.

  13. Sean Timarco Baggaley
    WTF?

    Jesus Christ on toast.

    Microsoft have been fiddling with the "Start Menu" since Windows 98. Almost every release of Windows after Windows 95 has made some changes to it. Even the world 'Start' has been removed from the button, a change that happened in Windows Vista.

    That screen with the tiles? That IS the bloody Start Menu! All Windows 8 has done is remove a completely unnecessary button as everyone knows where the damned menu is by now. I think 17 years is plenty of time to learn, don't you?

    For those complaining about having to remember keyboard shortcuts: that's how ALL GUIs are intended to be used!

    You start out as a newbie, mousing around and bumping into new features, learning them, and gradually becoming familiar with the system. See how Windows add underscores to a letter in each menu title, and has similar underscores under a letter in each menu command? That system—the "ALT+F, O" for accessing the "File > Open" command—dates right back to the days when MS-DOS was still king. It's the "Common User Access" standard, created by IBM.

    In addition to that CUA system, Windows also supports direct shortcuts, like "CTRL+O" (for the same "File > Open" command).

    Apple never adopted the CUA standard, so the direct shortcuts are all it has. On the other hand, Apple's keyboards have always had three modifiers, rather than just the CTRL and ALT keys found on pre-Windows 95 keyboards. (In addition, Macs have always let you re-bind any menu shortcut, in any application, to any keyboard combination you desire. Yes, even before OS X; this has been a standard feature of Macs since the 1980s.)

    You are SUPPOSED to learn these! Mastering keyboard shortcuts is the key to getting the most out of a GUI. If you have been using computers for years, but are still using the mouse for everything, you are doing it wrong. End of story. Seriously, there are university textbooks on this and everything. It really is a known science, not some dark art. This isn't just how Microsoft design their GUIs, it also informs Apple's own GUI design choices.

    Oh yes: the reason for that "ModernUI" interface and all the focus on multi-touch and trackpads? The mouse is dead.. Kiss the WIMP / desktop metaphor goodbye, because 75% of all Macs and Windows PCs sold in the last few years have NOT been traditional desktops with separate displays, mice and keyboards, but laptops. With trackpads Almost all laptops released these past couple of years support multi-touch gestures too now, although Windows 7 never made much use of them. Windows 8, on the other hand, does.

    If you have one of those traditional desktop systems—some of you here have even mentioned multiple displays—then you'd better get used to being a niche market. And not at some distant time in the future, but now. Today. You literally aren't the target market any more.

    1. Ambivalous Crowboard
      Facepalm

      Re: Jesus Christ on toast.

      You're clearly an idiot.

      So you're saying that every school in the UK (possibly the world?) is a niche market? All the computers that the kids use to get their work done are niche devices, and are obsolete?

      Are you saying that the vast majority of employers with fleets of business desktops (multi-monitor desktops at that) are about to fall off the face of technology acceptance?

      You, sir, have drank too much of the kool-aid (whatever that is, but I'm sure you're down with that too).

      1. Sean Timarco Baggaley
        FAIL

        Re: Jesus Christ on toast.

        "So you're saying that every school in the UK (possibly the world?) is a niche market?"

        Yes. They even have their own dedicated suppliers, who specialise solely in the education sector. Ever heard of Research Machines? Schools and colleges are almost the definition of a niche market.

        "Are you saying that the vast majority of employers with fleets of business desktops (multi-monitor desktops at that) are about to fall off the face of technology acceptance?"

        You can plug external monitors into a laptop just as easily as you can plug one into a desktop.

        However, anyone who claims that the "vast majority" of employers have "multi-monitor desktops" clearly hasn't seen the inside of the vast majority of office buildings.

    2. WylieCoyoteUK

      Re: Jesus Christ on toast.

      So lots of laptops are sold. big deal.

      Most people hate trackpads, one of the first laptop add-ons purchased is a mouse.

      In businesses and schools the desktop is still king. Many businesses users have multiple displays because they have been proven to increase productivity.

      As for getting people to use keyboard shortcuts, about 50% of users still use a mouse to move between fields on the screen, and click OK, even after being shown how to use tab and enter, they use the mouse clicks for cut and paste instead of ctrl-c ctrl-v.

      The trouble with keyboard shortcuts is lack of consistency in applications. i.e. apart from some basic ones, they don't always work or they are different in different applications, trust me, I train people all the time on a wide range of software from different sources.

