Longtime gay rights campaigner Google has kicked off a new effort to "legalise love" in countries that criminalise homosexuality. At a Global LGBT Workplace Summit in London late last week, the web giant's European head of diversity and inclusion, Mark Palmer-Edgecumbe, reportedly outlined the initiative. According to Gay Star …
Lovelly though it is that Google are defending equal rights (and I'm all for equal rights), I think they miss the point that different cultures have different opinions and that's the whole point of having different countries. If every country has the exact same beliefs then the phrase "if you don't like it you can leave" becomes meaningless.
Surely what we should campaign for instead is to ship all of the homophobes to these countries and all the gays out of them, giving us a nice tidy world where everyone is happy. This is working well for Brighton, so why not do it on a global scale? (appologies to Brighton, that was uncalled for!)
the phrase "if you don't like it you can leave" becomes meaningless
It is not meaningless, it is moronic.
And you miss the point that Google too are entitled to their opinion - Google is a multinational, and this is being done by and for Google employees who live and work in those countries.
Separating the gays and the homophobes
But where do you put the gay homopobes? There are plenty of them.
Re: Separating the gays and the homophobes
"But where do you put the gay homopobes? There are plenty of them."
Back in the closet. That's where they all are, right?
Re: Separating the gays and the homophobes
I would be more impressed
If they didn't funnel a big slice of their revenues through Singapore so as to enjoy the low tax rate. If they were really serious about this then why not move their Asian operations elsewhere?
Given by some of the /hilarious/ jokes on here, we should look a little closer to home when considering dragging people kicking and screaming into the 21st century.
Oh my aching sides.
More than use lip-service.
If the numbers of Google employees in the parade at Pride London last weekend was anything to go by, this is not a marketing exercise.
Homophobia, anti-gay bigotry, and anti-gay discrimination are alive and well in the UK and the US. When will Google be starting their anti-homophobia ads in these two countries?
They are fighting laws that actively make being gay illegal, or legally allow/encourage discrimination. The UK does not have such laws, just as we have laws promoting gender equality... how people treat each other is a separate matter once the legal issues have been resolved.
How is that the UK doesn't have gay marriage and that the US government and that the vast majority of US states don't recognize gay marriage or even civil unions? Gay marriage is being fought tooth and nail by Xtians in both the UK and the US. Many US hospitals prevent the life partners of gay people to visit them in the ER or intensive care because they are neither blood relatives or married spouses -- even if they are in a civil union.
As a transgendered woman I applaud any initiative to strive for LGBT human rights anywhere in the world.
It’s a huge task though. Even here in the UK, I stand a better than average chance of being ‘made redundant’ when I inform my employer that I am transgendered and will be transitioning in the near future; thereby joining a large number of transgendered people on the unemployment register.
True, but ...
those sort of attitudes are slowly being pushed down the chain to the more 'uggish' employers - never seen an obvious gay or trans at my any of my local tyre fitters for instance (not many brown faces either for that matter). My (large) employer has a very rigorous and proactive anti-discrimination policy, because they lose talented potential employees otherwise.
I know a trans with similar experiences, but the same could have been said about gay people 20 years ago, and black people 40 years ago. It just takes some people (Sun readers, mostly) a little time to catch up.
As has been said, just be grateful we don't live in a backward east European or Asian country (or, god forbid, the Bible Belt in the US), but even there many people don't share the views of the extremists and loudmouths.
Pining for a drink (on antibiotics, harrumph).
Likewise, agree Google are to be applauded for drawing attention to these examples of antediluvian attacks on basic human rights around the world.
I don't need to tell you but transgender issues are very different to the rest of LGBT largely I think because a lot of people know gay or lesbian people through their work or social lives but transgender is much less commonplace, more diverse, so to most people its unfamiliar ground except through media caricature. For what its worth, from personal knowledge expect you'll find a reasonable degree of tolerance in the UK as far as employment goes.
However the question of human rights such as the 'right' to officially reassign legal gender birth certificate/passport etc. m2f or f2m is much more problematic I'd rather think we'd be better served by a more open minded society where trans is accepted in its own right. Not a popularist view but though I may be middle-aged boringly straight male myself, its a view formed by trying to understand the experiences of friends.
Might sound harsh but its not just about ignorance in the world at large, theres a lot among those directly involved. One acquaintance who has completed social transition to female lifestyle and work but refused access to hormonal program on NHS is now buying the drugs directly. All without having even so much as spoken to anyone who has been through the procedures to understand what its really about, she really believes its a route to being totally female.
So not convinced in this instance Google is doing more than following what it thinks western people want to hear on trans.
I don't know why they'd criticise Singapore, it's full of trannies...
sex evolution, what comes after gay ?
Yep. They will forbid conventional sex soon as "too aggressive" or "not democratic " because someone must be dominant in actual act. And hey, wait till intelligent robots will come out…
Oh good grief
I should have expected an outburst of Daily Mailism around here. Jeez, please be less predictable.
