back to article Assange takes refuge in Ecuadorian embassy

Julian Assange has sought refuge in the Ecuadorian embassy in London and is seeking asylum over the decision by the UK courts to extradite him to Sweden. "This afternoon Mr Julian Assange arrived at the Ecuadorian Embassy seeking political asylum from the Ecuadorian government,' said the Ecuadorians in a statement. "As a …

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  1. Scorchio!!
    Angel

    Ah what a gentleman Assange is, as he once implied:

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/today/hi/today/newsid_9309000/9309320.stm

    "Not only does a gentleman not tell, not only does a gentleman like to talk about his private life, a gentleman certainly doesn't count."

    Do gentlemen run and thus cause their luvvie friends to lose the bail money they put up for him?

  2. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    You've been decoyed!

    This entire thread, with a few brief exceptions, reveals that far too many of us have fallen for the "poisoning the well" technique. Most of the comments and replies are, as far as I can see, completely off topic.

    Assange's personality, motives, and sexual mores can be argued indefinitely without ever reaching a definite conclusion. The only thing about him that is really important - to all of us - is that he was instrumental (along with many colleagues and helpers) - in opening up to the public gaze a huge trove of "secret" US government communications. Many of those reveal appalling acts, intentions, and attitudes that we need to know about, whether we are US citizens or not.

    Assange is a public benefactor, and we should not allow that fact to be hidden or confused.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: You've been decoyed!

      As the Swan of Avon put it,

      "Use every man after his desert, and who should 'scape whipping?"

    2. I ain't Spartacus Gold badge

      Re: You've been decoyed!

      "This entire thread, with a few brief exceptions, reveals that far too many of us have fallen for the "poisoning the well" technique. Most of the comments and replies are, as far as I can see, completely off topic."

      Yours certainly is. The topic (just to give you a clue) is: Bloke flees justice.

      Now admittedly, there is a side-topic. Is bloke being fitted up?

      There is a further topic for the amateur psychologists among us to pick over, which is: Is the guy genuinely paranoid, or is he just putting it on for PR? Obviously, as they say, paranoids have enemies too...

      "The only thing about him that is really important - to all of us - is that he was instrumental (along with many colleagues and helpers) - in opening up to the public gaze a huge trove of "secret" US government communications. Many of those reveal appalling acts, intentions, and attitudes that we need to know about, whether we are US citizens or not."

      Nope. The only important question here is: Is he a bit rapey?

      The one thing that isn't in doubt is that he left Sweden while under investigation, and his lawyers knew about it. I don't know if anyone's proved that he knew. That's the only relevant question here, because nothing else can happen while he's in Sweden. He can't be extradited without going through the British courts, and you have to add the Swedish ones to that as well. So all thoughts of evil US machinations can be dropped - other than the idea that maybe they set up 2 Swedish women to make these allegations. That sounds a bit unlikely to me, but the only way we get any chance of finding out if that's genuine, is if he complies with the law, and goes to Sweden to face his accusers.

      Finally, as for your bit about the importance of those leaks... Interesting, they certainly were. Important too. Massively newsworthy, and a good resource. Revealing? Not so much. The Afghanistan ones revealed nothing that we didn't know already. There were no incidents of civilian deaths on there that hadn't been in information revealed by NATO, even if not covered in the press. There was nothing shocking about that at all. The Taliban might have found the information on local intelligence sources useful, and may have killed a few of them, but that's pretty hard to prove either way.

      The diplomatic cables were a bit more revealing. But there was nothing shocking. Unless you're surprised that diplomats and governments don't always say in public what they're thinking in private. If that shocks you, I suggest you get out more.

      1. John G Imrie

        Re: You've been decoyed!

        The one thing that isn't in doubt is that he left Sweden while under investigation.

        Er no, he left Sweden after he was told he had no case to answer.

        1. I ain't Spartacus Gold badge

          Re: You've been decoyed!

          "The one thing that isn't in doubt is that he left Sweden while under investigation.

          Er no, he left Sweden after he was told he had no case to answer."

          John G Imrie,

          Wrong.