      1. Sean Timarco Baggaley

        Re: Jesus Christ on toast.

        "Most people hate trackpads, one of the first laptop add-ons purchased is a mouse."

        Ah, anecdata plucked from thin air. I haven't used a mouse in over a year now and I sure as hell don't miss it.

        People who "hate" trackpads don't actually hate them. They just hate change. Their loss. Especially if they're then going out and buying an accessory that offers them less control and more RSI.

        "As for getting people to use keyboard shortcuts, about 50% of users still use a mouse to move between fields on the screen, and click OK, even after being shown how to use tab and enter, they use the mouse clicks for cut and paste instead of ctrl-c ctrl-v."

        So this "50%" of people you claim (without any sources) still use a mouse. So what? Their inefficiency and unwillingness to learn how to use a tool that is part of their job is hardly Apple or Microsoft's fault. And, do note, both companies still support the point-and-click option too.

        "The trouble with keyboard shortcuts is lack of consistency in applications..."

        Apple have very strict guidelines about GUIs in applications. Your app can even be rejected from their App Stores if you fail to adhere to them. Microsoft also have a series of guidelines, though they're nowhere near as anal about them.

        On Windows, CTRL+P is usually "Print", CTRL+O is "(File) Open"; CTRL+S is "Save", and so on. (On OS X, just swap the "CTRL" with "CMD".) Need to change a Windows application's settings? "Tools > Options..." On OS X, it's the "Preferences..." command in the menu named after the application itself—shortcut: (CMD+comma key).

        Good application developers, who don't treat support as a primary revenue stream, do go for consistency, although Microsoft themselves do like to try new ideas every now and then. (Their "ribbon" UI is far, far better than the previous icon-heavy toolbars, even for Office veterans like myself who remember using MS Word for DOS.)

        The File, Edit, Tools, Windows and Help menus are usually handled pretty consistently as those are menus Visual Studio will often create for you if you use one of its application project templates. If you opt for the Ribbon UI, you can make your application fit that model consistently too.

        There are exceptions though: many graphics tools, like 3d studio max, Maya, etc., are cross-platform and either roll their own GUI and pretend the OS's native one doesn't exist, or they use the godawful Qt library. (I sincerely hope Qt dies a horrible, painful, slow death. It's responsible for some truly awful UIs.) If your work relies on such applications, I can understand the frustration, but nothing Microsoft can do will change that, so Windows 8's GUI changes are an irrelevance in such arguments.

        I've also used enough GNU / Linux applications to know nobody in that community can even spell "consistency", let alone apply it.

        1. spiny norman

          Re: Jesus Christ on toast.

          >> "Most people hate trackpads, one of the first laptop add-ons purchased is a mouse."

          >> Ah, anecdata plucked from thin air. I haven't used a mouse in over a year now and I sure as hell don't miss it.

          >> People who "hate" trackpads don't actually hate them. They just hate change. Their loss. Especially if they're then going out and buying an accessory that offers them less control and more RSI.

          Your response to "anecdata" is more of the same, based on your personal preference, and an unproven assertion about other people. Unless you got it from a survey of 120 Marie Claire readers, which I suppose is possible.

  14. banjomike
    FAIL

    It is still damned ugly...

    ... and was designed and coloured by chimps.

  15. Joerg
    FAIL

    In a couple years we will have Windows9 and Metro/ModernUI dead.

    Metro/ModernUI will die a quick death.

    People already rejected the awful unusable childish unproductive Metro/ModernUI on WindowsPhone7.x which only got 2-3% of market share.

    No matter how much Microsoft marketing dept machine with its lies tries to spin it up... the world doesn't want Metro/ModernUI.

    And so it's even dumber and just plain lame what Microsoft is doing with Metro/ModernUI and Windows8

    They are completely out of mind.

    Let's hope Ballmer and all the hacks behind Windows8 Metro/ModernUI big mistake will be fired forever as soon as Windows8 collapses and it's a clear failure in the next months.

    Microsoft will have to do a huge U-turn this time.. while Vista had issues but was usable.. Windows8 it's an absolute mess due to Metro/ModernUI but the unreliable integrated software-RAID (disk-pool) implementation too.