As to the protoclarkson ranting on about the lack of a role for homosexual behaivior in evolutionary biology, many special engage in same sex acts, whether or not they pairbond with a same sex mate. Actually, "hetrosexual that performs homosexual acts" is remarkably common in other species, unencumbered by the brain damage of religion and the like.
(..and sounds quite fun, I might add, ahem)
Anyway, far be it from me to interrupt, if you're summoning Melanie Philips, I hope you used fresh chalk for the pentagram.
You really did a great job on the picture. You couldn't find an even more tasteless, non representative photo?
Staring at the calendar on my wall...
...I have to say the comments here are most entertaining.
I should point out that homosexuality exists in practically all facets of nature and there is evidence that it has existed prior to the creation of all world religions. Humans are the only species that seem to have a problem with it and those problems are religion based.
I am Native-American. I am spiritual. I am at one with Nature as I do my best to communicate and co-exist peacefully with it. My Native-American spiritual roots go far back beyond any organized religion today. Prior to "white" contamination, two-spirit persons (gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgendered) were highly respected and revered individuals in our communities. I find it fascinating when some use their own designer religion as a tool to make them feel superior or better than others, and I find it equally fascinating when they use it to condone their own hatred or ignorance towards those who they deem unfit or unnatural basing it all entirely on scriptures that for all we know were written to try to control and brainwash the masses in to subservience.
I do not hate christians, muslims, etc. The vast majority that I personally know are very loving, compassionate, caring and open-minded people. I'm happy that they're happy in their attempts to peacefully co-exist with one another.
I giggle when I hear the likes of the U.S. based "religious" Phelps family speak and demonstrate publicly. They are the modern-day sideshow freaks and I thank The Creator for them because they are helping hold a mirror up to everyone's face to show exactly how ugly religion can make you. Intentional or not, they are single handedly a powerful driving force in changing the attitudes of the public to actually be more sympathetic of gay rights.
I love watching people squabble. I find stupidity to be highly entertaining.
Re: Staring at the calendar on my wall...
I rather expect that rape predates established religions as well. Does it follow that rape is okay?
Have to say that, given the subject matter, Zoopy's making the most objective and rational arguments round here at the moment. Also, (s)he's managing it without being abusive or resorting to stereotypes.
Thank you Zoopy for your contributions today.
Re: Rational arguments
Wohoo! I'm awesome!
Re: Rational arguments
A shame, then, that he has expended so much effort in defending the indefensible.
Re: Rational arguments
But that's my point. In saying what you did you prejudge the entire issue. In fact it's not indefensible, it's rationally solid.
And if you read the comments carefully you'll discover a nuanced, generous, tolerant attitude towards all people, regardless of their particular points of view.
Re: Rational arguments
In what way is it "indefensible"
In my country, gay civil unions are totally acceptable even down to the inevitable arguing in court over who gets to keep the dog when it all goes bad.
That said our leftist media is constantly banging on about "gay marriage equality", whatever that means.
This is all well and good, but I have yet to find a gay activiist who is able to explain to me what extra, actual, rights "gay marriage equality" would provide that are not currently provided by civil unions.
What the entire argument seems to be about is redefining the meaning of the word "marriage" so that it includes homosexuals.
Re: Rational arguments
The right to say "I am married to...", "my husband", "my wife".
I CALL GOOGLE OUT on their feel good bullshit
If Google was so strong about rights and freedoms, they where the hell are they while theists are deliberately false flagging atheists in to oblivion? There is a false flagging WAR going on in YouTube and after all my e-mails to them ... they don't f-ing care that the freedom of speech is being obliterated on their own doorstep.
If Google can't even succeed at this, which is happening on their own soil, then they're only going to fail in their other endeavours.
If you want more information, then Agent Of Doubt is your man in the know - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=skqHSFLLtHo
Re: I CALL GOOGLE OUT on their feel good bullshit
Follow the link Mr/Mrs Coward. You will see, in the comments of AoD's link, just a handful of the people who had their accounts closed in the last week alone.
Long story short - there are a number of whacko theists who regard anything that disagrees with their view point as being blasphemy. They then "flag" other peoples videos under the tag, "hate speech" and after so many flaggings, the poor victims account gets closed, they lose their channel and all the videos they've uploaded on it.
All this is automatic and at the moment, there are no repercussions for the cowardly bas**rds who are doing this; ganging up and using sock accounts to deny people their rights to free speech.
I have written a letter to Google HQ, as this kind of attack on their home soil is way out of whack with what they are trying to do abroad. They've got a mess on their own doorstep that they should be cleaning up first.
And if you're from the press and want to pick up this story, then AoD will probably not be adverse to talking with you, as this has been going on for some considerable time.
the homos google, when are you going to start a pay your fair share of taxes campaign?
"Gay at Facebook" (well, Facebook Europe realistically - I doubt the social group had the cash) was the title sponsor of Dublin Pride this year, it having been Google for a number of years beforehand. Microsoft also had involvement as per usual. There definitely seems to be a tech industry gay-off in the offing.
Now, if only I could find a firm that pays a premium for staff who'll never want paternity leave...
It's not evil when we say so.
Cultural imperialism is not evil. True or false?