          It is a matter of record. His lawyer had to admit that he'd been in contact with the Swedish authorities, who'd asked him to arrange an interview with Assange.

          The lawyer had previously told a different story in both court and press, but had to admit the truth in court. Can't imagine it did much good for his credibility.

          As I said above I don't know if it's been proved that the lawyer made this known to Assange before he left the country. I quite carefully limited myself to what is known fact, rather than speculating.

          1. John G Imrie

            Re: You've been decoyed!

            It is a matter of record. His lawyer had to admit that he'd been in contact with the Swedish authorities, who'd asked him to arrange an interview with Assange.

            Ah I didn't know that, thanks for the update

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: You've been decoyed!

        "The topic (just to give you a clue) is: Bloke flees justice".

        That's funny; the headline I see reads

        "Assange takes refuge in Ecuadorian embassy"

        with a subhead of

        "Seeks asylum over extradition to Sweden"

    3. Velv
      FAIL

      Re: You've been decoyed!

      "wanna be in my gang" was a great song, and Gary Gliter was a great showman and singer. Doesn't mean he's a nice guy, as has already been proven in court.

      Wikileaks MAY have been acting in the public interest - that doesn't automatically make them good people.

      We have a legal system to protect the guilty from persecution - any additional charges will be subject to the same legal system, and attempting to subvert the course of justice is a crime in itself, something Assange is clearly guilty of attempting to do.

    4. nexsphil

      Re: You've been decoyed!

      Indeed. This board is crawling with fakes. The Reg and others will have to start doing something about shills and astroturfing, or their boards will become nothing more than idiotic matketing and propaganda platforms.

      1. I ain't Spartacus Gold badge

        Re: You've been decoyed!

        "Indeed. This board is crawling with fakes. The Reg and others will have to start doing something about shills and astroturfing, or their boards will become nothing more than idiotic matketing and propaganda platforms."

        nexsphill,

        Oh, do grow up.

        1. nexsphil

          Grow up

          Ok done. And.....nope, reality is still here.

          Pretending propaganda doesn't exist means you're either engaged in it yourself or are a cowardly delusional.

          1. I ain't Spartacus Gold badge

            Re: Grow up

            "Pretending propaganda doesn't exist means you're either engaged in it yourself or are a cowardly delusional."

            As I said. Grow up.

            Other people hold different opinions to you. This is normal. It is not necessarily a sign that they are stupid, ignorant, shills or in the pay of foreign governments. Sometimes it is because you are wrong. Other times it is because the situation is complicated, and there can be many valid opinions.

            Being unable to accept that the other side in a debate may have a few valid points of their own makes adult discussion impossible.

            I'm aware propaganda exists. Assange isn't above using it himself. It's a fact of life. There may be some of it on here, but I severely doubt the US government gives a damn what gets posted on the forums of The Register.

            1. nexsphil

              Re: Grow up

              I'm afraid "grow up" doesn't constitute a rational argument, unfortunately. It just makes you look, ironically, rather childish.

              1. I ain't Spartacus Gold badge

                Re: Grow up

                nexsphil,

                I gave a rational argument. I stated that just because someone holds a different opinion to yourself, this does not necessarily make them a shill.

                Further, an acceptance that the other side in a debate may have some valid points and honest motivation is a prerequisite for rational, adult, discussion. As well as being basic good manners.

                This requires a certain amount of empathy, as well as an acceptance of one's own fallibility. Plus a mature understanding that most issues are more complex than a simplistic right vs wrong. Admittedly this seems to all be beyond the capacity of people such as Ed Balls, but that's no excuse for you...

                1. nexsphil

                  Re: Grow up

                  No, you demonstrated that you're interested in name-calling rather than reasoning. That'll have to do though. The despicable wanton cowardice on this board is making me sick.

                  1. I ain't Spartacus Gold badge

                    Re: Grow up

                    nexsphil,

                    Let's try this discussion a different way... And then the whole thing can end with peace, love and as close to universal happiness as we're likely to achieve.

                    Can you accept that some people disagree with you about Assange? Further, are you willing to accept that some of those people genuinely hold those opinions, and are not shills, spooks, paid PRs or any other kinds of nefarious actors?