    Windows9 will need to be written mostly from scratch on its core elements to clean up the mess the marketing hacks did with Windows8. Metro/ModernUI will need to disapper quickly. And all the mess done to APIs and SDKs and Visual Studio will need to be fixed too. And maybe .NET will need to be made as a new universal version compatible backwards with the oldest versions for once.

    True engineers, programmers, developers and designers will need to be put at work at Microsoft once again just like it happened with Windows7 after the Vista failure.

  16. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Grumble grumble

    I don't like icons all over the desktop and I don't like icons filling up the taskbar. I like the jump lists and search field in the Win 7 Start Menu - which are not seen until required, but only a short mouse movement and a single click away. And I don't like having to move the mouse back and forth from one side of the screen to the other and/or the top to the bottom more than once in a while. What I like on the desktop are wallpapers, not clutter.

    Windows 8 is foremost an attempt by Ballmer to herd everyone in the world into Windows Store, which when I install Windows is one of the very first things I disable and delete; one of the main reasons I want editions with Group Policy.

    All these years we've had lots and lots of users who don't mind adverts everywhere. Windows 8 is for that mindset, people who live in shit and think its gravy.

  17. Nuno trancoso

    Plan

    Manage to get bosses help into evaluating Win8's "user readiness". Wait for the hissy fit and the "will NOT roll this out". Pat your yourself in your BOFH back and tick another item on the todo list.

    @someguy that said IT people are awkward in that we hate change, dig head out. We just hate change that bring no benefits at all and instead brings (more) problems. Fixing what wasn't broken and finding solutions for problems that didn't exist is a waste of two resources already in short supply, time and money.

    Time to bring Gates back and to show "the monkey" the door, me thinks...

    1. Martin Howe
      Thumb Up

      Re: Plan

      "Fixing what wasn't broken and finding solutions for problems that didn't exist is a waste of two resources already in short supply, time and money."

      This.

  18. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Program Manager

    "I like the way you can easily organise applications into thematic groups. You click the little dash in the bottom right corner to get a zoomed view, then you can name groups of icons and drag entire groups around the screen."

    Yes. I enjoyed the funcationality of having application icons in thematic groups, being able to make that group regular sized or full screen (or even iconed!), and being able to drag that group about the screen.

    Oh how I miss Windows 3.11.

    1. Piro Silver badge

      Re: Program Manager

      To be fair, Windows 3.11 with Program Manager is like an improved version of Metro, because you can drag the windows arbitrarily, change the icons for the shortcuts right there in the interface, and so on.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Program Manager

        Good point well made Piro.

        You can also install Calmira - which gives a Start menu!!!!

  19. Mr Turkey
    Alien

    OK, so I've been using windows 8 for a couple of weeks to see what all the fuss is about and here is my view on TIFKAM.

    If you think about it, its actually exactly the same as windows 7...... hold on I hear you say how can that be (I'm sure I'm about to get massively down voted) but with a little bit of thought you'll see what I mean.

    Take the start menu that appears when you press the start button on W7 and previous version of windows (obviously those which had this functionality).

    Now hold that in your mind and imagine it twice as big......OK got that, maybe that seems quite useful because you can get more info on the start menu for other information (we'll get to what the extra information might be later on, look out for **)

    Now this is the hard bit imagine you made the start menu as big as the screen........ that's right you would have the new windows start menu in windows 8!!!!

    Once you realise that the new windows 8 start screen is just a full screen version of the previous start menu's (you see, its actually exactly the same as it was previously just tweeked)

    The next thing to think about is when you start W7/XP/2K3/2K didn't you just have a lovely old time sat there using all the programs as you logged on which were automatically running for you...... no that's right none of the user based app tend to start when you log on.

    So imagine if what Microsoft did is gave provided a big list of applications to choose from when you logged on and so you just clicked on the one you wanted from a selection on the full screen start menu

    ** Plus when you logged on you get all your info about applications which are running on the machine in little mini windows giving you a overview of what you might decide to run first, maybe you can see that an important email has come in, or there's a news story on the BBC or whatever website which takes your fancy.

    This is my take on the way Microsoft have redesigned windows 8 and in actual fact I really like it. I used to use search nearly all the time in windows 7 to get what I wanted, less clicking and taking my hands away from the keyboard when I typing or doing the productive side of working on the computer, in windows 8 its there for you. I've actually found that I can move around much faster with windows 8. All that is needed is an open mind to try it out.