Who will defend the right of children to be raised in a natural family?
Will Google and Bing defend equally vigorously the rights of those individuals unfortunate enough to have been born with a predilection to paedophilia, bestiality or necrophilia?
Re: It's not evil when we say so.
What is a "natural family", and when was there ever a "right" for children to be brought up in one? The idea of the "natural family" is cultural, and changes across time, class, and borders.
What is the problem with bestiality and necrophilia? No consent issues are raised (assuming the dead body wasn't made so by the necrophiliac!)
Gosh, that took a remarkably long time
"Will Google and Bing defend equally vigorously the rights of those individuals unfortunate enough to have been born with a predilection to paedophilia, bestiality or necrophilia?"
There always has to be a posting in these sorts of threads by someone comparing homosexuality to <insert assorted evils here>, either because they are too stupid to work out the difference, or they are simply homophobes trying to push their agenda by smear to others too stupid or willfully ignorant to work out the difference. Utterly predictable, but refreshingly uncommon around here nowadays.
The world is full of laws against loving relationships for heterosexuals, notably the notion of 'adultery'. Come on google, love isn't only for LGBT!
Re: Legalise Love
Seriously ! I had the idea that adultery was illegal - when I was all of five. When are you going to grow up?
Re: Legalise Love
Adultery isn't actually "illegal", it's just simply evidence for divorce in a court case if the couple chooses to pursue it.
Re: Legalise Love
In some parts of the world adultery attracts the death penalty. Death by stoning has been reported in recent years e.g. in Iran. In the western world, true the law only tends to apply financial penalties in divorce suits and similar. More complex than the 5 year olds comment above.
We all trust Google ?
So let me get this right, people around here are entirely happy that a huge American corporation is using it's weight to push it's own view of morality onto other countries ?
You're all happy with that idea ?
You'd be happy if Google started putting up stuff about Israel's human rights record ?
...or pictures of women stoned to death under Moslem laws ?
Joyful at the idea of pointing out that nearly all rapes by priests are homosexual rapes ?
Given that a large % of Americans believe in some form of Creationism, you'd be happy if Google supported that ?
If you're OK with corporate activism be clear that it will not always be for things you support.
I personally have no problem with Google supporting gay rights, personally I think it will have zero effect since the reason that Gays are persecuted in some countries is because the majority of people in those places are OK with it. No government can long do things that the majority of its population regard as bad, independent of whether it is as democratic as Sweden or as oppressive as Syria, in fact dictators are at least as populist as any politician trying to get re-elected.
Re: We all trust Google ?
"You'd be happy if Google started putting up stuff about Israel's human rights record ?" Yes - oh, yes! It is about time.
"...or pictures of women stoned to death under Moslem laws ?" Yes.
"Joyful at the idea of pointing out that nearly all rapes by priests are homosexual rapes ?" Yes.
"Given that a large % of Americans believe in some form of Creationism, you'd be happy if Google supported that ? " Absolutely not!
Why the difference? The first three are reportable issues regarding the oppression of people, and there is a chance of getting to the facts. The last one is about something that flies in the face of facts, and which is used to oppress people. Worlds of difference, don't you think?
What so many keep doing trying to compare gay coupes to pedophilia and bestiality and rape keep leaving out is, two consenting adults. End of story, not victims, not animals, not corpses, not children.
Two consenting adults who love each other and want to live together for the rest of their lives. No Crime, no fraud, no hurting others. Two people who want the same lives as their neighbors and the same shreds of happiness than anyone else wants out of life.
And No, civil union does NOT carry the "same" privileges as marriage. I cannot speak for other counties, but most US states that have banned gay marriage have ALSO banned civil unions as well. Some have gone so far as to ban you from leaving your own estate to your same sex partner. As apparently leaving your money to the church is perfectly reasonable. But leaving it to your partner is a "benefit of marriage" This is not a defense of marriage, it is a religiously oriented attack on citizens.
You don't know how few rights you have till the person you love is in the hospital and unconscious, and you are not allowed to visit because you are not "family". I've been there. We owned the same home, we had been together for 15 years, but I wasn't allowed to know how she was doing, as I was not "family" and had "no interest". I wasn't even able to find out what hospital she had been moved to. "A nurses aide finally risked her job to tell me secretly or I might have had to wait days"
There is an organization in The US state of Minnesota called Project 515. It is named this for the 515 "and counting" ways gays and gay couples are discriminated against in Minnesota, We are a progressive state and Minneapolis has civil unions. Yet it is still as bad as that. Now they want to write the discrimination into our states constitution.
There are a lot of us. We are people, and we are "married" in all but the paperwork. And we will not go away no matter how many laws try to make our relationships illegal. Take our rights, take our legal protection, claim we or our relationships don't exist or are "disorders" and we will continue to exist. And in the end we will prevail. I'd like to believe than love is stronger than hate. And in the end that's what it is about. We love each other and the people who have nothing but hate want us gone, by legislation, by violence, or if nothing else by defining us out of existence. But in the end we have one argument they can never counter. We love each other. And they hate us for that. And in the end the hate and fear is all they have.