                  2. Scorchio!!

                    Re: Grow up

                    Cowardice? What do you think is scaring them then, Neo? Your response is of the "it's my party and I'll cry if I want to" variety. It is the behaviour of a brat.

    5. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: You've been decoyed!

      "Assange is a public benefactor, and we should not allow that fact to be hidden or confused."

      Nor allow that, or his access to expensive lawyers and world media to influence a separate legal point.

      Or are rape suspects allowed off-the-hook and get to avoid even questioning on the basis of past good deeds, now?

      That's not the way that any legal system should work.

      [If it is, I'm owed at least a couple of murders...]

  3. Natalie Gritpants

    Reminds me of the Visa commercial

    *) Providing leaks to make Julian famous - almost free

    *) Arranging parties and groupies - £1000's

    *) Bail for Julian - £200,000

    *) Gettng Julian to hide in Equador forever - priceless

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Reminds me of the Visa commercial

      I assume that mastercard then sued visa for copyright infringement for copying their adverts!

  4. Hans 1
    Big Brother

    Fishy, indeed ...

    Read the timeline:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-11949341

    Not sure rape was committed - I guess if a woman dropped the rape case, it is highly likely that no "rape" ever took place. I mean, women are very cautious regarding rape cases. The fact that another woman grabs the case and re-opens it has one of two possible reasons:

    1. she is a feminist extremist

    2. she was asked to

    I do not quite know why but I put my penny on 2.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Fishy, indeed ...

      And you wonder why we've got a problem with sexism in IT.

      She's shouting rape, so a feminist extremist and/or being made to by someone more powerful than her.

      No other possible reason, such as: Someone else came forward accusing the same thing, which persuaded her that there is a better chance of getting the scumbag. This is quite common in the UK, the mindset that "I it's just me I may be mistaken, or there's no chance of getting a successful prosecution", which often changes into "If he's done it to others, I'm going to make sure he can't again."

      Don't underestimate how much courage it takes to stand up and say "That was the man that did it to me", when you know every bit of your behavior good/bad/relevant or irrelevant is going to be played out in public.

  5. The Jase

    Assange needs to man up. This will never go away, he needs to resolve this rather than keep trying to run away.

    1. nexsphil

      man up?

      "Man up" by handing himself over to US lapdogs and soon after "committing suicide"? That doesn't seem like a very manly thing to do.

      It's Sweden that needs to "man up". Many people including myself have been absolutely disgusted by their craven, complicit actions in this matter.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Facepalm

        Re: man up?

        "Man up" by handing himself over to US lapdogs and soon after "committing suicide"?"

        You really, really believe that would happen? That there wouldn't be a worldwide public outcry and that no-one would notice if it happened? You think no-one would be watching out for his welfare?

        If he went to Sweden and the next he was on a plan to the US then there would be uproar. If he suddenly died then it would be even more so...

        However, we'll never find out as he's currently "on the run", hiding in embassies now and letting down his bail-bond friends.

        I agree with Jemima Khan and her comment on Twitter;

        "Yes. I had expected him to face the allegations. I am as surprised as anyone by this."

        Perhaps he should face his accusers in a legal court over in Sweden.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: man up?

          "If he went to Sweden and the next he was on a plan [sic] to the US then there would be uproar. If he suddenly died then it would be even more so..."

          No, there wouldn't. Not even a little bit. Judging by this discussion, half the posters here would cheer, and we are supposed to be a relatively sensible and well-informed bunch.

          Have you any idea how many people have suddenly disappeared and wound up tortured, dead, or not all? And how much "outcry" there was?

          Sorry to post the famous Goering quote yet again, but maybe some people here haven't seen it. It's extremely relevant (especially the bit at the end about "denouncing the pacifists").

          =============>

          We got around to the subject of war again and I said that, contrary to his attitude, I did not think that the common people are very thankful for leaders who bring them war and destruction.