    Is it perfect, clearly not are there things I would change some yes. Is it actually very useable I would say yes and I think broadly a positive change.

    Anyway cue all the down votes.........................

  20. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Start Button imitations

    It's a shame (although inevitable) that people have developed applications like this.

    Yes it gives you a choice to go back to using a start menu, but it also means people afraid of change will remain that way.

    It may also get confusing for users who buy a PC that may eventually be bundled with this. If they come to use another PC without this type of App installed they won't really know what's going on.

    I think Dell used a Stardock application when Vista was released which was re-branded as "Dell Dock". Some less informed people who saw this assumed it was just part of Vista.

    I'd always encourage people to try something before dismissing it. People who are afraid of change will never try things like Linux or OS X either.

    I know some people genuinely don't like it, but there are so many people who haven't even tried it properly.

  21. kwv-dc
    Thumb Down

    A Truly Ugly Desktop

    A Truly Ugly Desktop .... wake me up when Win 9 is announced or MS is bankrupt, which even come first.

  22. Steven Roper

    The Start Menu isn't the problem

    with Windows 8 as far as I'm concerned, and I'm amazed that so many are focused on this non-issue than the REAL problem with Windows 8.

    That is, this forced full-screen app bullshit (no multiple onscreen windows anymore) and the concomitant loss of multitasking. This is the BIGGEST STEP BACKWARD I HAVE EVER SEEN THE IT INDUSTRY MAKE. Now I don't know why this doesn't stick out with you people, but in my case the last full-screen-app-only, non-multitasking computer I used was called a COMMODORE 64.

    I've moved on since then, chaps, and I have no intention of going back to the Commodore 64 way of doing things, now or ever. Quite why MS think this is a better way of doing things is beyond belief. It has convinced me that the entire computing world has gone completely and utterly insane.

    I very often have multiple windows open on my desktop while working - a chat program, a notepad window, a calculator, a couple of explorer windows, etc. etc. According to what I'm reading, with Windows 8 I'll no longer be able to do that. From the sounds of it I'll have to be constantly flicking back and forth between fullscreen apps, with only one visible at a time. I mean, wasting a full screen on a calculator, for example? That's going to fuck me up so badly that I'll be avoiding Windows 8 on the strength of that alone.

    Fuck the start menu, fuck the taskbars, why you lot aren't screaming about the loss of multiple on-screen windows and multitasking has got me stumped!

    1. Mr Turkey

      Re: The Start Menu isn't the problem

      With the full screen TIFKAM apps you can have a maximum of two at a time by putting the mouse cursor at the top of the screen and dragging it either to the left or right. I agree this side of it is an interesting one and what the designers have done here is take some statistics about the most effective way of working. I saw they cited a report which stated that when multitasking the optimal maximum number of 'tasks' is not more than two. So they went ahead using this point to restrict the number of TIFKAM apps which can be displayed simultaneously, however what they didn't notice was the flaw in the conclusion they drew by not realising it is possible to work on a single task using information (multiple windows) from more many places and certainly way more than two sources. I think this is a real shame that they couldn't actually think about the logic of what they were doing here and realise this very clear and simple distinction between multi-tasking and working from more than one information source on a single task.

  23. Bruce Ordway

    Forget the start menu

    >in a couple of years we will look back and wonder why there was so

    >much fuss

    I still haven't gotten over the "ribbon" in Office.

  24. Roland6 Silver badge

    It does look like Microsoft has really messed up with Windows 8

    Reading the article and the discussion - particularly those comments of the form "I want to do some simple and necessary task but can't work out how" and get a response "simple just point mouse at x and perform a masonic handshake on the keyboard", I'm left wondering what will the average person who buy's a new computer from PC World et al make of all this? particularly as their last computer was probably purchased prior to 2006 and runs the original OS (possibly Vista, but more likely 2000/XP) and application suite it came installed with (Office 2000/XP)...

    I expect there will be many more failures, as for example if the shutdown option is not obvious they will just turn it off at the plug ...

    As for those who go on about how wonderful change is and all those stick-in-the-muds will get used to the new interface and ways of working etc etc.; I note that all of you miss the fact that you will still be using a QWERTY keyboard and mouse with Windows 8!

    Does any one know if it is possible to have a clean desktop (ie. no icons displayed, start bar auto-hide) with Metro?

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