          "Why, of course, the people don't want war," Goering shrugged. "Why would some poor slob on a farm want to risk his life in a war when the best that he can get out of it is to come back to his farm in one piece. Naturally, the common people don't want war; neither in Russia nor in England nor in America, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy or a fascist dictatorship or a Parliament or a Communist dictatorship."

          "There is one difference," I pointed out. "In a democracy the people have some say in the matter through their elected representatives, and in the United States only Congress can declare wars."

          "Oh, that is all well and good, but, voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country."

          - Conversation with Hermann Goering in prison, reported by Gustave Gilbert

  6. JimmyPage Silver badge

    No one has mentioned

    that under the extradition terms between Sweden and the UK, Assange could not be subsequently extradited to the US without the UKs permission.

    Now whether we give it or not would be another matter. But it's not *that* simple.

    I'm genuinely curious as to why people imagine the US has some raging hard-on to have Assange sully their legal system anyway. If they really did, why haven't they already applied to extadite him from the UK ? After all, it's not like we'd say no to that either.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: No one has mentioned

      And, from what I seem to remember being explained when all this started, it would be a lot easier for the US to extradite him from here than from Sweded. Due to the UK/US extradition treaty the US would just need to tell the UK that they wanted to charge him and he could be extradited while in Sweden a more "traditional" extradition treaty would require the US to prove to a Swedish court that there was a valid case for him to answer.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: No one has mentioned

      @Jimmy, it's been mentioned again and again and again, people who think Assange is a hero, won't listen to anything which calls this into question. I know that I've pretty much given up, some of the conspiracy theories are up there with "we never went to the moon" in terms of plausibility.

    3. Thorne

      Re: No one has mentioned

      "I'm genuinely curious as to why people imagine the US has some raging hard-on to have Assange sully their legal system anyway"

      Who said it would sully their legal system? Odds are it'll be a black bag over the head and then the next umpteen years in GitMo held without charge like other foreign nationals ended up after the last Gulf war. His Cuban holiday will involve water and boards but no beaches.

  7. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Why didn't he?

    Just pop in and see his friends in the Russian embassy? He's been a loyal contributor to the Putin-friendly RT channel for some time now, you'd think they'd owe him a favour for all his fawning west-bashing interviews.

    1. That Steve Guy

      Re: Why didn't he?

      The last thing the Russian authorities will want is a bloke who is reknowned for exposing dirty secrets running around their country, especially not with Putin trying to tighten his grip on power.

  8. Anonymous John

    How does this help him?

    He's only untouchable while in the embassy. Short of shipping him out in a diplomatic bag, can't he be detained on the way to the airport? He surely can't claim diplomatic immunity..

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: How does this help him?

      A diplomatic bag isn't literally a bag, it can contain pretty much whatever the embassy want it to contain.

      The thing is that if Assange does flee he will have pretty much shot the reputation of Wikileaks, it's tied to him, staff have already left wikileaks and I don't doubt more will leave. He's also left those who paid his bail bond high and dry. There will only be a real hardcore of supporters who subscribe to the more outlandish conspiracies who'll still stand by him.

      1. Scorchio!!

        Re: How does this help him?

        "A diplomatic bag isn't literally a bag, it can contain pretty much whatever the embassy want it to contain."

        However, it is possible to delay the departure of a diplomatic bag. Imagine how long it would be before the 'bag'/crate could be opened in secure premises if, for example, there happened to be a major terrorist scare in Knightsbridge? These things take hours to clear, and the traffic, the people, the noise.... ....to say nothing of the need to urgently search all vehicles in the immediate vicinity of said scare, using armed politzei.

      2. Anonymous John

        Re: A diplomatic bag isn't literally a bag

        I know, and it wasn't a serious suggestion. If he popped up in Ecuador after being smuggled out, it would cause a diplomatic incident. I really can't see the Embassy doing it.

  9. Mad Mike

    What's going on in his head.

    Assange's behaviour is, on the face of it, getting more and more bizarre.

    Let's look at the options now.

    Go back to Sweden, answer questioning and potentially be prosecuted and fined a few thousand at worst. On the face of it, the logical thing to do. Fine shouldn't be an issue and frankly, most people think the law being used is really rather odd and is certainly (as far as I know), unique to Sweden. A woman being able to retrospectively withdraw consent because he refuses to take a test after an accident (condom broke) is weird. Morally, maybe he should do it, but is it really a crime? Using the term 'rape' as many people do, is certainly nothing more than smear and bigging the crime up enormously. This is the obvious thing to do and is not dangerous in any real way to Assange, so why wouldn't you do it? Even if technically guilty of the crime, you're not looking at any serious punishment and therefore trying to avoid it is massively OTT.

    Second option. Assange is not just weird, but bonkers. He is either insane or has some serious mental issues. Now, interestingly, not only might this explain his behaviour, but it would also render him immune from prosecution and probably extradition. Most legal systems treat people with serious medical issues (including mental impairment) quite different to people of sound mind. This can include not prosecuting and sending them to hospital rather than prison for instance. In a case as trivial as this, with a minor fine as a penalty, non-prosecution would be the obvious route. Extradition agreements also often have a clause about the parties state of health and this can prevent extradition. If already mentally impaired, it could be argued the extradition would be dangerous to his health and this would normally stop it.

    Third option. Assange is actually right and there is a conspiracy against him, he faces mortal danger etc.etc. In this option, of course Assange would flee. He's effectively trying to escape prosecution and is in essence, a refugee.

    So, we know it's not option 1 as he hasn't done that. So, is it option 2 or 3? Either way, he's either right about being perscuted etc., which means we should help him, or he's certifably bonkers, in which case we should help him!! Neither option 2 or 3 would have him turn himself in and neither would suggest a prosecution is in anybodies best interests.

  10. Barracoder
    Holmes

    There's a reason for stereotypes

    Let me get this straight. An Australian travelling in Europe shags some Swedish birds who get angry when they find out about each other and gang up on him, runs away to London and crashes at his mate's girlfriend's pal's house for a while. After a while, he gets into a bit of trouble, borrows some cash from his pals and then disappears, only to resurface in Ecuador, with a tan?

    Well, I definitely didn't see that coming.

  11. SwedishCodeMaffia
    FAIL

    Assange is muppet

    Everything would be hunky dory had he just showed up to the hearing. He'd been out of the police station within the hour, the charges would have been dropped within days and he'd been free to continue his work. Extradition from Sweden to the US? Asylum in Ecuador?? Come on.

  12. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    He's a dead duck

    There is no place that Assange can hide if the authorities want to find him bad enough - and they should.

  13. Alan Brown Silver badge

    if the USA wanted

    Julian in Gitmo, he'd already be there. Numerous cases exist of people being lifted off the streets across europe and sent there.

    They want a show trial. Assange wants to milk the publicity machine for all it's worth - and he's damaging the hell out of Wikileaks while he's doing it.

    1. h4rm0ny

      Re: if the USA wanted

      "Julian in Gitmo, he'd already be there. Numerous cases exist of people being lifted off the streets across europe and sent there."

      There are. But I can't think of any where the victim was already heavily known and present in the mainstream media. That makes a difference to whether the US will snatch and grab. A big difference.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: if the USA wanted

      "...he's damaging the hell out of Wikileaks while he's doing it."

      Not really. Sane, reasonable people do not judge a person's important actions by his personality or private life. The concrete and valuable achievements of Wikileaks and Assange are not devalued in the slightest by this ridiculous charade - which, mind you, was only necessitated by the artifically orchestrated witch hunt against him.

      As I pointed out earlier, some people have every reason to "poison the well" by attacking Assange's moral character; that is precisely because they can't frustrate what he has done, and stop him from doing more of it, in any other way.

      By the way, many comments in this thread have stated that Assange could not be extradited to the USA, or that if he was he would inevitably "enter the justice system" and face a regular court trial with proper safeguards. It is worth noting that in May 2010, former House of Representatives Speaker Newt Gingrich went on record as saying: "Information terrorism, which leads to people getting killed, is terrorism, and Julian Assange is engaged in terrorism. He should be treated as an enemy combatant."

      That, of course, means that he would have no legal rights at all. Check it out:

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enemy_combatant

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